Mets Chat Room: Salvaging the trip.
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- June
- 8
Who would have thought it a week ago, that the Mets would be trying to salvage this roadtrip to San Francisco and San Diego, against two of the worst teams in the NL. That’s the case.
Willie Randolph spoke before the game about how he’s not worried about Pedro Martinez, but in just scoring a few runs.
Well, they put three on the board in the first. That should be enough for Pedro.
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on Sunday, June 8th, 2008 at 4:22 pm by John Delcos.
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three first inning runs?? Who kidnapped our beloved inept Mets? It will be enough for Martinez but will it suffice for Heilman?
Dan: Padres have bases loaded in the first and run in. Maybe three won’t be enough for Pedro.-JD
On the bright side, they won’t lose, 2-1.-JD
John both you and I got as arrogant as the owner of Big Brown (is he giving carriage rides in Central Park yet)? Right now Endy Chavez’s arm is saving us from losing.
The Pads had guys hit on the base paths by batted balls two days in a row, didn’t score in an inning they had 3 guys hit by a pitch, blew a run down play to give us bases loaded and none out, had a guy thrown out at 3rd down by 3 runs, and it still doesn’t matter. You know the old saying. Bad teams find a way to lose…. The Mets are an officially bad team.
A special today: Luke Carlin and the seven runners you can’t throw out on TV…
Four runs will be enough for Pedro. I hope.
I see the Phillies swept Atlanta in Atlanta. Something the Mets dream of doing. It looks like the Phils are going to run away with the eastern division of the national league.
tomg yes the Phillies will (and are) running away with the Eastern Division. I’m already looking at the Wild Card.
The Mets can’t do anything right this season. The Padres proved there a bad offensive team by scoring 2 runs a game the first three games of this series and the mets couldn’t score runs. Today the Padres are smacking Pedro all over the place when the Mets finally score some runs. This met team is a bad team and thinking they will make the wildcard is funny.
You can look at the wild card as long as want to but you won’t see the mighty mets in it.
At least one “Mets” team is scoring runs.. Today against New Britain, the Binghamton Mets put up a 17 SPOT. They scored 17 runs on 17 hits, thanks to big days from Mike Carp, Nick Evans (3-5 2 doubles), Emmanuel Garcia (2-5 HR 5RBI) and Daniel Murphy (2-4 double 2 RBI).
Mike Carp had the most impressive day going 2-for-6 with 2 three-run homeruns. Yeah that’s 6 RBI’s from one guy. Double the amount of runs the Mets have scored in their previous three games. Carp’s now batting .351 with 9 homeruns and 38 RBI on the season. Not to be forgotten, Daniel Murphy is hitting .325 with 47 RBI.
O, and the line for New Britain’s starter Jay Rainville today; 1.2 IP, 10 Hits, 11 ER. 7.6 ERA on the season. Ouch, babe.
Carp, Evans and Murphy are all legitimate hitting prospects, but they all project to be 1B-OF types (especially with Wright ensconced at third), a position now further saturated with the drafting of Ike Davis last week. You have to wonder whether one or two of these guys might be dangled as trade bait before the July 31 deadline.
Does the big league team get credit for half a win or something when a minor league team scores 17 runs?
Hey Guv: That line went over well here in the press box.-JD
Glad to help you guys out!!!!!!! Covering this club has to be tough this year.
Wait it’s not over yet..
Another “Mets” team, the St.Lucie Mets, put up a 14 spot today. Big game from Josh Thole who had a homerun and 5 RBI.
Five innings and 97 pitches. Is that it for Pedro?
Now we are in a contest to see whose bullpen is less awful. I vote ours, despite then having Heath Bell.
That’s it for Pedro. He’s done. Ten hits in five innings. Not real sharp.-JD
Who is that guy, and what’s he done with Carlos Delgado?-JD
They secretly replaced Carlos’ coffee with new Folgers.
This camouflaged uniform the Padres has is to support the troops or to support the war??
They’re in support of the military-industrial complex Eisenhower had warned about.
Let’s just say it’s to support Democracy and human rights and leave it at that. metsdiehard you are for democracy aren’t you?
here comes billllllly the kid!
finally willie decides billy can go more than 3 outs
base hit right field..one run game, come on billy hold it here
bye bye mets win and possibly bye bye willie after another losing roadtrip…wow
When you really need a guy to do well, NEVER COUNT ON BILLY WAGNER…...
