In other words JK says metsies are only good metsies worthy of a seat in the parking lot stadium if they are coroprate people. JK I’m afraid you are the “despicable elitist snob” that you yourself named. You aren’t a good Metsie. No metsie would hate his own fans for not going to work in a suit. JK thinks butchers and truck drivers and cabbies and cops and Marines and soldiers who are good enough to go to Iraq and die for JK’s safety aren’t good enough to watch the Mets because they don’t wear suits. Only rich corporate pukes are good enough to be JK metsies…. Shame on you JK. Shame shame shame….....

It’s all about perspective. The Mets are my team, for better or for worse. For the most part, I see booing as counterproductive. Omar Minaya doesn’t need me booing for him to recognize that Schoenweiss or Heilman suck. He’s a fairly astute guy. The thing is, it’s a tad more difficult for him to just fire Heilman than for the deli owner. Plus, it wouldn’t be prudent either. Baseball is a really long season and players are going to have their peaks and valleys. For the most part, we’re stuck with these guys for the long haul. So I choose to be positive and supportive of my team.

So no, I don’t think it is unsophisticated to not boo, because there is a conscious choice involved. I don’t agree with everything the Mets do. And I certainly acknowledge their flaws. However, I just try to be reasonable and keep things in perspective. Way more often than not, I don’t feel the need to boo my team.

What I was disagreeing with, originally, was Delcos’ comment that booing makes NY fans unsophisticated. I think the fans who never boo—like in St. Louis—are anything but sophisticated. I’d much rather see fans exercise their right to boo and debate whether it’s warranted, than see them mindlessly cheer on anyone wearing the home uniform, regardless of their performance. And that’s what you get in other cities. And I think that is anything but sophisticated.

What I’ve been disagreeing with, later in this conversation, is the idea that I, as a fan, bear some type of responsibility for my team’s performance and profitability. I believe they are there for my enjoyment, and if I don’t approve of them, I can express my opinions and/or take my business elsewhere. But I bear no responsibility to coddle anyone who’s bothered by my opinion.

And, no winning at all costs isn’t the goal of every fan. If it were, Barry Bonds would have a job right now.

Billy Wagner might be there to the end of his contract, most likely because he is a guy not bothered by the booing; in contrast, if it bothers someone like Schoeneweis, then management is likely going to have to move him, even if it means eating his contract.

“If you don’t like the way they cut your lawn or your meat, you can easily go to someone else. Baseball teams don’t have that option with players on expensive guaranteed contracts.”

While I can easily go someplace else for my lawn service or deli meat, I can also stop supporting my baseball team, too. The same way it might be tough for the store manager to fire the deli guy, it might also be tough for a team to eat a guaranteed contract. But, if that person is causing me not to support their business, it’s a decision they’ll have to consider.

I hate to break the news to you little metsie keith, but it is supposed to be entertainment. Only you metsies want it to be life and death, war and peace, whatever and wherever….
Tiffany rules!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Tiffany is the last good little metsie in the world as is clm and dave, and Delcos…...

Personally, I don’t agree with booing the home team. However, fans do have the right to do it, and there are times when it is justified.

However, the Mets fans performance this season has been disgraceful. Booing Johan after his first home start? Booing the team mercilessly? I honestly don’t think any Mets fan is justified in booing in April. Sorry, I don’t.

Someone needs to tell these people at the games that baseball is not the same as football. It’s a long season and there are going to be ups and downs.

One more thing to note. Tiffany’s perspective is very enlightening. Perhaps she represents a different breed of fan. For me, the Mets, Rangers, Knicks, Packers, and Real Madrid are my teams. I stand by them through thick and thin, and support them. I agree with Tiffany. It has nothing to do with sophistication. This is just the type of fan I am. Plus, I played a lot of ball, so I understand you don’t always get the run in from 3rd with less than 2 outs.

However, the view Tiffany expresses seems to be the one of a fan who watches the game for mostly entertainment purposes. Thus, they treat the players like Roman gladiators. If they are not entertained… thumbs down, boo the heck out of them. If they are entertained… thumbs up, cheer and ask for a curtain call.

“He who controls the mob, controls Rome.”

In baseball, you better care about your team’s profitability. Because if they aren’t profitable, they’re stuck with low payrolls. And can’t afford the better talent to make their team play better. Any “sophisticated” fan would understand that.

