Mets Chat Room: Game #1 at Philly
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- July
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The Mets are 4 1/2 games out of first place. By the end of the weekend, they could either be 8 1/2 back or a half game. It likely won’t be either, but a split doesn’t help them as far as the standings go.
The Mets have been good in the past at focusing on the task at hand (I’m not saying this year). But, last night was the case in St. Louis. It begins with Johan Santana tonight. I can’t help but thinking the players believe Santana was supposed to be the missing piece and it is frustrating they haven’t won for him in a month.
Santana has to be frustrated, too. He’s only human.
This entry was posted
on Friday, July 4th, 2008 at 6:29 pm by John Delcos.
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Hey Sadecki and CLM,
Do you think that a good team with a runner on third and less than one out can get the run in, jeez. Also with the ace on the mound and supposedly the best in baseball getting paid the highest in baseball is asking allot to pitch like one. I don't want to hear you two cry how met fans are negative and how we only blog when they lose. With a 140 mil payroll in NY we expect to win, period, if you don't like what people say on this blog than take a hike brothers.
How about a cup of tea tomg?
Excellent coverage of the Hernandez/Reyes event on this site.
Is anybody really surprised about what happened with Reyes and Keith Hernandez? The Mets have long let Reyes skate for his behavior. Hernandez called it as he saw it, and that's how I wrote it at the time – Reyes behaved like a child.
What's to cover ``Willie's fault?'' Reyes behaves like a brat and the Mets put up with it, and whenever somebody calls him out on it, they roast the messenger. I've long called for the Mets to give Reyes an attitude adjustment, but they won't.
Fact is, Willie wanted to more than once, but Omar and ownership tied his hands. We're going to keep hearing about Reyes having little tiffs, about losing focus, until the Mets grow the stones to tell him to grow up.-JD
Now that I checked out the story on Hernandez / Reyes.
Here is what I have to say.
If Reyes does not like what Keith has to say about him then he should grow up. Keith only said what JD has been saying here all season.
I know we should not say bad things here but Bart Hubbuch's newspaper stories many times tend to read more like they belong on a blog then in a major newspaper.
It ain't Willie's fault July 4th, 2008 at 7:25 pm
How about a cup of tea tomg?
What does that mean. What exactly are you getting at It ain't Willie's fault !!!!
The Mets facing a unknown pitcher and getting shutout, same MO, same channel, same station, same result.
Also very low blow on Hubbuch's part to cite a 6 year old story that Kieth wrote for msg.
Who cares what hernadez said, reyes said, hernadez thinks, reyes thinks, can the mets beat the phillies, that is what is most importnat here, nothing else, just win baby.
They beat an unknown guy last night and the Mets have actually seen this unknown guy before.
Mets beat him up pretty good last year.
The fans are this blog have there priorities all wrong. People worrying about what other people say. Bloggers complaining that other blogger are to negative and never blog when the mets win. Maybe if the Mets started to win and play like a 140 mil dollar payroll team should play like these things wouldn't happen.
Here we go, let's burry the phils right here right now, Lets go mets!!!!!
By the way, if the Braves can send Francoeur to the minors because he's not hitting, then the Mets can bench Reyes for a game or two. There's the difference in the two franchises.-JD
the over/under on runs they score this inning?-JD
Santana swinging at balls over his head, he should have walk on that at bat. Mets, please get your head in the game, please.
finally Mets break through
Mets should have scored allot more than one run here. This is unacceptable in my books, sorry Sadecki and CLM. My expectations are allot higher than yours obviously. By the way
where are these two great met fans that have the nerve to come on this blog and rip other met fans.
thats two
OK, david with a good at bat working a walk and a rbi but we need the big hit here, common Beltran. I'll admit, I have no confidence in Beltran getting a big hit here but there always is a first time.
tomg I have no problem with you being critical but please stop making a big deal about how much money the Mets are spending.
All winter long all people posted here was that the Mets are cheap ( Freddy Coupons ). Now they spend money and you are not happy. It is not possible to have it both ways.
They needed more than two that inning. Better than nothing, but still, that was weak.-JD
Beltran swings at a pitch that was ball four, what else is new!!!!
Scott from Pelham,
sorry man but I wasn't one of those people complaining the mets weren't spending. i can't take the responsibility for those fans, sorry bro.
As usual and I've been consistent with my criticism with beltran, he never comes through the big at bat, he is not a clutch hitter when it comes down to a clutch situation, it is what it is and it ain't much.