Democracy, human rights, apple pie, Chevrolet and push-up bras.
I believe I just busted a vein in my eye. I just don’t know how much of this I could take. Lets put this one in the (losers) record book.
Unbelievable … well, not really.-JD
I’m going to the game next Sunday. I’ve decided to wear a Michael Strahan jersey, unless they’re selling FIRE MINAYA shirts at the subway.
Bill Wagner should may practice his pitching and keep his mouth closed. Willie, thanks for taking Sanchez out. Wagner never does well in four out save attempts. The Mets are not working a the team they are now. Something needs to be done.
Yeah, this loss definitely gets pinned on Omar.
Sorry about the poor diction. I am just fed up with watching a team that finds a different way it seems to implode with each game. They are painful for any Met fan to watch at this point.
John- Is it not time to clean house? 7.5 back is not acceptable for a team with 137 million dollar payroll?
Willie, Manuel, Hojo, Peterson… I just think new voices are needed and message needs to be sent to this underachieving club.
On a side note.. Beltran is not a clean-up hitter…best suited to be a 2 or 3 hitter, but Willie would never think of switching him and Wright?
Minaya’s team…. Isiah’s team….
Both suck…. Isiah fired. Minaya next to be fired….. hopefully a lot sooner…..
God-awful, god-awful, god-awful, god-awful!!!!! Does this team remember they’re getting pay to win some game, not lose every games!! I can’t believe my eyes! This season is turning hopeless.
No, they fired Larry Brown first.
They fired Larry Brown and the team got better,????? Fire Minaya…...
Oh, I get it: They should have fired Isiah and left Larry Brown there because, clearly, Larry Brown wasn’t part of the problem.
I don’t know if Larry was better, but the pt guard killed 2 seasons. In season one when he quit on the coach the GM said dont worry. In season 3 when he quit on the coach what was the GM to say?
In both cases he got the coaches fired. Sorry to say but Larry was right. He wanted to blow up the team and they thought it was him. But the owner is a fool.
As for our team can we really blame the coach? We have one legit OF and no backups for the right side of the field. We don’t have a legit 4-6 in the lineup and only 2 pitchers reliably go 6.
Taking all this in can you really blame the coach? What are his options?
It is a long season and we can get better if certain players stay healthy, but there are a lot of ifs.
dave
I tell you what, when your back-up catcher can’t get to the ballpark on time for a day game he knows he’s supposed to be starting, that’s an indication of something gone awry.
I blame the brain trust who brought in these ancient players who nobody wanted and who don’t have the make up to be winners. I truly believe it is time to blow up this team. The only players I would keep are Santana, Wright, Reyes, Church, Maine, Pelfrey, Sanchez, Wagner. I officially don’t like the make up of this team. That doesn’t mean I’m not a met fan because I will always be a met fan. I just don’t like the people who are running the organization and the team they put together. When I seen this team choke in 2006 against the cardinals I knew this team didn’t have what it takes. Than to see them collapse like they did in September was embarrassing. This team just keep getting more and more embarrassing by the day.
Game over, season over. No way Mets can go 60-40 the rest of the way to win 90.
The roller coaster org is on its way down from the 06 hights. Time will tell when the bottom is hit. Omar claimed to want to make the Mets contenders every yr. But with no FS and very few FAs available in the offseason, Citifield will be filled but only b/c it is a novelty.
Get this … Castro said he did not oversleep. He said he thought the game started at 4. Just plain stupid.-JD
I made a mistake before.. I said Carp had 2 three-run homeruns, I was wrong.. He hit a grandslam and a two-run homerun.
If Castro did not know what time the game was, he should be fined twice the normal amount. Do these prima donnas need to be coddled to the extent that someone has to check on them constantly like child day care??? Certainly looks like there is a lack of leadership, a lack of respect of leadership on the player’s parts (or some of them), or, both.
I would love to see how these very well paid individuals would start playing if their salary was purely performance based. A lot of them would be getting better faster, and, would take more stock in blowing a lead, or, not runnning a ball out to make the play close at first. There is no real incentive for most of the established players to give real effort each and every day. I know none of the above will ever happen, but, the way the game is played today is nothing like it was played twenty years ago, and, it is a shame.
