Mets Chat Room: Let’s get it together.
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- June
- 24
First of all, thanks to Josh last night and Jake tonight for taking over the blog. Yours truly hasn’t been feeling well lately and spent the good part of the day with the doc . I will shut it down until the Yankee series. I will, however, keep posting and monitoring the blog.
If nothing else, I hope that gives you an idea how much I care about this.
That leads me to the next issue, which was pointed out to me in an email from a long-time poster. This blog is getting more and more confrontational and it irritates me. And, “Fists of Fury,’’ Bob isn’t the only one. He’s just the one I’m most active in banning right now.
Here’s the deal. I like the blog and want it to keep growing. However, it can’t, and won’t, go on like this.
My concept of the blog is like a group of friends hanging out watching the games together and shooting the breeze.
Let me ask you, if you’re with your friends and somebody didn’t like what you said and called you stupid, or ignorant, or arrogant, or any number of things I have read here, would you stand for it?
What if somebody was obnoxious and threatened you? What would you do?
Chances are you wouldn’t hang with that group anymore.
Can you see my point? I want this to be a pleasant place to exchange ideas. That’s it. I don’t care if you agree with me or not. Just discuss it like adults.
Yes, I know, the Internet is like the Wild West where most everything goes.
But, this is my blog and I don’t like the vulgarity. I don’t like the threats. I don’t like the name calling. I don’t like somebody using three or four identities and hijacking the blog.
When somebody writes me and tells me this isn’t as fun as it used to be in makes me angry.
I will be more aggressive in deleting comments. I will be more aggressive in telling people to leave. I will be more aggressive in banning people.
I like dealing with most of you and find the give-and-take and exchange of ideas refreshing. I also don’t mind getting tweaked.
I just don’t like it when it gets mean-spirited. So, let’s share the sandbox and play nice.
Thanks, JD
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on Tuesday, June 24th, 2008 at 6:36 pm by John Delcos.
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Well said, John. A lot of people decry the lack of civility in society these days, but then turn around and trash others. Civility starts at home: how you act, what you say, what you write.
Let’s Go Mets!
And: Get Well, JD!
JD,
If you would have accused me of being nasty towards the Mets than I am guilty as charged, to other people, not a chance. There is nothing wrong with debating but there is no need to get personal. I’m glad to see you address this problem.
Nice post JD….let’s hope the civility returns and the Mets can start a win streak…..
I will remain polite and civil even though Coin Flip has us down 0-5
Glad you spoke out. Too bad a few have to spoil it for the rest.
BTW, what chance do you think Omar has of unloading Coin Flip™? Will anyone take a chance on this guy? I figure Tony Armas could be no worse.
I have seen blogs with much worse behavior than here, but your point is taken, John. I actually got a kick out of Bob. Watching this team and talking about how much they suck needs a little relief. Maybe its just me.
I think Minaya should be a seller at the trading deadline but I know it won’t happen. Minaya keeps claiming this is a championship caliber team. He must think met fans are dumb. Minaya is in the wrong field, he should have been a politician. I can honestly say that I don’t like this team. I don’t like the makeup, character of this team. I heard that Minaya’s job is safe because the Wilpons like Minaya. It stinks being a met fan.
Go Jerry Go !!!!! The crowd loves it. Beltran is fired up, WOW!!!
Yeah, that’s awesome. We’re down 5-0 and our best hitter in the lineup today is now ejected. Fantastic.
Oh yeah, 2 losses in a row to the worst team in baseball.
Hey all, this is Jake Thomases. I’m filling in for John today. The Mets are already down 5-0. And with the lineup they threw out there, it’s hard to see a comeback in the works. Aside from the usual M.I.A.’s (Alou and Church), Wright is getting the night off. That means Delgado in the cleanup spot, Trot Nixon (who was just pulled out of the minors) in the 5-hole, and Tatis (who was just in the Mexican League) in the 6-spot. Not exactly a lineup to shake them out of their team-wide slump.
I think The Mets will remain close enough that Minaya will be a buyer. I think it’s in his nature. While Expo GM he traded three prospects for Bartolo Colon despite being 7 out in the wild card. The Wilpons do not want to move into Ebbets Field II with a rebuilding team. Money is involved and that’s why they play the games.
