Mets Chat Room
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- June
- 23
Hi guys. Back home. I wrote about it in today’s paper that there’s a different feel about the Mets these days.
They’ve sliced four games off their deficit, and with Philly on the schedule for their next trip, they can be in first by the break.
But, they can’t afford to let up against teams like Seattle.
This entry was posted
on Monday, June 23rd, 2008 at 7:04 pm by John Delcos.
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...wtf
Dear Johan Santana,
If your going to throw 92 MPH fastballs, please locate them.
Ok,
This is not the first time I’ve said this so I am not a front runner. Johan Santana is so over rated it’s not even funny anymore. This isn’t as bad as Zito but it isn’t good either. This guy is not worth the prospects and money the Mets gave this clown. This guy blows. This is the Mariners, just look at this line up and all they have done is hit Santana, mean while the Mets have hit nothing but harmless bouncing ground balls to the infielders. I admit Wright is the reason why that happen with his ridiculous play at third with a ground ball he should have charged but giving up a homerun to an American league pitcher who never hits is inexcusable.
Hi John –
As a beat writer, your view of baseball is different from mine. I’m just a life-long fan who, until recently loved the game for the game itself. I thought it stood for fairness, play by the rules, and earning a trip ‘home’.
Now I’m not so sure.
The way the Mets organization has treated a very fine baseball man saddens me.
I’m talking about Willie. The same Willie who had a clear, clean reputation until last week when he was fired from a job that he was doing well. In fact, no one was able to really say a bad thing about his work habits, his skills, and his abilities.
In the cut-throat world of MLB where winning at any cost is the only criteria of success, the Mets fired a really nice man who was doing his job. Yes, Willie Randolph has had his good name and his reputation stained because the Mets weren’t winning.
So now – what do we tell the kids. That it’s not how you play the game, but that you must win at any cost?
There is no joy in baseball anymore.
I said it earlier today that Johan has disappointed me so far. I expected more in both his results and stuff..Obviously, he has absolutely no control tonight, and the ball is flying out the ballpark, not a good combo.
1 HR and 2 balls that caught right at the wall. Gunna be a long long night.
1 bad pitch so far fellas… and it shouldn’t have happened. He has 4 unearned runs. I don’t understand how you can say his is a disappointment. he should have 10 wins by now, at least. He has had 2 bad outings all season. You guys have to realize he is not going to pitch 8 innings of shut out ball every time out
and those long fly balls to the wall = outs. who cares how they happen. he is a fly ball pitcher
(Josh here) Here are the particulars on Felix Hernandez’s home run:
— It’s the first home run ever hit by a Seattle pitcher.
— It’s the 14th home run hit by an AL pitcher in interleague play.
— It was Hernandez’s first at-bat of the season. He was 1 for 8 in his career previously.
— It was the first grand slam hit by an AL pitcher in interleague play.
— The last AL pitcher to swat a grand slam was Steve Dunning for Cleveland. He hit it against Oakland on May 11, 1971.
Wow. Not good.
The pitch was a 93 m.p.h. fastball on the first pitch. As you can see at home, Santana missed Ramon Castro’s glove by quite a bit. Hernandez hit it 390 feet to RCF.
Felix Hernandez hit a grandsham. That must be another for the Mets’ losers record book. Could the Mets please stop making these kind of record!
It bothers me more that the Mets have only taken 38 pitches in 4 innings…gotta make this guy pitch.
HEY JOSH DID I NOT TELL YOU!!!!!!!!!! U ALREADY PROCLAIMED THAT THE METS WOULD BEAT KING FELIX IN AN EARLIER POST WITH UR DISGUSTING VILE REMARKS! WHAT DID BOB WARN U OF? BOB WARNED YOU OF THE FISTS OF FURY!!!!!!!!!
PREPARE FOR THE PREPARATION OF THE PREPARATION OF THE PREPARATION OF BOB FISTS OF FURY! U MUDDAEFFER YOU!
JOSH THATS WHAT IMA DO TO YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I think it’s time to call Santana a disappointment to this point. His numbers look decent, however, he doesn’t instill the confidence of an ace, and outside of a few times beating another team’s #4 pitcher, I haven’t seen this guy come up big at all. (Plus he’s getting smoked by the Mariners… at least a few other balls should have gone out). He certainly has time to turn it around, but you’d hope you were getting a proven commodity for this kind of money.
How many time has he gone up against another team’s ace and come out on the losing side? Smoltz, Hudson, Sheets, Lackey, F. Hernandez.