Do you think the Mets secretly wish they could stay on the west coast….because it will be ugly when they get back to Shea. All the good feelings that started to build from their little run are GONE!
http://www.myteamrivals.typepad.com/mr_mets_daily
I think a managerial change is a better option than blowing up the team. Historians can think back to 1990, when Davey Johnson was fired with a 20-22 record. His replacement, Bud Harrelson, seemed to be the perfect, short-term antidote, winning 71 of the final 120 games. Their 91 wins that year would have qualified them for a wildcard, had one existed.
Is Jerry Manuel or Ken Oberkfell the long-term solution? Who knows? But, at this point, I’d give either of them a better shot at jump-starting this ship than the current office holder.
Well, maybe Castro just doesn’t understand the concept of time zones. It was a 4:00 game, in NY!
Bud Harrelson was great the first two montjs but the team played .500 baseball after August 1st, essentially what they dud under Davey (although in his last week he was changing his mind everyday on things like how much Barry Lyons would be playing).Maybe it’s time to give Gary Carter a call, now that he’s on the set of the remake of “F Troop” playing Crazy Cat of the Hekawis. Maybe it’s “Bobby V Take Two” time.
At least they had Wagner in to blow it, As Yogi said when he started Seaver in game 161 in 1973 “If you are going to get beat, get beat with your best”.
I am not sure changing managers will really help, (short term maybe). The problem is the players; too old, too injury prone, poor relief pitching,only two solid pitchers (Santana and Maine…Martinez may have seen his better days, sadly).I really am starting to wonder if, depending on where we are at the trading deadline, if the Mets shouldn’t be sellers and try to unload some established players to try and bring back some promising youth. Problem with that though is other teams can see what kind of production (or lack of)they will be getting, thus there won’t be much in return. Bottom line…it’s a mess right now.
http://www.myteamrivals.typepad.com/mr_mets_daily
I don’t think that changing the manager will help right the ship right away. If the answer is Manuel, I wouldn’t bother. If we are seriously going to try fix this, then I would give a lot of serious thought to cleaning house. BUT, Omar needs to go first. I don’t want him making any more decisions in regards to this franchise. I’d love to know what the Wilpon’s think of all this.
hey everyone…i’m back in LA after my highly enjoyable weekend down in San Diego watching the Mets crap the bag 3 days in a row (but on the bright side, at least i opted to only go down for 3 games instead of all 4).
have to say, it was just as ugly in person as i’m sure it was on tv.
at this point i also believe that a serious overhaul of the roster is needed. i just don’t think that a new manager will get this group to play any better than the current one does (not that i’m opposed to willie being replaced).
personally, i think everyone but wright, reyes, fmart, church, santana, maine, and smith should be all made available. and even though some of their “ballplayers” won’t fetch much, we should be happy to get back 30c on the dollar if it means getting rid of them.
i admit i was fooled, i had really begun to believe that they had turned the proverbial corner with the series wins over florida, la, and sf…but apparently all they did was turn the corner and run smack into a wall.
well, in the immortal words of our president…
“fool me once, shame on you. Fool me—you can’t get fooled again.”
I just got back from my 6 hour drive from San Diego. I witnessed the last two games. For those of you who watched from home, and think you are frustrated, imagine having to walk the 2 miles to where your car is parked, and have to hear the stupid padres fans taunting on top of it. tomg-you win- I cant defend this team anymore, they are just a tease. How many baserunners is Beltran going to leave in scoring position before they move him? Maybe its time to move him out of town. I am sick of him already.
Bud Harrelson was a lousy manager—but, as lousy as he was, he’s illustrative of how a managerial change can turn a team around, even when the new manager is suspect.
And don’t worry about Barry Lyons; the real story of that 1990 season was Harrelson’s curious decision to start Julio Valera over Ron Darling during the middle of a pennant race.
TheGuvlovestheMets – Sell “Fire Minyana” t-shirts on your own.Why wait for somebody else to do it? Even better start a petition online. IMO if Willie gets fired so should Minyana. He put the team together for Willie to manage.
Tiffany – This team is flat. Too old, Too nonchalant, No fire, No passion.Disassemble and rebuild younger, hungrier and passionate. The experiment of trading prospects for over the hill veterans is not working.
I was being sarcastic OS.
