Mets Chat Room: The official team of the US Post office. Mets mail it in.
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- April
- 30
The Mets didn’t just mail it in today, they used FedEx.
Especially their pitcher. Question: Can The Jacket fix Oliver Perez? Can anybody fix Oliver Perez?
I wrote today that the Pirates are a team the Mets should beat up on, not be humiliated by. They showed nothing today. What’s alarming is it comes on the heels of a game they could have lost last night. Tuesday should have been a wake-up call for the Mets to not take teams for granted. So much for alarms and messages.
If the Mets were a high school team, Willie Randolph would be out having them run laps tomorrow. Maybe he should, anyway.
This entry was posted
on Wednesday, April 30th, 2008 at 12:04 pm by John Delcos.
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I'm not sure how a Wednesday afternoon game against a last place team determines if your championship-caliber or not..
Perez has to pitch well, and deep today. The bullpen can't take having to pitch 5 or 6 more innings again…
Josh: What I mean is it is a game they should win and championship caliber teams don't let them slip away. It's also a game where losing focus is a possibility, and that's something they do too often.-JD
First off, I myself don't think this is a championship team but I've been wrong before.
No one game determines the outcome of the season. If they are really a lot better than the weaker teams they can still win more than their share of the games where the conditions don't favor them. The Pirates were up as late as the Mets though so I don't think they are at a disadvantage. Anyway winning is always preferred.
I also think it's wrong to say that the Mets won a game yesterday that "they didn't deserve to win." What makes you think that the Pirates "deserved" to win last nights game?
Steve: Their bullpen blew a save opp. They left a pile of runners on base. They played poorly enough to lose, which means they deserved to lose.
Taylor: I never said today's game would determine the outcome of the season. I said they are playing a team they should beat and championship caliber teams win these types of games. The Mets are barely over .500, so they've let games like this slip away already. If they want to win, they need to bully teams they should beat.-JD
JD: The Pirates left plenty of runners on base as well. Plenty of teams blow saves and come back to win. The Mets made a crucial error, so did the Pirates. The Pirates blew the lead first. Anyway, was it raining at Shea? Is that why the game was delayed?
No steve, there was a water main break near by shea delaying the fans from getting to the park. The mets will start the game at 1:50pm
John:I don't think it's fair to point out the Met's record after one month of the season. Besides the D'Backs, every team is barely over .500. Surprisingly enough, they're only 1 game off of last year's pace.. But I do agree that they should beat up on the Pirates, because they're just an awful baseball team…
Steve: Exactly my point. You expect the Pirates to break down like they did. That's why they haven't had a winning season since Bonds played there. The Mets say they are better. So prove it.-JD
JD,
I find it pretty amusing that you even pretend there is anyone who believes the Mets are a championship team. The fans don't believe it, the players and management won't say it, but they aren't stupid and they don't believe it either. It's not an issue of confidence, just fact. I'm not sure why you'd raise even the inference of that expectation with your lead-in. Unless you were looking at their payroll.
I believe this is a championship team
Especially if Pedro can come back strong
Josh: Why isn't it fair? The Mets made a big deal in spring training about putting last year's collapse behind them and how they needed to get out to a fast start. Well, Willie Randolph said several times this month that they've played like they did at the end of last season.-JD
Doug: What if Pedro doesn't come back strong?-JD
Is there really any team playing like a "championship team" at this point?
Arizona is really the only team that I can think of
If Pedro doesn't come back strong, its going to be a fight through the playoffs
Even without Pedro, I think that this is at worst a playoff team
Hopefully Alou can give the lineup a jolt
I hate to use the "its early" excuse, but its still early…If they are still hovering around .500 in June, then I'll get worried
To JM: They missed the playoffs last year and a hair out of first this season. And, they are where they are despite playing like garbage for most of the month. That's probably an indictment of the NL East than an endorsement of the Mets. Either way, they playoffs are a possibility, and if they get there so is the potential of winning a championship. Their stated goal is the playoffs, but they aren't playing to that level. My point is they need to pick it up.-JD
I agree. I'm just saying they don't have to win all games like this, just most of them. Is that 126th street in Queens? or Manahattan?
John: A "fast start" wouldn't put the collapse behind them. They got off to a fast start last year, and we all know what happened. The only way they can put last year behind them is playing good, crisp baseball for the entire season…
JM: I have to ask, how in the world can you clarify whether or not they're a championship team at this point? It isn't "fact"; it's more like "blatant pessimism" on your part.
