Shameful …
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- June
- 10
The Mets should be ashamed of how they handled the Ryan Church situation. On all levels.
Church said he told the team he felt he could play and absolves the team of all blame. He’s being the good soldier. And, don’t forget, he was thinking with a head injury.
I asked Omar Minaya, sarcastically, I admit, where Church got his medical degree so he could make such a decision. The Mets weren’t happy with the question and told me so, and my response was to tell them I still thought they mishandled the situation.
I even got a nasty e-mail from someone, asking who I was to question Minaya. Whoa. I am supposed to question authority in my business and not drink the Kool-Aid. Of course, I haven’t gotten an apology email from that gutless wonder.
Fact is, they never should have flown Church to Colorado. They should have never put him in the situation to make a decision. They should have known after the first concussion not to fool around. He should have been on the DL immediately.
All this you can find on this blog’s archives at the time.
If what the Mets are saying is true, that the doctors said Church was all right, then those doctors should be fired, and I mean RIGHT NOW.
Inexcusable.
Then again, why weren’t the Mets smart enough to get a second opinion? For that matter, why didn’t Church’s agent? How about acting in the best interest of your client?
Willie Randolph said concussions weren’t common in baseball and little is known about them. When I asked if the team didn’t seek advice from the Giants, Jets or Rangers, who deal with concussions all the time, he said he didn’t think so.
Well, why the hell not? And, by the way, plenty is known about concussions. Also, while I’m in full attack mode right now, how as manager can you not know what the front office is doing regarding your best player so far this year?
If you don’t know, then ask somebody who does.
Minaya is at fault for not making the DL decision earlier and not seeking a second opinion. Randolph is at fault for not benching him completely. The training staff is at fault for not insisting Church should sit or finding out more.
The Wilpons are at fault for letting this nonsense go on underneath their ownership.
And, while we’re at it, the players association is at fault for being asleep at the switch. They make a big stink out of limiting the testing for steroids and even suggesting collusion in not signing Barry Bonds, but when the health of one of their members is at question, where is Don Fehr? He’ll say this is a team’s business, but that’s bull. As a union, your first priority is to protect your membership.
The Mets got chippy when I and other reporters questioned what the team’s priority was, the health of the player or putting the best team on the field. Can’t see an apology coming from them, either.
Just dumb and arrogant from top to bottom. They should be ashamed, but I doubt they have that capability.
This entry was posted
on Tuesday, June 10th, 2008 at 3:25 pm by John Delcos.
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WOW, JD is on fire and POed…...I agree!
Make sure you find some fault with Jay, too. He’s been cruising for a bruising for some time now.
Great entry JD!
Well said!! Church might never be the same, its happened to many NFL careers.
So John, where did you get your medical degree??
If what the Mets reported is true, that the doctors gave Church the green light, then your anger is clearly misdirected. I agree that the doctors should be fired, but I refuse to blame the team for trusting the people they hire. All of us have to trust our doctors. That’s why we pay them.
It seems to me that you’re anger and dislike for Minaya and the Mets is at the forefront of this posting. You seem very desperate to assign blame, yet you’re simply handing it out to everyone.
My biggest issue is with him flying in his condition, and I’m not even sure how much a flight can effect someone with a concussion. I never got my medical degree.)
I will credit the Mets for not allowing Church to start a game for 12 days from the time he got hurt. Lack of medical education aside, it sure seems that they handled that part correctly.
JD, I usually feel you’re anti-Mets but this post was 100 % on target. From calling out Willie, Omar, The Skill Sets, the doctors Church’ agent and more importantly the MLBPA that cares more about the money players make than their health.
After watching Church fall face first after taking the blow to the head plus it was the second time in 9 weeks it happened common sense would tell you to shut the player down. But we all know common sense is lacking in Flushing
Bravo JD for showing some brass to the Mets, um, brass (LOL). While we are all admittedly not MDs it doesn’t take a ‘brain surgeon” (pun intended) to realize that Church should have been DL’d as a precaution. Oh and as for flights with a head injury, Mr Met, are you serious? High altitudes so wonders to your equilibrium (and not in a good way) and that is something every average joe should know.
And PS i don’t think any credit shouldbe given to the Mets for letting church sit for 12 days. those are 12 days a warm body could have been used in situations and needlessly weakened the bench by having a 24 man roster instead of 25 man. I heart the Mets, but I agree with John – it’s inexcusable.
funny how you are calling someone arrogant… you may have been right JD, but you come across terribly in this column. sorry man
Coop,
You wrote: “Mr Met, are you serious? High altitudes so wonders to your equilibrium (and not in a good way) and that is something every average joe should know.”
