Going over some of the comments again from yesterday about my suggestion to sit down Jose Reyes. I would say the majority of you are against my position, which is fine.
But, a lot of you brought things into the argument that weren’t there. First of all, this had nothing to do with Carlos Delgado. Reyes and Delgado aren’t linked issues here. Delgado is gone after this year, but Reyes will be here for the next ten years if not longer.
Nobody with the Mets is calling Delgado the catalyst for the offense. My argument, plain and simple, is that Reyes is important to this team, now and in the future, but he loses focus. He said so himself in spring training. My point was to get his attention.
It has nothing to do with being against younger players, or even Reyes personally. To conclude that is absurd.
Reyes has reached base in 27 straight games. That’s when you do it. It’s when Reyes goes well that he tends to slip into cruise control and make mistakes.
I believed, and still do, there are times he needs a wake-up call.
33 Comments
I don’t think it would be good. He’s trying. He hasn’t failed to run out balls or go after them full speed or anything like that. I think sitting him would just create bitterness and make him feel like they are picking on him.
By the way I don’t buy the ‘as Reyes goes, so go the Mets’. It helps when he does well just as it helps when Castillo does well or when Beltran does well or when Schneider does well.
These stats about the teams record when a certain player does well are silly. You’ll find the same effect for all the players. When the other team has a lousy pitcher going or when the opposing pitcher has a bad game everyone will tend to do well and the chance of winning the game will be high. It’s not specific to Reyes. He’s no more important to the offense than Delgado, Wright or Beltran.
Taylor: My thinking is the player they need most to get going, and this is from a power standpoint, is Beltran. I don’t think anybody expected Delgado to resume stud status and Wright’s numbers should improve. Beltran is the most puzzling to me.-JD
I’m sorry John. You are calling for benching Reyes when he is doing well so he will not stop doing well? Is that what you are saying here “Reyes has reached base in 27 straight games. That’s when you do it. It’s when Reyes goes well that he tends to slip into cruise control and make mistakes.”
His comment about focus was made in the context that he was going to try not to let that happen again.
You do not bench a player who is doing well. No more than a boss in the workplace would suspend someone who is doing well at their job.
The Reyes I saw at Shea last night was busting it on every ball he hit. That’s not a player who is slipping into cruise control.
Is it possible that Beltran might still be feeling the effects of off season surgery?
When you look at his OBP tho its not bad so least he’s getting on base. The problem is there’s no one right now to drive him in. He needs to be the one driving people in ahead of him.
My objection to your comments on Reyes JD was the use of the phrase “as good as it gets”. If you go to ESPN web site and look at projections you will see that Reyes is on target to reach his 06 #s. Yes I know they are projections and you don’t know if they will be what the numbers are going to be at yr end. But he is on his way to a very good season offensively. If you bench him he will probably sulk and be pissed off. I don’t see how that helps. He needs a kick in the pants once and awhile but that should come from a teammate not by benching. Unfortunately, there appears to be no leadership to do this. I stated before that Valentin should be brought back in some capacity. Just like it is believed that Robby Cano is suffering from a missing Larry Bowa, it could just be that Reyes needs Valentin around.
Wrights numbers are in line w/his careers #s.
As for Beltran, his numbers are in line w/career numbers too except for 2B which are up and HRs which are down. I suspect his knees are not 100%.
Ed, John has a point about Reyes play in the field. It really looks to me like he’s getting a little bit afraid of making a mistake or an error when the ball is hit to him. I think he just needs to play through that.
John, my thoughts on Beltran are that some of those doubles will turn into HRs as the weather gets warmer. He’s hitting a lot of doubles and he’s been walking a lot so those are positive signs. His batting average is only 15 points below where you would expect it to be. Thats really just a few hits. Its really just the HRs that are missing. Of course those matter a lot. HRs really help win ballgames. But I think they’ll come. I expect his SLG to be around .500 when the season is done.
Taylor – I do agree with your Reyes point. It could be that he is trying too hard. Of course, having people in the media calling for him to be benched isn’t going to help matters. And it is not just John doing this.
John
How does this:
Reyes has reached base in 27 straight games. That’s when you do it. It’s when Reyes goes well that he tends to slip into cruise control and make mistakes.
Tie in to this:
John Delcos
May 27th, 2008 at 7:01 pm
Scott: Nothing long term. Just for a couple of days to get his attention. Not one, because he needs to know this isn’t just a rest. Give him two. And do it after his next screw-up. If you do it now, he doesn’t get the message. Next time, pull him from the game and tell him at the time he sits for two and tell him why. His replacement? For two days, Damion Easley.-JD
So do they bench him now or after he screws up?
I don’t like the idea of benching a guy for an error because you think that he is not “focused”.
Couldn’t the same thing be said about Wright when he makes an error?