The only stud pitcher that I recall him beating was Hamels in his 4th start of the year or something.
After today, the mets will be 8-7 in his 15 starts (including losses in his last 4). Not exactly “ace”-like.
Sassy – Keep in mind this has been his best start of his career so far. He’s an amazing second half pitcher, i wouldn’t be too worried
bob – stop making sense!!
Greetings folks. I have the night off after the flight from Denver. I thought I’d log on, and to my dismay, I see ``Bob’’ has decided to hijack this blog with his rambling and threats. I’ve emailed Bob and told him to tone it down other wise I would ban him. He has not listened, and in my opinion brings nothing to the table. Based on some of the feedback I get, I am not alone in that feeling.
Anyways, I apologize to all who were offended by Bob, and I am upset about those he may have driven away. For the most part this blog has been an open forum for exchanging intelligent and thoughtful comments.
Bob does not fit into that description, so I have banned him.-JD
I knew I could count on some people to be on the ledge here. Santana has pitched pretty well; not like the best pitcher in the league, but still our ace. Unfortunately, King Felix was ready for his first pitch out of frustration and jacked it. Oh well. It’s time for the offense to get it back, and I hope Felix isn’t severely injured; too bad he couldn’t at least try for the win.
mad*
4 runs down, with Ollie looming tomorrow? The boo birds circle . . .
Santana has a sub-3.00 ERA (good for 5th in the NL) and he’s kept the Mets in pretty much every game. He hasn’t been as good as he was in Minnesota, but how is that NOT being an ace? Where would the Mets be without him? I shudder to think.
Johan could have had a gem.. one mistake… damn it
So is Heilman’s role in our “defined bullpen” a mop up guy in lost causes? I know, ya gotta believe.
Santana has been a pretty good pitcher in his first year with the Mets. Better than Bret Saberhagen and Tom Glavine were. Am I missing another “big time” pitchers who come to the Mets? Most of our ( usually flop) acquisitions have been hitters like Fregosi, Foy, Foster, Carter, Bonilla, Piazza. Perhaps Leiter should be included.
JD,
glad to see you comment on your day off. I have to admit that i am extremely disappointed in the mets tonight. When you have your ace on the mound at home against the worse team in baseball and your ace gives up a grand slam against the opposing pitcher who never hits, well, saying i am extremely disappointed is an understatement. I again was starting to believe but now have decided that this team is nothing until they show consistency for at least a month or two. Until that ever happens this team is mediocre at best.
Tiffany,
I really wanted to believe that the problem was Randolph. I’m sure Randolph was part of the problem but than the guy who wanted Randolph as manager was Omar Minaya. The same guy I’ve been lobbying for his firing. I still think Omar Minaya needs to go.
The Mets always look flat when Delcos isn’t there. I’m beginning to think the team feeds off his energy.
Viola was 5-5 after a July trade and wone 20 his first full season woth Mets.
What is this BS love affair with this manager? Down 5-1 he lets this over rated, overpaid change up artist, lead off the bottom of the 6th. If this happened two weeks ago. half of Metsdom would have been screaming what a bozo the manager was. Tonite not a wrod.
And to Kevim: Defending Santana giving up a grand slam to a pitcher is just wrong. Santana will never come close to Seaver #s in NY. To me he has pitched like a # 3 not an ace. He proved his lack of fortitude last year when he begged out after 8 with 17 Ks.
Why is Duaner Sanchez pitching? I thought he was the “setup man” and there are well-defined roles in the bullpen. I didn’t know that a setup man pitches down 5-1 in the top of the 9th. Just sayin…
TomG—Didn’t they just cut their deficit in half in less than a week? They’re certainly not going to go undefeated the rest of the way, but taking two out of three every series is going to put them right in the hunt. I like to focus on a series-by-series basis, rather than on the ugliness or flatness of any specific game. Besides, who can reasonably expect them to win when Delcos isn’t there?
Yeah Guv, lotta #3 starters with a 2.93 ERA.
They may have lost to the worst team in baseball, but, as it was pointed out earlier by Kevin Burhart and Gary Cohen. Its a much more relaxed clubhouse, the players are joking around and having fun, and really people, isn’t that what it’s all about.
Yeah JM… An ERA means didley when you can’t stop a rally after a 2 out error. Looked like OP out there. Bottom line JM most # 3 dtarters have records like 7-6. Look familiar????