The blog master and the princess said I was too nasty so I asked you if you wanted to have some tea because it seemed they would like that better. It seems you have to be very polite to post here. I think this is a tea party site vice a baseball site. I'm gone.
It ain't Willie's fault,
ok, just asking, don't get all girly on me man. I was was asking what you meant.
If the Mets do lose, Beltrans ab will be the turning point.
The Phils bring in a righty turning Carlos around to his better side and he strikes out on a pitch out of the zone.
Not good at all.
Willie's Fault: Just show some courtesy and respect, that's all. If you want to talk like a thug, then sure, leave. You won't be missed.-JD
This seems to be the Mets MO all year against good teams. The mets have plenty of opportunity all year to blow the game open and when they don't the other team comes back and wins.
OK, again, our ace getting hit hard, not being the ace we need especially a guy getting paid 22 mil a year. If a met fan can't understand that concept than I don't know what else to say.
If santana gives up a run to ruiz than he is a bum because this guy stinks as a hitter.
There is no excuse for this, the Mets have there ace on the mound and the phillies have a pitcher who isn't a major league caliber pitcher pitching and the score is tied at 2 in the top of the 7th inning.
This is the biggest series this year, where are these grat met fans (Sadeki and CLM), no where to be found.
The best thing that could happen for the Mets here is that the umps call this game as a tie and the mets finish this game another day, The way this game is going they will lose this game.
I guess the phils pitching isn't as bad as people said it is because durbin who supposedly stinks is making the mets hitters look like AA team.
In all fairness to Santana the Mets should have had at least 4 runs in this game. The Mets just don't score runs when santana pitches, unbelievable.
Phillies starters except Hammels have been very poor , but the pen has been excellent.
Real happy Durbin is out of the game.
Carlos has good history against Madson
Looking outside the stadium I see four fireworks displays in Philly. Note inside the park, but either team.-JD
Are we going to see a Golden Sombrero ?
Beltran blows when it comes to the big spot. This is why the real met fan has no love for this guy, he blows in a big spot.
Beltran has been the guy tonight to win the game for the mets and he has been horrible.
I like that Santana is in for the eighth. It's a shame they left their bats in St. Louis.-JD
Santana has been very good tonight. This is on Beltran and the rest of the Mets hitters tonight. I don't blame Santana for calling them out tonight.
My niece and I went to a lot of games in the mid '80s when both Keith and Ron were on the team. Keith was a superb first baseman and as the Captain, really patrolled the infield to make sure everyone knew what to do and did it. He yelled a lot. Ron was a talented and smart pitcher. If someone on those teams was misbehaving either Davey Johnson or Keith or one of the other players would chastise them, not necessarily in private. They were a hard playing TEAM.
Nowadays, apparently the Wilpons and Omar have decided to baby their misbehavers, and look what that has gotten them. Spoiled brat players – some of whom have already been traded away and some that are still there, but are underachieving and wasting their talents.
So, I completely agree with John that someone needs to step up and wake up this team and make them play real baseball . That means giving the staff free rein to discipline those who need it. It also means naming a Captain for this team, now.
If the Wilpons don't want real players on their team, what are they doing in organized baseball anyway??
For the Met fans who bashed me and other met fans on this blog. I'm sure you didn't watch the game tonight so shut up, we don't want to here your garbage. This team is pathetic, many chances to win this game and they didn't get it done. Same OL'e same Ol'e stinking Mets!!!!
Santana kept them in the game. I guess the stat for that is a no-decision.-JD
Really could have used Sanchez weds in St Louis if he was not hurt.
The Mets are a bunch of suck a@@. There is no other way to describe this team. This team is a bunch of choke artist, see ya later, I hate this team, they truly blow. I hate the philly's and I truly think they stink and will go no where in the playoffs but the Mets suck, case closed. Enjoy this met team sadeki and CLM, enjoy.
I really thought Mets should have walked Victorino with the open base.
This was a very bad loss.
Beltrans ab with the bases loaded was the turning point.
I really truly now hope that the phillies blow the mets away and sweep this series so all delusional met fans can see this team really stinks and is going no where, i really do, enough already, please.
If you walk Victorino who hasn't been hitting, and they bring up Jenkins/Dobbs, your in trouble.
They threw a fastball inside and he turned on it. Felt like a game from last year.
It's not Johan's fault that the Mets can only muster 2 runs against 8 innings of J.A. Happ, Durbin, and Madson.
I don't want to hear that the mets played a close game and could have won, get a grip, this team is going no where.
I really hope this team loses many games near the trading dead line and Omar realizes it's time to blow this bunch up of losing characters and starts all over because there is no doubt in my mind the Mets will go no where with this bunch of characters on this team.
