Mets Chat Room: Is there any sign?
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- June
- 11
There are 98 games left to this season. History says there is time to turn it around. But, what we’ve been watching so far says that is doubtful.
Have you seen any sign, any glimpse that they are capable of turning it around and making a run for the playoffs? Or, have you given up on the season?
This entry was posted
on Wednesday, June 11th, 2008 at 6:05 pm by John Delcos.
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The only way I can see this team turning things around is to make a change to change the atmosphere or the cloud that has risen over the mets. I don’t know what kind of change but if Omar doesn’t make some kind of change than the mets will fade away.
Sign? Mets to play short handed yet again! Seems like a sign to me.
I hate to give up on the season before the all star break and seeing how teams can get hot and win divisions from being 7 games out etc. But you cannot see anything to bright on the horizon. Some changes need to be made, no question. I think the lack of production from first base, center field, left field and the teams ability to leave men on base, are all to blame. The Mets bullpen has not been solid either, and question marks remain with Heilman and Sanchez. You can only blame Randolph for so much. If the team had more production from those positions and a stronger bullpen you would have to think the team would have a better record.
” If the team had more production from those positions and a stronger bullpen you would have to think the team would have a better record.”
Doesn’t this statement apply to every bad team ever?
well one thing is for sure- they sure as hell aren’t going to turn it around tonight against Webb…ESPECIALLY with Pelfrey on the mound…wow…4 games uder .500.
and to answer the broader question, i’m going to agree with Tomg, there is obviously something wrong with that team, and it’s in the clubhouse, not just on the field. it’s either a player or a coach, not neccesarilly Willy. and contrary to popular belief, Omar isn’t as clueless as we think, he knows what the problem is, and i’m sure he’d like to adress it, but he knows there’d be serious short-term consequences. by short-term consequences, i mean a slide that would potentially put the mets off the radar completely. however, over time, adressing the problem would prove to be a good long term choice.
an example is this: last year the los angeles dodgers were doing well in the NL West, but toward the end of the year, skidded to a halt and were quickley out of the picture. later on, it turned out that veteran Jeff Kent had been a real A-hole to some of the younger players, which divided the clubhouse, caused a lack of focus, etc. the point of that story is that teams don’t just slump and fall off the radar just because “they haven’t been playing up to their potential”
my point is that tere is something wrong in the mets clubhouse, and it came into play not in September of ‘07, but in JUNE of ‘07- if anyone remembers, we lost about 9 of 13 at one point, dropped every series that month, and got swept twice. ironically, the whole thing started with the Mets dropping 2 of 3 at home to the Arizona Diamondbacks…not that that has anything to do with it.
I understand that this was ridiculously long but it’s my opinion, and i hope some of you guys read this.
I agree with agee as a matter of fact, there is someONE in that clubhouse that is causing trouble, because what we’re seeing night after night after night IS NOT a lack of talent, but a lack of focus. It would be wise to terminate WHATever or WHOever that lack of focus may be, because no one in this blog, the state of New York, or anywhere else where there are Mets fans can deny the fact that the team we see has their heads up their a*** and is clearly NEVER in a good mental state to play the game of baseball.
So agee, someone’s been poisoning the team for a year, Minaya knows about it and has done nothing for a year. Sounds like Omar is a lousy GM then.
My heart says never give up, but my head says otherwise.
Playing without Ryan Church and Moises Alou exposes the Mets wafer-thin bench. Pitching without Pedro and El Duque shows the weakness of their starting rotation.
Carlos Beltran isn’t getting adequate protection behind him the way he did in his career year in 2006 and Carlos Delgado is on the decline. Too often, Luis Castillo comes up short in key situations and David Wright is having just a decent year. Jose Reyes’s defense has been inconsistent and too often he pops up or flies out when we need a line drive or ground ball.
All that and I haven’t even brought up the woefully inconsistent bullpen. Matt Wise may have been damaged goods when Omar signed him, Duaner Sanchez isn’t the one from 2006—at least not yet—and Aaron Heilman really should be demoted to AAA until he finds himself. Billy Wagner is not Superman.
None of the above is any indication thst things will get better. And even if Omar tries the trade market, who have the Mets got to bring back anyone of value?
Omar must consider having a fire sale if we’re in the same position this time six weeks from now.
Or maybe they are just not that good. Name one area Where the Mets are better than the Phils.
