Going home
-
- June
- 9
Why is it they make you show up early at the airport and nothing is open?
There is a line outside the McDonald’s in the San Diego airport waiting for it to open.
Long flight home. Longer for the boys last night. I have thought all along they would get into the playoffs, but I don’t know anymore.
They can’t make a run and what’s worse is there are no signs they will be able to.
They obviously misjudged when they thought all they needed last winter was to land a stud pitcher.
They need so much more.
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on Monday, June 9th, 2008 at 8:20 am by John Delcos.
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I saw an item in Street and Smith’s Sports Business Journal the Mets have sold all but three luxury suites for citifield.
So the most important thing is doing well.
IMO, they are a .500 team based on the talent they are running out onto the field lately, some mental issues (pressing, etc.) and weak manager. And of course, a lousy bench!
the heart of the problem is they are missing 2 OFs, and 2 middle of the order bats (the 2 I have most confidence in to be “clutch”)
I know depending on Alou is risky, but no one could have predicted Chursh’s concussion problems.
So, if the pitching holds up (it has generally been good enough, and should improve as the year goes along), and the bats come back (and they retool the bench!), then there will be the chance for the team to go off on a bit of a hot streak, and make up some ground.
I don’t think they will take the division, but the WC is not unreasonable.
I would also like to see al line up of:
Reyes
Beltran
Wright
Church
Alou
Delgado (or whoever they can replace him with!)
Catcher (platoon, if Castro gets out of bed)
Castillo (although I really want him gone…)
I think it will help Beltran feel comfortable and produce, DW might relax having a couple of real hitters behind him, and Castillo will be fine down in the 8 hole, trying to walk every AB to clear the P.
At least with this lineup, there is speed up top, and 3 good hitters in the middle (DW, Church and Alou are all perfectly capable of hitting .300, with high OBP and power). And with 3 in a row, they can relax (particularly DW), knowing there is someone behind them to pick up and scraps.
If Delgado can continue this mini-resurgance, I can live with him (although I don’t expect it to last..) Or, sell “high” to the Al, and bring up Carp and Murphy to take over 1B, and be a 5th OF. Although I expect it will take a Delgado injury for this move to happen, and even then, Omar likely picks up a stiff like Hatteburg.
They should have at least 1 rookie in the everyday lineup IMO. How else are you going to break in new guys?
Stick—I think Wright’s all-world numbers against LHP have obscured how bad he’s been against righties this year. It seems like he’s trying to pull everything against righties and, more often than not, gets himself out (rather than making the pitcher work).
I wouldn’t mind flip-flopping Wright and Beltran, as it has seemed to wake them up in the past. But, the larger question (to me, at least) is how your #3 and #4 hitters can sleep walk through one-third of the season like this. I’d like to see someone blame that one on Omar.
As for Castillo, he’s doing about as well as expected. His OBP is about 30 points higher than league average and he’s on pace to steal 30 bases. I think one of Willie’s many mistakes this year was trying to hide that high OBP in the number-eight hole.
Have a safe trip, JD. How do you pass the time on long flights—what’s your reading material, or do you watch a movie?
Sleep walking is a bit harsh Tiff. DW and Beltran’s numbers are not that far off from their career #s. Beltran’s HRs are down but everything else is in line. I would not be surprised that his knee is not 100%.
The issue is w/the lack of production from the 5 and 6 holes in the lineup (w/Church out). No Alou in the lineup is really killing them. You can’t expect DW or Beltran to get an RBI everytime somebody is on base. If they did, they’d have 200++/yr. That is why you need some production from 5 and 6. They are not getting it. And I doubt they will.
60-40 W-L is very unlikely. This team is home for October. Bring up the kids b/c you will need to see what they can do for next yr.
R H D T HR RBI W SO SB CS BA OBP SLG OPS
105 178 44 3 29 118 102 115 21 10 .281 .381 .496 .877
110 154 47 8 16 97 99 107 18 3 .257 .359 .439 .798
Wow. I am so depressed by this team. Yesterday’s loss was a killer. I don’t see any reason or any proof at this point that this team is capable of turning anything around. After all, they’ve been a .500 team since June of last year. And you can’t even blame Delgado!!!
We can’t blame Willie either, thats the hardest part.