"But we're only five and a half games back with half the season to go!"
Yeeeeeeeeah. And what hopes do we have of this mess improving? Oh, Luis Castillo, Moises Alou and Orlando Hernandez could come back from the DL and…
Yeah. Yeah.
If you don't have a rationale where the team could get better, you don't have a comeback.
Walking Victorino could still be looked at as the correct move. You set up the force giving you better odds on a ground ball.
Look Manuel gambled that Victorino was in a slump and would not get a hit. It did not work but the Mets really lost this game much earlier.
To many lost opportunities, typical of way too many Mets losses this year and also last year.
I really am tired of watching Beltran fail in clutch situations. (But who among us really expected him to deliver?) You KNEW that he (and Delgado) would fail. Unfortunately, Beltran is a 260-280 hitter with little emotion, no leadership qualities and a lack of ability to deliver what he's being extremely over-paid to do.
If this team does go down in flames, we should give serious thought to moving this guy. We've seen the best he has to offer. There have been some nice streaks, but on the whole I will think of him as a big disappointment. He is such a pivotal guy on this weak-hitting team that we simply cannot afford him to be the passive, weak player he is. And what an awful outfield we have! The more I write the angrier and more frustrated I become.
As I watch the Phillies continue to beat us for a second straight year, I have to admit I am jealous. They are so much more of an interesting team to watch and root for than the Mets are.
I have been a believer that this team would turn it around and find a way. But I fear they are choke artists when the money is on the line. I hope I am wrong, but they'll have to prove it to me. And Jerry Manuel is wrong – we do not have a leader in this clubhouse. We have nothing in that department. The guy with the most leadership qualities is in the announcer's booth. Unfortunately, when he tells the truth about this club, they can't handle it!
Mike C.
Screw all those bloggers who come on here and knock me for posting the way it is with this club. Those bloggers show me that they know nothing about the team they route for and have no business saying anything towards other bloggers. The 2008 NY Mets are a bunch of losers, losers, losers!!!!
One small key to helping this team would be a right handed bat that could platoon in LF with Endy and possibly also play a little 1B.
Chirs Aguila in LF really just does not cut it.
Omar not having a back up plan for Alou is the one truly critical error he made in building this team.
None of the others would matter if he had an answer for Alou being out.
paulunde,
Believe me when i tell you that the phils aren't that good, it's just that the mets have a losing bunch of characters on there team when it comes to winning when it counts. That is a winning team and the Mets are not that team. Omar Minaya is the guy who built this team so he is the one to blame. I'm tired of saying this all year. I can't wait until this season is over when all you fans who knocked me for being negative will see I was right all along.
The 2008 NY Mets record 80-82!!!! Mark that on your calender.
Sure trade Beltran. Find a CF who hits 30 HR's 100 RBI's and plays Gold Glove CF and I have no problem otherwise please stop with this nonsense.
Also Beltran has never been a 300 hitter so why should you expect that now.
The Mets lack a true clean up hitter. Having one would make the lineup much better.
Josh
Thank you
Scott- Kevin McReynolds used to put up great numbers too. Beltran is not a bum. He's just not much of a leader or clutch hitter. He was a career 260 hitter when we signed him. Not much has changed. He has some brilliant moments and then disappears.
tomg- I hear you. I don't think the Phils are that great. But the Phils have heart and guts. We do not. Maybe we can win in spite of that. I was hoping our starting pitching would be the catalyst. But how much better could we have gotten than the game Santana gave us this evening? I agree with you about Omar. After seeing the fruits of his labor I think he is a bad gm. Apparently, he does not see the huge flaws this team has had for some time now. Like I said. I hope we can find a way in spite of them. I still have not given up hope, but you may be right about this club.
Josh,
Your post are usually belligerent when a met doesn't hit or field so you’re no different, you are the last person on the planet who should tell someone to STFU dude. If nobody believes me just remember that blog name "JOSH" I guarantee you he will say something negative.
McReynolds is not half the player Beltran is.
Want a reason for tonights loss
1-5 in the line up combined 1-17
Not a mets fan but some observations.
Reyes is awesome, but needs to be put under control, its like his team right now. Wright is great. Castillo? bad fit, they should have upgraded that spot. Delgado? same thing, need an upgrade. Beltran?? well, what you see is what you got. The problem is when the Mets got him I think many met fans thought they were getting Mickey Mantle. hes a good player, not a great player.
