It’s been a long time since Johan Santana won a game, and most of that falls on the offense. Things have changed and if he pitches as he has the last six times out (that is if the rain doesn’t bag this) he could pitch the Mets within a half-game of first place.
They go for five straight tonight, but we know how things have been all year with this team. I have a sense something is different, but I’ve said that, too. What we do know is the season is far from over, and the team I picked to win the NL East has as good a shot as any.
63 Comments
When is the last time they won 5 in a row?
JD,
If you do not have an iPhone, I will tell you that weather.com shows rain over Shea, but once it clears there should not be too much trouble. The doppler shows only possible intermittant rain the rest of the way.
JohnM: April 15-19 of this year.-JD
Before the game the Mets put Tony Armas on the DL (abdominal strain) and recalled Carlos Muniz.-JD
Tiffany: Have been hit-and-miss on that. Today is Game #91.-JD
John – A few days ago I wrote and asked if you could post the starting lineups of both teams, not just the Mets. Perhaps you missed that post, so I’m asking again.
Thanks.
Is anyone else going out of their minds listening to Gary, Keith and Ron talk about starters innings?
What is their point? They are really stupid.
Does anyone really think that baseball teams are employing a losing strategy by taking their pitchers out before they get tired and hurt?
Yes, in the past teams recklessly overused their pitchers and ended many careers long before their time. We know.
ITS CALLED PROGRESS.
No Gary, what offenses are trying to do are to draw more walks so as to get more baserunners in the hope that those baserunners will come around to score. Its a good strategy. Like all strategies sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn’t but its not really so much about trying to get the starter out of the game as it is about drawing walks.
I think this guy gets it. Pitchers don’t pitch as deep into games because its too hard to do. The pitchers aren’t suddenly weak and easily tired. They have to pitch harder more often.
Blazing speed!!!
Pitcher must be getting tired. Castro baby!!! I do like the 3-run HR.
Taylor, I thought it was a fascinating and interesting discussion.
Did you see Sanatana’s reaction to that popup, which made it an official game? He was very happy lol.
Wasn’t Koufax washed up after like 5 good years?
Taylor
As BH stated the discussion on the evolution of pitching is interesting. The part when they were talking about what Reghetti said about coaching today’s pitchers.
Reghetti said he had to completely forget about the era he pitched in because pitching today is completely different.
Koufax was not washed up he quit because of a bad elbow.
No Tommy John surgery in 1966.
BH, I agree that its an interesting topic. What drives me nuts is the subtext of ‘back in my day pichers weren’t babied. We didn’t have this pitch count nonsense’. They’ve actually started to realize that there are good reasons why pitchers don’t pitch deep into games as much as they used to. This is progress in the thinking of Gary, Keith and Ron to match the progress in pitcher usage.
They still resist the obvious explanations. For one its good strategy to take out a pitcher if he is tired and not throwing as hard as he was. Especially if you have good relief pitchers to bring in. You will win more games AND prevent injuries to your starters if you don’t pitch them so deep into games.
Scott, my point exactly. If he hadn’t thrown so many innings he probably wouldn’t have needed to retire. That’s what I meant by washed up. He was unable to pitch anymore.
Taylor – I’m surprised at your remark about Sandy Koufax. What made you think he left because he was washed up?
I meant ‘washed up’ in that he was not able to pitch anymore because he was abused by pitching 300+ innings for several straight years.
That was a short rain delay. Is Johan really coming out?
More of the ‘back in my day’ stuff from Keith. Ahh but he wouldn’t be the same Keith without it.
Soriano is out of the all star game and I’m sure everyone will agree he should be replaced by reyes.
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080709&content_id=3100983&vkey=allstar2008&fext=.jsp
Taylor – Did you ever see Koufax pitch?
Koufax was diagnosed with traumatic arthritis in 1964. He pitched two years after in great pain with his elbow swelling up after each start. Pitching 300” innings a year certainly accelerated the damage.
One of the highlights of my youth was when the Mets beat him in 1965 for the first time. The starter and winning was a rookie named Tug McGraw.
hey John could you find out if there was a more sinister reason Johan left the game, because 40 minutes really isn’t that long.
Ben: That will be one of the first questions of Manuel.-JD
Annie – Only on film. Why?