We don’t have a bat that opposing pitchers fear. Its ridiculous and changes need to be made.We need at least 1 power bat, watching this team and these wack lineups being trotted out onto the field are now officially sickening.
Beltran’s numbers being down are a direct reflection of the lousy lineup that Minaya put together. He has no protection, just like 2005. While his average this year has dropped about 20 points his on base % is higher than last year which indicates he is not getting anything but crap to hit. Omar provided a # 5 guy who never plays and Beltran is paying the price. If you flip him and Wright will Wright suffer even more having less experience? I wouldn’t mind finding out since this set up is a total loss. But no matter who your clean up guy is, without any protection he will suffer.
The way this team is playing, Luis Castillo should be the number 5 hitter
Fire Omar!!!!!!!!!!!! Anyone else ready to join with the mob? lol
The Mets didn’t get any breaks this weekend. They are busting their asses and playing as hard as I’ve ever seen them play. They’ll start getting the breaks and they’ll go on a tear.
Fire everyone!! This team is a disgrace. I used to be able to watch this team get behind in a game and I would say to myself” They’re going to make a comeback ” now when I watch and they fall behind , its pretty much a forgone conclusion that the game is over. This team has no charisma, no fire and no leadership. I have lost all confidence in this team, it would take a lengthy winning streak to get back on track, and anyone who watches this mess we call the Mets on a daily basis, will tell you that its just not gonna happen.
Hey JOHN if you feel that way I’ll take any tickets that you have off your hands so they don’t clutter up your drawer. Sheesh. Why in bloody hell do people take this stuff so personally? This team may not turn it around, or they may, but if you’re a fan you continue to root for them. You don’t act like they broke a promise to you every time they lose a few games. Instead you act disappointed. Like “Too bad, they weren’t able to pull it out”. This teams busts their asses every play of every game. I think they will turn it around, but even if they don’t I’ll be watching.
Taylor,
I don’t think people are taking anything personally. I think that as a fan in New York we expect our team to be competitve
and have a good chance to make the playoffs, especially when the tickets you buy to see a game are not cheap and the payroll is 137 mil. I can only speak for myself but I’ve now seen the Omar Minaya regime for a few years now and he has not done a good job. He milked whatever farm system we had and brought in over the hill aging players that always get hurt or shot. If you think this team will turn this around than you are not watching the games. Again, this team has been a .500 team since last June of 2007. This is a mediocre team and it was built by Omar Minaya. Met fans expect to have an exciting team that will contend for the division, not an old team that has there money and has no heart, passion or guts.
Taylor: The Mets didn’t get any breaks??????
When was the last time you saw a team have a baserunner get hit by batted ball two games in a row??? That’s not a break????
When was the last time you saw a team have 3 guys hit by a pitch and not score a run that inning??? That’s not a break???
How about when the Pads couldn’t remember how to get a guy out on a rundown between 3rd and home. That’s wasn’t a break?
How about down by 3 and their runner goes from first to thirs with their best RBI guy coming up and gets thrown out. That’s not a break?
How about on Chavez’ bunt. Delgado loafing home and would have been out if Gonzalez had fielded the ball. That’s not a break???
If you don’t think the Mets gt breaks this weekend then I think you were lucky and missed the games. The Mets had breaks. They just did nothing with the breaks.
tomg,
I haven’t seen anyone on the team get shot but I’m sure there are a few posters on this blog who wouldn’t mind. :)
Taylor,
sorry taylor, wrong choice of a word. I meant that there better days are behind them.
“If you don’t think the Mets gt breaks this weekend then I think you were lucky and missed the games. The Mets had breaks. They just did nothing with the breaks.”
That’s a sign of a bad team unfortunately.
Tom—What’s the difference between this year’s team and last year’s? I mean, they were good enough to run away with the division last year; how did they get so much worse this year?
Taylor,
I’m not taking it personally, I am a diehard Mets fan, I literally watch every pitch of every game every year ( Thank God for Tivo ) I buy tons of Mets merchandise and I give and take all kinds of abuse year in and year out as it relates to the Mets. Being such a diehard SUPPORTER and FAN, I feel that the Met organization MUST put an elite product on the field, Yes, I feel like its my right to DEMAND an elite product, and when I dont see one on the field, I feel its my right to voice my complaints amongst fellow Mets diehards. Its not personal its about my devotion and enjoyment!!