Another problem with Beltran is his salary might make it tough to trade him. Beltran has all the talent in the world. Still, he's just not a great player. Very inconsistent. Scott, if you are happy with his performance and leadership, I'd say you have low expectations for a guy brought here to be a bigger impact player than he really is.
Tomg- I shouldn't have told you to STFU, and for that I apologize…
Yes, your right, I am a tad harsh with my criticisms sometimes, but not nearly to the extent of you..
In this space of posts alone, you call the Mets "choke artists", "suck @ss", "losers", "losing bunch of characters", "stinking Mets", and you say you hate them, they suck, they're losers, they're going nowhere, they're pathetic, you call anyone who doesn't agree with your mindframe delusional, and finally, in almost every post of yours tonight, you insult the team in any possible way…
Many of your criticisms are valid; the Mets aren't a very good team, and they have a very small chance of making the playoffs… But why the need to post something negative every other post?
Finally, why do you continue to watch this team if it fills you with contempt? Watching baseball is supposed to be fun, and criticisms are usually valid and needed, but you just blast the team nonstop, and it makes it much harder to read this blog….
Again, I'm sorry I told you to STFU, but when I read posts like yours on almost every Mets fansite, it just depresses the heck out of me…Much of it is valid, but extremely excessive
Considering the state of this team , trading Beltran is not the right move. He is a very good player/ Unfortunately he is not a clutch hitter.
He puts up good numbers but when the game is on the line to frequently he does not come through.
However, we have many holes on this team. Losing your everyday CF and a mainstay of your offense will not make you better.
I would not wish to trade Beltran for the sake of trading him. It would have to be to improve the team. I remember liking Aaron Rowand a lot last season. He may not have all the tools Beltran has but it seemed to me he had more passion for the game. I was just comparing stats and both players were born in 1977. I wonder how crazy it would be to entertain the thought of trading Carlos. I realize its a long shot but who would fit the bill for us?
btw, Beltran has a whopping 4 hits over his last 10 games. I guess Manuel was right to give the guy a day off. I hope Beltran proves me wrong tomorrow and starts a nice hot streak. If he ever lived up to his potential, he could carry the team.
Don't blame Beltran for this.
Blame the Mets front-office for building a team so ridiculously dependent on oft-injured old guys and Expo wash-outs that Minaya still had a shine for that…
The Mets had to send out a starting line-up that included Damion Easley, Ramon Castro, Endy Chavez… all fine back-ups who are not starters… Christina Aguelera and the brokedown 2008 model of Carlos Delgado.
Beltran's a quite good player in a slump.
Those guys are three bench players, a AAAA org-filler and the corpse of a guy who was an All-Star five years ago.
Blame them and blame the organization for leaving themselves in a position where those guys were all they could trot out there.
I thought the Hernandez-Reyes episode could have been covered from a number of different angles that went beyond the obvious two-guys-arguing-on-a-plane. For all the bluster about being a team leader and a captain, Hernandez was notorious for burying teammates in the press, particularly with anonymous quotes. (Mike Lupipca used to refer to him as the Prince of Darkness.) So, there's the idea that Mex, 20 years later, is still working back channels with the media.
Beyond that, though, is the idea that it takes a broadcaster to address this ongoing problem with Reyes. No manager, coach or teammate seems willing to put themselves on the line to call Reyes out publicly. The idea that it falls to a broadcaster, even one who has played this game in the media before, speaks volumes about what's still wrong with this clubhouse.
Tiffany- Why try to smear Hernandez? And why bring up anything said, by of all people, Mike Lupica?! Back channels? Hernandez made his comments on the air, and truthfully they were not outrageous or even controversial. Reyes appears to be rather ignorant if he still is confused by any of the criticism he receives.
excuse me but the expo washouts include arguably the best position player on the team and your starting catcher.
in exchange for that we gave up a young player who thinks he is the best player in the game who cannot play better than your avg OF and who is hitting 250.
complain about all the old backup players and broken down players on this team if you like, but the other two who you have complained about since they got here are doing what they were traded for. namely starting LF and the defensive catcher who can help all the young pitchers we have.
The "starting catcher" couldn't even hit well enough to be started in the opening game against the first place team in the East.
The "best hitter on the team" couldn't be depended on, health-wise, to start that game either.
So your argument is kind of suspect.
Church was out for a month because of a concussion that was handled very badly by the team. The catcher is a starter for a reason. So how is my argument suspect?
Also if you look at Church's offensive numbers he is pretty much top 4 across the board and that is with a month off.
Or perhaps you would prefer they DFA Church since he is just a pair of boots?