Mets Chat Room: Coming home edition.
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- August
- 5
The reeling Mets, I know, they could just as easily be “reeking Mets,’’ are home tonight against San Diego.
Mike Pelfrey will attempt to bounce back from his worst start in almost six weeks. And, they’ll do it tonight with Aaron Heilman as their closer. I know a lot of you are down on Billy Wagner, but he’ll be missed.
Sure, Wagner can be scary, but hasn’t Heilman been the same? These next two weeks will be very important.
This entry was posted
on Tuesday, August 5th, 2008 at 6:31 pm by John Delcos.
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Well here it is a new week hopefully a new outcome. The road was about as bad as it could get. However, they are back home and can hopefully turn things around with fresh new faces all over the roster.
Welcome to Shea Dan Murphy.
Nice play by Murphy. Not bad for an infielder.-JD
i understand the reasoning behind the platoon, but so far Murphy looks like the much better player between him and Evans (or at least the more ready of the two). at some point i would think it might behoove the Mets to see what Murphy can do vs. a few left handers.
carlos beltran has never recovered from striking out to end the ‘06 season…
Alex: I have no problem with that. It couldn’t hurt.-JD
and i’d feel better if the mets picked up brett favre and used him as a closer…there’d be a lot fewer blown saves.
One thing that irks me about the Mets is their lack of following through. A couple or three games with Carlos Beltran hitting second is not enough. Manuel said he’d bat Beltran second for a considerable time.-JD
JD,
I agree but that may have more to do with an exposed bottom of the lineup.
I agree with David, he is simply calling a spade a spade, Beltran in the 2nd hole might not be a bad idea with a little more production at the bottom, but as is, just leaves the Mets too vulnerable to be pitched to
You know once pelfrey learns to control left handed batters watch out. Already he has shown that he can be a very good major league pitcher and thats with lefties hitting over .300 against him.
christ what happened to the hitting
its kind of sad that the padres are guaranteed to win the season series…
You gotta love the fact that murphy is having the best AB’s so far. Not chasing pitches and fighting off some tough pitches.
The way the Mets are hitting that might be enough for the Pads to win.
wow, one mistake by pelfrey and that’s pretty much the ball game. a 1-5 road trip and all of a sudden things are back to normal.
That’s career HR 100 for Tatis.-JD
Thats great for tatis good milestone for him to reach after this comeback of his.
i thought i would never have to watch THIS team again…but here they are…here’s to the ‘07 mets
With one hit tonight, who closes for the Mets will be a moot point.-JD
Oh boy someone needs to hand this kid a tall glass of STFU.
david-
you dont agree?
whether i agree or not is irrelevant, i come to message boards to intelligently discuss baseball and more importantly the mets. Not to see someone publicly whine and complain.
Just when you thought the offensive woes might have been cured…ugh. These guys need to hit…if it’s not one thing it’s another. If this team is worth anything they should be sweeping and dominating a lesser opponent like this…not laying down like wounded animals.
David: Agreed on Murphy’s AB’s. Too bad no one is driving him in when he’s gotten on.
There we go big shot by tatis boy can he hit that breaking pitch.
Ha…I guess my satellite dish going out is a good luck thing. I’ve missed the last 10 min b/c the picture went out but looks like Tatis has teed off again…nice!
thanks rmk, glad someone is willing to agree that everything isnt happy-go-lucky. and i am also here to discuss baseball, and with the way the mets are playing, discussing calls for critisizm, and yes, whining. i’m not gonna get into a blog battle with you over whatever is pissing you off. (as i type this tatis hits a 3 run shot)
Keep him in the 6 hole, he likes the 6 hole
kevin- i assume youre talking about tatis
would you like him in the 4-hole with beltran in the 6-hole?
Kevin,
doesnt matter what spot he’s in, i’ve never seen anyone crush breaking ball after breaking ball like Tatis has been doing lately. He just does not let a pitcher get away with hanging anything.
Oh come on Pelfrey…stop being a Met pitcher and actually hold the freakin lead. Gees…you were doing so well till the last inning!!!!!
yea but with the way he’s been hitting, i’d rather have him right behind guys like wright and reyes who get on more consistantly than delgado and beltran
The maddening thing is a lot of the hits he’s given up were weak grounders that found holes. But these stupid walks are and this inability to suddenly throw strikes is pathetic…come on! If you’re legitimately going to be a good pitcher you need to fight thru this!
