I don’t see how not getting another offer is conclusive of anything relevant in regards to this discussion. For example, take Cito Gaston. He never managed again in the majors, yet he has back-to-back WS wins and a winning percentage as a manager. And BV never got another offer from a ML club after the Mets, even though he was open to it for a few years immediately after. So it’s an interesting question but not very relevant to the current Mets team.

i would like to think he has made a difference. I think he is better than what we had before. the team played better d and that makes a difference. the pitchers cover the spot they should and the players tend to know what they should do.

are there better managers? of course but there are worse.

i think catchers make good managers because they are part of the game the whole game. but experience counts too. i think being a manager in the minors makes a difference. you get to try things out and figure out how to do things.

willie obviously does not have all the answers. but on whole i think he does a good job.

like i said before. if they do not do well this year he is probably gone.

1- willie deserves some credit for 06. he had a bad year last year and there is some residual good will for the job he has done so far. if they suck this year and suck is defined as 500 or worse he is gone.

2- there doesnt seem to be a clubhouse leader. i think dwright will be one day, but he is too young. various ppl rumored to be in the past are no longer here.

3- no passion. as i have said this past week, competition breeds passion. name one position where there is competition.

4- bench. we have some nice bench players. the problem is that there are no young ones in the IF and it is too early to tell on Pagan. Church has sewed up LF so the OF is spoken for.

5- pitching is a mess so far, but it is early and I am hoping it is just a phase.

bottom line i think it is up to the players, but if willie were to uncharacteristically throw some chairs and blow up it might get someone’s attention. it would just have to look natural.

alternatively he could fight for his team on the field more. that might help.

The fact is mediocre managers have won the World Series,
even lousy managers have won a World Series.
Case in point is Joe Altobelli.
He won a World Series with the Orioles but less than two years later was fired. ( this is before Angelos )

I think Bill James once said good managers at the most are worth 5 to 8 games a year.
The question is Willie a good manager or just average/mediocre.

Also, I don’t think hitting last year was a problem. IMO, it was the bullpen. Their situational stats in ‘07 were similar to what they did in ‘06. Yes, this year it’s way down, but so is Delgado’s output so far.

You may be right, but I just can’t see any connection to Willie there.

If the Tigers flop this year Leyland could be out.

All managers are hired to be fired.
Willie’s time has come.
Putting off the inevitable just makes things worse.

And, yes, I know Lo Duca was critical, but he’s no longer here and he and Wagner make up a grand total of two. I don’t think there has ever been any outright wars between Willie and one of his players the way we’ve seen with some other managers.

Are you saying that because Leyland won one ring with the Marlins in 1997 that his current team can’t be indifferent to him even though they are playing poorly on the field? And why does being a first-year manager mean Girardi’s players can’t be indifferent to him. They are playing very poorly too. And yes, they don’t have A-Rod and Posada, but Willie didn’t have Alou most of the season and he hasn’t had Pedro.

I realize it was important for the fans and many Mets to come out of the shoot fast. But did all the players feel that way too? Simply wanting something doesn’t mean it can happen. I’m sure many Tigers players want to do better too.

And you are twisting my words.
The Tigers are major disappointment this year and last but
Leyland has won a World Series so he is living a bit on his reputation.
Francona has two World Series to his name.
Girardi is in his first year and A-Rod and Posada are hurt.

After last September Willie and the Mets knew they had to come out of the shoot fast.
This simply has not happened.

I don’t agree with your solutions because:

1) There are times when a manager is a clear detriment to a team or when he’s clearly lost his team. In those cases, of course, you’d want to change the manager.

2) True, you can’t fire the whole team now. But firing Willie just to do something won’t change things if the problem is the players themselves. It’s like putting a bandaid on a gushing wound. If you want to hold someone accountable, how about the guy who put the team together? And you can certainly fire many of the players after the season ends.

As for dealing with the media, some players just don’t like to and I don’t know how that can be equated to indifference to their manager. Does that mean then that every player who is very open to the media loves the manager? That would mean Wright, Glavine, Wagner, Valentin, and Reyes all love Willie. Because it’s been said that all are accommodating to reporters.

Wagner went on record last year, criticizing both Peterson and Willie. But he is just 1 player. You can speculate all you want, but there are no other current players who have gone on record saying they were dissatisfied with Willie. Maybe Feliciano, but it’s not clear in his case.

Those who argue for Willie have relied on the “will Willie fired change ?” There are many different variations on this theme.

The funny thing is, Willie’s supporters are essentially making the argument that he has no impact on anything. So if this is the case, one of two things should be done:

1) Make the position of manager a lifetime appointment (like a Supreme Court judge). Since they don’t have any impact on anything, just lock one up on the cheap for life.

or

2) Fire Willie. You can’t fire the entire 25 man roster and there is something wrong with this team. Willie is supposed to be the leader of this team. It is time someone gets held accountable for this team underachieving.