YearTmLgRCGPAP/PALD%BA/BIPGB%IF/FHR/FBA/RISPClutch
2004KCAL58.3104.016.3%.28138.0%N/A17.2%.3234.7
2004HOUNL65.2943.914.7%.24538.8%N/A17.1%.216-4.2
2005NYNNL91.2583.819.2%.29243.8%14.4%9.4%.2989.2
2006NYNNL125.3304.216.8%.26336.5%11.3%22.0%.3208.0
2007NYNNL104.2963.819.0%.28638.4%13.0%17.9%.277-0.4
2008NYNNL31.2773.922.8%.29748.3%18.6%9.8%.2630.5
Too bad these things don’t line up. I know this is really annoying to read but the reason I posted it is to show that Beltran is hitting to many balls on the ground right now. The 48.3% is his ground ball % and its the highest of his career. He’s a power hitter. He needs to think like a power hitter and get the ball up in the air. Not on the ground.
Wallace Matthews, is that you?
I thought only he could conceive of such a ridiculous idea.
Unlike most of the positional players on this team…
At least Reyes is doing SOMETHING. Dude’s hitting. Is he distracted in the field and punchy on the bases? Sure.
But he’s getting SOMETHING right, unlike most of these guys.
There’s nothing wrong with pointing out his issues… but singling him out? Dude is WAAAAAAAAY down on the list.
As for Milledge:
Considering that we’re on the edge of having to write off this season as a rebuilding year… which would you rather have?
A dude developing at the MLB level and practically bleeding potential… or an injury magnet and a no-hit catcher whose defense is regressing before your eyes?
I gotta take Door Number One, Monty, even as Milledge struggles somewhat through adjusting to being a full-time MLB player.
While Schneider races Delgado to the Mendoza Line and Church plays SO hard trying to keep playing way over his level to prove something and the Mets are SO blaise about his medical situation that they keep running him out as a pinch-hitter that… who knows how far he is to a real career limiting/life threatening situation?
I take the kid and the potential.
ESPECIALLY now that everyone has to face down that putting your chips on Alou, Delgado and Castillo basically forfeited the season.
Couple of things, get over it Milledge is not a dude developing at anything he is regressing.
On Beltran eeeeeeeeeeeassy, the guy has hit into more hard outs than I can recall any player doing over the course of the first two months.
Law of averages, his time will come.
Mike C, I watch the same games you do, but don’t you think you might be a teensy bit too harsh? While I agree with your sentiments on Milledge (did I think he would be a super-duper star? no, but i thought he would be a great player and someone who was not an automatic out), saying that these guys have forfeited the season is ludicrous. it is almost JUNE – not ideal to be 5 games back or whatever it is behind the “first place Marlins” but there is plenty of baseball left to play. Just like the rays aren’t meant to be in first the whole season, the mets aren’t meant to play this crappy the whole season.
No, the Marlins aren’t entirely for real. Neither are the Braves, to be honest, too old in the pitching and you know Larry will get hurt at some point.
But… the Philly hitting is scary for real.
In a ridiculously flawed division, they’ve got that and that ain’t going away.
So… sure. Marlins aren’t for real and either are the Braves.
But… the Mets are in fourth.
ALSO: does it REALLY say above that “when Reyes is doing well, that’s when he’s going to start being bad!”?
And that we should start an aging oft-injured secondbaseman who plays an ugly ugly short for two games to “rest” him, so that he doesn’t play so well that he’s playing back?
Shenanigans. I completely call shenanigans on that.
“It’s when he goes well that he starts to make mistakes”?
That’s a positively Karl Rovian statement.
Mike C – Calling Church an “injury magnet” and saying he got hurt because he “plays SO hard trying to keep playing way over his level to prove something” is absurd.
Could it not be that he wasn’t given a fair chance in Washington, and now that he is getting regular playing time he is reaching his full potential?
No, it can’t be that. It’s gotta be that he is playing over his head so you can continue to trumpet Milledge who is bleeding potential.
Wright makes errors on the field, but not on the basepaths. The ones on the basepaths are the ones that really hurt. Every player makes errors but to make this many baserunning blunders in so short a time sets off alarm bells. I would wait for another of those if I was going to sit him. Hopefully, we wont see any more for a long time.
Im with you, Ed. How can anybody knock Church? The guy has been the most solid, consistent player all year. I havent seen anything from Milledge so far, that makes me think he live up to the hype all NY prospects recieve.
I wouldnt just dismiss the braves LFM :)
I agree with some here that Jose may have an issue with a benching. Last year he tanked after Willie pulled him from doing some dumb thing.
As was also said there is no vet leadership here. Reportedly Valentine was very good for Jose. However, Jose has made some bad plays that have cost games in the field. He also has made the baserunning blunder.
I agree. He is young but he has been around enough to know what he needs to do.
In my opinion if you want your team to play the right way when your stars don’t do what they should you treat them like all the rest. That way there are no favorites and if they are mature about it they will see that they need to improve.
I can’t believe we are still talking LM.
He is hitting 250. The two socks guy is way better in power/avg/fielding than this future hall of famer who will put the say hey kid to shame.
Also the pair of boots defense only catcher recently had an avg of 290.
Other than a love affair with LM I do not understand this line of reasoning at all. As has been stated many times in the past few weeks at this point in the season we got the better of this trade.
LM may one day turn into a nice player, but he is immature and likes to blame others for his problems. I would rather have Church in RF because he is a better glove, has a good arm and can hit.
