There were some bright spots for the month. Billy Wagner and Ryan Church for example. David Wright had his moments, but tailed in the end. Johan Santana deserved more than his record shows.
There were red flags, too.
Jose Reyes still flounders. Carlos Beltran and Carlos Delgado had down months, with the latter showing few signs of turning things around. The bullpen is overworked and has underperformed. If you aren’t concerned about Aaron Heilman, you should be. Neither John Maine or Oliver Perez have pitched to expectations.
A lot of injuries, too.
Pedro Martinez, Orlando Hernandez, Brian Schneider and Moises Alou. Luis Castillo hobbled for most of the month.
For all that went wrong, the Mets are still a whisper from first place. That shouldn’t be their thinking. During the collapse the Mets’ refrain was “we’re still in first place.’’
They sang it until their season was over.
They can’t be thinking how close they are now. They need to be thinking about how overall lousy they have been and realize that won’t cut it.
75 Comments
Metsfan: You “misremembered.” Randolph never came out of the field to pull Reyes for being lazy. He did it after the inning.-JD
One more take on Wagner’s trashing of Perez…
The problem isn’t necessarily the message, but the messenger. Billy Wagner is big on bluster and short on street cred.
Yes, Wagner has saved hundreds of games—but only three were registered in the postseason and only one in has come in a league championship series. He has never made the World Series.
According to baseballreference.com, Wagner has been on the losing side of five of six playoff series and in 11 postseason appearances, he has compiled an 8.71 ERA while surrendering 18 hits and 10 earned runs in 10.1 innings.
And while Wagner was compiling a 16.88 ERA in the 2006 NLCS in three appearances (in which he didn’t record a strikeout), Perez won NLCS Game 4 with the Mets trailing 2-1 in games and surrendered only one earned run over 6 innings in ano-decision in NLCS Game 7.
Purely based on statistics – save their legendary charisma—if any Mets pitchers have earned the chops to give the private verbal smackdown to a younger, less experienced teammate, it’s Pedro Martinez and El Duque.
Baseballreference.com shows Pedro has a 6-2 post-season record, including one World Series win, to go with a 3.40 ERA and has a ring to show for it. El Duque, meanwhile, has won four World Series rings and has gone 9-3 with a 2.55 ERA in the post-season.
But the problem is that neither El Duque nor Pedro is in the locker room now to counsel and admonish young starters like Perez, Pelfrey and John Maine. Perhaps Johan Santana hasn’t been as much of a mentor to Perez, Pelfrey and Maine as we all hoped.
But the saddest part, beyond Wagner’s potentially alienating Perez and other teammates is that perhaps the manager isn’t showing the strong leadership with his players he needs to.
Willie Randolph must quickly reclaim the reins on this team before meeting the dreadful fates of past Mets managers Davey Johnson, followed by the ineffectual likes of Bud Harrelson, Jeff Torborg and later, Art Howe.
Hey, We have all been clamoring for somebody to step up. Somebody finally did. Wagner was one of the few who spoke up last year. Too bad Pedro and El duque were hurt in ‘06 when WE needed them. There are plenty of critics here and I am one of them, but Wagner stepped up. I wish it was someone else, but nobody was willing.
I don’t mind if this team loses because they simply don’t have the talent or the skills, but “not showing up” (as Wagner said) is intolerable—if that is what they did.
I have to agree with Gil. The fact that Wagner is doing all the talking says something about the lack of leadership. Remember when Lo Duca made his comment about the rest of the guys being able to “speak English”? That too was a symptom of the problem. Then and now, this team is simply not a cohesive unit, so it’s not surprising that they don’t play like one.
Willie is a big part of the problem, but I think there are probably very few guys out there who could light a fire under this team. That guy would have to be some kind of miracle worker. The chemistry is simply not there. We need more passion and leadership from the players too.
To me, Willie already looks and sounds defeated. I think he has to go. He’s not the right manager for this team. We need someone who will bring more energy and enthusiasm and who is willing to call out the vets as well as the young guys. But we need a couple of players like that as well. At this point, I don’t care if they’re not .300 hitters, as long as they don’t roll over and die when the team is down a few runs late in the game.
I live in Japan, and I’ve had the pleasure of watching some high school baseball here. The kids battle (in the TRUE sense of the word) until the very last out! As much as I like our players, if they aren’t willing to do that for us, we’re better off just saying “good-bye”.
A guy who sits in the bullpen in the 7th and 8 th innings and watches the rest of the staff try to get out of big jams while all he is capable of doing is coming in with nobody on base is not the one to admonish anyone. Let him show his guts by coming in with 3 on and one out in the 8th before he blasts someone else. Why won’t he do it? Blemish his personal save %. Mr April has no right to blast anyone but himself until he becomes Mr October. The most me first guy on the team criticizing just doesn’t work. A guy who played with a broken face has the right to do it, not this guy.
Well,now you know Milledge’s value. He was Wagner whipping boy, He’s gone so now Wagner has found his next victim.