Well, I did say that letting him fly was my biggest issue with this whole situation, so to answer your question (I think) yeah, I was serious.
As far as ‘every average joe’ knowing about high altitudes and equilibrium, you can just call me the John Madden of Mets fans. As in, I’ve never been on a plane.
Maybe my first post was not worded properly, and John, I still love your work so don’t hate me :), but I think the doctors are the be all end all as far as where to direct the blame here.
Mr. Met: I don’t have a medical degree. I also don’t know how to build a watch, but I can tell time. In this case the Mets’ watch is like Belushi’s in Animal House. Set to a different time than everybody else. As far as trusting the people they hire, they had a neurologist consult with Church on the phone instead of suggesting he be re-examined. Maybe you trust your doctors, but that’s misplaced trust, or stupidity. Take your choice.-JD
Franco: Don’t be, man. I wrote this with passion. You don’t have to agree. If I’m wrong, I admit it. But, I know I don’t have to here. Cheers.-JD
Mr. Met: Can’t hate you. Can’t hate anyone who posts on this blog with courtesy and respect as you have.-JD
We get it dude. The Mets effed up on this one. They trusted the player when they should have trusted the doctors. Next page..
Ultimately, while the Mets management should have played the situation cautiously, concussions in baseball are a rare thing (note that Matheny’s injuries were diagnosed after the fact). There is very little precedent on how to treat concussions from the baseball standpoint, so they were forced in part to go by the feeling of the player. In addition, doctors were certainly consulted about the situation. If they didn’t think he’d be able to play it wouldn’t have. The Mets certainly took an aggressive approach, but should be given some slack.
My bad Mr Met – I read your post wrong. Here – have a beer :)
Thast a different john
JD—
I know you won’t divulge who sent the e-mail but my money is on Tony Bernazard. He is Omar’s lackey and probably has lots of free time on his hands since he doesn’t spend his time scouting and assessing minor leaguers.
JD,
Glad to hear it. Afterall, this is a great place to come to read and discuss all things Mets.
Being in the position that you are, you obviously know more about the details of this situation than the rest of us.
Alright, now my nose is turning brown. )
Coop,
Thanks, I think we can all use one right about now. I got the next round. )
By the way, are you the same Coop that posts on The Good, The Bad and The Ugly blog with deb and dingo??
That’s a great site.
Yup I’m one and the same – I also have my own site – click away on my name :)
I don’t have a medical degree. I also don’t know how to build a watch
Forgive me, but when I read this, I couldn’t help but think of Giuseppe Franco asserting that he doesn’t own the company. Inspiration can come from the damndest places.
you are 10,000% right. The way the Mets handled it was disgraceful, and they really should be ashamed. If I’m Wilpon, this is the last straw to firing Omar and Willie as a joint package.
Very cool Coop. Just added you to my bookmarks. Thanks.
Way to go JD! They have tried to come away smelling like a rose, but the whole situation stinks. The Mets are a bunch of bungling fools when it comes to their players injuries. They always try to minimize the severity of the injury no matter how bad it is. The said Wise was initially day to day. Same with Pagan. So sending Church out 4 days after his second concussion was par for the course for these guys.
Rub some Guiseppe Franco hair creme on Church’s head. Maybe that will cure it. Just kidding.
But while you are at it, rub some on OP’s head. Maybe it will cure his concentration lapses.
For those who asked about having a medical degree, that just shows you are recognizing the situation for what it is. Would you send your son or daughter to school on the 4th day after sufferring a concussion. Would you let your son continue playing the game after crashing over a fence and landing on his head and shoulder the way Pagan did? I mean come on, let’s be sensible about this. The fact that Church said he wanted to play means nothing. He’s an athlete and a competitior, of course he wanted to play. It fell on the Mets trainers and doctors to act on behalf of the health of the player, and the decision on whether he plays or not is up to those trained medical professionals and not the player.
sorry, typo… “you are *not recognizing the situation”
I am going to take this opportunity to offer my opinion on a related but somewhat different topic. The slide into second base to ‘take out’ the second baseman or shortstop as he attempts to complete a double play should not be allowed at all. The player should have to slide directly into the base AND the batter should be automatically called out if the runner sliding into second base overslides the base. This whole play is just so stupid I can’t understand why it is allowed to continue. Church’s slide WAS NOT CLEAN. He reached for the base with his left hand as he was sliding past the base and getting brained by Escobar’s knee and he didn’t make contact with it. If the stupid rule wasn’t so damn vague and weakly enforced Church never would have tried that stupid ‘break-up’ slide in the first place.