Kiss Jerry’s butt you all…. but SOM SAME OLD METS. No offense no defense and no clutch pitching. .500 team is a .500 team. FIRE OMAR NOW. Jerry is Omar’s rat. FIRE OMAR NOW and take the rat with him.
Well, that, and winning.
Sorry Guv, not buying that. Bad game for Johan tonight, but to compare Santana to Ollie is bunk. As for the team as a whole, that’s another story. Santana is the least of this club’s worries.
New manager same players. Goodnight Willie wherever you are. The nightmare is over.
Aaaaaaaand… they let up against a team like Seattle.
There will be no turning point, the revolution will not be televised. This is a 80-85 win team and they’re playing like it.
Nothing wrong with that, cosmically speaking, there’s gotta be roughly .500 teams for the math to work out over 162 games.
Forget about the idea of this as somehow magically becoming a playoff team out of nowhere and… this season will be a lot more fun and a lot less ulcer inducing.
JM: Whether you like them or not, when a so called ace gives upo 4 unerarned runs in the most atrocious manner he’s not even worthy of being compared to OP. And when you call one’s opinion bunk, you are a loser. Its an opinion. Based on your name calling you are worse than bunk. You are the poop that your rotten new manager said Met fans are. Santana is the least of the team’s worries. Where’s his fast ball? Gone and he’s only in his 20s . A 6 year contract that you’ll be crying about longer than Castillo’s. I don’t even knoew why anyone responds to a nmae caller like you.
Kevin – A little advice – you cannot win here. Your remark about a coronary were correct. I don’t post much anymore but love to come back and read all of the negativity.
You will come to find you cannot have a reasoned arguement here with many people. Tomg goes from elation to suicide in a matter of minutes. Others are the same way.
Of course your point about Santana is accurate. Any pitcher against the opoposing pitcher is going for strikes. Santana is a good pitcher right now and after getting used to NY will probably become a great pitcher again.
I believe the Mets tightened up in front of the home crowd last night. Why because Mets fans are awful and don’t support their team. They love to boo them. It is not this sophisticated we expect so much from our players. In reality it is a love to boo attitude.
You can see it here in the blog and it is unfortunate.
Don’t bother trying. If you do you’ll just be considered foolish. I mean how dare you say positive about this awful team!! You cannot be serious can you?
The other day many here were all capitalizing LETS GO METS! and today – another suicide watch.
Seaver was and is my favorite pitcher of all time. How can you compare anyone in today’s game to him. The only one that came close took steroids to do it. And this is the comparison that people make to Santana. Very delusional posts.
Good luck Kevin, rational thought doesn’t do well here. Just look at the response to Annie Savoy’s post.
Kevin – wasn’t talking about your comparison, I was talking about the rebuttal arguements you got.
You want to look reasonably at a 29 year old pitcher who should be reaching his best years then explain why Santana
1. A guy moves from the AL to the NL and moves to a park that is pitcher friendly and doesn’t have a DH anymore. Yet his homers per innings is worse by one HR every 8.9 innings to one every 7.6
2. A guy who’s hits per innings pitched have been significant;y under one an inning faces pitchers vice DHs and yet his hits per innings are now over one per inning.
3. A guy whose Ks per inning have been more than one per inning are now not close to one an inning.
4. A guy who gave up only 32 unearned runs in 1300 plus innings has given up 8 in only 107 this year.
Once again Minaya, as he did with Pedro bought a guy on the downhill, only this time he gave up the farm and he gave him 6 years to slide. I bet there will be posts lauding the fact that he is always better in the second half. He wasn’t better last year in the sewcond half, As a matter of fact he was a lot closer to being a OP than a Seaver last year second half.
probably more like adjusting to NY. dont imagine he ever heard a boo in Minn. didn’t see much negative about wright and his error.
Guv: Can we at least give Santana until the end of the year to evaluate him? He has pitched well for this team this year and he has been screwed out of a few wins. Yeah, his homer to King Felix was inexcusable, but that aside he has been doing fine. He is historically a second half pitcher. Lets’s give him that before we say he is on the downside of his career. And check the farm they gave up for him: Cargo has a .302 OBP pct and a slg of .379, Humber has a 5.52 ERA in AAA, Mulvey has a 4.05 ERA and has given up 6 homers in 66 innings when he only gave up 4 in Bingo in 150 innnings, and Deolis who granted is still very young, has a 4.83 ERA in A ball. So before we hate on Omar for “giving up the farm,” check out how the farm is doing.
There is no doubt that Santana had a poor game and he can’t give up a GS to the opposing pitcher who never bats. He stats (BAA, SO) are not up to his career numbers and that the HR ball that got to him last continues this yr.
