Mets Chat Room: Pelfrey way off; Mets ripped.
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- May
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Mike Pelfrey walked four batters and three of them scored. The fourth prolonged an inning and accounted for another run. Here’s how bad it was: The D-Backs were 6-for-14 with runners in scoring position, but they still left 11 runners.
Tomorrow Johan Santana goes against Dan Haren, the guy I wanted the Mets to trade for last winter.
IN A NUTSHELL, Arizona 10, Mets 4.
If the all the runners the Mets left (four) would have scored they still would have lost.
IN THE CLUBHOUSE
Pitching coach Rick Peterson when approached to talk about Mike Pelfrey: “Ask (media relations director) Jay (Horwitz).” Peterson doesn’t like to talk about his pitchers. He’s the only uniformed Met who routinely won’t comment about what he is responsible for.
Willie Randolph on Pelfrey: “He didn’t pitch too well.”
Pelfrey on Pelfrey: “I can’t continue to have days like this.”
IN-GAME ANALYSIS
3RD INNING: They have to be close to perfect to beat Webb and they haven’t been. Some missed opportunities and Carlos Delgado’s play at first. Arizona 2, Mets 1.
6TH INNING: Pelfrey’s done for the day. So is Webb. Delgado’s three-run homer puts Mets back in the game. Arizona 5, Mets 4.
This entry was posted
on Saturday, May 3rd, 2008 at 3:37 pm by John Delcos.
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Moises Alou not in the line-up tonight. They want to go slow with him. The flip side, is if he's not ready to play consecutive games, then maybe he's not ready.-JD
I figure that by the third inning I'll have thus game on mute. I don't know how much D-Back lapping I can take from Mark Grace.
Its already beyond annoying. You're on a national network, how about some professionalism?
Thats what we needed. An early run, good call by Willie on the hit and run.
I hear a lot about fundamentals. Raul Casanova must do a better job of trying to take out the second baseman there. If he does, they have another run, and against Webb that could be the difference.-JD
In case you haven't heard, Julio Franco has retired. Said Franco: ``It was the hardest decision in my life. I always said I would be the first one to know the exact moment. I think the numbers speak for themselves, the production speaks and this is the right moment.''-JD
Speaking of fundamentals. Delgado's muff leads to 2 runs.
John, has Willie given any indication if Church is staying in the 2 hole when Castillo plays (I assume tomorrow)?
When Church bats 2nd, he's hitting .400 and Reyes is batting .500. Oh and they haven't lost yet either.
I know this is an inning too late and if Pelfrey could find the strikezone and Delgado could field, it would be somewhat moot, but Chavez…ugh!!!
I love the guy, but like I was posting the other night, he's living off his catch and strong 2006 season. I don't mind him being on the team because he does do things well…but I don't get how a guy with speed can A)never steal and B) ground into so many DPs.
That is now his 4th GIDP in 33 ABs this season.
Metsie: Willie has not. He said from the start he could go back to Castillo. I don't think he should, but wouldn't be surprised if he did.-JD
I just don't understand whats going through Delgado's head trying to get that ball
Even if he makes the play, he's not going to get the out.
As the replays showed, Easley was right there…Its simple defensive fundamentals.
He's clearly taking his struggles at the plate out into the field.
Doug: That's the feeling I get. He's been involved in a couple of plays like that.-JD
JD—
I hear ya. Chalk it up to Willie being Willie.
JD/Doug- I think it surely has something to do with that…and also with the fact that he's just a sub-par fielder with ZERO range.
Also, while Pelfrey has pitched decently for a no. 5 guy…I'm beginning to wonder if it wouldn't be beneficial for himself AND the team if they bring up Armas or Vargas.
It's infuriating watching him walk guys or just not be able to put teams away. Like you said JD, he's not an automatic "loss" anymore and I certainly see signs of growth…but NY has some options now…and Pedro will be back eventually (hopefully).
It didn't make any sense to begin with when they had won 5 straight and he then dumped Church back down, but IMO, with Alou back (for as long as that is), he'll keep the current lineup.