Infield – Phils
Outfield – Phils
Offense and Defense – Phils
Bullpen – Phils led by Lidge who hasnt blown a save all year
Starters – coin flip – The Phils have a better ace. This is supposed to be the Mets strength, but with Maine and Perez struggling and Martinez health issues, it is not certain anymore.
If Maine and Pelfrey could develop a change up like webb has this past year they would be good pitchers because both have the fastball, they just need an off speed pitch to compliment there fastballs.
Wow,
Omar is talking with Cohen and darling. I think Omar is in the wrong field. He should have been a politician because he is so full of s@@t and he is piling it on.
I want to believe that they can turn it around.. but they’ve shown no signs of being capable of doing it…
BTW, Hamels is NOT better than Santana…
tom g: You are great !!!!
Agee-
You are correct…actually there are TWO clubhouse problems. A friend was in San Diego and caught a couple games. While he was there, he ran into and had a nice conversation with one of the team announcers ( I choose not to mention his name at this time) It turns out that the clubhouse poison is Delgado (no suprise) and Reyes (kind of suprised). Time has come for Mr Delgado to hit the bricks…one way or the other. I’d let Pedro, Alou, and a couple of the other vets take Jose “under their wing” and help him get his head straight…if that doesn’t work? If it’s like I heard, I’d deal him before the deadline.
Interesting. Omar tells SNY the two biggest misperceptions about the Mets are that there’s no player leadership and that the chemistry is bad…
Well, Pelfrey is pitching well so far tonight. He’s had a few guys on, but no problem pitching pitching out of it.-JD
Luca: So how did Broadcaster X say Delgado is a poison?
And why would Broadcaster X share this information with a fan?
I hope the mystery announcer isn’t Wayne Hagin, who got in serious water with Don Baylor and Todd Helton a few years ago for misinterpreting a comment Baylor made, then going public with an assertion that was never proven true that Helton was using ‘roids.
Did anyone notice how Darling didn’t say a word when Omar tried to get him to agree that the players know who their leaders are?
Luca Brasi,
I’ve mentioned that before about Delgado being the cancer in the club house. Reyes I am a little surprise, I thought the other player would have been Castillo.
Tiffany
Yea, darling was thinking the same thing I mentioned in my June 11th, 2008 at 7:42 pm post!!!
Wayne Hagin is the antichrist. Spread it around.
Santana 7-4 3.08 21/76
Hamels 6-4 3.36 26/73
Santanas stats slightly better, but he pitches in a pitchers park and Hamels pitches in a bandbox.
Santana is almost 30, Hamels is 24.
Who would you rather build your staff around.
By the way, the Mets Team ERA is 4.19 vs. Phils 3.87.
The numbers dont lie. You dont need to go looking anywhere else. This team is just not that good.
Considering Darling’s comments in Klapisch’s column, that was high drama, watching Omar trying to get Darling to essentially refute those comments on live television. Darling showed, to use Delcos’ eloquent term, the stones not to cave in to pressure from management.
Ray Sadecki,
It’s good to see you finally have come to reality, welcome and I rather have Hamels, home grown than give up all your resources.
So what team will Darling be announcing for next season?
Delcos, you got your story for tomorrow. Double poison per Luca. Lucky you. Early night !!!!
Mets got a break there. We’ll see how many runs they get from it.
Tom,
Last weekend in San Diego did it. Last night solidified it.
Gil-
No, it was not Hagin. I agree with your skepticism about why an announcer would be that forthright with a fan, it kind of shocked me. They spoke for a little while, away from the yard, and apparently the announcer was very forthcoming…I take it he’s as …uh…disappointed as we are.
Another brainfart by Reyes.
Hamels ERA at home: 2.75
Hamels ERA on road: 4.50
Santana ERA at Home: 3.55
Santana ERA on road: 2.82
Hamels will probably be better in the long term, and Santana did cost a lot, but right now, I’d definitely take Santana over Hamels…
Beltran picks him up.
That a boy beltran, he comes through with a clutch hit, nice, maybe there is hope yet.
Delgado hitting the ball hard. Wow, am I dreaming, am I having flash backs from the 2006 season?
Well we don’t want Tracy to be our next first baseman. Thanks Tracy. We need all the help you can give us bud.
Luca Brasi,
could you please send one of your boys to shea and take out Gary Cohen. This guy always opens his mouth and jinx’s the mets, everytime. Pelfrey is pitching well and he has to bring up that he either gives up the first run or gives up the lead before he leaves the game, shut up Cohen!!!!