And of course getting rid of bad players is the problem of the front office. But it doesn’t take a brain surgeon to understand that most organizations simply can’t because of contracts. And therefore, for the most part the teams are stuck with these players. So are the fans. Since you’re stuck with them, whether you like it or not, why would you do something that makes them perform worse?

As Wagner has often said, the booing is dumb because he’s going to be there till the end of his contract whether you like it or not. Wagner is someone who I don’t think the booing bothers. But it adversely affects the performance of others like Schoeneweis.

I guess if you don’t really care whether the team plays its best or not, then booing doesn’t matter.

• For all I know the guy cutting the grass is the owner’s son and the deli guy has pictures of the store manager in a compromising position.

  What does that have to do with anything? If you don’t like the way they cut your lawn or your meat, you can easily go to someone else. Baseball teams don’t have that option with players on expensive guaranteed contracts.

You’re making assumptions here. Like, for example, that the consumer’s satisfaction lies in the team winning; and, that the consumer cares about the profitability of the organization. I think how the game is played—and, hopefully, won—means more than just winning. Moreover, I can’t fathom how a consumer would care less about the organization’s profitability. That’s ownership’s issue, not the consumer’s.

“No, it doesn’t. Since when are meat and lawn cutters on multi-year $3-20 million guaranteed contracts?

Omar tried to get rid of Schoeneweis over the winter. But guess what? No one wanted him with his contract. And the Mets weren’t willing to eat 2 years of it. Which I can understand. So, sure. You can tell your deli guy he’s full of baloney and it won’t cost you. But you can’t do that with Schoeneweis. And most other players.”

All of this is ownership’s problems, not the consumer’s. For all I know the guy cutting the grass is the owner’s son and the deli guy has pictures of the store manager in a compromising position. Regardless, as the consumer, I provide the business with the feedback—and then it’s up to the business to decide how to respond. Whether Schoeneweis can be traded or whether the deli guy sells the pictures to the National Inquirer, it’s not my problem as a consumer.

Now what is the reason for this home field disadvantage? And the poor performance of some players at Shea?

All these things say clearly to me that the excessive booing has been detrimental to their performance at Shea.

• As for the sophistication aspect, it’s not the fans’ job to secure a home-field advantage; rather, they are the consumers whose satisfaction with the product determines the profitability of the organization.

  Right. But if their behavior is detrimental to the team’s winning, as I believe it is at times, then their own actions are counter-productive to their own satisfaction. As well as to the profitability of the organization.

• Finally, it does work that way. If the guy cutting your lawn or slicing your salami isn’t doing it the way you like it, you will tell him and, if need be, replace him.

  No, it doesn’t. Since when are meat and lawn cutters on multi-year $3-20 million guaranteed contracts?

  Omar tried to get rid of Schoeneweis over the winter. But guess what? No one wanted him with his contract. And the Mets weren’t willing to eat 2 years of it. Which I can understand. So, sure. You can tell your deli guy he’s full of baloney and it won’t cost you. But you can’t do that with Schoeneweis. And most other players.

Suffice to say, performers react differently to the fans. Some are oblivious; some are decimated; and some make a concerted effort to rise above it.

As for the sophistication aspect, it’s not the fans’ job to secure a home-field advantage; rather, they are the consumers whose satisfaction with the product determines the profitability of the organization. If they think Aaron Heilman needs to go, they will most likely voice this opinion, as a form of feedback, to both the player and the organization.

Finally, it does work that way. If the guy cutting your lawn or slicing your salami isn’t doing it the way you like it, you will tell him and, if need be, replace him. Unless, of course, you’re a St. Louis Cardinal fan, in which case you just sit there and accept whatever crap is presented, because you don’t want to ever boo for the home team. And, that, to me, is a question of sophistication, not NYers booing.

Now, whether booing a particular player in a particular instance is warranted is another story altogether; but booing, in and of itself, doesn’t equate to a lack of sophistication.

I think the booing tends to reflect the persona of NY; i.e., if you can’t get the job done, we’ll find someone else who can. That might be off-putting to certain players, but that’s really their problem, not the fans’. If Aaron Heilman can’t perform under these conditions, NY isn’t going to change to placate him; rather, we’ll find someone better to take his place. That’s life in the big city. And I don’t think that attitude reflects a lack of sophistication.

As for wanting to fire the manager, you’re mischaracterizing it by saying that this movement is starting a month into the season: Many fans were calling for his dismissal last October, after he presided over, arguably, the worst collapse in the history of the sport. I count myself among those fans and continue to be concerned, not only with what transpired last year, but how it seems to have carried over to this season, as well.