If this team is really committed to winning they find a way to do get something productive out of the garbage named Oliver Perez. He simply sucks
I wonder what Coin Flip’s agent will say in the off season when he tries to convince a team to sign his client.
John—You must care that I don’t agree with you. Anything less would break my heart.
I guess Wilie was definitely wrong. Ejections do indeed inspire a club.
Now the battle begins to hold this to a single digit loss. Anyone remember the heroes of 1979? 99 losses with six games left and a 100 loss season staring them in the face. Joe Torre’s crew reeled off six straight wins to finish 63-99. They should open Citifield saluting the likes of Craig Swan, Steve Henderson, Kevin Kobel, Richie Hebner and Tom Hausman.
OK, I’m ready to join you guys on the ledge now!
If I remember correctly didn’t the Mets offer Coin Flip a contract and they turned it down saying it wasn’t valuable enough? Like Dan said it’s going to be very interesting to see how his agent spins this season.
I think the Mets got lucky here… they certainly shouldn’t offer him a contract.
Hey, no big deal, its only the end of June. “With all this talent” what’s to worry about. Omar put this ragtag bunch together. Its gotta be good. It just had a bad manager.
You can’t be upset when you get whipped by a HOFer like Dickey. What? That’s not Bill Dickey. I thought Bill Dickey moved to pitcher when Yogi took over behind the plate.
Unless this team is VERY close to first place at the trade deadline – not likely! – I would trade Ollie in a heartbeat. And to repeat what’s already been posted, do NOT resign. Do NOT resign.
First the manager goes, then the GM gets all the attention put on him. Thats why Omar stalled as long as he could before swinging the axe.
Lets change the name of the Mets to the LaughingStock.
The Mess works for me.
announcers are having a conversation about thier pets.
Pets are as good a topic as any.-JD
Willie,
Not that you needed to be told this. I’m sure you already knew. It was not your fault. Matter of a fact, people will soon realize how good you were. But it’s to late now. Enjoy the family, play some golf and cash your check every two weeks. Good night, Fred, Omar, jeffy, Tony. Sleep tight
TheGuvLovesTheMets mentioned Manuel’s ejection. Obviously it hasn’t made a whole lot of difference. That is to say, any difference. Anybody think ejections really do fire up a baseball team? I suppose there could be a carry-over to tomorrow. Not that they should need any incentive to hit Miguel Batista, who’s got an ERA over 6.
I’m curious as to what you all think of Manuel getting run seven games into his Met career.
Yeah, I think an ejection has to pay immediate dividends—say, within three innings or 90 minutes, whichever is less—in order to make a difference. Yeah, that’s it.
I think he is trying to do anything he can to get his teams attention. I think it is done in deperate times. Joe Torre never got ejected and has 5 rings. Willie learned from Joe. My feeling is if you have to get thrown out of a game to get your teams attention then things may be to far gone.
I think it was a good thing. It brought the crowd to thier feet, and it was the only thing they had to cheer all night. Beltran showed some fire for a change. It would have been better to do it in a close game, where the team could use it to rally. It will be interesting to hear what the players say about it. Feel better, John.
well,
I’ve been saying this for a while and I know my fellow bloggers know this but Omar Minaya is and will kill this franchise to the point where the Mets organization will be the laughing stock of the league. Unfortunately the biggest idiots are Fred and Jeff Wilpon. Why would anybody in there right mind think this is a good team. The only decent players in the everyday lineup is reyes, wright and beltran, that’s it. There is no way you will win allot of games with this lineup and a average pitching staff. I’m done watching this team and I now look at the mets like i look at the knicks.
Ok, Tom have a good night. I have a feeling we havent heard the last from you. :D
Besides. If firing your manager at 3am did not get your teams attention what makes anyone think the ejections will?
Isn’t it possible that Willie stunk AND the players stunk (still do stink)? My point is that Manuel has already given this club something Willie never did – a reason for his players to stand up for HIM (see the post game press conference). This team needs new players, too, but Manuel is a good start.