Luca: Not saying at all that the announcer is wrong or right about Delgado, but I’d be surprised by Delgado’s bitterness. He married after the ‘06 season and last year became a new dad.
Doesn’t that sort of thing make a guy happy? I was on Cloud 9 after my wedding and it overrode any workplace unhappiness. And at work in ‘07, what could’ve made him so bitter, coming off a 38 HR year, a monster post-season debut and his team narrowly missing the World Series?
Maybe he’s in denial and embittered by his decline and carrying it around in the clubhouse.
Pelfry is shutting down a good hitting team tonight. There is hope.
Are they going to let Pelfrey go or hand the game to a tired, mediocre, bullpen?
Gil:
Good observation. How do ya try to figure some people out?! I agree with your reasoning, but remember, as a FA he had issues with Omar’s “recruiting” methods and chose to sign with the Fish and was later traded to NY. He’s been injured, not hitting, and the fans have been beating him like a borrowed mule. I’m sure to a proud man, who has always carried a big stick, it must be frustrating as hell.
I just don’t think he wants to be in NY. I have never been a Delgado fan, going back to when he played for the Knoxville Blue Jays. It would not sadden me to see him leave, especially now in light of what I heard today. Let’s give a kid a chance!
It’s very simple. Good pitching cures everything. The Mets only have 5 hits so far. If the scores ends 3-0 we all say what a great game.
Sign – Pelfrey starting to pich like he belongs here. It has been coming over the last couple of starts.
The talk about an announcer would not be allowed or given creedence without support from another source if it was a journalist saying it.
I don’t believe it personally because why would that announcer put his job in jeapordy. IMO>
The rest of this whole blog is awful tonight. You are watching a beautiful pitching duel and all you can do is talk about cancers and how awful everyone and everything related to the team are. I don’t careful reasoned criticism as it is certainly deserver but only two people and JD even mention Pelfrey.
TheGuvlovestheMets- i left a comment a while ago about someone poisoning the clubhouse and i said that omar knows about it but is hesitant to fix it. i’ll back up my point with an analogy/hypothetical situation. let’s just say the problem in the clubhouse is that one of the veteran players is being a jerk to one of the younger players and that’s messing with everyone’s focus. getting rid of that veteran might cause problems off the bat- for example, the team might play poorly for a while(they already have been) or something like that. however, in the long run, getting rid of that veteran would be a good choice- it’s like pulling off a band-aid, stings at first, but eventually the would has to get some air or it continues to rot.
Pelfrey struck out Reynolds with his 99th pitch of the game. He’s been great. I hope they don’t pull him.-JD
Pelfrey tonight is what all the fuss was about.-JD
JD,
I was just thinking the same thing. pelfrey is in a zone. I don’t want to hear he has thrown 100 pitches, screw that, he is young. I would let him go out in the eight.
Yeah I changes my mind – Pelfrey is the kid and Mr. Met is teasing him. Please, you think the entire clubhouse would allow what you are reporting. You think that the entire Mets press corp. wouldn’t have reported this by now? You wonder maybe why John didn’t comment on this foolishness.
agee: I read your post and that was what I was responding to. If you leave poison for a year you have a lousy GM.
Brasi: I don’t beleive your story. 1. If it were true don’t you think one beat writer would want to make a headline busting story? I don’t believe it also because you say you’ve always hated Delgado and miraculously he’s one of the guys. I don’t believe it because Delgado is the one infielder going to the mound all the time to calm the pitchers, and the day Heilmann was worse than ever and booed out of the field by 50,000 people it was Delgado who was consoling him. That’s not poison. That’s a team player. Declining skills yes, lousy defense yes, but to make accusations with no proof is not right.
I’ve done my share of Mike Pelfrey bashing on this blog, so let me give him the props tonight he richly deserves. He is dealing an absolute masterpiece. I’ll be really pissed if he’s lifted in the 9th with a chance for a complete game shutout—something that’s sadly becoming as rare these days as a no-hitter.
A great performance tonight by John Pelfry- as Mark Grace has been calling him all night. gotta luv Gracie.
Why not let Pelfrey finish the game? Now that would be a shot in the arm
Wat to go kid!!!! congratulations to Mike Pelfrey. Hopefully this will get the mets rolling.
They are listening to me. Maybe I should be the manager :)
I like it, he is coming out in the ninth, good job willie!!!
Good move by Willie in two ways: Pelfrey gets to hear the love from the crowd when he comes to bat and he’ll have the chance to accomplish what no other Mets pitcher has, so far this season. Who’d have thought that?