UNLESS
Delgado continues to struggle (snicker) and is followed in the order by Schneider who begins hitting like he has in his career…which is not good. That would basically be four automatic outs at the bottom of the lineup.
i missed what happened with delgados mistake, cany any1 clue me in on what happened. and jd, why didn't schnieder start today? i know he said he can backup but pelfrey seemed to rele take to him and ever since casanova has taken over pelf hs struggled
This one is boiling down to Pelfrey's lack of control. Two walks in the second scored. His walk of Young kept the fourth alive for another run to score.-JD
mike – i agree about chavez he hasnt done anything since the catch in 06.
JD,
Pelfrey has barely improved this season. Take out the start against the Nats – the Nats – and he's a 5 inning pitcher w/ 39 baserunners in 22 innings, not counting today. That's pretty bad.
Which is what I wrote earlier. Get Vargas or Armas up here. They may put up similar results, but I can't believe it would be as torturous as watching Pelfrey pitch…plus he can go down there and perhaps work on the improvements he has made.
And this team better start prolonging at bats to get Webb out of the game, cuz unless they can string a few hits together off him, they're not going to score.
That 1st and 3rd, one-out scenario in the second is looming large. A hit there or at least another run instead of the GIDP could have changed the complexion of this game.
The thing about Delgado is, he was all over the place last year. Last May he had an .849 OPS, in July a .939 OPS and in September a .949 OPS.
From May to September he hit .280/.350/.510, but then he had that hip injury (in the middle of an offensive tear) and its been all downhill since then, including the wrist injury on the last day of the year.
Part of me wants to believe he still could put up .250/20/70, but right now there is nothing that is saying that he will.
Especially now, if hes batting with Schneider, Castillo and the pitcher behind him, he's going to have a ton of trouble finding fastballs to hit, and as everyone knows he just can't hit the breaking stuff away from him anymore.
The only thing going for the Mets right now is that Webb is near 80 pitches through five.
Even though Arizona has statically the best pen in baseball, anything is better then facing Webb.
Pelfrey is nauseating. Perez has no brain, Pelfrey has no heart, and the lion just needs some courage.
To JM: Pelfrey has improved, but it isn't dramatic. You're right there. He walks too many and guys are always on base. Today is his fifth start. After four starts, compared to last season, his ERA is down by a little over two runs a game which says he's getting out of trouble more frequently. That said, he still gets into it more than he should.-JD
JM- Which is why I saw bring up Armas/Vargas. Even if the results are similar (which are acceptable for a no. 5 guy), at least it's not like experiencing a root canal.
The guy puts more than 2 runners on base per inning…it's horrible.
BTW: We're in the fifth and Pelfrey is up to 95 pitches. Runners on first and second and one out. I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't come out for the sixth.-JD
i really think schnieder had ALOT
To Mike: Are you saying Pelfrey reminds you of Trachsel?-JD
i really think schnieder had ALOT to do with pelfrey's strong 2 or 3 starts in a row.
Well, it's 4 more innings for the bullpen today. They can't continue like this.
In some cases worse, Trachsel at least would make the guys put it in play…unfortunately, many of those were sprayed all over the field.
ughhhhhhhhhhh, yank him willie, just like you yanked julio franco every nite
To JM: Follow the yellow brick road. We're off to see the wizard.-JD
mike – traschel dosnt get enough respect, this guy was a pretty darn good #5 for about 5 yrs, and he was an innings eater. the guy has like the 10th most wins on the mets very, you can take that however you want but still.
He needs to be sent down…now.
If for no other reason than to be a scapegoat for the rotation (sorry to say, but it's true) and their inability to pitch deeper into games.
Pelfrey and Hughes are in an epic struggle for biggest bust. Nothing like a heated race to the bottom.
How many think this is over against Webb? I do. If so, then why not keep Pelfrey in the game to save the bullpen a little? You know it's not going to get any easier in LA.-JD
Bob- Outside of his first 12 starts as a Met…Trachsel was a very good pitcher for some bad teams from '01-'04. He missed virtually all of '05 so that's not worth bringing up…but in 2006, despite 15 wins (which can be attributed to the Mets averaging about 7 runs/start for him), he was horrendous.
Just about the same amount of walks as Ks, tons of baserunners. I'm not saying he wasn't serviceable, but watching him pitch even when going well was torture.