JM,
The only think I saw Jerry giving tonight that Willie never gave was a 10-0 loss to a baseball team 20 games under 500. Sorry. I would like to beleive that.
tomg: I know things look bad, but this team is still better than the team Omar took over at the end of 2004.
I was cleaning out my closet and found my copy of the 2004 Met media guide. Those Mets were truly a pathetic bunch.
If Omar does get fired at least the next guy will be able to start with more talent.
Met Head,
They will have to purge this team of losers, but you can’t have a manager that players won’t even play for. And that is what Willie was. So yeah, whether they lost 20 – 0 is not really the point when it comes to Manuel.
Can we get over that “we can still turn it around and get to the playoffs!” thing now and just enjoy the season? No more ulcers over some distant hope that everything will magically change?
Can we just enjoy the season, watch Jose steal some bases, Santana strike some guys out, watch Wright and Beltran hit some dingers and… hope that most of the rest of this idiocy is discarded in the winter?
Can we take off our rose-coloured glasses, believing that if Tony Armas and Val Pascucci are called up they will give us food and water and smite our enemies somehow, and just watch some baseball?
Is it cool now? Just win 80-85 games and rebuild in the winter?
Is it okay to be a sane and rational fan again?
JM,
I”m not sure the players ever stoped playing for Wille. I guess John being around the team can answer that one. In my eyes they just are not that good. If the mets wind up 10 games uner 500 for Jerry will that mean they quit on him?
Also, Willie had the third best winning percentage of any Met manager.
Final point. Any player that quits on his manager means he is quiting on his team mates. That being said, he is not someone I want on my team. Which by the way, Willie had very little say in picking
Mike C.,
That is pretty much what I’ve known was going to happen since about week 2 of this season. They simply don’t have it this year.
Mike C,
Very well put. If all fans thought like you cooler heads would prevail and the team would not be in the state they are in now. They need to weed out the snakes both on and off the field this winter and take it from there. Enjoy this team for what it is and what its not.
Met Head,
I never said they quit on Willie. I was implying that they were indifferent. And if you read carefully, you’d see that I said that the players have to change as well. So no, I won’t say they quit on Manuel based on their record, which I expect to be a bit better, but not much.
JM,
I hope your right record wise. But I have a very bad feeling about this team right now. In most cases after a mgr is replaced the team goes on a good roll. This team seems to be going the other way.
Actually the only hope is that the Phils continue to stink it up, but that can only last so long.
I just hope Omar does not make a real bad trade.
They need to Hold on to Carp, Evans, Niese, and F-Mart.
Maybe none of them will be stars but I would rather wait and let them develop.
A year from now they will be better than anything the Mets have on the bench now.
Steve Somers just said Claudio Vargas was DFA’ed… Muniz coming up.
Delcos you hear anything?
Did you hear Vargas DFA
Muniz is coming up.
FAN would not have announced if it was not true.
Yeah, Vargas has been sent down, and Muniz is up.
I loved how Manuel started to get into it, it was the best part of a game which I really didn’t want to watch.
I spoke my piece about the team last night, so I guess I might as well speak about the blog now.
John asked me to contribute to the blog when it started in 2006. I’m still delighted to be a part of it most of the time, but I have to admit that he’s right about the civility level slipping here.
Fans are fanatic about their teams, players, games etc. and their enthusiasm is wonderful to see, however all the mean stuff is not. Let’s go back to being fans in the seats talking about the game.
As John said:
“My concept of the blog is like a group of friends hanging out watching the games together and shooting the breeze.”
Sounds like fun, doesn’t it?
Let’s make it work.
A few weeks back there was discussion as to whether Pelfrey or Vargas would be sent to the minors (or bullpen) when Perdo Martinez returned from the DL. I suggested that Pelfrey and Vargas should stay in the rotation and Perez is the one who should go to the pen. I feel even more strongly about that now. As someone who has had very little faith in Coin-Flip these last couple years, even I am surprised at how truly bad he is.