Taylor: I'll buy that. In Queens. There was a construction accident at Citi Field that caused the problem.-JD
Josh: C'mon, give me a break here. They aren't playing like a championship team. That's not being pessimistic, it's just stating what I see. ... Wouldn't you agree (and using your words), that if they consistently played ``good, crisp baseball,'' that they've have a better record, and therefore, would have gotten off to a better start than what they have.-JD
John: I targeted the "pessimism" comment towards JM, not you… Yes, they haven't played great baseball to start the year, but I just think it's unfair to make conclusions on them at this point. It's pretty hard and rare to start a season like the D'Backs have..
Oh, and I'm starting to despie Oliver Perez…
Why can't this team contend for a championship?
We have a good team. Not great. Not legendary. Not magical. Not Amazin'. Just a solid team. IMO, they should make the the playoffs.
But once you're in the playoffs, the dynamic changes. The way this team is constructed, I feel like they are actually better constructed for a short series.
Being able to throw Johan twice in a short series gives you a pretty significant advantage, one would think. Plus, the back end of the pen is pretty solid. You won't be seeing Jorge Sosa in the playoffs.
Josh,
My feeling is they are the exact same team as last September, w/ Santana sprinkled in every 5th day. If that is the case, I don't need to give them anymore time to "turn it around." I could be wrong. I hope I am.
Josh,
If you think this team looks like a championship team than I have a bridge to sell you man. If you think this is a championship team because you have a positive attitude that's fine. I go by what I've seen so far this season. I don't look at it by being negative or positive. I go by my experience with seeing championship teams and knowing baseball. This is definitely not a championship team, playoffs, possible, because every team in there division has issues. If the Mets are going to make the playoffs though they need to win there division because the wild card will come probably from the central.
Hampton left his rehab start early today. Guy is a joke.
Here is a question to everybody. Who was a better team, The 2006 Mets or the 2008 Mets?
Tomg, I never said they were a "championship" team. My main point is that it's too early to decipher whether or not they're a championship team… For some perspective, the '02 Angels and '03 Marlins were under .500 in April… Not comparing us to either of those teams or saying we're going to win a championship… Just saying, April doesn't make a champion…
It's looking more and more that the teams fighting in the NL east will be the Phils and mets. The Braves pitching is falling apart because of injuries and the season hasn't even gotten started.
tomg, you're certainly entitled to your opinion, and it is a well founded one.
A month ago, I thought this team had a shot to come out of the NL. I'm not going to allow one month to change my mind.
Josh, I hear Ya, I agree, it's a long season and anything can happen from now until september.
Keith, there's no doubt in my mind that the mets will be fighting for the division. It's not a slam dunk that they will win the division like it was in 2006. Once in the playoffs I agree anything could happen.
At this point it would be the 2006 team because they proved themselves.
I can see both sides of the arguement today. Still I think this team has the talent to compete for the NL title. I think it is still early but it gets late fast. Nobody in the east has thrown down the gauntlet yet.
But I think the Mets with their talent should be doing so. And I think that they should be KILLING the Pirates, Marlins, Nats and other teams of that caliber. I also think they have shown the Braves and The Phils don't have much going on. That being said the longer they play around .500 and let those teams hang around the more hope and confidence they will get that they can win.
I think this team is very talented. But they have to learn to counterpunch and counterpunch hard. Until they do the other teams don't fear them. That't the difference between now and 06. The other teams feared them coming in. Even w/Lima time.
Arizona looks very scary to me. They have webb and haren and very good young pitchers from there farm system. They also have a bunch of very good looking young every day players that also came from there farm system. Arizona looks like a complete team. Met fans will get a taste of this coming this weekend.
I know the SNY gun is notoriously slow, but Ollie's velocity looks down
I wonder if he's taking some off to try and throw strikes
When I watch perez pitch I need to take rolaids because this guy just drives me insane. Perez will never be a good pitcher because he has no control. I understand why the pirates gave up on him.
Omar, Please, I am begging you, This guy is not worth the money, let him go and get the draft pick.
Willie, I don't care if his arm falls off, let him stay in there until the seventh and I could care less if he gives up 20 runs.
Perez is delusional if he thinks he's going to hit it big in FA….
And this inning gets worse because Castillo makes a boneheaded play.. Sigh..
Great, the mets need innings today from there starter and this loser won't be able to make it to the 5th, might not make it out of this inning.
OP is going to be the next Jeff Weaver type of client for Boras. Lots of talent but moving from one team to the next yr after yr b/c he will demand so much $$ and yrs but no one will give it to him b/c of games like this.
5-0… and no one's covering 2nd…
Perez can't even go 2 innings…. I'm so glad this headcase won't be on our team next year..