Look..team unity is not something that is given. I played baseball my whole life including college and know that unity for a team is not given. With that said, it looks like this team just doesnt have the unity and whether you guys like it or not, the team prob will not change much.
I mean, can’t trade beltran – contract and new park opening up
Cant rush carp and martinez..look what happened to milledge
Delgado will be on and off the whole year, mostly off and unless we eat salary, no one will take him off our team
Our pitching staff is hit or miss..pedro you just dont know anymore..but he still isnt bad compared to the rest of the league, pelfrey still has to grow but has good stuff, santana is santana…ollie is well ollie and maine has looked as consistant as we have, besides santana..
look, its a mix of old and young players put together in a way that put $$$ ahead of winning…its all about chemistry as anyone thats played the game knows..and this team doesnt stink, they just arent a team…
I meant that omar put $$ ahead of unity, not winning, obv the goal is winning…also this isnt willies fault…no one knows what he is like behind closed doors, so i dont think we know enough to say much.
June 9, 2007:
Phillies 32-30 5 games out
Rockies 30-32 6.5 games out
Cubs 27-33 5 games out
June 9, 2006:
Twins 27-33 10.5 games out
June 9, 2005:
Yanks 29-30 6 games out
Regardless of how Wille is behind closed doors, we’ve seen enough of him to know that he’s not the right manager for this “team” as you said before this isn’t a “team” and he is at the helm. The chemistry just isnt there, alot of parts need to be changes and it starts at the top.
The Mets are not a bad team. I’m not being Pollyanna either. Lots of good teams lose games in which they get some breaks. Its not the sign of a bad team that you get some breaks and still lose. They still have some very good players. Beltran, Wright, Reyes, Church, Santana and Wagner etc. This is not a bad team. Every good team loses games where they got some breaks.
Tiffany, Do you honestly think the Mets can do what those those teams did last year? After watching the kind of team that we are, can you honestly say you have that kind of confidence?
Wow. Now I’m depressed
June 9, 2007:
Phillies 32-30 5 games out
Took over Mets due to the worst collapse in major league baseball history.
I’ll agree with John. This team has shown nothing that would make me ever think they were capable of putting together a comeback like that.
John—I don’t think the Mets can do it with Willie. I think there’s a disconnect with this team that goes beyond the popular theories of age and injury.
If I were GM for a day, I’d do two things:
1.) Change managers. They need to shake things up and recirculate the stale air that surrounds them.
2.) Use the depth created by last week’s college draftees to deal a package of prospects (two of Carp, Murphy and Evans, plus any other odds and ends) for a three-month corner OF rental. This player should be a veteran with a good clubhouse presence who can bring that I’m-here-to-win quality with him.
Tiffany June 9th, 2008 at 2:49 pm
“Tom—What’s the difference between this year’s team and last year’s? I mean, they were good enough to run away with the division last year; how did they get so much worse this year?”
HUH!!!!
Run away last year, this team had a historical collapse last year, they didn’t run away with anything. Thy couldn’t beat the Nationals or the marlins 2 games to clinch the division.
I’m confused. I know they collapsed over the last 17 games. But what about the first 145? Were they built only for 145 games?
They didn’t run away with the division last year. They had one west coast stretch where they won I think 10 games in a row to go over 15 games of .500 and after that they played .500 ball the rest of the year. The Phillies got off to a slow start but got better as the season went on. This is a team made up of aging players, delgado, alou, martinez, castillo, easley, wagner, and it’s obvious that there is no team chemistry. I truly believe in team chemistry and that is the personalities and make up of a player and this team doesn’t have it. If think this is willie’s fault and not Omar’s fault than I don’t know what else to sat about it. We all have our opinions and I am sticking to my opinion that Omar has done a bad job constructing the mets. Two years ago the national league as a whole, teams were rebuilding, especially in the mets division and that is why the mets ran away with the division. The mets should have beaten the cardinals but the injuries to sanchez really hurt the mets plus they choke when it came to getting the big hit when they needed it.