You can fire Willie and maybe you’ll get a spark, but I doubt it will be a two month spark like Harrelson got. You need young guys to spell the vets, and we don’t have them anywhere. We broght up one kid and declared the experiment a failure in 24 ABs. So now we have Abraham Nunez to help out instead. That is why its Omar’s fault that we are bad. We have Damion Easley,a full decade after his single solitary good year, batting 5th, tht is why it is Omar’s fault we are a bad team. You can say its not Omar’s fault Alou is hurt, but it is Omar’s fault for thinking Alou and Hernandez and Pedro and Delgado and Castillo would defy history and the aging process, and give you full seasons with 1999 production numbers. You can say its not Omar’s fault that Church is hurt, but it is Omar’s fault for having the manager play short handed for weeks on end.
Tiffany: I’m pretty sure it was him over Bob Ojeda, but who’s quibbling. lol
Harrelson didn’t have any young guys or new additions sparking his team—the change in managers was enough.
But I have to admit that it’s Omar’s fault that Wright and Beltran aren’t getting the job done this year. It’s Omar’s fault that Oliver Perez has regressed. It’s Omar’s fault that Aaron Heilman has turned into a basket case. It’s Omar’s fault that every ball hit to Jose Reyes has become a challenge. It’s Omar’s fault that Ramon Castro can’t get to the ballpark on time. It’s Omar’s fault that the veterans are sniping at each other in the press. It’s Omar’s fault that the team has shown so little ability to come back once they fall behind. These are all things that fall under Omar’s domain as GM.
But it is Omar’s fault for: Relying on Pedro, relying on Alou, thinking Delgado was capable of a resurgance, counting on El Duque to round out the staff, not having a backup plan for the inevitable Alou injury, etc..etc..etc. I’m not going to bust his chops for his trades because all GM’s make good ones, all GM’s make mistakes. But he did count on quite a few iffy things to go perfectly and when they didn’t the team was hampered. There is enough blame to go around.
Steve—With all due respect, Pedro, Alou, Delgado and El Duque are not the core of this team. They are support players. The younger guys I cited—Wright, Beltran, Reyes, Heilman, Perez—are the core of this team, and they haven’t gotten the job done. Methinks if the young guys were doing their jobs, we wouldn’t be focusing on Alou’s hernia, El Duque’s arthritis or Delgado’s truss.
Tiffany: Yes, I agree with you. But Omar’s problem is that without the guys I mentioned, this team is not complete. I really think they were counted upon too much to be integral parts of the team. I mean big big offensive positions (1b and LF,) were counted upon. It’s very hard to put the pressure to produce on 3 players and only them. (Wright/Reyes/Beltran) No 3 players can carry a team throughout a year. As far as Heilman and Perez go, Heilman really hasn’t pitched all that differently from the first part of last year and Perez in the biggest start of last year, bought it against the Marlins. So I don’t know..i’m ready to blow up the whole thing. Ready to see what Beltran would get in a trade would be a start. And while i’m on the side of pessimism, why do I have a strange feeling that Fernando Martinez is going to go the way of Alex Escobar and Alex Ochoa?
These old guys were suposed to be the core of the team. The 5 and 6 guys in the lineup are key guys. church was advertised as a 7 guy. Pedro was going to be the # 2 guy in the rotation. # 2 to tke pressure off of Maine and OP, and El Duque was supposed to be # 5 so Pelfrey had time to develop. The younger for the most paert have done well, Reyes is getting better and better and Wright is going to have 115 RBIs. Heilmann wasn’t supposed to be a key guy with the return of Sanchez, and Beltran can’t get a pitch to hit with guys like Ealey and Tatis behind him.
To TheGuvlovestheMets – I agree with you that the shape of this team is Omar’s fault.He put the team together for Willie.
Time to stop trading the young blood for old veterans who get hurt a lot and produce with each passing year.It might take a couple of years with in house prospects before we see them winning a division, but with this team there are no assurances that they will get there either
The old guys are not the core of the team. In Wright, Reyes and Beltran, you have three All-Stars who should be carrying this team. Moreover, I’d argue that Church, another younger player, is more important to the lineup than either Alou or Delgado. If we had no questions about Wright, Reyes and Beltran, we’d likely have no questions about the Mets.
