Mets Chat Room: A long day edition.
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- May
- 10
Let’s play two … and let’s stay all day to do it. A day-nighter today at Shea with Cincinnati. You could drive to Cincinnati in the time it takes to play the games today. Probably with time to spare.
We have Johan Santana and Mike Pelfrey pitching for the Mets, and the vultures in full swoop mode on Willie.
Willie might not be the greatest manager, but he’s not at the root of their problems. The Mets are barely over .500 because they haven’t hit in the clutch, their starters aren’t giving them length and the bullpen has been spotty.
It’s the players.
This entry was posted
on Saturday, May 10th, 2008 at 1:04 pm by John Delcos.
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The worst thing about the .500 ball is that the new guys have been overperforming; Church; Schneider; Pagan and even Casanova, and Santana has been better than # 1 Glavine was last Spring and yet the team continues to wallow around .500 for 140 games now. When the new guys reach thir normal mode will the 2007 failures pick up or will they cause the team to fall below .500?
First and third, one out and your ace on the mound. I know Johan Santana is a pitcher, but is that really a bunt situation? The Mets got lucky that was a wild pitch and the run scored. I hate the bunt in that situation.
They probably didn't want to risk Santana grounding into a DP….
Oh, and Reyes approach is great. Takes two hittable pitches, and then swings at a ball to end the inning. Just awesome…
What's amazing about Santana is that he hasn't looked particularly dominant for most of his starts, yet he has a 2.74 ERA. The guy knows how to get it done.
Willie's not at the root of their problems? They were in a collapse of historical purportions last September and the only guy willing to call a meeting was Marlon Anderson. That's indicative of a huge leadership void on a team filled with veterans. That tells me that the manager has lost the team.
Willie isn't responsible for how the team performs on the field though…
Oh, and Santana, giving up a hit to Matt Belisle is inexcusable..
Willie's a goner when Tiffany has given up on him…..
So what you think Josh. should the little metsie at Shea punish Santana for his inexcusable act? Should they throw things at him? Boo louder than they usually do? What do the Metsies do to this pitcher who has commited such a horrible sin?
I can understand why the Yankees and Red Sox didn't trade for Santana. What I've seen from him so far this season is he is not worth 22 mil+ a year.
Santana hasn't looked like an ace so far to begin the year.. but let's remember, he ALWAYS starts off slow…
I like the Santana signing, (especially since I don't have to pay him). Admittedly, we haven't seen him at his best yet, but it will come. Thing is, he gives the Mets a chance to win every time he pitches.
http://www.myteamrivals.typepad.com/mr_mets_daily
It couldn't been allot worse for the mets if they would have signed Zito. When the rumors came out they were interested I can honestly say that I was totally against signing him because he definitely wasn't worth the money he wanted and was finally signed for but I never thought Zito would be this bad.
Zito is so bad that he can't even win a game, thank god the mets didn't sign him or there would have been a riot at shea.
7 run lead and Heilman can't find the strike zone.
Incredible.
Heilman f**kin blows…
When Omar had a chance to trade Heilman he should have traded him, now he is worthless more ways than one.
To bad Heilman doesn't have options because if he did he be the guy that I would send to the minors to work on straightening himself out.
tomg,
Santana is not worth 22 million per season b/c no one is worth that much. But where would the Mets be without him? They're already only mediocre – you wouldn't want to answer that question. They had to do whatever it took to sign him, and it's a good thing they did.
JM,
All I said that he wasn't worth 22 mil+ and I can understand why the yankees and red sox didn't trade for him. I don't see where I said that they shouldn't have signed him so I don't know why you went there.
To MLJ; Still think one brew is emough for today?
To Tiffany; I would say the TRUE sign of Randolph losing the team be if NOBODY cared enough to call a meeting.-JD
Oh—so he hasn't lost Marlon Anderson. Three cheers for Willie. Hip hip hooray…
JD don't you know, managers lose games but they never win em.
Willie is to blame for Reyes forgetting how to play like a major leaguer, he's to blame for Glavine stinking up the joint ton the last day of the year, he's to blame for Delgado being up and down all year, he's to blame for David's April slump, ect and so on.
