About Last Night ….
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- July
- 23
There is a lot of talk about Johan Santana not going nine. Yes, I would have liked for him to have fought for that ball.
The Mets played formula baseball last night and the odds were in their favor. It just didn’t work out.
There were a lot of little things that happened that added up to a loss and Santana not going nine is a SMALL part of it.
-There were two horrible decisions by third base coach Luis Aguayo.
-They left men on base again.
-Jose Reyes blew the play at second.
They didn’t have Billy Wagner. So what?
If you are going to prioritize, start with Duaner Sanchez, who disappeared on the mound and tried to sneak away later.
His job was to get three outs before giving up three runs. He didn’t do it.
His performance after the game was weak, too.
While we were in with Manuel, he tried to slip away. We got him in the hallway. I don’t even know if he showered.
Say what you will about Wagner, but when he gives it up he takes the questions later. So does Mariano Rivera. So does any player with stones.
Not Sanchez.
He tried to slip away. He answered questions because he was caught, not because he is stand-up.
Then he says he made good pitches, but didn’t get the results. Sorry, you can’t say you make good pitches if you don’t get anybody out.
It takes a certain mentality to be a closer, and Sanchez doesn’t have it.
All losses are a team effort. But sometimes some guys contribute to defeat more than others. Sanchez was a big time contributor last night.
This entry was posted
on Wednesday, July 23rd, 2008 at 11:19 am by John Delcos.
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Win as a team, lose as a team. A bad loss. If this was late September or October, a legendary bad loss.
Harold Reynolds had some interesting comments about how the Mets' defense in the ninth wasn't playing to get three outs; i.e., they were trying to turn double plays and their outfielders were playing shallow—not exactly the approach you should be taking when you have a three-run lead and need three outs to win. Harold was so spot on about this that I just wanted to give him a hug.
As I stated before, Sanchez's stamina is not there yet. And last nite showed it as his pitches were up. That is why he spit the bit.
I can see why althletes have to maintain a good repore w/the press since you are venting your anger at Sanchez for as much of not wanting to talk to you guys as for his poor performance.
The other week when Pedro was ailing, he wanted to continue. But I have not heard the same last nite about Santana.
In a game against your division rival, tied for 1st late in July, at home, first game of a series, first yr w/a team, no closer available, the ace of the staff should want to take the ball.
Your Yankee's guy Pettite would have taken the ball I would bet if it was the Sox and Mo R was not available.
Ok while im still livid over last night, Ive calm down to the point where i can talk about it. I agree with Dan's assesment that this would be a legendary loss if it were September or October, however if this begins a tailspin it will be just as big.
With that said the big picture has to be the series and how they respond tonight. They can either mope and think of what should of been last night. Or they can get off the canvas dust themselves off and take 2 of 3 the hard way.
Scoop: You can't compare the personalities of Santana and Pedro. If that was Pedro last night, you would have had to rip the ball from his kung fu death grip he no doubt would have had on the ball. Santana was probably like…"well ok skip, whatever you say." Plus I have never heard Pedro blame anyone else but himself for any defeats.
Tiffany: Yes, Harold Reynolds was spot on last night with his analysis.
JD: How do you know that Sanchez doesn't have the mentality to close? It was his first opportunity this year. Yeah, he failed, but he could close the next 10 games out too. If anyone HAS the mentality to close it is Sanchez. He just doesn't have the fastball back yet that he probably needs. Like Scoop mentioned, you're probably more upset that Sanchez didn't want to face the media more than his performance.
JD,
I am from Alexandria, VA and I am a big Mets fan, and I check your blog regularly. You do a great job. Sometimes he seems you are a lot harder on the Mets than most, but I appreciate your honest view. For example, what you wrote about Sanchez today. That is great stuff. I know Wagner blows his fair share of saves(especially big games), but at least he seems to always be there to own up to it. I like that in a player. I just wanted to say great job. Big test for the Mets tonight. If they win tonight, it makes last night a little easier to swallow, not much, but atleast puts in position to win the series still. If they lose tonight, we probably get swept, and Philly knows they own us when it matters. Can't let that happen.
Santana is a talented guy but he's not a take charge guy. The interim manager blew it. He's the fraud who claimed he wanted to stretch his starters, but when he needed to actually do it, he comes up lame with pathetic reasons why he didn't.
You can blast Chavez for being shallow but look at the coaching staff brought in by Minaya. Minor leaguers who don't coach too win. They coach development and it shows.
Scoop: I am not angry with Sanchez. He didn't get three outs. Big deal. He said he was ready to close, and part of that is willing to answer questions. His answers are for your benfit, not mine. Bottom line, when you blow a game like that, be accountable. That's part of the job description. If you don't have the stones to stand-up, you deserve to get ripped.-JD
Although I agree that Sanchez should be there to answer questions (remember earlier this yr w/wagner complaining about this), your comment of "we got him" can be interpreted not as we got him to answer questions, but we got him to stick it to him b/c he was trying to sneak away from us (reporters). How dare he!