Ray – I think some of the baserunning issues are from Jose trying to do too much. He is trying to make something happen.
Beltran has made baserunning mistakes.
Wright didn’t run out a ball recently that would have been a double if he had. Reyes got benched for that last year. Wright did not. He did admit he messed up.
Ed is correct about Church who never got a fair shot at an everyday gig. His pedigree and minor league career always pointed to a .285 – 30 – 100 guy. His 45 doubles last season in the cavernous RFK stadium pointed to this as well. He is not injury prone, he plays hard like Jim Edmonds did and I’ll take that type of hustle any day on this team.
As far as sitting Jose Reyes goes, DO IT. The guy’s got the weight of the world on his shoulders in terms of pressure. He could use a day off.
To not rest a guy when he’s hot or not is completely overrated/ It has no basis in fact or any statistical data that proves anything on either side of the argument.
Willie just said on the FAN that Jose is not lacking focus, he is trying to do too much.
Supposedly, a good part of the meeting on Monday was about how to get things going for this team. Jose appears to be a bit emotionally fragile or sensitive; his struggles appear to date back to being benched last year. They probably have already tried therapy for Jose and they are probably following what the doctor has ordered; this is not at all unusual for a baseball player and Willie Randolph knows this.
Whatever your thoughts on Willie Randolph, I think we can agree that Willie knows how to play/coach the infield and he also knows how to push different buttons – think of all the style of managers he played under and worked with – remember it wasn’t just Torre. Willie spent hours and hours working with Knoblauch when he stopped being able to throw while he was in therapy. Teams try a lot of different ways to get their players “right” and Willie knows all of those ways when they are available. Read Buster Olney’s book near the end to get some insight into Willie’s experience coaching on the big stage. They’re sitting Delgado but you can’t sit everyone at the same time – especially when you have so many players on the DL. Delgado is getting older – Jose’s problems are more complex as is the career of a baseball player in NY. That’s why so many players – great players – choose not to play in NY and the hardest thing of all is coming up as a kid and failing.
Willie protects his players – and now his ownership – too much.
Jose Reyes is reminding me of Jimmy Rollins and how inconsistant his career had been prior to 2006 his 7th season in the majors and at age 27. One side nugget, Reyes has been a better OBP guy than Rollins.
I know Reyes has been in the majors for a while, and is in his 4th full season and 6th overall, but our expectations are just high for him, and whether they are fair or not that’s just the way it is.
Me, personally, I have faith in him, and although he has been in the league since 2003, he’s still in his 25 year old season and that’s usually when most normal guys enter the league.
Regardless, the time is coming soon for Reyes when the cross roads end and he decides what type of player he becomes.
Can we forget about Reyes’ age for a minute? He’s clocked major league time for parts of six seasons. It shouldn’t be all that hard for him to keep his focus when a ground ball is hit to him or not freeze on the bases. Hell, these are things a player gets taught early.-JD
JD, I have to agree with most of the others. I would not bench Reyes. You bench him if he’s tired and needs a rest or if he’s a little hurt. But otherwise, let the kid play, the way he likes to play. With all the handshakes and all. That’s him. And it won’t work trying to mold him into someone he’s not. I would take this all back if I were to find out there was some sort of negative outside influence dragging down his game. But otherwise, just let Jose be Jose.
Mike C: Injury magnet, LOL? Thanks for the laugh. Floyd, Hampton, and Alou are injury magnets. Church is just a hard-nosed player who often pays the price for his style of play.
No… you HAVE to consider Reyes’ age, his performance at age 20, when most guys are junior’s in college scews his career numbers. Start looking at his career numbers in his first full season at age 22 in 2005 and they look much better, and his career looks even MORE impressive if you start in 2006 at age 23, again, most guys are either just starting thier careers in the majors and in some cases aren’t even there yet.
Just go to baseball-reference.com and plug in random names, seriously, just any name you could think of, look at the performanes of these players from age 18 – 24 and then notice how different it is from the performance from age 25-30. It’s amazing. Take 5 minutes to do this and plug in random names. You have to keep things in perspective, regardless of how long he’s been in the league, he was up at a VERY young age.
I mean, there a guy who debuts in his age 25 season and hits .300 30 HR 100 RBI
then there’s a guy who debuted at age 21 and has career average numbers of .270 15 HR and 70 RBI. So after 5 seasons, he’s an average guy then he turns 25 and hits .300 30 HR 100 RBI, is one guy better than the other?
No, the second guy just had to make adjustments in the major leagues while the first guy had the luxory of doing it in the minors without the stress and pressure.
Another good example, Lastings Milledge, he’s not setting the world on fire and although this is his first FULL season, he’s experienced in 3 seasons already. He’s only 23 years old, I GAURANTEE in 2010 we’re going to see exactly what we expected from him. That’s when things are going to click.
Don’t consider his age, OK, we send an 18 year old kid to Iraq. He fights for his life for three tours, comes home finally at 24 and goes nuts acting like a kid doing stupid things. I guess we should say screw him because we made him a man at 18. Age is age no matter where you are. Some mature a heck of a lot faster than others. How do players get taught “focus”???? Do we have focus drill in PSL?
Yup.. they should totally bench him.
nope