Tom,
Remember how I told you Pelfry was coming around? btw Ralphie boy says hello.
Good for Randolph, good for Pelfrey. Even good for the fans at the park! Big mouth Wagner fuming in pen losing a chance for one of his many many cheap saves.
right back at ya Ralphie boy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ron Darling just said Willie made “the proper move” in lifting Pelfrey. Proper move, my @$$! Let the kid finish!!!
I agree Gil, terrible move by willie.
They should have let Pelfrey had one more batter.
gil in savanah- pelfrey pitched a fantastic game, but i have to agree with darling (and willie). when the first guy gets on, that means the pitcher is running out of gas, and with this team, a 3 run lead isn’t that safe.
Totally agree, leave him in there, could have struck the next guy out or got the double play. I’ll take the win anyway i can get one though. Don’t blow it Billiy!!
Mike Pelfrey, pitching ace.
I have hope for the season because I don’t see a great second place team out there. St Louis? Atlanta with the old pitchers going on the DL? Florida? Dodgers, perhaps. By edict of self-proclaimed traditionalist Bud Selig, some one has to make the wild card and it could be the orange and blue.
Great move Willie
I do not $#$%^&* believe this $#@*.
You suck willie !!!!
Willie must go
this is the worst moment of my life
Nice Willie…..Gret show of confidence in Pelfrey. I am sure that Pelfrey will always remember this night. Please just quit and do us all a favor.
Gil, are you still gonna tell us the manager doesnt matter?
well, what else can I say. It’s just not the mets year. This is a disaster. I would have left Pelfrey in there because the hit he gave up was not hit hard at all and I still felt confident Pelfrey would get the job done. I have lost all faith now in wagner. I bull pen really sucks.
This place is stunned. They are just waiting to boo when the inning is over.-JD
Wagner, there is an opening in the ground crew if you are interested.
we could have beat webb and given pelfrey a win. and now we’ve lost our 6th straight.
I never liked the idea of bringing in Wagner. The kid couldn’t have done any worse than Billy Goat.
Some advice for Mr. Wagner the next time he feels like calling out any of his other teammates:
SHUT YOUR %$#$@$% MOUTH!!!
Omar are you paying attention!! I’ve changed my mind, willie must go, he has no clue how to handle his team.
I feel like I did in 1987 when Pendleton hit the home run.
we could have beat webb and given pelfrey a win, but now we’ve lost our 6th straight. we’re 4 games below .500 (after tonight)
this is evil. shea stadium needs to be exorcized
Pelfrey was in a zone, the hit he gave up was a soft line drive, jeez randolph. I will not defend you anymore.
Ray: The manager matters. He just doesn’t blow consecutive save chances when called upon to do his job.
Once again, the Mets get a few runs early and the offense goes to sleep. Even if by some miracle the mess can pull this out, I want to see wee willie out of here tomorrow.
Think the Phillies were sad to lose this freakin overpasid, big mouth loser….??? The Astro improved when he left, the Phils improved when he left… the Mets won’t improve until he’s gone…. Talk about your poison. Talk the talk and choke choke choke…. Armando Benitez please come back. At least Braden Looper never mouthed off about his teammates. Only good news for me anyway. I won’t be able to watch this mess tomorrow!!!!!
Boy, the mets look like a defeated club and the game isn’t over. I would have to say that this blown save will probably be the last nail in the coffin.
It is a crime that Pelfrey lost his “W” tonight because Wagner could not hold it again. I wish Wagner would stop worrying about the rest of the team and start looking in the mirror.
Did Wagner say, “For my next impression, Armando Benitez,” before he served up another gopher ball?
Ugla hit a game winning grand slam in the bottom of the ninth to beat the phils!!!
amazingly, i’m not even mad. i just started cracking up when that left the park. it really was just laughable.
personally, i don’t blame willie for this one. i mean if he leaves pelfrey in and he blows it then he gets blamed for not bringing in the closer (who sunday night aside, has been the only consistent person in the pen all year).
also, did anyone really think that winning this game was gonna make some kind of difference in the long run. are people still really clinging to the hope that this team is capable of making the playoffs?
not me.
i’m just hoping that pelfrey continues to pitch like this. then maybe we’ll actually have a true 3/5ths of a rotation coming into next year.
I’m as critical of Willie as anyone here, but I can’t blame him for this move. I have concerns, mind you, about why his players aren’t performing for him, but I can’t fault him for bringing in his closer at that point.