And another thing, Bob, I totally get where you're coming from, but his piss-show in game 3 of the NLCS v STL and how he came out of the game "due to injury" was the last straw for me.
I don't think it's over, but I would still throw Pelfrey out there.
There ya go, it ain't over.
Mike: That sealed it for him. Had the Mets gone on to the World Series he wouldn't have been on the roster. He quit that day. ... I might have spoken too soon on saying this is over. Delgado's homer is the last thing I was expecting.-JD
There we go Carlos, we knew you still had some left in you.
And now that second inning could have been run looms large once again.
mike – I agree with you on that. That was one of the worst performances ive ever seen in any sporting event. after glavines debacle vs the Marlins last yr I put that second AND NICCCEEEE DELGADO
Agreed JD about Trax in 06.
The word "gutless" gets throw around a lot by Mets fans, but that performance was gutless.
So bad in fact the Mets went with a 13 game loser on 3 days rest in Game 7 of the NLCS.
Trax sealed his fate with the Mets in that game.
Here comes Sosa. And they are pinch-hitting for Webb.-JD
JD- Yep…and I have a bit of inside info on that one too. A guy I knows that works for the Mets overheard Omar and Willie talking in the office after the game 7 loss…and Willie basically said to Minaya re: Trachsel- "I want him nowhere near this f**** team next year"
I'd take Pelfrey out because he's already thrown his 102 pitches and, according to the data, most arm injuries occur when a pitcher is tired. If the game's over, then you send in America's favorite arsonist, Jorge Sosa.
What was interesting about this particular pitching matchup was that last year Don Sutton noted that Pelfrey reminded him of a young Brandon Webb. The potential is there, but the final piece seems elusive right now.
Now the bullpen needs to be on lockdown. I think the Mets could scrap together one run in the next three.
Sosa. Now you can say it's over, JD.
how is going to LA not going to be any easier? The Diamondbacks have been a lot better then the Dodgers this year…oh, and that's why you pull Pelfrey there, because a comeback is possible..thank you Delgado for proving me wrong.
Bob: I think Trachsel was worse. Glavine didn't have it and pitched like crap. Trachsel quit. Anybody agree with me on that one?-JD
and john, don't worry man, we all expected you to say the game was over in the 1st inning anyway, that you said it was over when they were down 5-1 was a given from you. Now, they still may lose, but this game is far from "over" yet.
JD- Any news on when Wise is coming back? I hope the Mets do right by Joe Smith, who has been largely effective, and keep him up, finances and options be damned.
Give Wise the Sosa role until Pedro comes back and then bump whomever he replaces in the rotation into the long-man slot.
Sosa's carriage has turned back into a pumpkin, IMO.
JD-Completely agree re: Glavine.
Doesn't make it any easier, but I agree.
What's maddening about Pelfrey is his control. Where has it gone?? I mean, it's one thing for a guy, even with good stuff, to not put it together because he gets hit all over the place…but for the most part, Pelfrey does not.
It's walk, walk, walk, hit which drives in multiple runs. I don't recall ever reading about control problems in college, nor during his '06 campaign when he DOMINATED the minors before being called up.
I just think he has zero confidence in himself at this point. Now, obviously, not every player with grade-A stuff pans out, but this guy throws 94-95 consistently and can't even strike out more than 2-3 guys a game.
Something is wrong there.
The best way for Pelfrey to improve is to work on his secondary pitches in the minor leagues.
Completely agree JD RE: Trax.
Trax was pitching in the NLCS, while Glavine was pitching in a game that even if we lost it was still possible to make the playoffs, and had no guarantee to get us to the playoffs if they won.
And man, for every hiccup David makes with the throw, he makes some ridiculous plays at third.
And welcome back to baseball Carlos, bout time you put a few good consecutive innings together, offensively and defensively.
Not saying they will win this, but the AZ bullpen is not as good as it's been.
What an inning for Delgado… Huge 3 run HR and an outstanding play to save David an error…
As for Glavine vs. Trachsel… I actually have to say Glavine's was worse…. Trachsel was horrible, and that performance made me despise him… But I went to that final game last year… and Glavine took away all the hope from that crowd… At least there were games still to be played after Trachsel's start; Glavine ended our season in 1 inning…
Josh: Yes, the game was over after the first with Glavine. So was the season. But, Trachsel quit. Outside of cheating, what's worse from an athlete?-JD
I still think glavines was worse, the crowd was so hyped and before we could even get an AB the game was basically over. Or really after castros almost GS in the 2nd? it was really over, tracshel on the other hand atleast let them be in the game for a little.