Bottom line is he was not good. And he was not good in my opinion b/c his shoulder is not at full strength which caused his sinker not to sink.
Everybodys looking for a scapegoat here. Dont blame Santana. He did his job. I am sick of this nonsense that he should have refused to obey his manager and not let the bullpen take the ball in the ninth because thats what Petitte would have done. I dont remember that ever happening, and please dont bring up Bob Gibson or any old school pitchers. Manuel last night said Santana is on a 100 pitch count. If thats true then its on upper management. But Manuel should have picked someone besides Sanchez there. He is coming off an injury and pitched 2 innings sunday. They mentioned on the fan that he failed badly as a closer when LA Gave him a shot. Santana must be wondering what he has to do to get a break from the fans and the press here. He goes 8 innings and gives up 2 runs to one of the best offenses in the league. He leaves the mound with a smile on his face, knowing he did a good job, then his teammates blow it for him in the 9th and he gets the blame. Thats BS. Instead of being glad the Mets have acquired a great pitcher, too many so called mets fans cant wait to jump on this guy because he makes a lot of money. The media needs controversy to sell papers, and Aguayos not gonna sell any papers and neither is Sanchez, so they go after the big name, and too many people follow thier lead like sheep.
hey john maybe the gm will get a set of a stones and get us a corner of instead of spewing all this crap abpout in house guys.. if you are not making a trade then play martiniz and tell the fans deal with the kid let him grow because he is better than what was out there.. just dont insult the fans and tell us the tatis chavez and andersons of the world are better than what you can get.. make a signiture trade for once that does not involve money cashen got carter and hernandez and phillips got piazza.. just do something …
Jon, you shouldn't be blaming Reyes here…Yes, he did blow the out, but ultimately, it wouldnt have had an effect, because the Phills strung together a few more hits without making anymore outs. The only chance Reyes had to short circuit the rally was to get that double play, and it obviously didn't work out. Getting the single out wouldn't have made a difference.
Ray: He should have started the 9th inning. If Wagner was available it would have been a different story. Look, Manuel took the hit for him not starting the 9th, so i'll continue to blame Manuel for it. But another point that Harold Reynolds made was sometimes when you throw 100 pitches, you really labor and throw. Some 100 pitch outings are smooth and easy, which certainly describes Santana's performance last night. There is no reason for him not to have come out there.
Ravi: I don't think Delcos is blaming Reyes for the game. It was just one part of the ninth inning that wasn't executed properly.
It reminds me of one of my favorite quotes by John McVay, then coach of the winless Tampa Bay Bucs:
Reporter: John, how did you feel about your team's execution today?
John McVay: I'm all for it.
:-)
Wow, I think you are stretching in your constant effort to scapegoat Reyes. He made an aggressive play to attempt to get the tying run from reaching second, he got burned. Not as if he booted the ball or threw it away, he just got beat to the bag on a slow roller.
As for Sanchez, yes he blew a save, but give it a rest. "We got em in the hallway." Who exactly do you think you are the league of justice for fans?
I felt crappy about last nights game until reading this twisted piece. "we got em in the hallway."
It's just a baseball game, did your questions shed any light on the facts that were obvious to anyone watching?
Pretty sad window into the ever twisted souls of the New York Sports beat writer.
Here's the formula i have seen and the Mets have yet to prove me wrong.
Every time a pitcher is taken out after completing the 8th regardless of a stellar performance. we lose.
Its that damned pitch count. it doesnt add up.
I have said it before, why should any pitcher work hard if he knows he'll be taken out after 100 , give or take 10, regardless of performance.
Otherwise , it was good baseball. just bad luck. :-\
There's tonight to even it back up and then the rubber match. we can still win this..
Lets Go mets Go!
To me the obvious problem last night was the same problem why the mets collapsed last year. That problem is the bull pen and the bull pen without Billy wagner. If your bull pen can't get three outs with a three run lead than your not going anywhere. I truly hope tonight and tomorrow's game gets rained out. This way the mets can make it up later in the schedule and also to rest Billy Wagner's arm.
Patrick: If you don't think Reyes didn't play a big part in the loss last night, may I suggest you check out www.getaclue.com. I don't get all you apologists for this guy. He made a bad play and it HELPED cost them the game.-JD
Reyes' play, while costly, really had little to do with the outcome. Taguchi's double still would've tied the game, and Rollins' double would've still given the Phillies the lead…
Feliciano's performance deserves to be mentioned… Sanchez and Smith combined to give up a run and leave the bases loaded, but at that point, the Mets were still winning. But then Feliciano comes in and completely sh-ts the bed.. Why does Manuel keep trusting this moron? Either he walks the lefty on 4 pitches or he gives up a hit to the righty, he's useless…
Oh, and anyone blaming this on Santana, I also recommend you check out GETACLUE.COM…. Santana deserves NO blame for what happened last night, period.. Good teams should be able to record 3 outs while giving up less than 3 runs….