Ray: The reason Willie didn’t go out on the field to pull Reyes is because he wasn’t on the field right after the play in question. After the putout, Reyes went immediately back to the dugout. On the other hand, right after the play in which Hodges felt Jones didn’t hustle, Jones was still on the field. So the circumstances were different.
Apart from that, I don’t know how you can differentiate Willie’s action from what Hodges did. They were both done for the same reasons. They both called out and brought attention and embarrassment to the players. But whereas Hodges was hailed for his move, Willie has been vilified for his.
I think it’s debatable whether it was necessary to pull Reyes from that game. But IMO, Willie’s action is not the cause of Reyes’ long funk. Because as has been pointed out, the funk didn’t start till some time after the incident.
Wagner may be an ass, and he may not be well-liked by the other players, but really, I don’t see how his comments can make anything worse at this point. Before Wagner said anything, the Mets had played a month of baseball w/o focus, and it has cost them. Maybe they will all rally around their dislike of Wagner. I don’t know that it was right of Wagner to do this, but they need to rally around something.
Wow, so many great comments here. I’d like to address some recurring themes – re: Wags, I think after PLD left the team, there was no one with cajones left to tell it like it is. Wags may pitch one inning, but he’s the only one who doesn’t feel the need to play favorites, he can not be politically correct and hey – he also called Willie out on the mismanagement of the BP last year. Um, who else is going to speak up? Heilman, who gets flamed for wanting to start but never showing the goods to back it up and looks like he’s gonna cry on the mound every time he’s in a difficult spot. Feliciano – who the only time he ever spoke about Willie mismanaging him he was flamed? Who else is there? I admire Billy’s brass. I don’t care about his performances in the past – it’s here and now, he’s brought the goods to back it up.
As for Willie/Gil references – yes they are both quiet leaders, but Gil was a LEADER and had the respect of everyone. From day one, Willie has played favorites with the vets and never gained an ounce of their respect. And he treats the youngsters like doo-doo, like questioning their credibility (Figgy, Pagan) and yanking Reyes. I would have had no problem with him benching Jose for “lack of hustle” IF HE WAS CONSISTENT with the punishment for everyone. For example, I remember a time that Delgado didn’t run out a ball he thought was foul, was called out b/c it was fair and they threw him out at first…and Willie defended him to no end. Do you think Willie would walk to the outfield to yank one of his players like Gil did to Cleon Jones? Never.
On the other hand, I do remember Willie getting fired up. He got tossed out of two games in 2006 in one week – there was one game where Duaner Sanchez got tossed and he was all up in the ump’s faces. This is the Willie I like. He can’t be even-keeled all the time. He’s got to show some fire. Wasn’t there an incident a week or so ago against the Nats I believe that a runner on third caught a ball in play and he didn’t question it? This shows to me he has no clue. Furthermore, it also shows that Jerry Manuel has no clue. I think Manny Acta had more pull in that clubhouse than either Randolph or Manuel will ever have. Like someone else said, look at the 2000 Mets when Bobby V was forced with – we’ll fire you unless you agree to cut your staff. It was an ultimatum but it changed the dynamic of that team. I think the Mets need to do the same, promote Oberkfell, bring Gary Carter to the coaching staff, I say they can keep Nieto he’s the only one I like but in the spirit of cleaning house, let him go too – bring up Teufel, etc. If there’s one thing the Mets aren’t short on is experience personnel to right this ship. We need some guys who can kick butt here and now.
Agreed. And I’m glad he wouldn’t.
I don’t think any manager has done something like that since. Not Leyland or Johnson or Cox. Nor do I think they would under similar circumstances.
IMO, what Hodges did and Willie did was wrong. I think it would have been better to take the player behind closed doors and chew him out. Not embarrass him publicly.
Hodges’ action was even more humiliating to the player than what Willie did. So Willie should at least get credit for that.
I think you can blame Willie for many things and he certainly deserves his share, but let us say he wanted to shake up the team.
What are his options? Right now you do not punish Ollie for one bad game. You can criticize but not punish. You might replace someone for lack of production or lack of focus, the problem is there is no one to step up.
The backups are Easley and Anderson. Either could play 1B but would the team allow that for a 16 million $ man? If Castillo is deemed damaged goods, ditto for a guy with a new 4 year contract. You don’t want to do that to Jose because overall I think he has played good D although his plate approach sucks and obvious mental errors should be disciplined so you could take him out that game if you choose to .. if you think his ego can handle it.
Bottom line Willies hands are tied. The problem areas have few options. You do not replace a player without a reasonable expectation from the new guy.
how would willie have been able to pull him off the field, when Reyes was on offense and coming back to the dugout anyway? The point wasn’t that he physically went on the field, the point was that he was willing to remove a player from the game for being lazy, but whatever, go ahead and nitpick. As for Delcos, you’re just looking for places to confront me, so good job on that, i’m glad, me, a random poster on your blog, is able to rile you up enough that you have to find ways to refute what I say. Can’t help but say i’m satisfied with that. Thank you.