Tomg: I don’t know. There’s always room for one more nail with the Mets.-JD
Gil,
You dont give up. It was a terrible move. The kid was pitching great. Yes, Wagner gave up the hit, wee willie has no clue on how to use the pen. He comes in with the hook right away like a complete game is to be avoided at all costs. Just killed all the good feeling the team and the fans were finally enjoying.
Ray Sadecki,
That’s exactly how I feel!!!
Tiffany: I agree. That was the move to make. Actually, Randolph let him in longer than I thought he would. You give him one runner, then you pull him. Textbook.-JD
JD,
I guess so but this one really hurts. It’s like I am in the middle of a bad dream and can’t wake up.
It’s like some voodoo curse has been stowed upon this team.
tomg- uggla’s walk off grandslam is going to help me out in my fantasy league, but with all due respect, do you honestly believe that we have a chance of conteding with the phillies in the nl east?
Ray: I was one of the first on the board to disagree with Willie’s move.
But how was it Willie’s fault that Wagner gave up the home run? Plain and simple, Wagner, for the second consecutive appearance, didn’t get the job done.
Look on the bright side: Extra innings means more visits from Giuseppe Franco and his good-looking customer, Doug Frazer.
No,
I don’t believe in this team. I haven’t since the collapse of last year. Whatever slight glimmer of hope I had is with out a doubt all gone. The question now is will this team even be a .500 team. I thought they were a .500 team but there not even that anymore. it just keeps getting uglier by the day. It’s a nightmare I tell you and one day i will wake up.
Of course it was Willie’s fault. Its illegal to bring Wagner in with a guy on base. It was illegal to bring Wagner in in the 8th on Sunday. Wagner is never at fault. He’s freakin perfect, as can be shown by all ZERO of his Wolrd Series rings. World Series mouth. Loser in the pinch. I’m glad Schneider made out. Wagner would have gotten a W.
I strongly believe that Omar should sell. The only untouchables are Santana, Maine, Pelfrey, smith, sanchez, beltran, wright, reyes, church.
Ray: Is it also Willie’s fault that Feliciano just walked a .176 hitter on four pitches?
let me tell you- it’s a miracle that i’m able to type because i’m so insanely pissed off right now.
with that said, i’m going to disagree with anyone who says this is willie’s fault, he gave pelf a chance, and he put the first runer one, i see nothing wrong with brining in the ace (if you can call him that). the reason for mark reynold’s moonshot landing over the left field fence is absolutely wagner’s fault, it’s not like there is anyone else in our bullpen that could have gotten the job done any better.
Holy cow… Just remembered I’m going to the game Sunday. I guess nobody wants my tickets!!!!!!!!!! I don’t even want them!!!!!! Any chancce for a hurricane or typhoon, or blizzard…...
If they lose this one , can you imagine the papers tomorrow?
It’s not willie’s fault and I don’t think this team stinking is willie’s fault. This team is obviously flawed and no manager could get this team to be a playoff contender.
I usually go to a few games a year. I am going to shea one last time but it’s to see Billy Joel. My nephew got 4th row in center field close to the stage. That will be my last time going to shea. It definitely won’t be the mets.
tomg –
i agree he should sell, but i don’t think beltran or sanchez should be included among the list of untouchables.
tiffany –
my favorite customer is andy pelaez (non-celebrity of course – as no one beats busey).
Ray: I can.-JD
Gil, Yes you were the first on the board to say it was a bad move. Now you say its not willies fault. Which is it? Willie played it by the book, I witnessed in person what happened Sunday. It is fresh in my mind. Why is it not in willies? He always talks about gut feelings. We just about all had that gut feeling here that Pelfry needed to finish this game. Wagner is the new breed of closer. dont bring him in with runners on base. bring him in the 9th with nobody on and he is automatic.
alex, the problem with beltran is his salary.
See Alou on the bench giving a lecture on staying physically fit.
JD, you said willie made the right move. whats you headline going to be?
OH BOY, Heilman is coming in to the game. Lets take a bet. how many runs does he give up and how many home runs!!!
Headline: If Wagner’s mouth was attached to his arm he would be a good closer!!!!
Heilman comes into the game to the soothing lyrics of ``Paint it Black,’’ a song about coping with death.-JD
Ray: It’s not going by your gut to bring the closer in with the game on the line, that’s going by the book. My argument is that Pelfrey was removed prematurely. The game was not on the line when Willie made his move.
Despite it turning out to backfire, how do you justify firing the manager because the closer has failed?