This type of game is always a danger with Ollie. Sighhhhhhhhh. I wonder if I should even pay attention to this game anymore.
7-0…. Hmm, I think I'm going to change the channel…
Yeah, this team looks like a champion.
Will be interesting to see whether they fight back at all.
Essentially, and this goes back to his starts last season, if the defense isn't perfect behind him, Perez is a basket case. And sometimes when the defense is perfect.
Like I have been saying on this blog for a while. Did anybody notice Jose Reyes standing at short picking his nose while there was a run down. I will repeat it again and again. Reyes has his head so far up his a@@ that he can't find it. When is somebody (willie) going to find it for him.
OP did a very nice job today….. Maybe he would do better if the fans weren't in the words of the great little metsie JK so "despicable"....
you metises sure get killed a lot for team so many of you think is a championship kind of team. Good teams don't get killed so much metsies. And to win a few games poor willie has to use the whole pen even when the billion dollar man is pitching. You're gonna need 100 relievers to get thru the year metsies…. second half of season you better score 10-15 runs a game to have a chance…..
Love blah blah blah W.
JD – You were saying? About having to win games like this? OP is out, Figeroa in. Actually that could be good for the BP if he can go his usual 5 innings.
I still think they can win because of who they are playing. If this had been the Braves or Phils the other two runners would be in by now.
This has been a lovely game so far, and I'm sure there will be some excuse, either by Willie or Perez himself, that the delay had an effect. They better jump on Gorzelanny in the second and third, or this one's over. Smart move by Willie to bring in Figueroa with the day off tomorrow.
I'm trying to figure out why this is a day game when the Pirates only have to go to DC and the Mets have that day off tomorrow. At least we've been playing well in Arizona!
I might have to come to the dark side w/sloppy (aka Darth vader) after this performance following last nites almost give away.
I can dismiss playing a couple of poor games on the road against the Cubs after beating your rival (Phils) on the road. But I can't dismiss playing so poorly to the Bucs at home after beating your other rival (Braves).
JM,
"Will be interesting to see whether they fight back at all."
now that is either extreme positiveness or denial. This game is over. The pirate pitcher who has an ERA of over 7 will probably pitch seven innings and give up a run with this great offense.
If it was the phils I would say yes, mets, forget it, this team has no heart, period. The 86 team would either come back or start a brawl.
When I see (actually follow on mlb gameday) a game like this it just makes me lose a lot of confidence in Oliver Perez. Its not that a good team can't overcome this type of game. They can. But it makes me wonder how good they really are if Oliver Perez is not the starter that a lot of Met fans assumed he was. I mean really deep down inside, do you really think that Ollie will repeat his performance of last year. I don't know. I'm doubtful. I'm hopeful but doubtful. But lots of Mets fans just penciled him in for 15 wins. That was based on 1 good year after like 4 bad ones. If he does I'll consider it good fortune.
Hello Hello from DC. Let's see where the game goes from here. That should tell you a lot. Let's see if the hitters pick up for (Stan Laurel and)Oliver (Hardy) or if they go quietly in the night.
I seem to remember that you (DC) are a Nats fan? Is that correct? As much as you make me laugh, I gott ask, why are you spending so much time on a Mets blog? What I really think is tha you are a Mets fan using a lot of sarcasm and silliness to point out – well, whatever you are trying to point out.
I'm not sure how a brawl makes up a 7 run deficit…
It will be interesting to see how they respond in Arizona…
tomg,
I don't think the point is whether they win. The question is whether they make it interesting, like so many teams have done to the Mets when they jump out to a lead. I'm not in denial about anything. They stink pretty good right now.
ok first – last night's game was a wash. Yes they won but I hate to use the excuse it was cold. I saw several pitchers struggling to get through and not just Duaner, Johan or Billy. You know, I actually felt BAD about how Aaron Heilman was being booed so hard before even coming on the field last night. In any case, yes it's early and there are a lot of kinks to work out. I'm not going so far as to say this is a playoff-caliber team – but the NL East seems a little off this year and I think the Mets will eke it out. Howver it IS early as someone mentioned and please – aren't both Florida teams leading their respective divisions? Yes, like that's sustainable. As for the 7-run implosion of the Mets and explosion of the Bucs, it happens even to the best/worst of teams. That's what is great about baseball. there are three things to be concerned about now as far as I'm concerned for this game. 1.) bullpen weariness – wasn't everyone (but joe smith) used last night) 2.) carlos delgado's decline everywhere – offense, defense, etc and 3.) Luis Castillo. Nuff said, I won't even insult anyone by bringing Oh Pea into the mix but if it's even the slightest bit cold out there today, he's gonna have a bad game. Is anyone watching it? Did the ump make questionable calls? Sounds like a classic Oh Pea meltdown if you ask me
Game over.