To me, this is the worst 137 million dollar team ever constructed but lets blame willie. It’s willie’as fault that the players are not playing well. I can understand people blaming Willie for game in situations that leave you scratching your head but the bottom line is the players play the game, not the manger. I’ll admit that this team needs a change but I don’t think changing the manger is the solution to the problem but saying that it’s easier to replace a manger than the players.
Here is something to think about.
Every body talks about steriods think about the fact that amphetamines have been banned.
Keith Hernandez made a point during yesterday’s game about how he was working out in the hotel and the team’s strength coach told him that he ( the coach ) was exhausted from the crazy travel schedule.
Kieth was shocked that the strength coach who he thought was in better shape than any of the players would be tired.
I have to think that many players on the team are tired.
The Mets travel schedule for the first three months has been nuts. Next week they go back to California and Colorado.
Even rock bands who travel the country do not book tours this way.
After August 5th the furthest west the Mets go is Pittsburgh and Milwaukee.
If they can stay close in Wild Card till August they still have a chance for the playoff.
I guess I just want to be an optimist today.
The 2007 Mets spent 140 days in first place. They were as much as 21 games over .500; their biggest lead was seven games; they were never more than two games out of first place (back on April 11). Their longest winning streak was 5 games. They held sole possession of first place from May 16 to September 26. So, was that team constructed only for the first 145 games?
As for whether the players play the game, yes, they do—but it’s Willie’s job to get them to perform. You want to give me a list of players currently performing for Willie?
I dont buy the “I’m tired argument” yes, I’m human and I know ball players are human as well, however , for the money that these guys make, ” I’m tired” just doesnt cut it, suck it up, earn your money and do what your paid to do ” Play Ball ” and WINNNNNN!!!!!!!
Tiff: I don’t think you’ll get much of a disagreement here that Willie needs to go. But like we’ve been talking about on the other thread, Omar has to take a big hit for the way the roster was constructed.
Tiffany-
No offense..but huh???
Package whats left of our prospects and our good draft for a rent a player..
Everyone..this is why people are paid for being general manager and coach..they might know what they are doing…these people are not idiots..and i love the people on the board..no offense, who think they can run the mets…no hard feelings..
but
were not trading prospects
Were not going to fire willie in the middle of the year
and delgado is here to stay this year
sorry folks
tiffany,
being 7 games ahead last year for most of the season is not running away with the division. I’m not sure what you are trying to get at but willie was the manager when they were 21 games over .500 so was it willie’s fault they were 21 games over .500 or was it willie’s fault they played .500 ball from july to september.
Just a week ago it looked like they had turned things around. Sigh….
Dan, I think your wrong on the Willie factor, if this team has another week or two like it just had, Willie’s a goner, mark my words. Both Omar and the Mets organization as a whole have a track record of trading away prospects, dont be surprised if that happens again this year before the trade deadline, ” sniff sniff” Do I smell a Nady trade in the works?
Tiffany,
I think I get what you are saying and that is the team stinks because they won’t play for willie. I think a manger in general is over rated. The old saying is the cream rises to the top and the s@@t flows downward. Sure the easiest move would be to fire willie and shake things up but I’ve seen enough of this team now for the last 162 games to know bringing in another manager is not going to change this team to cream.
Tomg , it would be a start though!!
JOHN,
I don’t see the mets getting nady, the pirated GM already went on record to say that he wants young pitching prospects which to me are more valuable than a nady or anybody else. I also read that the pirate gm asking price for nady and bay were through the roof.
John..i’m gonna hold you too that..haa….
I know they have a track record of trading prospects..but honeslty…i think they willkeep the prospects they have..
they want to have santana, reyes, wright, beltran, and wagner around for the opening of the new stadium so with that core, i dont think trading prospects is a good idea…
plus with alou and church, its not like they are going to trade for corner outfielders..
they need a bench and a reliever.
i can see heilman leaving but i cant see prospects being traded
Its on my wishlist!! lol
By the way the offense and defense/pitching have been equally average. They are tied for 8th/9th(w/Reds) place in runs scored with 290 and they are also tied for 8th/9th(w/Giants) in fewest runs allowed with 288.
Yes, don’t get me wrong here, the mets need a change, without a doubt and the easiest thing to do at this point is to fire the manager. I strongly believe if Willie does get fired than Peterson should go with the rest of the staff.