The problem here is a loss in confidence in the manager. They just don’t seem to be playing hard for him. In ‘06, everyone picked each other up, in ‘07 and so far in ‘08 the attitude seems to be like, “oh, well, we’ll get them tomorrow…its a long seasonâ€. Where was that team that gave you confidence that even down 3 runs they were still in it? This team only has one big inning a night and hopes that is enough to hold off the team, hence it seems like the bullpen blows it when they do lose.
I said it yesterday…Willie trusts his guys, but do they trust him? After the Collapse, I think its a resounding no.
“History repeats itself, first as tragedy then as farce.” Welcome to the farce, gentlemen!
Removing Reyes was one of the things Willie did that I liked. But then he got blamed for Joses uninspired play the rest of the year, so I dont expect to see that happen again. Todays player is a different breed, I guess. They make so much money, and entourages telling them how badly theyve been “dissed”. I concede the point that a manager has less power than they did years ago , and I dont put it all on the manager.
Maybe this team is not so good. What would the pitching staff look like now if Santana didnt fall into our lap? pretty scary. You cant fire the whole team though, and somebodys going to have to pay, or else the booing will just get worse.
On to tonites game.
It sounds like Scheinder will be back which probably means Molina is sent down which means Alou will be activated.
So that leads to a quandry for Willie.
Does Castillo who as been hitting bat 2nd? And does that mean Church bats 6th which means Delgado bats 7th? Or does he not want to embarass the vet and puts Delgado 6th and Church 7th which means you bat the guy who has been your most consistent performer-Church-7th.
I am assuming Alou bats 5th (which he should b/c Beltran needs him behind him-not seeing enough good pitches).
If any of you have time please read Tim Marchman’s column in today’s New York Sun.
You will either think he nailed on the head or he is out in left field.
Please let me know what you think.
I hope Willie gets fired… not because he deserves it, because he doesn’t, but to show people how little effect a new manager will have on the team..
NY Cuban, you say on MetsBlog that Willie “led” this team to the collapse… It isn’t true… What led to this team’s collapse was the horrendous offseason before by the Great Omar Minaya…. Instead of signing someone like Carlos Lee or Alfonso Soriano, he decides to sign Piss-On-My-Hands-Lou who can’t even walk without breaking something… He decided to keep The Stone Guardian in RF, even though he can’t hit for power or against lefties, and is an abominable fielder… As for the pitching… He elects not to resign one of our best relievers because it cost too much, and instead signs a terrible reliever for even more money… He also decides to sign a steroid using loser to a 2 YEAR DEAL… Mr. Minaya then decides not do upgrade our rotation at all, and sticks Willie witb a 40 year old nibbler, “The Wild Thing”, a guy who was a throw in to the Benson deal, a man whose age could only be found in the Bermuda Triangle, and an assortment of crap stuck to the wall..And most importantly; Minaya decided to clean out all our depth, for nothing in return…
Then at the deadline, instead of getting a reliever we desperately needed, he gets a 2B we didn’t need, and he gets NO pitching help..
Combine that with the freefall of Delgado, Reyes not showing up in the 2nd half, and the way the pitching was set up, and you have a team that completely overacheived….
Finally, if Willie has to go, then he has to go, but Omar Minaya better be riding his coattails…
Josh, I agree Willie needs to go with Omar on high notice. If at the end of this season, the team has failed again, then it is time to say good-bye to Omar. And as for your comment about the Collapse…if you are up 7 games with 17 games to play and you have 6 games to end the season against the Nats and Marlins, you need to place some blame on the manager. If the team was good enough to be up 7 games in division (and predicted to walk way with NL), then it should have held onto that lead. The day to day managing has to fall on Willie…and he failed miserably.
Scott: I don’t think it was an opinion that is shocking by any means. I think Omar is more to blame for giving Willie and making him count on an over the hill 1bman, a gimpy 2bman, and a brittle left fielder, a number 2 starter coming off serious injury, who we all knew coming into the season WERE exactly those kinds of players. It’s also not Willie’s fault that Beltran and Reyes and to a smaller extent, D.Wright have not been offensive forces. So in a nutshell, I blame Omar more.
That gimpy second baseman is third among NL second baseman in OBP, behind Utley and DeRosa. OBP is why Castillo is here—and he’s doing a good job of it, gimpy knees and all.
Tiffany: The Mets have played a month of the season and he has asked for days off already. He’s committed a crucial error the other day and couldn’t lay down a squeeze bunt the night before. He’s on a nice little streak now which is why they should keep him IMO in the 2 hole. But he is a guy who I don’t think the Mets can count on healthwise.
I blame Castillo’s error the other day on Oliver Perez.
Perez walked so many guys that this in part caused Castillo to zone out during the game.
You may think my opinion is wrong but did you know that Perez had more unearned runs scored on him than any other Met pitcher last year.
Scott: No one’s opinion is “wrong.” I just totally completely disagree with it.
Wow Scott from Pelham that was a very very mean thing to say about a metsie. Do you think Castillo is too stupid to pay attention for a little while or is he too old too pay attention for a little while. Every metsie fan now hates Oliver Perez and Carlos Delgado…....and Aaron heilmann and Jorge Sosa…. and…..
Scott,
IMO that SUN article was spot on.
Wow, cool man, big thanks! http://uobxgfpuef.com