Solving this is really, really simple. You must slide directly into the base and you can’t overslide the base when there is a force play at 2nd base. If you slide off to the side or overslide the base both you AND the batter are out. Problem solved. Loss of excitement to the game of baseball : 0.
JD I agree with you criticisms but this is not an area the Mets had much experience with so I’m inclined to be a little bit more forgiving.
John Delcos: Do you have any idea if another baseball franchise (Red Sox, Yankees, Indians, Angels, etc) would have handled this better? Is it the same throughout baseball or are the Mets among the worst? This franchise had problems a few years ago with Reyes being continually hurt and questions were raised on how the Mets chose medical doctors. I had hoped they were fixed.
Right on.
It is unconscionable to say “well in baseball we just don’t know enough about head injuries”
I’m sorry, HEAD INJURIES???
GO FIND OUT.
I think the Mets are at fault but not to the extent you say.
First of all…he saw a neurologist yesterday (or today) and was placed on the DL despite having NO recognizable symptoms of PSS. Now…he says he doesn’t feel right…so obviously something is still off with him and it is from the concussion.
Now, here is where I disagree with you. I like Church a lot…the way he plays and what he brings to the team, and while I admire his or any athletes wont to get into a game and play, HE was the one ultimately responsible for telling the team if he felt ok.
He got the concussion and didn’t play, save for 4 PH appearances, over the next 10 days. He should have been DL’d immediately, particularly because it was his second concussion in 2 months…but he really didn’t play and was checked out by doctors.
He said he was FINE to play and had been symptom free for more than 48 hours….thus his comeback against LA on that Sunday night.
If you want my honest opinion, I think it’s the flying more than anything that has messed with him. It’s not good to fly with a head cold, so I can’t imagine flying with a concussion is good for you.
IMO, while everyone shares some of the blame, the only thing the Mets are really guilty of here is not overruling Church. Other than that…what could they have done? They put him through tests, he sat out and did really little, then came back and when he felt it again, sat out…and as I said earlier, the test he had yesterday or today didn’t show anything…meaning maybe Church felt perfectly fine, but after the travel out West…it started again to catch up to him.
That isn’t the Mets fault, particularly when nothing is showing up on the tests. If that is truly the case, then this is on Church to be upfront about how he feels. He’s not a 5-year-old boy, he’s a grown man, and while the effects of PSS can surely impact you, I don’t think it completely took away his common sense.
bravo
taylor: Church never reached the second base. Secondly, forgiving the Mets is mind boggling. Little experience but they have not a clue as to what is going on in football and hockey, not enough guts to ask two football teams and three hockey teams in the local area for any advice??? Not enough money to get a second opinion… ???? Church should also fire his agent if he has one immediately for not looking after him.
And this pronouncement that he said he felt fine Mike, but he couldn’t even remember his pinch hitting in Colorado the next day. That’s fine///// !!!!!!!! Wow…. The Mets went on the judgement of a guy who couldn’t even remember that he batted the night before… You find that acceptable…. Wanna buy my bridge to Brooklyn?
“shameful” just about sums up the ENTIRE Mets organization, not just the medical staff
Nice John!
I like the Hard ball questions.
I’ve been reading your work for years John. Bravo for your continued objectivity. People will never truly realize how difficult covering the Mets organization is unless they do so for a week.
Great post, John. Agreed on all counts. Keep up the fine work.
Who are you, Rick Reilly? You have a totally valid (albeit obvious) point but ruined it with your inane grandstanding, self-congratulation and vitriol towards the Mets brass (sensitive, aren’t we?). Your question was fair but the way you phrased it was obviously derogatory and you deserved to be put in your place; don’t go crying to your 500 readers about it. All you did was take a perfectly reasonable argument and undermine it thanks to your ego. Nice work.
Oh, and by the way – thanks for the linkage. Just noticed that. I’ll reciprocate.
Marc – IMO, John should be flattered to be compared to Rick Reilly, one of the few truly skilled sportswriters with cojones to ask questions and report angles that others don’t.
Church’s agent doesn’t care because it doesn’t affect his pay any. If Church was headed to free agency next year, he’d be all over this.