I saw Koufax pitch once. The Mets beat him 10-4. I think it was 1966. I sat in the upper deck in left, near where Tommie Agee hit his home run. I had a chance to meet Koufax in spring training. I told him my dad said I had to see you pitch. When I told him about the game he said he remembered.-JD
Cool story. Arthritis is an auto-immune disorder so who knows what the innings meant. But if it was concentrated in his pitching elbow maybe it was the innings. ????
Taylor –
Because I agree with Ron, Gary and Keith that baseball has seen better days than now.
It has become nothing but a ‘brand’ and a business. All the joy and skill in playing the game is gone and everything is measured by the bottom line.
If you never saw Koufax, Drysdale, Gibson, Spahn, Marichal, Carlson, Ford, etc. etc. you’ve missed seeing a real pitcher.
As Keith would say, that’s just the way it is.
When did you start following the game?
Nice night for Delgado. I am hoping that the Mets plate him from second for a little insurance.
Sandy Koufax was an absolute warrior in the last years of his career. To this day, he can’t straighten his left arm because of the trauma he put it through. “Koufax” and “washed up” should never appear in the same sentence.
Good hit for A. Reyes. Nice to see a rookie making the most of his time in the majors. I really like his hustle.
John – I met Koufax once myself when I walked 18 holes of the Greater Hartford Open with him during the Pro
Am at the Wethersfield CC. He played left handed, not too well, but was a real charmer and I enjoyed meeting him very much. We didn’t talk pitching, we talked golf.
John how is Chris Russo doing up there?
I’m too young to have seen the likes of Koufax and his contemporaries but I think that Pedro Martinez was the most dominant pitcher ever. When he was in his prime albeit a kinda short prime no one was ever as good as he was. He posted a .7 whip in 2000 smak dab in the middle of the steroid era and in fenway park…thats disgustingly amazing.
In case you were wondering, if this stands it will be the first times since Sept. 6-7, 2006, that the Mets had back-to-back shutouts.-JD
I’ve followed the game since I was old enough to. I was born in 1971. My dad started taking me to Met and Yankee games when I was very young. I don’t really remember exactly when. Of course when I was that young I didn’t know anything except for who the star players were. Probably 1977 or somewhere in there. I really started following closely in the 80’s when I was old enough to read The Sporting News.
Anyway I don’t buy it. There was an article on Life magazine in the 50s written by Ty Cobb. It was the same thing. All about how the game has changed and its not as good and the players aren’t as tough etc…. The retired ballplayers have been saying that since there were retired ballplayers to say it. There’s not an ounce of evidence for it and plenty against it.
In track and field and other sports where the players play agains the clock or the tape measure in addition to each other progress has been consistent and unabating. The same it true in baseball, with or without steroids.
Howie has put this game “in the books” and it was a good one. Very few Giants were seen on the basepaths. Don’t forget, tomorrow is a day game.
Great game all around for the Mets. Santana getting a short night and a victory makes it even sweeter. It is also really nice to see the team more animated. I know, winning will do that for you.
Annie
Pedro in his prime was as good as anyone.
Also Doc till he wrecked his career was also that good.
I remember sitting in the Mezzanine in 85 and watching his curveball break. It was amazing even that high up.
How could you leave Seaver off the list.
Also the game has always been about money.
If Comisky had paid his players they would not have been tempted to throw the WS
Nice ballgame.
Also Randy Johson, Roger Clemens and Greg Maddux are up there but I agree, Pedro Martinez’ peak was the best of all-time. Don’t forget that Koufax put up his numbers in a pitcher’s park in a pitcher’s era. Pedro didn’t.
Let’s also not forget Bob Gibson. A 1.12 ERA for an entire year of over 200 innings pitched is surreal and has not been eqaulled since. Tom “The Franchise” Seaver I agree should also be named. My favorite memories were the Seaver Gibson head to head games.
Are you all sitting down? Moises Alou left his rehab game tonight with cramping in his left hamstring. He’ll get a MRI tomorrow in NY. You really can’t make this stuff up.-JD
Gibson had that great year in 68. In 69 they lowered the mound.
The thing I always found hard to believe is in 71
which could be called Seavers best year (unless you think 69 was better ) he had a 1.76 era and set the NL record at that time with 289 K’s for a RH pitcher but he did not win the CY Young.
On Alou I think it time to turn the page. Better yet just rip the damm page out of the book.
Is Alou’s middle name Pavano?
No, Pavano’s middle name is Alou.
You don’t have to make it up. Alou’s daily happenings read like a script. Unfortunately, Omar was too lazy to ever read it.
Why do we need Alou when our young players like Easley and Tatis are doing so well?