Let’s hope Pelfrey can keep improving. John Maine must become more reliable. I think strong starting pitching is the best shot we have at turning the season around. How many people are left out there who would like to see Perez remain in the rotation? I think Vargas should get another chance to see if maybe he can do better. If he cannot, I don’t know what moves are left for us.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
I am out of town and just read the scores of the last two days and comments, including John’s call for some civil sharing of the sandbox. I enjoy this blog very much for John’s insights and feedback that he receives from the players, and, while I may not always agree with what is written, I respect John’s as well as any other person’s right to express themselves. I have been a Met fan for forty years now, and, living with adversity and frustration with them is what goes along with the territory. When the blog comments start to have one blogger call another one out, it gets to be school yard style trash talk, which no one wants to hear. My suggestion is just to ignore those that choose to attack others and let John decide whether to ultimately block them.
Aa for the team itself, I agree with what many have stated and hope that Minaya does not go for the “big splash” buyer type trade that gets a name here just for the next year or two, but, totally mortgages the future. This team needs more that just one bat or one arm. Minaya knows with Willie gone he is now the next potential target, and, I hope that he does not react out of urgency to prove his worth.
Is it possible to give Tony Armas Jr a chance in the rotation? He has always been more an injury prone prospect than a real starter but he is pitching well. Oberkfell and Warthen saw him. They should be consulted to see if he can do the job.
Perez has no fastball anymore. He had speed in 04 and in 07 and he lost it both times and turned to crap both times. Whether it be arm problems he is hiding or an inability to throw a strike causing him to press and throw slower, doesn’t matter. Time for the Mets to follow Pirate lead and give up. He’s not here next year anyway. As for a replacment if Minaya would give up then bring up Niese and let him pitch the whole year here no matter what. Since Omar hasn’t given up, I don’t think it matters whom he calls up. For whatever reason it won’t be Vargas. I don’t understand this move. Even with getting bombed yesterday, he’s under a hit an inning, under a walk per 3 innings, and he’s a viable occassional starter.
Probably the worst thing for this team’s future has been the Phillie swoon. It leaves Minaya dreaming that if on;y he can find that washed up guy with 3 good months in him, he’ll pull out a rabbit.
You know i’ve never been more embarassed at being a Met fan at any time in my life until now. Losing two in a row to the worst team in baseball at home is inexcusable. I think i’ve seen enough of this team to know that at the very best they will be a .500 team this year. There is too big of a sampling to refute that IMO. I’m ready to build around Wright/Reyes/Santana/Maine/Pelfrey. If Omar hasn’t done it by now, he should be exploring the trade market for Beltran, either now or at the very worst the end of the season, depending if the team miraculously turns it around. Delgado should be cut..period. Bring up Carp and give him a shot…hell bring up both Carp and Evans and have them platoon. It can’t be any worse than Delgattago. Do not resign Perez, see what he can get for you at the deadline..maybe a lower level fringe prospect or two. Other than that , there really isn’t a bunch of trade value..maybe Schoenweis, but that is it. Either way, this team as presently constituted is not very good. A new hitting coach isn’t going to do the trick either. New players are what is needed.
How do you expect them to win without Nieto? Come on!
Here’s a thought. Probably stupid and naive but let me throw it out. Have Coin Flip make a start this weekend against the Yankees. If he pitches well (and he has in the past against them) see if you can make a trade with them for Coin Flip. The number of Mets Yankee trades in the past are very rare (Ventura for Justice in 2001 is about it) but maybe that can change with George out of the loop with his health problems. The Yankees may balk at trading a couple prospects for a CC Sabathia rental. Would they trade a Jeff Karstens or Alan Horne for Perez?
Minaya has a point saying there is a strong core of good young players in Reyes, Wright, Beltran, Santana and Maine. Not sure if I will include Church as he does. Maybe too many people are writing this team off as too old or weak in the minors.
JD: a few questions and a statement or 3.
couldnt the mets play under protest? it was obvious what happened, even with the poor playing.
are the umpires untouchable as far as prosecution? I mean everyone saw him bait, there should be something in the rule book that can throw the ump out. no?
ok for the statement, I was so proud of manuel, thats what a manager does! I love willie, but he was way too laid back.