How many things could Willie have done really to stop the team from going 55-56 in the last 4 months of the season? Not too much when the players aren't performing.
Yes. It's called managing. That means you're responsible for the performances of the people reporting to you.
If Willie doesn't bear this responsibility, then, pray tell, what does he bear responsibility for?
That's completely ridiculous…. Willie can't "manage" Reyes to get on base… He can't make Johan throw less than 110 pitches in 6 innings… He can only control who he throws on the field; he can't control how they'll actually perform…
You're right. Managers only fill out lineup cards. They bear no responsibility for how the players on those lineup cards perform.
I dont know, but do you think the yankees wish they Santana now?
At this level, Willie is pretty much a guy who fills out a lineup card.
No matter how many rah rah speeches, players meetings and call arguing you want the manager to do, does it really matter when the team sucks it up on the field?
Willie has absolutely 0 control of what goes on between the chalk. The only thing he can do is make decisions regarding pinch hitting, pitching changes and defensive switches.
Yeah, that's it. He's got no control over what happens between the chalk. I bet Bobby Cox would agree with that one.
I'm sick of Mike Pelfrey…seriously.
Enough is enough with this guy. Ship his sorry ass back to AAA and bring up Vargas/Armas.
Bobby Cox was blessed with 3 Hall of Fame pitchers, anyone could have managed that team to success. Not to mention Leo Mazzone making miracles with the Kevin Millwood's Jared Wrights and Jorge Sosa's of the world.
I'd bet that the Braves have lost more games that Cox has been ejected then they have won.
And honestly for all the regular season winning, Cox has 1 ring to show for it, just as many as Bob Brenly and Ozzie Guillen to name a few.
Please let the Carloses be coming out of it.
Please.
Doesn't matter who it is. You could bring in Lou Gehrig in his prime with the bases loaded and HE would find a way to NOT get the run in with less than outs.
It's truly pathetic how this team struggles so in that situation.
Are you really getting on a guy who missed over a month of the season in his first AB and the pitcher?
I'm getting on the team in general for being unable to come through in bases loaded situations.
It's a common theme, outside of Wednesday and earlier today.
Tough break for David there, great defense by the Reds.
Pelfrey is just nauseating. He literally makes me sick.
JM,
"Pelfrey is just nauseating. He literally makes me sick."
Are you kidding me? Pelfrey has given up 2 runs in 6 innings.
If anything is nauseating, it's that commenjt and the Mets bats. How many times this year I got to see this lineup face a pitcher who has gotten bombed by the national league but when the Mets face the same pitcher they act like it's Nolan Ryan on the mound.
4 hits in 6 innings by the Mets against a pitcher with a era of 8+, that's nauseating.
Well, in the Mets defense, they have been incredibly hot offensively lately, they're not exactly playing with an "A" lineup in this game, and Arroyo has a .403 BABPIP, so I guess he's due for a good outing…
The reds are not a good team and Arroyo has not been good since his first 12 outings in the national league a few years ago. If Met fans want to see the Mets go on a streak they need to beat teams like the reds because losing tonight is unacceptable. This team will go nowhere this year with win a few lose a few. which is what they are at this point.
tomg,
Yeah, his line doesn't look bad, but it's the way he pitches. Get two outs, then fall apart. It's almost automatic. Tonight he got away with it. More often than not, he doesn't. He's been more bad this season than good. And for his whole career.
Jm,
the games I've watched this year so far it sounds like the mets pitching staff as a whole. How many times I've seen santana, Maine, perez and figy do the same thing and the bull pen is right there also. This team is so inconsistent that it makes me sick to watch. There is no excuse to lose this game tonight, none.
A championship team does not lose this type of game to this type of team, end of story. What does that say, THIS IS NOT A CHAMPIONSHIP TEAM!!!!
tomg,
It's a matter of degree. If Maine and Santana were falling apart as often as Pelfrey, they wouldn't have sub-4.00 ERAs. Perez is a repeat offender, you're right about that. But the fact is that Pelfrey has had a few nice starts over his young career, and the rest have been painful to watch. I suspect he'll return to form in his next start – hopefully I'm outta town.
well, this game is over. Sanchez has not pitch well his last few times out. That is not a good sign for the Mets.