This team doesn't have the passion to fight back in this game. They look like a team that was out partying last night and don't want to be out there playing, pathetic.
John, can you promise me that tomorrow's lead will say something about how the Mets probably wished the water main had not been fixed? Thanks in advance.
Tiffany: Yes. Sometimes it's better not to play.-JD
Full disclosure, I never liked Willie as the Mets manager:
After today's top of the 2nd inning pitching and fielding display, Willie should be fired as Mets manager. He clearly has lost this team and cannot get them back. These players are completely somewhere else. I cannot stand to watch the continued regression of this .500 team!
Not that I am a big Willie fan, but how does firing him make OP picth better or the defense do the right things?
oh clm, you silly happy metsie. you are almost a distinct kind of metise. a metsie who has a good time. I was a metsie once living in yankee land in the Bronx we were a metsie family and then I ran away to the nation's capitol and I stayed a little metsie until holy cow big bad bud selig said we have a baseball team and I went to a natsie game and i found something I never found in the parking lot stadium… people went to a ballgame to have fun…. So since I have family who still want to be little metsies I have to follow them and then I found Delcos and this is the perfect place to have fun with all the little mestsies because its the right size to get to know guys and gals like you and grumpy Mike C,..... So if a few metsie fans start having fun again maybe I'll be a little metsie again someday….. But I think the metsie fans are just grumpy and we all know why…. because the metsies will never be the # 1 team in NYC….. Soon we have to get on the metro to go see the nats and have fun….. See you tomorrow metsies.. have fun…. go mow your lawns or go back to work… because this game is going to make you grumpier…..
Love and kisses from the capital city of the United States of America, the District of COLUMBIA!!!!!!
BTW: I saw the Pacino movie, ``88 Minutes.'' Go see it. Al's hair has looked better, but it's Pacino.-JD
...or you could write something about how it all went swirling down the drain…
Scoopcoop:
My point is willie has lost his team and they play like crap because of it….might as well replace him now to try and see if that snaps these players out of their funk because he will clearly be getting the boot after the season.
If they boot Willie they should boot Omar too. He brought the players here.
Anyway 14-12 is fine. But it is an ugly 14-12.
BTW, I am kind of out of the loop on this blog recently since I haven't visited it much this season (sorry JD). My question is is HellofromDC/PelhamPkwy a mental patient or a 10 year old kid? Anybody have a clue?
I am not surprised by Opee's 5 walk count. I commend Willie for at least pulling this dude out early. I guess it could have been earlier but anybody can play monday morning quarterback.
What's with Opee? Is it the pressure to perform for Free agency? That's funny because the pressure should be off by now based on the way he has been pitching. It's going to really hard to find a scout who will give him good credit. I see hom tomg could want to leave him in there, however, it is early in the game and the Mets can come back.
Whether the Mets are a championship team is not the question. They have the guys for it. They have the talent for it. Maybe it is direction and there lack of. Man..4 batters in one inning…just brutal..
I predict changes come next month…regardless of their standing…I just can not see the Wilpons taking this…
Since this seems to be the major topic now..
If you can Willie and Omar …..
Then who are the possibilities to take their place?
maybe Omar did bring in bad or old players, but their is a point when the manager needs to motivate and Willie clearly has not the proper skill set to affect change in his players….fire Willie today, please. I can't take it anymore!
ChiliGTC – You've actually got a good point, even though I'm not an advocate to fire Willie.
JD – You should have mentioned for the young (and old maybe, I don't know) ladies out there that Ben McKenzie, Ryan from The O.C. is also in 88 Minutes. Maybe it will get a more diverse crowd, I don't know. So I'm guessing you didn't see 21, then? I wanna know how that one is, too.
ChiliGTC,
My suggestion is don't even bother reading his nonsense. I skip that moron when I see his name and don't read his post anymore, I suggest people on this blog do the same. If you keep responding to his moronic post he will keep coming back. The guy is a major loser.
Runnin Rebel: fire Willie and maybe go interim mgr with Manuel (I am not in the clubhouse so I don't know if the players will react positively to him) or maybe go outside and get a tough motivator type…..?
Despite Willie's good move to bring in Figueroa, why bother taking him out now? That's so stupid. This is just like a start for him. Save the bulllpen, jeez!
Frankly I am sick of that type of whining about firing Willie.
I am not saying I disagree with the notion but whining is just plain stupid.
Plus if you fire him..who takes over… you don't just can someone without having a replacement in mind.