There we go! Ugh…now hopefully the pen holds it
double play- the pitcher’s best friend.
and this one’s for anyone to answer i guess- whatever happened to jorge sosa,last i saw he was in houston’s minor league system, anyone miss him?
Well you gotta give credit to Pelfrey there he composed himself and threw the good strike he needed to get the grounder. His wildness might of actually helped him there because if he doesnt go 3-0 to Iguchi he’s bunting instead you get the double play.
Gary just made a good point…Manuel is just like Willie in that he has this almost dumb faith in this pathetic pen. I don’t think anyone outside their dugout really has confidence that Felficiano isn’t going to give up hit here
Good..got the out…I’ll gladly eat my words. Now who do you guys think will close it out? You think he’ll give the young rookie a shot or go with Heilman like he said?
RMK,
I’ll actually disagree with Gary on that point simply for the reason that Pelfrey struggles against left handers and that is a statistical fact. If Giles and Gonzalez werent coming up i would say leave him in but with the two big lefties coming in i see no reason to run the risk of losing the 2 run cushion.
i actually felt good about feliciano coming in because there was a load of pressure taken off due to the DP, i mean pelf was 1 pitch away from having the bases loaded w/ one out, and instead of coming into that, pedro inherited one baserunner w/ two outs.
kind of wierd for the mets to have two players who are so fresh in the bigs that they dont even have pictures on mlb.com lol
RMK,
I think it may depend whos coming up for the Padres. I know Jerry said that Heilman would be his guy because he can get lefties and righties out but the stats dont back that up as lefties are hitting over .300. With all that said i wouldnt be surprised to even see Show in the 9th.
Im telling you guys I’ve been saying it all night I really like Murphy’s approach at the plate.
Hey i didnt say anything about his base running skills !
after all my complaining this actually looks like a baseball team.
and david-
i agree that if the padres have the top of their order heavily lefty) we’ll see Show in the 9th. and call me crazy, but i dont know if that’d be such a bad thing
Matt,
To be honest with 4-5-6 coming up I’d say that the 8th is even more important than the 9th right now.
Big hit by murphy, nice play by reyes Mini Mets all over the place. Good job by Feliciano, guaranteed at least a 3 run lead going into the 9th also sets up the 7-8-9 hitters coming up for the Pads.
yea but with edgar gonzalez hitting for the pitcher in the 9 spot (and making the final out and capping off a 1-2-3 inning), the top of the order will be coming up, so who would you rather see?
o my bad i thought the pitcher was in the 9 spot…
and the bottom of the order is righty…i’d still rather see Show
Well theres the answer with Heilman warming up. I honestly have no issue with that with the righties coming up.
to steal a line from Gary Binghamton North is doing the job tonight.
there goes the save opportunity for heilman lol. nick evans earning his stripes
wow. you know, the law of averages suggest that one of these times heilman should be able to make it through an important inning without giving up a homerun. clearly, that time is not tonight however.
for the record i said my last comment before the 9th even started so i wasnt complaining^
Now, no one can second-guess Jerry when he names Kunz his closer tomorrow.
That is it…I don’t care if Heilman doesn’t give up another HIT the rest of the season I want him gone this offseason, you cannot go through streaks of giving up, not just hits, but HRs and pitch in the MLB, this guy is pathetic. This is the second year in a row of this !#@$.
I as a met fan want to see a new bull pen next year, out with the old and in with the new. I am so sick and tired watching this bull pen get shelled and blow a win opportunity almost every night, it’s past ridiculous at this point.
tiffany- if jerry would have named anyone else his closer today, he would have taken a lot o crap for it, so ultimately if the mets hang on to win this one, that moonshot would turn out to be for the best
You know that thing that sucks about Heilman is that his value was so high at one point that the mets could of gotten something nice in return for him. At this point who knows what you’d get. But i do agree he cannot be trusted in tough spots too many hanging changeups.
These guys never do anything easily.-JD
Good God Schoenweis, that was a hard hit ball.
with giles up that could have been a catastrophe. however unfortunate that ninth inning was, i was still impressed by the way this team got their $hit together (considering my onslaught of negative comments earlier) but god help us when and if we enter the ninth inning with a 1-run-lead
After too many pitchers had to be used to win this game, Howie has put it “In the Book”.