Is it logical to fire the manager because the teams has a stretch of scoring 3 runs in 33 innings?
By the last few posts on this board, it’s obvious I’m not alone in maintaining that this team’s problems are not the result of a bad manager.
It’s the collective result of poor execution.
I feel sick…
jd- i think it would be interesting if you made a poll of the following question: the mets final record will be
A) 10+ games over
B) Less than 10 games over
C) Between 5 over and 5 under
D) More than 5 under
Maybe it should be “HELP” by the beatles.
Braden Looper just won his 8th game. Lets send Wagner to St Louis and LaRussa can make him a starter.
tomg-
the biggest problem with beltran would be the fact that he has a no trade clause, at least i think he does. but i’m willing to wager that he’d be willing to accept a trade to a contender in a market more suitable to his temperament.
as for his salary, that might make him more difficult to move, but it shouldn’t prevent the mets from considering moving him.
also, his remaining contract (approximately 4 years 68 million) in today’s inflating market may not be as prohibitive as you might think.
granted he would need to heat up a bit before they could trade him to get the proper value, but he still is a gold glove center fielder who is capable of hitting 30 hr and 100+rbi.
Matt B in AZ,
at this rate I would say D
Gil,
Its obvious that you will forever be in wee willies corner, so it is pointless to argue the point with you. If you think I am alone just wait until tomorrows newspapers if the mess dont pull this one out somehow.
Alex, I hear ya, I agree, time to blow up this team and only keep the players i mentioned. If you want to add beltran I have no problem with moving him. The marlins seem to sell at the right time and win world series every 5 or so years.
when wagner comes out in the ninth inning they should play the song “oops there it is”, “oops there it is”!!!
The last time we sold off the team we got Royce Ring and Victor Diaz. And they were the best we got!!!!!! But I’d rather watch them than these guys. I’d call them players but I don’t want to insult the D-Backs.
Tom,
The problem with your logic is that when the mets have a firesale we get back gems like alex ochoa and diaz. (and those are the good ones).
Ray: I promise you, I’d be the first one out of his corner if he does directly does something that causes the Mets to keeo losing.
And if his firing would guarantee the Mets would turn things around and make a beeline for post-season play, I’d be all for it.
Even the players are blaming themselves.
Please show me how a)the Mets lackluster play is Willie’s fault and b)how firing him will improve the team?
Either way the mets are up s@@ts creek without a paddle!!!
tomg: I think you mean “Whoomp! There It Is!” How ‘bout Brtiney Spears’s “Oops, I Did it Again” instead, for Billy?
Gil,
I think he did something directly today. Whether I convince you are not, I guarantee you this guys days are numbered.
Gil in Savannah, GA,
I like it Gil, that should be wagners new theme song!!!
Ray: Of course I see Willie’s on the hot seat.
I still would give him until the end of this year. I can’t see a mid-season firing as the catapult it may have been to launch the far more talented ‘03 Marlins or ‘05 Astros World Series runs.
Gil,
It was documented on this blog a few days ago that when Davey Johnson (A great manager who won a WS with the mets) was replaced by Bud Harrelson, the Mets got hot would have gone on to a wildcard berth if there was one at that time.
Here’s what the Mets have done in seven innings against the D-Backs’ bullpen: three hits, three walks, a total of seven baserunners and one runner in scoring position.
Some offense.
This team really misses Church.
Ray: And if memory serves me right, Bud Harrelson—one of the most ineffectual managers in Mets history—was canned a year later after a lousy 1991.
He was then replaced by the immortal Jeff Torborg, who lasted about a year-and-a-half.
Gil,
You only strenghten my argument here. Bud wasnt even a good manager but the team woke up when Davey got fired. I remember straw and Mcreynolds complaining, but guess what? it took them out of thier comfort zone and the team responded to the change.
Reyes again not hitting, and Mets cant score.
Ray: Your argument doesn’t hold water.
Eighteen years after the fact, there’s no hard, empirical or anecdotal evidence that the Mets performed better after May 28, 1990 as a direct result of Davey being fired that day (coincidentally, my college graduation).
Your claim, at best, is speculative.
Gil,
I bet you were on the debating team in college. I am wasting time arguing with you.
How did the Joe Torre mid-year hiring work out?
A bittersweet win if there ever was one.
Ray, we’ll continue our discussion Friday night.
Good night everyone.
Breathe.
Thank goodness. I thought Cohen was going to start crying. But Gil is right, a win that doesn’t give you a good feeling. Thanks Billy the choke Wagner, for ruining a good evening.