Tom G: NO! The best thing would be to play tonight and win! (After all I am going tonight!)
Steve (The Original) July 23rd, 2008 at 3:27 pm
"Tom G: NO! The best thing would be to play tonight and win! (After all I am going tonight!)"
I suggest you wear a rain coat and rubber boots and if possible a Kayak with oars obviously. Oh yea, umbrella can't hurt either.
Newsday reported that Wilpon finally admitted to making a mistake on the way that Willie was fired. http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/mets/ny-spwilpon0724,0,3145982.story
John, I clicked on that link, and ironically I ended up at your blog again.
JD – love the blog, but in this edition it is plain to me that you just flat out hate the Mets….
and please don't talk about you are just doing your job….the way you typically write is with just plain disdain for this franchise….just one man's opinion, however!
And by the way, if you took the time to read what I wrote without being on your superior high horse you will find that no one was excusing Reyes play, but are you going to actually argue attempting to cut off the tying run from reaching second base was ill advised? On a slow roller where he lost by a step?
The absolute best case scenario in that situation if he went to first is that somehow that changes the cosmic function of the universe and Feliciano does proceed to get shelled. The slightly reasonable scenario is the Mets escape the inning down by one, perhaps tied.
Patrick – very well put!
Patrick: Of course. You come here and you'll get the answers. At least that's the view from the high horse. Cheers. Always like reading you.-JD
I love sportswriters who drop snarky stuff like "getaclue.com" to posters on their blog.
You stay assy John.
that is not a typo by the way.
"but are you going to actually argue attempting to cut off the tying run from reaching second base was ill advised? On a slow roller where he lost by a step?"
Of course he is, because he takes every opportunity to bash Jose.
John stated that Reyes should be benched in the middle of a hot streak so he does not "lose focus".
It is a pattern with John. And it stinks to high heaven.
Ed: Of course not. And your pattern is you misinterpret most of what you read here. BTW: Reyes said he made a mistake and Manuel said he made a mistake. Reyes still loses focus too much, and you, it seems, aren't in focus at all. Staying assy just for you Ed.-JD
Chili: Don't hate the Mets. Never have. But, I'm not going to cheer on the dugout to prove otherwise.-JD
I don't think you hate the Mets…I just think you miss the Yankee beat and all that went with it. My perception is that this beat is slumming to you and that the disappointment, at times, bleeds through your work. And those times are a real disservice to your readers.
Tiffany: Thanks Dr. for the exam. You couldn't be more wrong. I don't miss the Yankees, and after three years actually prefer the Mets beat. I'm certainly not slumming. Sorry, wrong. Some of you think I hate the Mets because I don't bleed orange and blue and think I stink. Some of you like what I do. It's about even, which to me tells me I'm fair and doing my job. As far as loving the Yankees, the truth is I've always liked the Red Sox more.-JD
Can't wait to read your review of Mary-Ann's book – the first page opening paragraph is a gem.
JD – you are not fair when you use words like "no stones" and "get a clue." Patrick was correct….you feel that somehow if someone does X, then Y will happen. And that's just not how baseball works…again, you clearly have disdain for your current work and it shows with the language you use
P.S….I still read it and I appreciate the avenue to vent my feelings!
Trust me—when I give you an exam, you'll know it.
Tiffany: Oh boy, something to look forward to.-JD
Chili: You vent all you want, that's what I'm here for. I will concede sometimes I think X plus Y equals Z. And, I know it doesn't always work that way. Sometimes I can write with an edge, but that's because some of you guys strike nerves and drive me nuts. Take that as a compliment, because unlike a lot of other bloggers, I read what you guys write. However, I will never accept I have disdain for my work. This is what I want to do.-JD
Better hope I don't share that comment with your editor.
Santana – my feeling is that he should have demanded the ball. That is what an ace does. If the manager says no fine, but ya gotta say you want it. Pitched a good game tho, but still all the pitch counts, lack of going long, etc. Something is missing from one of the best in the game.
Reyes – Yet another mental error. Baseball is as much anticipation as it is physical. He double clutched and he should be better than that. Too many times this year he has played sub par in the field. Maybe it was his manager letting him slide too much, but his fielding this year is sub par.
Sanchez – I will give him a pass on the field. He has been pitching well this year. My issue is if he is sneaking out rather than standing there and facing the music, he needs to man up. Wasn't there an issue with him last yeaar? I forgot what it was but he did some dumb thing or other.
Pen – They blew it. One inning should end better than that.
3rd base coach – terrible decision. Not the first time. Can they send him down and get someone else?
One more thing.
Our very own JD. I know he is not a homer. But he says what he thinks and does not shy from criticizing the team. Much like Keith and Ron on tv.
As for the posters, I have noticed JD is more ready to respond to those who criticize him. In the past few years he has bit his tongue.