Taylor: Yes, and this week they sucked it up. Do you know what that makes the Mets? Answer: A .500 team at best.
What kind of ” through the roof” are we talking about? If I were GM for a day, just about anybody on this “team” would be expendable, wright + reyes are obvious untouchables.
John,
Young pitching prospects.
Dan,
I think we can safely say Alou has no future with this team or the national league for that matter. I know he’s here for the rest of the year, but I have no confidence in his ability to stay healthy from now until playoff time ( if we make it ). Its a shame , the guy is a great hitter but not much else.
Dan—What do Nick Evans, Daniel Murphy, Mike Carp and Ike Davis all have in common?
1.) They are all Met prospects (I’m assuming that Davis will be signed)
2.) They all project to be 1B/corner outfielders
Even if they all panned out and became the next Danny Tartabulls, there’s not enough room for all of them. Suffice to say, someone in this bunch is going to be traded, especially if the Mets envision Fernando Martinez playing one of their corner spots in the future.
The main difference between last year’s team and this year’ team is that last year when the old guys got hurt we young guys who were excited and exuberant to play for a while. We had Milledge, Gomez and Gotay and they weren’t real good but they hustled and made the team alive. This year we have replacements who are pathetic older guys, run down and worn out and they’ll give you one hit and they are done as the originals. We also have no 8th inning guy this year. Last year Heilmann was pretty good for the most part. Sanchez is mediocre this year and what can anyone say about Heilmann. Last year Delgado provided protection for Beltran because it took a while for the league to accept that his skills were really gone and then Alou had a big September. This year he has no protection and he’s hitting like 2005.
John i agree.
my point was the we are not going to trade a prospect for an outfielder to split time with alou this year
I do agree alou is gone after the year..but with church and alou in the outfield and martinez in the waiting..we arent trading prospects for positions other than pitchers..maybe second base (since we drafted one .the ss kid who will be a second baseman)..and maybe catcher..since Pena may or may not turn out to be a starter.
NADY, NADY ,NADY !!!
Tiffany
i see your point, but you cant trade one of them without knowing that one of them is for sure going to be a major leaguer..thats the only reason I cant see them being traded in the near future.
Any thoughts on the possible return of ” The Stache’” Valentine.
Steve, I’m well aware that the Mets are a .500 team right now. They’ve scored and allowed essentially the same amount of runs. I just think that is underperforming their true ability level. That is based on projections of their career stats with age adjustments (down for older players, up for younger players). My point in making that post is that the starting pitching has not been that good. From a lot of the posts you might get the impression that the pitching has been pretty good but the offense isn’t scoring enough. That’s not the case. Both have been completely league average.
“Use the depth created by last week’s college draftees to deal a package of prospects (two of Carp, Murphy and Evans, plus any other odds and ends) for a three-month corner OF rental. This player should be a veteran with a good clubhouse presence who can bring that I’m-here-to-win quality with him.”
Who would you suggest? Dunn? A power hitter who begs his manager to bat 2nd, and a team apparently already loaded with young talent. Griffey might give you 2 good months if het hought he was in a pennant race, but on the other hand he might be as done as he looks lately.
Nady: The Pirates are as close to the Mets for the wild card. And their farm is in needed of pitchers. Not a match.
Thames or Ordonez from Detroit? I don’t know what they need. Maybe we could trade managers. They’ve obviously learned to ignore Leyland as much as the Mets ignore Willie.
I’m sure we could get Richie Sexson for nothing but I don’t think he plays the outfield.
And a question. As you say, these prospects are basically all the same guy so why would a team want 2 of them in a deal?
If the Mets scored more runs the starting pitching would be better. It is a lot easier to pitch with a 3 run lead than a tie game.
Question has the Mets starting pitching this year been worse than 2006 ?
We know the offense has.
As far as Nady goes why would you over pay for a player having a career year who also over his entire career is a better 1st half player than 2nd half.
Also no way do you trade Evans, Carp or Murphy.
Why?
Do you guys remember Steve Reed for Jason Bay.
You could probably get Inge from Detroit for nothing if you pick up his big contract.