See you tomorrow – someone please tell Darling he may have to suit up.
Well I guess you’ll take it however you can get it.
BH- leave it to mlb.com “brian giles lines out SHARPLY to centerfielder Carlos Beltran”
good times in ‘08
Yeah before I close it for the night, I’ll say one last thing. Tatis was surely the hero with the two bombs but huge tack on runs driven in by Murphy and Evans. And big outing for Pelfrey. Youth is served at Shea. Good Night!
Well. It’s a win.
I wouldn’t put Kunz in yet. Can he get his feet wet first before throwing him into the fire?
Aaron was very tight. You could see it in his face. The misplay behind 2b didn’t help.
annie savoy- someone tell seaver to suit up for christ’s sake.
sorry again about the early negativity, but i will say that i had good reason. adios
and lets pray for a phillies loss
Manuel on who will close tomorrow: ``I don’t know yet.’’ Well, that’s just dandy. Manuel said walk bothered him most, and that’s why he may hesitate. He still won’t commit to Kunz with the game on the line. Manuel mentioned Joe Smith.
Fact is, if you’re not going to go with Kunz, the only logical guy is Heilman. But, if you’re going to go away from him after one bad outing, then you’re telling him you have no confidence in him.-JD
JD
You are right, but can Manuel have confidence in anyone?
Unless Kunz can just come in and be a wildman looking like the closer of the present what choice does he have?
He really is in a tough place. Heilman has real confidence issues but at this time is still probably the best choice unless you want to trust the 9th to a guy one year out of college who was in AA just a few days ago.
That is a lot of pressure to be the pitcher of last resort on a team in the hunt in the big city. If we go with him hope he just goes out there thinking this is still Oregon State.
Some of the best stories in the MLB start with a manager taking a chance and throwing a young guy or even rookie into a tough role and seeing that guy succeed. I say roll the dice with Kunz.
i really wish they went for the heilman for fuentes deal now.
Heilman’s issues go back as far as the whole season. If he removes him from that role, it’s not off of this one outing. It was a mistake to commit to him to begin with given his incompetence the last few months.
Sure if A. Reyes makes that catch on the popup like he should have then maybe that HR never happens, but honestly, who really felt confident that Heilman would get out of that without giving up a big hit? That really goes for everyone in that pen. How often have we seen Smith or Feliciano come in and look sharp and we’re all thinking “THere we go, now we have our go to guy!” and then the next time they’re out there goes another 2B or HR to blow a lead or lose the game. It’s not only Heilman…they all really suck.
I understand apprehension about handing it over to a young rookie, but again, if he wasn’t ready for this then they shouldn’t have called him up. I say give Kunz a shot.
JD: By the way, Im really curious…what is the full scouting report on Murphy’s defensive capabilities? He looks really comfortable out there for someone that’s just learning the position.
The post was very prophetic John. I’ve kind of given up on Heilman. I think last year was a fluke. His control is terrible. He can’t keep his change-up down. He just can’t do it. He’s a HR waiting to happen.
Just… designate Heilman for assignment.
Just… I don’t care, DFA Heilman.
I don’t care that there’s no one else to put in the ‘pen, I don’t care if he ends up becoming a Cy Young starter in Georgia or the Bronx.
Get rid of him, throw him out like a Brandon Knight autographed ball.
He’s Armando Benitez with the added awfulness of delusions of being a starter.
I just… I want to wash my hands of him.
Blah.
How much experience did Papelbon have when the red sox gave him the closers job in the middle of a pennant race? Kunz has been in pressure situations. Right now i dont see any other choice. Btw, Is there any news about el duque? They need all the warm bodies they can get.
Somebody posted here a day or two ago that they wanted to see a group of players including Tatis out of here. I wonder if that poster has changed his mind now.
To MattB in AZ – Better yet, let’s get Nolan Ryan. I saw him sitting in the stands in Texas last night looking as though he wanted to get in the game.
I wonder if anyone has changed their mind on Wagner. Not saying he is a world beater, but when healthy (maybe 3-4 of those blown saves were when he had arm/shoulder issues), he is the best they got.
I would not be surprised that we find out Heilman has some arm issues like he has had in the past.