Heilman BLOWS… How do you hit 2 consecutive guys with 2 outs??
Speaking of crappy performances, Aaron Heilman isn't out there with his ``A'' game. Here comes Peterson, minus the jacket.
What's he saying? ``Damnit Heilman, throw a (&(*$$&#^%$ strike. You're making me look bad. If you and Perez keep throwing like (&*T(*) they are going to start asking me questions.''
Well, he could be saying that.-JD
If Heilman walks the batter here he should punched in the face. This is all on him with the hit batters and walks
What exactly is wrong with this turd?
The movement on that pitch there is the frustrating thing about this guy. He has the ability to do that yet at the same time he can be such a liability on the mound
RMKMets: He does drive you nuts, doesn't he?-JD
It might sound kinda lame but you have to wonder how much Pelfrey's inability to develop has to do with what Peterson is "teaching" him. I mean all the young guys on this staff do the same thing…have no command, walk too many guys, and are thus inefficient with their pitches
Man, is Beltran struggling right now.
Beltran might be struggling but the Mets re still the team to beat
RMK—or anyone else out there: Doesn't Jacket preach "pitch to contact"? Maybe the young guys are afraid to do that, hence all the walks and high pitch counts.
This is not good…
Any suggestions on the ugliest part of this game?-JD
What the hell, we haven't seen a grand slam, yet.-JD
Augie f**kin Ojeda… again…
Well Santana vs. Haren should be a good matchup tomorrow…
Today illustrates how important last night was. They still have a chance to win the series. Let's face it, the odds were against beating Webb anyway. Strip away the ugliness of this game and they still didn't score enough to beat him.-JD
thank god we didn't have sanchez around last year, we wouldnt even HAVE a 7.5 game lead to squander. hell, we never eaven would have been in first place to begin with. he sucks BIGGGGGG time.
ha ha, wouldn't it be funny if they hit a grand slam, ha ha … ha ha, isn't it amazing they haven't given up a grand slam yet, ha ha…
metsie- there is no way that anyone considers the mets the team to beat, in case you havent noticed, retard, we're only 2 games over .500. the guys in the other dugout hapen to be 11 games over. i think they might just have the title of "team to beat" right about now. i think we as met fans need to learn how to drain our egos because our team has no will to play baseball, when teams like the diamondbacks actually care, hense THEY'RE GOOD, and i dont care what anyone says, WE SUCK. i'm a diehard met fan so dont go thinking im just some met hater ruining this blog, i'm just sick of this team.
Duaner sucks- You may disagree with Metsie, but there is NO reason to call him a retard…Imho, your a complete moron…
I also agree that the mets are not the team to beat, in our division that would be philly and in the national league it would be the D-Backs. I understand your frustrated that sanchez gave up a ton of runs in the eight inning but he has pitch well this year. That was his first melt down so IMO he gets a pass and he doesn't suck. The Mets weren't going to get aq run in the ninth anyway because the D-Backs have excellent
relief pitching.
oh well. Win tomorrow and things will look better.
metsie- sorry i called you a retard, heat of the moment.
but we're not the team to beat
Tough ending to the game, but this would have been a miracle to steal against one of the best pitchers in the NL against Pelfrey.
Duaner was due for a little hiccup, it was inevitable.
Hopefully Johan can go out there against an extremely young team and give the team eight strong innings, this is the type of game that Santana needs to win. Close a series out and head to LA.
There's not a Met who doesn't answer questions after a nightmare like today. Mike Pelfrey must have talked for 15 minutes. Willie Randolph answers questions before and after every game. The only one who doesn't is The Jacket. He always says to ask the PR guy, then by the time you find the PR guy The Jacket is gone. Pretty weak.-JD
jd – I wouldnt call this game a "nightmare" they went up against one of the best sps in the game, and battled back. Tpp bad the pen imploded in the th but I wouldnt call it angithmare
Eh, like JD said earlier, you don't expect to win this game. The Mets put themselves in a nice position to get a series win by taking the opener on Friday night. But I agree with you Bob that this wasn't a "nightmare" either.