But to compare him to OP is silly. Santana has thrown 12 QS in 16 games this yr. If the Mets had scored a few more runs in the 5 games where he gave up 0 or 1, he’d be 11-4 instead of 7-6. He was 19-0-2 when he gave up 0 or 1 runs with the Twins. He is 1-2-2 with the Mets. He has an ERA that is 5th in the NL.
OP is not even close to the same quality or consistency. To get OP to throw 50% QS would be great. He does not look to be even close to getting to Santana’s level of 75%.
This argument is a little like the argument that Reyes or Beltran are not playing up to their career levels. Check the stats. Both are on par w/their career #s.
Unfortunatley, OP appears to have gone back to his career level-coin flip…
What in the hell are people doing criticizing Santana? He’s one of the few guys on this team actually performing anything like a major league player, even if he’s “underperforming” a bit vis-a-vis expectations.
Santana gets an automatic pass. So does Reyes, so does Wright, so does Beltran. All four are at least playing like competent major leaguers, which you can’t say for most of this team.
Rag on Delgado for refusing to adjust his swing after losing about half his batspeed, rag on Castillo for the mental image of three and a half more years of having to puke in your mouth a little bit every time you get to watch a player with no knees left get treated like an everyday player.
Rag on Perez and Maine for being completely inconsistent, rag on Alou and Church for teasing the hell out of us by playing well when they’re healthy but not being able to stay healthy to save their lives.
Rag on Pedro Martinez for playing like a guy just trying to stay on the field to trick one more team into a couple more years of contract as a reclamation case.
Rag on Schneider for his offensive incompetence and his dwindling defensive skill in every dimension other than blocking the plate.
Hell, rag on Wagner for looking like he was purposely blowing saves until he was sure Willie got fired. Rag on Heilman for moping his way through another season where he’s tanking it because no one will make him a starter.
Rag on Minaya for building a team the way one would in 1995, buying up a bunch of old guys and hoping they find the right drugs to be suddenly young again.
But guys like Santana?
No. Free pass.
Do not pass Go, do not collect Two Hundred Criticisms.
” Can we at least give Santana until the end of the year to evaluate him? He has pitched well for this team this year and he has been screwed out of a few wins.” You can evaluate whenever you want. and every pitcher loses games he shouldn’t and gets no decisions he shouldn’t.
“check the farm they gave up for him:” Aren’t you a bit hypocritical. You don’t want to evaluate Santana yet but the guys we gave up you want to evaluate already!
“He has an ERA that is 5th in the NL. ”
Unfortunately for the Mets, the unearned runs count in the total for games won and lost. 8 unearned runs in less than half a season is terrible clutch pitching.
“Santana has thrown 12 QS in 16 games this yr.” Does anybody take the quality start seriously. A guy pitches to an ERA of 4.50 and you want to give him credit for a quality start. Maybe a 5th starter but not a so called ace. Seaver, Gibson, Drysdale, etc would laugh in your face if you tried that line on him.
“OP is not even close to the same quality or consistency.”
OP isn’t your ACE. He isn’t supposed to be as good.
Guv: Wasn’t being hypocritical…but to say they gave up the farm for him is a big assumption on your part.
I disagree Original: Baseball America had these ratings for the guys Minaya gave up for Santana (in Met system before the trade)
Guerra # 2 prospect
Gomez # 3 prospect
Mulvey # 4 prospect
Humber # 7 propect
And these guys had these bests in the system before the trade:
Best change-up Guerra
Best Slider Mulvey
Best curve Humber
Fastest Gomez
Best baserunner Gomez
Best D outfielder Gomez
Best arm outfielder Gomez
So, why is saying they gave up the farm a big assumption on my part?
Baseball America can state whatever they want. It’s an inexact science. As of what we have today, the players that the Mets traded for Santana have not been doing well, and don’t have much of a track record. On the other hand, Santana does. Now, if he fails the second half of the season two years in a row, we have something to talk about.
Baseball America’s job is minor league baseball. Yes it is an inexact science, but you’ve been around a while, just as I have and we both know that minor league stats can be very deceiving. Is a guy pushed, Is a guy left back to look good? Etc. I will take them and their impartiality above what you get from Omar or any anonymous scout reporting supposedly to some ESPN talking head. They rated these 4 guys all in the Mets top 10 prospects. Regardless of how they eventually turn out, that is “the farm” in the Winter of 07-08.