Scott, who said anything about overpaying. I say, get him if the price is right, and his” entire career” was mostly spent as a back-up ,platoon player a la` Church with the Nats. It wasnt until he came to the Mets that ppl really got to see what Nady can do when healthy and given ample playing time, again, a la` Church.
And I think Evans is expendable ( thats just my opinion)
So you trade the only one (Evans )who hits right handed when you have no other right handed hitters in the system.
Murphy , Carp, F-mart and Ike Davis are all leftys.
Nady is a righty as well.
hahaa John..i think if it was up to u
evans would be gone
Nady would be here
And valentine would be manager
Am i Wrong?
Here is the best reason I want no part of Nady.
His agent is Scott Boras
I meant Jose valentine, but now that you mention it….....
I thought the stache reference was for manager valentine..ha
Scott, I don’t think thats true. I don’t think pitchers perform any better with a 3 run lead than they do in a tie game. There’s always a way to frame these situtations for whatever side of the argument your’re on. For instance you could say that pitchers bear down and concentrate harder in a tie game and they relax too much if they have a 3 run lead. I’m pretty sure it makes no difference at all. What matters is how good the pitcher is and how well he’s pitching at the time. The Mets pitching has been as disappointing as the hitting and I don’t think the hitting explains it at all. The hitters could just as easily say that they are always behind and its putting too much pressure on them to come from behind and so the poor pitching is part of the reason for the disappointing offense. I don’t believe any of those scenarios. Its about ability and how well a player is going at the time.
Its Jose Valentin. There is no ‘e’ at the end of his last name.
Isn’t F-Mart a righty? or a switch hitter?
Like I said earlier ” Fire Everyone”. Wholesale change is needed!!! axe Peterson, Willie, Minaya and Hojo. Bring Wally B. in, he’s paid his penance.
He’s a Lefty.
Taylor – Maybe Tiffany has the answer.
Two guys who will never manage the Mets.
Wally Backman and Gary Carter.
I will bet the house on this.
tiffany –
i agree with you on firing willie. (yes, it’s his livelihood we’re talking about JD, but it’s not as if firing him is going to be taking food out of his kids’ mouths—his team is not performing and hasn’t performed in over a year, when that happens you find someone else to do the job).
but i wouldn’t be so quick to trade 2 of 3 amongst Carp, Evans, and Murphy for a 3 month rental.
mostly because that assumes adding 1 player is enough to significantly improve this team…i just don’t see it being that easy (also Ike Davis isn’t a comparable prospect until he puts up numbers w/ a wood bat like Evans, Murphy and Carp are this year at AA—which isn’t to say i don’t think he will).
This mortgage the future for some “veteran savior” mentality is one of the things that got this Mets team in this predicament in the first place. Can we as fans for once live with the ups and downs of letting our farm system remain with the team (perhaps lose a year or two) but be good for the long haul with mostly home grwn players, with a few veterans sprinlked in?
Yeah, let’s live with them. Because every team needs four or five 1B/corner outfielders, right?
“NADY, NADY ,NADY !!!”
In case you have noticed John, the Pirates are now ahead of us in the wild card. They have more of a chance to be buyers than we do this year.
Listen, please. You can’t make stake out of hamburger. You trot out the players you have. The mets right now are hamburgers. Managers get way to much credit when they win and to much blame when they lose. Joe Tore is like a God, but if you gave Willie or any other manager some of the teams Joe had they to would win those rings to
. Does anyone honestly think that a group of grown men making all that money shake in thier boots if Willie get”s fired? Do you think this team will put together a long winning streak because they bring in someone else. Nope. They will win if they hit, pitch and keep the mistakes down.
John, is the team quiting on Willie? If so, then thats a problem. If not, then all he can do is throw the hamburgers on the grill and pray for stake.
Sorry, but anybody who thinks the Mets have any prospects to trade for a player even of XMan’s level is just over pricing the Mets bad farm or is dillusional. The Mets have maybe one guy in the system who could be above avg-FMart.
Other teams have stock piles of FMarts to trade for the likes of XMan or just about anybody else you can name.
The Mets are stuck with the lot they have. Only hope is that Pedro stays healthy and is effective, helps OP to keep his brain focused, they get something out of Alou and Church’s brain is not mush.
It just isn’t going to happen for us this year. I’ve known for some time now.