The Mets will need to make a decision soon on who to send down (or release) when they take Matt Wise off the DL. I think it should be Scott Schoweneweis.. Tell me what you think after reading this:
The Mets have had over a month to decide what they want to do when Matt Wise comes off the DL. All the talk has been about Sosa and Smith, but I think the obvious choice should be Scott Shoeneweis. Of course, the talk will be that the Mets won't want to release Show because of the money they owe him over the remainder of this year and next year, but is the goal of this organization to save money or to win a championship?
The Mets feel that Jorge Sosa is too valuable to let go because he can give them multiple innings out of the bullpen, and pitch in middle relief when needed. Then you have Joe Smith who behind Billy Wagner, has been the most consistent relief pitcher this season for the Mets. The talk has been that Smith has options, so he should go down, but that doesn't sit right with me.
I've seen too many games in which the Mets (or Willie) are reluctant to go with Shoeneweis/Feliciano because they don't trust their abilities to get both left handed hitters and right handed hitters out. Thus leaving the Mets to throw the combination of Heilman/Sanchez over and over again. A perfect example of this could be seen from today's game. Game 1—The Mets have a big lead, yet they go to Heilman in the 7th. Heilman throws over 30 pitches, but with a one-run game in the second game, the Mets have to go back to Heilman.
My feeling is that you cannot afford to have three lefties in the bullpen if your going to use two of them as lefty specialist. Over the course of his career, Pedro Feliciano has been the more consistent pitcher, and has shown the ability to get right handed batters out—leaving Scott Schoeneweis as the odd-man out. Schoeneweis was a bad signing from the get go, and I don't understand how the Mets could just look over his high ERA with the Blue Jays, and give him a three year contract based on less then half a season with the Reds.
Matt Wise may not be God, or should I say Ryan Church, but he gives the Mets another middle relief pitcher, and he is someone that can take some of the load off of Heilman and Sanchez. And looking at the way Sanchez has looked lately, it may be about time to get him some help.
Well, it would be fitting if they lose tonight. Nothing like playing .500 ball for the day!
David's 8th error of the season. It's early May.
Roger,
My opinion is the Mets have allot more problems than what player to send down to the minors. Heilman has been awful, to bad they can't send him down but that is the least of there problems.
Hello everyone. Does anyone think that Omar and Willie feel good about Keppinger being in the ball park reminding them he could have played and hit for the Mets for next to nothing.
Pelfrey had a good game tonight. Unless you consider 2 runs awful.
Negativity on the second game I figured but not for the first.
DC – Hawaya?
This team is amazing inconsistent – they score 12 runs in the first game and look like an offensive machine….
Then they can't hit a guy with an 8 ERA, in fact the last baserunner was in the 4th
Could you have two completely different out comes
I heard that Heilman has minor league options.
"JM May 10th, 2008 at 10:15 pm
I heard that Heilman has minor league options."
If that is true I would send Heilman down to the minors to work on getting back to being something respectable. Lets face it, Heilman has been awful and that is a under statement.
Today the mets bull pen was awful. They looked like the bull pen that pitched in September last year which contributed to the collaspe. Actually the bull pen has not been that great this year at all except for wagner.
Willie should be fired just for letting Heilman pitch both games of the doubleheader. Its not like somebody got knocked out early and he had no choice. Despite his recent struggles, He is a valuable part of this team.
Smith and Schoenwies not used today, but Heilman and Sosa used twice. Maybe willie wants somebody to get hurt so he wont have to make a decision when wise gets activated. Im only half joking.
Bobby Cox gets his stars to perform to their capabilities, instills confidence in his young players and always seems to have a journeyman or two step forward and play over their heads. This only happens on an annual basis.
He also confronts problems. See Wickman, Bob.
Tiffany,
I predict this will be Willie's last year as manger of the New York mets.
How many games can you get beat by the likes of Jeff Keppinger, Augie Ojeda and Mike Dewitt?
Amazing….
Can't say that today's game is a must win, but you can't lose 2/3 to the Reds at home.
But it is not a good sign for Mets to be up against a rookie pitcher-Cueto. They seem to go up there and think to much against that type.
scoop, it was Blake DeWitt, heh.