Oh—and if Pedro’s going to be the no. 2 guy in the rotation, that means your fourth starter—either Perez or Maine—is a 15-game winner. Nonsense. The three guys they were counting on in the rotation were Santana, Maine and Perez—all young guys.
Tiffany – Perez cannot be counted on. It has become a joke with him. You never know how he is going to perform. Do you truly believe that he will win 15 games. That’s insane. The rotation that is counted on is Santana, Pedro and Maine.
Tiffany: I completely disagree with you. Omar was counting on Pedro and if actually counted on Oliver Perez? Well shame on Omar. And again, NO team can rely on three guys to carry them throughout a year. In 2006 the team had great contributions at C, 1b, 2b, SS, 3b, CF, and up until he was traded, Nady in RF. That’s 7 out of 9. That is what kept the team an offensive powerhouse.
If you determine the keys to your rotation based on 15 game winners, then the downfall of the Mets was not keeping Trachsel after his great 15 win season in 2006.
Church may have become more important in the lineup then /alou Delgado but he was advertised as the # 7 guy when acquired because Minaya was counting on Alou/Delgado to provide adequate protection for the three big boys. How many games has he actually batted 5th? Why do you think the Phillies suddenly started winning. Rollins/Utley/Howard couldn’t put them over the top until Pat Burrell came out of his 5 year depression sometime last year and gave them extra heavy support and Rowand reached his potential or more. Three guys ain’t gonna do it.
Ollie is a certified head case, the worst part is, some team is going to pay a fortune for him in the offseason.
So, if Perez went from a 15-game winner to “worse than Pelfrey,” does that reflect poorly on Omar?
I threw out the measure of 15 wins to make it easy to understand; if you prefer, I can talk instead about ERA+, which would easily discriminate among Perez, Maine and Trachsel. It all depends on your preference.
Church has 65 ABs in the fifth position, 38 in the 6th position and 17 in the 7th position.
Pat Burrell’s 2005, 2006 and 2007 seasons are largely identical. And the Phillies have played largely identical through those three years. So, clearly, he’s the difference.
Steve—I’m not suggesting the team should be a three-man offense. Rather, I’m saying that Omar should have felt comfortable in knowing that his offense should be carried by his three, prime-yeared All-Star position players. You can afford to mix and match at other positions—like, say, Pedro Feliz at third base—when your young, prime players are doing their jobs. If Utley, Howard and Burrell all played below their abilities, I don’t think Phillie fans would be bitching and moaning about Pedro Feliz.
Any confidence in taking 2 outta the next 3 ??
John: No reason why they shouldn’t. The Mets are playing well at home and the D-Backs have been stinking it up lately as well. They are 6-14 in their last 20 games.
Yea, but doesn’t it seem like every time you start thinking that way, the Mets ending up being the turning point for another team or player, it just seems like when we get a struggling pitcher, a struggling team, they look like the next Cy Young winner against us or a first place team, I knwo is negative to think this way, but the proof is in the pudding, I’m pretty sure some of the stat guys in here can offer up some numbered support on this point.
1. You can use any stat you want to defend your position. That’s your choice. I actually agree with you that Perez was counted on. But Minaya bragged about having Santana allowed Pedro to be # 2 meaning he relied on Pedro more than Perez or Maine.
2. 65 ABs in the 5 hole provers little about the guy’s ability to be a key player. Sample size too small.
3. Burrell: You didn’t follow. He had a great second half which turned that team around. First half he had 8 HRs and 32 RBIs. Starting 1 July to end he had 22 HRs and 65 RBIs. At the same time, Howard had a much better second half as well. I’ll grant his numbers are skewed because he was hurt part of the time, but he still more than doublesd his RBI total at the same time that Burrell doubled his total. You really believe that the Burrell turnaround had no impact on the Phils???
Burrell’s OPS+ numbers:
2005 – 128
2006 – 122
2007 – 127
Philadelphia’s win totals:
2005 – 88
2006 – 85
2007 – 89
Philadelphia’s anticipated win totals via Pythags:
2005 – 89
2006 – 86
2007 – 87
Nothing on this page jumps out at me.
Regarding Pedro and Delgado, what do you expect Omar to say—_“These are old guys coming off injuries who’ll be relegated to lesser roles this year”_?
I can just see the manufactured quote in the team’s press release: _“We brought Ryan Church in to fill the role we no longer believe Carlos capable of…”_