Thank you Carlos for saving this one. bittersweet is better than wormwood. I will take it.
A bittersweet win is always better than a terrible loss…
That being said… Wagner is still a dumb redneck… and he owes Pelfrey his fricking soul for blowing that game tonight….
for once in my life, i feel genuinley sorry for mike pelfrey
Billy should let Mikey punch him in the face for that waste of time last night. I was like “Holy—- this game is flying by..” then Billy keeps it alive. Even my wife who hardly knows anything about baseball (other than what I explain to her) now knows the Mets’ bullpen M.O. is to choke. She calls it before I do. Go figure.
You know the Mets have problems when your spouse starts going Metrodomus on you about how they are doomed when they have an early lead.
Besides the gas prices, I didnt even want to go San Diego last weekend because I thought they would loose.
I will never give up on the Mets. I still think something is going to click for them soon probably after the ASB. I certainly do not go out of my way to listen to them on the radio.
By the way if anyone watched COX 96 can relate when I say Tony Gwynn and the other guy are the most boring baseball announcers I have ever heard. Poor Tony, what a nice guy (man has he put on the weight).. but the two of them make baseball hurt to watch. No wonder why no one goes to the San Diego games. This whole series made me really appreciate the three stooges that the Mets have calling their games.
We also get the Angels games here for from FSN (which hopefully they will be showing those Met games)..Lets just says those announcers are not much better. It’s a good thing those Angels a playing well.
Finally we get Dodger baseball. I forgot that dudes name but he really needs a sidekick..It’s almost like listening to golf..”I did not think anyone even watched golf anymore.” But that guy talks and talks and talks..it’s exhausting just to listen.. Don’t get me wrong he pulls out the strangest baseball facts about a player I ever heard. Without these random facts about each player, this dude would seriously be hurting. Props to who digs those up. After watching a Dodger game I feel like I have a Doctorate in the 20th Century History of Baseball.
on Wagner…..let’s remember that before Sunday’s game he had given up a grand total of 1 run.
Nobody is perfect…..but his timing this week has been bad.
His last 2 outings his slider has been flat and his FB command has been poor. It won’t last.
on Reyes…..if you look at his projections he is on pace to duplicate 2006.
If 06 #s are not good enough I don’t know what to tell you.
on changing managers…...the mets FO looked back to see if there was actually evidence that changing managers made a difference…..statistically it does not.
Get over that Willie played for the Yankees (if that is your beef)...
on Pelf…...it finally looks like he is not afraid to throw the ball over the plate….hope it continues and the Mets find a way to get him some wins…he could be 5-5 right now.
on Beltran…...he has a no trade clause and will not be traded…..accept for HRs he is on pace to match his career #s. His has won 2 gold gloves and 2 silver slugger awards as a Met as the best CF in the NL the last 2 yrs. If his interest in being a Yankee for a couple hrs 4 yrs ago is your problem…..get over it already.
He, DW, and Reyes are not the problem. No production out of 5,6 holes w/Alou and Church out is the problem.
I’m delighted Wright is hitting .424 against lefties. The problem, though, is that 75% of his ABs are against righties, against whom he’s hitting .225. Did you catch his AB against Pena last night? He’s getting overwhelmed by righties this year, largely because he appears to be trying to pull everything.
The last time Wright’s BA was over .300 was on April 23.
And, finally, you shouldn’t be comparing 25-yr-olds with their career averages: They’re still in the process of establishing themselves, still on that upward career arc. If anything, they should be looking to surpass career averages until about age 30.
Oh, the Mets won yesterday? I told you guys to wake me up when they win at least 8 or 9 in a row!!!! You know, I am so sick and tired of turning points of the season, and hearing that this is what you got Santana for. The way this team has been playing, they’ll win 5 in a row then go out on the road and lose every game. Sheesh.
Tiff, I did not compare Reyes or DW to their career #s. I only did that for Beltran. I compared Reyes to his 06 season.
Despite DWs issues with RH he is 10th in RBI and is on pace to match his #s from the past 2 yrs accept BA.
He is struggling w/the slider. he should hit a few first pitch FB. That will keep the picthers more honest about throwing one down the middle on the first pitch.
Joel Sherman notes that if Jose Reyes were on the AAA New Orleans team he would be the youngest player at age 25.
Kudos to the Florida Marlins. It looks like they are going to stick around it the race for the entire year. To bounce back like they did these last two games against the Phillies after their cold spell is pretty impressive. That is the blueprint that the Mets should follow..i’ll take a World Series championship every 6 years in exchange for enduring some losing seasons in between.