Similarly, Fehr doesn’t care about concussions because contracts are guaranteed once they’re signed. Just like the NFLPA never cared about concussions until they were taken to court by the families of those with serious brain damage. However, Bonds is a big deal because he could sign somewhere for big money, which would help the Players Association out. The MLBPA doesn’t care about the welfare of its players, just making the maximum amount of money possible.
Hats off JD. Its nice to see someone with cajones. The situation is an utter joke and is a symbol of how bleep backwards this embarrassing organization is.
It seems very little is handled well with this team.
“I asked Omar Minaya, sarcastically, I admit, where Church got his medical degree so he could make such a decision.”
“I don’t have a medical degree. I also don’t know how to build a watch, but I can tell time.”
uh, hypocritical much, john?
i agree with marc’s post verbatim. sorry john, im not with you on this one.
It doesn’t matter how the question was phrased. The point coming accross is totally valid and needed to be shoved in Omar’s face by someone. May be someone already did, but no one had written about it. Nice job, JD.
What does having a medical degree have to do with anything? You don’t have to trust doctors. Most people should but they make big mistakes. Malpractice is big business. Regardless, they did sit Church for a bit. So what, he fielded and took some hacks. He’s on the DL now. It’s not like he was bleeding through his ears.
I just appreciate that John is conveying the pissed off attitude towards the team that most fans wish they had the opportunity address. However, I would have like to hear something more smart ass like:
Why does the bullpen choke in games a lot this season?
Why does _ get a lot of playing time when his record does not show winning results?
Why does can’t the bats and the pitching work in the same game?
Why not trade _?
Where do you start to fix he problem?
How are things different this year than last year?
While thesemay seem rhetorical or stupid questions, they are questions that they manage to stay away from.
Marc, you couldn’t have been more right on.
JD, you must be from the same hack institute as Jon Heyman and Wallace Mathews. In essence, you were being a wise a$$. Typically, the wise a$$ gets a punch in the nose, all you got was an email, and you’re still complaining, but with some sort of righteous indignation.
Find another career, you ahole.
Just another example of the mismanagement that is running rampant throughout the organization this year.
I know everyone is pissed at the Mets so this post is the “best thing ever”. But where is Delcos’ medical degree? Why is he so much more of an expert than the medical staff and specialists Church saw? Did they have a concussion course @ RCC Journalism school?
Next time I’m not feeling well I;ll be sure to call JD.
Delcos, you can be critical but also you need to be respectful. Being a jerk doesn’t make you a hero. No one likes to be disrespected and you can agree to that seeing that you actually reply to posts here.
John- Great article. Frank, and to the point. When dealing with a head injury, everyone (including the Wilpons) should have steered clear of the “rub some spit on it and go play” mentality that exists in professional sports.
Keeping Church around and playing him when he “felt ok,” even after only discussing his injury on the phone (wish my doctor would do that!) only shows the desparation that the Mets felt in needing to keep their best player with the team and on the field, instead of doing what was best for him. Also, had Church begged out of playing, the media and fans would crucify him, and he probably knew that. Just because you are not bleeding, doesn’t mean you’re not hurt.
Now John… On to the future…
I think that wholesale changes are in order starting at the top- Omar is equally responsible for this mess.
The Mets need a manager with not only some “fire,” but also one who commands the respect of his players- unlike Willie, who received half- or no-hearted votes of confidence from most of his “guys” after last mnth’s Black Monday meeting.
If they don’t have the guts to let a guy like Wally Backman take the helm (whose show I feel is partiall on SNY to gauge viewer and reaction), then make every effort to bring back Bobby V, who won with lesser talent and works well with younger guys. Otherwise, It may take a guy like Jack McKeon to come in and command/demand changes. Even Manuel seems to command respect and demand performance more than Willie. Id be ok with him on an interim basis.
John, who would you pick as next manager of the Mets?
I also think that HoJo needs to be out as hitting coach, as these players are far to aggressive and sloppy at the plate. If appeasing Wright is necessary, keep him as a base coach, possibly replacing Alomar, whose decisions at 3rd are often befuddling to all. Nieto is safe, as he is the “ghost” coach on the staff.
Peterson is baffling, his work with some pitchers has been great, but others (Perez, Pelfrey) has not resulted in performance we want to see. Unless Leo Mazzone comes in, or they want to bring up Dan Warthen, I think Rick stays.