Its amazing how right after that the ump felt brave enough to eject Beltran. unreal… its a shame it got wasted and no one could focus on hitting the damned ball past a double play. there’s always tonight!
oh yeah. and the fact we didnt win the argument over the thrown glove! come on! that was a rally killer right there!
You dont lose your fastball at 26 years old. Maybe with free agency coming up, Perez has been encouraged by Boras to suck it up, and keep pitching through an injury.
Bring back Victor zambrano
It aint pretty :
http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Victor%20Zambrano&pos=P&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=406913
Sadecki: I agree with you normally but this is the second time in this guy’s career he lost his fastball. When he had his great year with Pittsburgh he was in mid 90s. When they dumped him he was in 80s. Then last year he was back to 94. Now he barely touches 90. Hurt or whatever. At 90 he’s a loser.
Why does Keith Hernandez hate the QualityStart statistic so much? Pitcher’s W-L record is a much worse statistic than quality starts. In fact the percentage of a pitcher’s starts that are quality starts is a very good gauge of how well he has pitched. Think about it. You have to go at least 6 innings and allow no more than 3 earned runs. I understand that if you pitch 6 innings and allow 3 runs you are pitching to 4.50 ERA and 4.50 is not an outstanding ERA. In fact its right around the league average. 4.24 is the NL ERA right now. But the thing is, that is the absolute worst that you can do and still be credited with a quality start. Perhaps the name of the start should be changed to DecentStarts because 3 runs in 6 innings is not quite quality pitching, but its still a very informative statistic.
Like I said 3 runs in 6 innings is the worst that you can do and still be credited with a quality start. That means that in all of a pitchers quality starts are the games where he allowed 3,2,1 and 0 runs in 6 or more innings. In those games his ERA is likely to be a lot lower than 4.50. If a pitcher pitches 6 innings and allows 2 runs his ERA for the day is 3.00. 1 run and its 1.50. 0 of course its 0.00.
I think the reason that they chose 6 innings and 3 runs is that 2 runs is a very, very good start. That threshold is too high. The idea is to show how often the pitcher gives the team a decent chance to win. I think its an excellent stat.
QS has an advantage over ERA in that it is not so skewed by a few bad performances. If a pitcher pitches 4 straight starts of 6 innings each and allows just 2 runs in each start and then pitches a game where he allows 6 runs without recording an out and is pulled from the game he has allowed 14 runs in 24 innings for an ERA of 5.25. Not so impressive. But he has actually been a big asset for the team. He has 4 QSs in 5 starts and his .800 quality start percentage is a much better indicator of his true value than his unimpressive 5.25 ERA.
The Mets leaders in QS% are :
Johan Santana 75%
John Maine 60%
Claudio Vargas 50%
Mike Pelfrey 43%
Pedro Martinez 40%
Nelson Figueroa 33%
Oliver Perez 25%
That’s everyone who has started for the Mets this year. Noone had 0%.
I think a quality start being 4.50 is riddiculous. I don’t know if being over the league average should ever be considered as quality. So I hear what Keith is talking about.
I agree about Perez’s velocity. He can’t win unless his fastball is at least 93mph. He just doesn’t have the command or a good enough off-speed pitch.
Steve, I understand that some bristle at calling a 4.50 ERA outing ‘quality’ but that’s sort beside the point of the stat. Maybe the name should be changed but its still a good stat to gauge how often a starter is keeping the team in the game. If you leave allowing 3 after 6 you’re usually in the game.
Actually, now that I think of it, that’s the only stat that I can think of that has an implied value judgment in its name.
When the Quality Start came in 25 years ago, people were outraged a 4.50 ERA was quality. Back then it was pretty lousy. Hernandez opinion may have been set by that. I used to wonder “why not change it to 2 runs in 6 innings” but no one ever thought of that. Or maybe make it 7 innings. People just ranted about “How can a 4.50 ERA be a quality start”?
JD,
Thanks for the post. We need more civility here.
As for our Mets, what can I say. Church and Pagan had energy early in the season and we are missing them now.
I just wish the team would try on every play and keep the errors to a minimum. Then they would be fun to watch regardless of what happens.
I think they have been better after the firing, but the feeling may have faded.
Dave