I cant wait to read JD’s comments on last night.
Last night killed me…
I’m still emotionally drained from last night. I feel so bad for Mike Pelfrey who came within a heartbeat of Mets immortality. I guess you could say I just wrote an ode to “what could have been” this morning on my own blog.
Dan: He’d also be the youngest on the Yankees AAA roster too and the second youngest on the Braves AAA roster. AAA is no longer the last stop for most top prospects, so it’s not surprising. By the way, some guy Luis Alen on New Orleans is younger than Reyes and Mike Nickeas is the same age as Jose.
Despite my issues with Randolph, and they have been detailed on this board ad nauseum, to hold a guy accountable for not pulling a pitcher after 110 pitches and not substituting a closer at the beginning of an inning is beyond ridiculous. A starter who is 24 years old and who had been lights out all night and a reliever who is making 10.5 million dollars a year. You’re telling me he can’t come in during an inning he must start the inning? I like Wagner but give me a fucking break here people. To question Randolph’s acumen based on those examples is insane.
There was also a report that Tony Bernazard is talking Minaya out of getting Kevin Millar because Millar was a replacement player 14 YEARS AGO! Are we serious here? I am beginning to believe that the real problem with the Mets lies with Fred and his special boy Jeffy. Both seem to be clueless on how to run an organization.
Continued gaffes not helping Randolph’s cause
By Ken Rosenthal
Updated: June 12, 2008, 10:25 AM EST
Even on a night when the Mets won, manager Willie Randolph lost.
Randolph made two more decisions Wednesday night that drew scrutiny from Mets management, according to major-league sources.
The decision on whether to fire Randolph rests with general manager Omar Minaya, and his status has become almost day-to-day, sources say.
The Mets chose to retain Randolph during a meeting on May 26 in which he met with Minaya, owner Fred Wilpon and his son, Jeff, the team’s chief operating officer.
Since then, the team is 8-8, and it had lost five straight games before defeating the Diamondbacks 5-3 on Carlos Beltran’s two-run walk-off homer in the 13th inning Wednesday night.
The Mets had taken a 3-0 lead into the ninth, but the Diamondbacks tied the score on a three-run homer by Mark Reynolds off closer Billy Wagner on a 3-2 count with two outs.
For Randolph, that was the fateful inning.
First, he allowed second-year right-hander Mike Pelfrey to start the ninth after Pelfrey had thrown 110 pitches.
Then, after a leadoff single by Stephen Drew, Randolph summoned Wagner, even though statistics suggest that Wagner is far better starting an inning than when summoned in the middle.
Since the start of 2007, Wagner has entered games 84 times at the start of an inning, but only seven times in the middle.
He is 44-for-50 in save opportunities when starting an inning, according to STATS, Inc. His ERA in those situations is 2.05 ERA, and he has allowed six homers in 88 innings.
When entering in the middle of an inning, Wagner is 3-for-6 in save chances. His ERA is 7.11, and he has allowed three homers in 6 1/3 innings.
Those statistics do not excuse Wagner for allowing the three-run homer by Reynolds. But Randolph’s choice of Wagner in the middle of an inning — combined with his decision to start Pelfrey in the ninth — left him open to second-guessing.
According to the New York Daily News, Randolph apparently was prepared to pull Pelfrey for a pinch-hitter in the eighth, but the pitcher talked him out of it.
“I started to go up there to hit, and they told me I was done,” Pelfrey said. “I was kind of mad at the time because I wanted to stay in the game and I wanted to keep pitching. He came up to me and said, ‘You want this?’ And I was like, ‘Yeah, I want it.’”
Pelfrey had not pitched into the ninth in any of his 28 previous career starts, and had worked at least seven innings only three times. Randolph could have lifted him after the eighth, or even the seventh, and Pelfrey still would have had reason to be happy with his outing.
Instead, Pelfrey allowed the leadoff single to Drew, and the inning crumbled. The Mets rebounded, but Randolph remains an issue, as does management’s indecisiveness on his status.
“The players have the look of, ‘Hurry up, let’s get this over with. If you’re going to fire him, fire him,’” says one rival scout who saw the Mets this week.
“There’s not the desire to save the guy’s job. They realize the guy is going to go. It’s like, ‘Hurry up, let’s turn the page.”
Agony, oh agony. I see so much mysery here!! The official suicide watch is on!!!