If it was a usual suspect that got lit up out of the 'pen…maybe. But Sanchez has looked fantastic thus far and looked DOMINANT last night. He just didn't have it today. B2B's probably are still not the easiest on him, but even so, just could have been one of those games.
Tomorrow is one of those games the Mets got Johan for…just win series' and the rest falls into place.
JD-In fairness to Peterson…who really wants to hear from the pitching coach after a game?? I can't think of many articles I read in any town where the pc is quoted.
Mike: Isn't it Peterson's job to help the pitchers get better? Pelfrey, Perez and Heilman are all stinking up the place right now. I'd like to know why.-JD
To Mike and Bob: I'll give you that and retract ``nightmare.'' I'll let you guys describe today. I'm open to suggestions.-JD
True…not saying that you're not valid. It just opened my eyes to the fact that I rarely hear from ANY pitching coaches.
But I know your point…I think I just didn't express it properly.
And to your description of today's game: "expected loss"
Here's your article for tomorrow, JD:
"The Mets-Diamondbacks matinee on Saturday pitted Mike Pelfrey against the unbeaten Brandon Webb.
The rubber-game of the three-game series is on Sunday afternoon as Johan Santana squares off with Dan Haren."
Article written.
hey delcos, can we set up a one on one so i can ask you questions every time you write a bad article? I need more amo for my blog posts.
Mike: Fair enough.-JD
To the guy using my name. Every article I write has my name on it and you can reach me with a question. I might talk to you if you had the stones to use your real name.-JD
JD- I hope you know I'm not making fun of you at all…just having some fun with the loss and everything.
Mike: I know. You have to be able to laugh. It's only baseball, you know.-JD
Eh…I try and tell myself that everyday.
It doesn't often work too well. Looking forward to tomorrow's game!!! Should be great! This is what we got him for!
Mike: It really is. I remember when they made the trade they said there wouldn't be many long losing streaks and he would be a calming presence after they play bad. Their pitching is really in a bad way right now as far as not getting any length from their starters. Win or lose tomorrow, they need seven from him. This five innings every game isn't cutting it.-JD
That's why last year in September the mets bull pen was getting bombed, there starters couldn't go deep in games. it's happening again this year.
Biggest problem with the team, thus far, bar none.
The offense has been inconsistent, but you have to figure (and rely on) guys like Beltran and Reyes, who have struggled so far, will come on and help. Even so, they are still averaging about 4.5 runs/game.
The issue is the 'pen. Heilman…eh, you can see he's been overworked, but it goes deeper than that right now. Today was concrete proof of that.
Sanchez, today aside, seems to be progressing nicely and Wagner has been fantastic.
In all honesty, the 'pen itself, outside of Sosa/Heilman has been quite effective…but NOBODY is going to be able to pitch well when the starters not named Johan are averaging 5 ip/start.
I don't worry about Maine so much, as he seems to be inching along each start, but Perez was expected to carry a greater burden and he hasn't thus far. That is the key, IMO. You can't expect Figueroa/Pelfrey to go deep into games often…which is fine. But Perez, who is now the no. 3 guy, NEEDS to give some length, because that is what is killing this club.
This is the type of game why the Mets spent the money on Santana like they did.
Much like that first game in Philly, Johan will need to pitch into the eight inning to give the arms in the pen a rest.
We can only hope that the roof is closed.
Doug,
You said it right. This is why they pay Santana, for games like tomorrow. If the Mets can take tomorrow's game, they have to feel good about the weekend, today's disaster notwithstanding. If you go on the road, take 2 of 3 against the best team (record-wise), and had to pitch Mike Pelfrey one of those games, you did well. These are the mini-wars you need to win.
Pelfrey is garbage. No sooner do the Mets get a run and the lead off of Webb that he walks the first 2 batters in the bottom of the inning leading to a 2-1 deficit. We've seen this act before with him, Perez, Maine. It's going to be a long season with this inconsistent pitching.
John,
Your comment about Rick Peterson was one of the most insightful things I've seen you write. Ever. Please keep it up.