As for Kunz, how many minutes after he blows one will somebody post that he should go back to AA?
Bottom line is that the BP is bad. Mets will have to hope Phils SP is worse than their BP if they are going to win this while Fish young arms get tired and run out of gas.
It’s come down to a war of attrition unfortunately.
On the positive side at least the chances of Kunz giving up HRs is unlikely (none in the minors) and Murphy actually looks like he knows what he is doing at the plate-knows the strike zone.
Maybe, just maybe, Castillo is gone after the season and this kid can play 2b. But I’m not betting on it.
Wagner is POISON. He sucks in the clutch, destroys clubhouses everywhere he goes. It doesn’t matter how many game she blew so far. HE SUCKS IN THE CLUTCH and his absence forever would be a big positive.
David: It’s Binghamton South.
Ray,
You can take that Papelbon comment a couple steps further by including Bobby Jenks and Adam Wainwright both ended up closing for World Series Winners as rookies. The point being that using a rookie in the spot is not unprecedented.
The flip side to all that is that absolutely agree with scoop when he says that it will only take a couple minutes after his blown save for someone to start posting he should be in AA…..
Yes, people would be posting telling him to go to AA, how is that any different than people saying Wagner should be released when he blows a game? The problem with blogs/comment sections during games is everyone tends to act irrational, the more pissed off they get.
Bob – Thanks – I actually never thought of it that way. People are caught up in the game. After I read your comment I went back and reread this blog and depending upon what happens is how the reaction goes.
Here is my take on the whole bullpen thing. This bullpen needs one more hard thrower in it to help everyone relax. This should be the 8th inning guy and someone to back up Wagner. I am stating the obvious, no? But that would let everyone fill a role or a niche and not be the next guy to throw 89-90 out of the pen. Maybe Kunz can be that guy after Wagner’s return.
Heilman befuddles me. I really think that it has to be confidence that is affecting his control. His velocity is there for sure. I don’t understand his insistence on using the slider. Maybe if he went back to the fastball-changeup routine he was in it would help. I really think he added the slider to show he could be a starter. Right now he’s not and he doesn’t need it.
Looks like a fight to the finish in the NL East. The only issue with the Mets is – Are they still to close to the failures of the early season to realize a losing streak is nothing more than a losing streak?
I actually feel bad for Heilman. The 4 pitch walk was inexcusable, but let’s face it, the game should have been over. Anyway, I really wish they would just let Kunz close. Like others have pointed out, it’s not unprecedented that a rookie can close for world series and world series contending teams. Plus at least he IS a closer. Give him a chance.
Heilman is beginning to get the same look on the mound that Private Pyle had in “Full Metal Jacket”...and it is definitely a cause for concern!
Which I why I don’t understand why we didn’t move him during the span of June-July where he had given up something like 2 runs over the course of his last 15 appearances. His stock would and will never be higher and the Rockies wanted him for Fuentes. I don’t know about you, but I’d much rather have Fuentes on this team than Heilman down the stretch. Fuentes repeatedly converts 1-run saves, can you imagine Heilman being thrown into that situation? Can you imagine the reaction across NY today if that game was a 1 or even 2 run game, worse a 3 run game that forced extras and we lost? Heilman would have been run out of town, instead that is delayed until he blows a save, which if it doesn’t happen against the Padres will surely come against Florida.
In brighter news, the Rockies have claimed Livan Hernandez. Hopefully they work out a deal so Omar doesn’t go down that path, although at this point, he may be a better #5 option than Pedro.
Bob: I would have liked the trade because it would have given at the time the Mets two dependable 8th inning guys in Fuentes (Left)/Sanchez (Right). But I figure the Mets thought that Heilman like he did last year, had finally turned his season around in the 2nd half. Regarding Fuentes, you also have to remember he lost the Rockies closing job last year to Corpas, so it’s not like he is always dependable.
Hes not my favorite writer, but wally over at newsday has this amazing stat in todays paper: Heilman has blown 13 of 19 save opportunities so far in his career. He cant take the pressure. I think its all in his head. He wouldnt be throwing 95 mph if it was physical.
I feel bad for Heilman too but that doesn’t mean I want him out there with the game on the line. He can’t throw where he wants to. He can’t even throw it near where he wants too. His control is terrible, especially under pressure.