It was mind boggling to see Castillo get a 4-yr deal last year and, when healthy, he performs ok, but with several contracts coming off the books next year (alou, delgado, etc.), wholesale changes are in order.
John, you are on the spot…
What is your 5 step plan to fix the Mets?
Thanks,
Steve
PS: I just saw Brian Heyman’s article on lohud.com in which he writes “It was about 12:15 in the morning when Omar Minaya emerged from Randolph’s office and declared that the manager and his coaches are still safe.”
Uggh…
Again…I love Ryan Church and his talent and bulldog mentality, hurt or not. But the PLAYER needs to take a hit here more than the Mets…or the doctors, for that matter.
Unless the Mets are just flat-out lying through their teeth when they say the doctors “said he was ok” why should the team be raked over the coals when they were supposedly given the go-ahead?
When Church got hurt in ATL, he spent the night in the hospital and did not play (or show up?) the next night at the Ted. He PH on the 22nd, two days later.
Again, he should have been placed on the DL, which IS the Mets fault…but he appeared as a PH 4 times over the 10 days following his injury until HE SAID HE FELT FINE.
HE, RYAN CHURCH, said he felt fine. If the tests showed nothing at that time and he said he felt fine, are they supposed to just sit him on the bench???
Everyone is at fault here, but your crucifixion of the Mets brass for this is
1) over the top
2) disrespectful, as a professional reporter
Mike: gotta disagree with you comments about JD’s reporting.
Do you read the rest of the newspaper or watch the news at all.
All JD is doing is holding the Mets to the same level of scrutiny that we treat business leaders and politicians.
If sports is a business then it should be held to this same level.
I did read his article…and I’m not responding to his article. I’m responding to his admitted “sarcastic” comment to Minaya.
Again, all parties are at some fault here, but the majority lies with the player (who is not brain-dead…let’s be honest here) and, if the diagnoses were wrong, the doctors.
The Mets are trusting the player and professional medical people to direct them…so again, unless the Mets are flat-out lying about the results, JD is being way, way, way to harsh on the team.
I’m not saying they’re blameless, but I have seen NO other beat reporter harp on this as much as he has. And I’m not downplaying it either…head injuries are tricky and nothing to mess with…but the Mets aren’t Ryan Church’s father or conscience…he has a say, and if he said he felt fine, what were they supposed to do???
And Scott…while I’m not sure you meant it that way, I resent your question about whether “I watch the news or read the rest of the paper.”
What the hell does politicians and big business have to do with a guy getting a concussion playing a game? When I’m too sick to work (and I need to be VERY sick), I make the decision to stay home. If I’m fine to come to work, I go back to work.
My job doesn’t tell me when I return…I do.
Hey JD,
your thoughts on my post?
How about 5 ways to fix the Mets?
thanks
Mike my answer to you is what is wrong with JD asking hard questions. and yes his sarcasim is fine with me because the Mets are covering up just how much they botched the Church situation. Also I am happy someone is asking the hard questions.
JD is treating Omar better than the media treats our president and people think that is acceptable.
The prices for tickets are so high we as fans are entitled to
a team with competent management.
Nope. You’re not entitled to a damn thing. Get over it.
Scott,
You’ve got to be kidding me! Are you comparing an incompetent war-mongering numb-skull who sold a fictional story to the American public, costing us billions of hard earned tax dollars and 4+K American lives and 10’s of thousands of Iraqi lives based on lies, to make him and his cronies rich to a baseball player and a general manager?
That is one of the most moronic comparisons I’ve ever heard.
No one is forcing you to buy tickets to the ball game and you are entitled to nothing—in baseball or life. And it is one thing to ask a question and another to be obnoxious about it. Would you like it if your employer treated you this way?
Scott- You obviously have little knowledge of being a reporter then.
JD, who does a good job I might add, is a beat reporter for the Mets. He asks questions, gets answers and then writes it up. He is not (in job title comparison) Mike Lupica or Joel Sherman or Ken Davidoff. They are columnists…they are the one’s who write the opinionated pieces which drum up discussion.
If JD wants to be negative and a wise-guy on his blog, he has every right (though it gets a bit tiresome sometimes, other times funny). My point is, he ADMITTEDLY said he was sarcastic with Omar Minaya.
That is not professional in any manner and I don’t blame the Mets if they don’t want to answer his questions. Whether the team was completely wrong or is being accused falsely, Minaya or any other member of the team doesn’t have to answer that type of crap.
There’s a big difference between a hard question and one laced with sarcasm and tsk, tsks.