I wish Willie would just say after the game flat out we did not come to play and that OP stunk out the joint.
Instead Willie will make up some bs about not getting the breaks and if we did we would have been right in it.
This is what infuriates the fans. We know we are watching
A team playing really bad today but Willie thinks were idiots.
Pacino was great in Heat …my favorities of all time
Look at Gorzelanny gutting it out; I wonder if one of the Mets will ever do something like that this season.
I don't even know why I said that; just need to vent some frustratoin, I guess.
Wow, just got home from class… wtf happened?
If it is the one thing that really pisses me off about Willie is all the F-ing BS that he feeds the medias and expects us the fans to believe. Either that or he truly believe what he says…If that is the case then their is something wrong with him attitude.
I 100% agree with Scott on that last comment.
Oliver Perez is flat out a horrendous pitcher. Like someone mentioned earlier, I "hoped" he would do well this year but I pretty much knew that he probably could never come close to matching last year's 15 wins. I mean, even that was a fluke…I dont think there was ever a start last year where he took the mound and I felt any confidence. Just look at his end of the year start against the Marlins…he stunk.
If he leaves at the end of the season then good riddance. He's useless, and will never be a reliable starter in this league. He's got no command, can barely ever get thru 5 innings, and he just loses his focus way too fast.
I was willing to watch the rest of this game, but not after this stupidity. It doesn't look big today, but when you look at the exhausted bullpen later in the season, you can point to this game. Someone has to ask Willie about this. I'm guessing he'll say, though, that Figueroa didn't get his normal amount of time to warm up as he would for a start, so don't even waste your breath.
RR and Scott: No manager would ever make that kind of statement so getting on Randolph for not doing so is silly. If he were ever to do that, he'd lose the respect of everyone in his clubhouse, for essentially throwing someone under the bus.
I agree Perez sucks…but what about Castillo's error…that didn't help matters. And what about the fact that this team can't hit worth crap against a crappy team. It's not just all one person's fault
are you kidding me? This is pathetic.
I truly like baseball, Strawberry was my hero back then
I stopped liking after a strike that lasted for a while but listening to this on the radio is not fun. It is like they giving up.
The Met fans are starting to think the game is not fun anymore after hearing/watching their team play like it's a chore.
I can't believe these losers only have one hit off such a crappy pitcher. These guys should all be ashamed of themselves. This team is NOT making the playoffs. They suck.
Wow, I just got back from a meeting. Thank g-d I didn't listen to any of this debacle!!!
RMK? What are you talking about?
"RR and Scott: No manager would ever make that kind of statement so getting on Randolph for not doing so is silly. If he were ever to do that, he'd lose the respect of everyone in his clubhouse, for essentially throwing someone under the bus."
What statement?
Is this suppose to link to something I said?
There is something wrong with this team, whether it's the manager, the players themselves, who knows but there is something wrong and I can't see this going on the entire season, something has to give, either player movement, coaches , GM's getting fired, something.
Like I said I would not rule the Mets out this year….
I think the Wilpons are pretty set on their word.
Changes…
Speaking of which..It is also crazy how things change after the AS break.
I don't know if Willie has lost the team or not. Sometimes things snowball. The defense and offense have left the game because they were put in such a hole. For some reason this team gets down when there is a large hole. I would think it would take the pressure off.
As far as Hello from DC is concerned he explained himself pretty good I think and he makes me laugh. He is I think a Mets fan that has found a way to cope by humor and laughter instead of all this doom and gloom. I do like to enjoy baseball.
This team has been frustrating since 1962. Have to get used to it of find another team. Believe me. Don't know what else to tell you.
As far as whether to fire Willie? That is coming soon I think. As long as this funk continues he will be gone. The Wilpons and Omar are not going to tolerate this for long. Unsure if I agree or disagree but it is going to happen. I guess if the replacement does well I think it will be good. Sometimes a manager's time is just up. I hope for Willie's sake he turns it around soon.
As far as Omar – I think that in this case you gotta say he did a good job to this point. Pedro, Santana, Church, Shneider, and a turn around of sorts. Some bad moves too but all in all this is a team that should be playing solid, crisp, baseball, on both sides of the ball.
something does have to give…I think everyone here also knows that these guys have talent…
We even seen Opee have talent too….Sure this season has been lousy for him but we did see what he has done before. If he did it once he can do it again and again and again. The talent is there…He did not just get lucky pitching in Florida.
John, can you drop off a copy of that Tom Ermanski fielding video at Angel Pagan's locker? Thanks in advance.
Maybe this will turn out to be a positive. Stick with me here.
If this team is just "going through the motions" like so many claim they are (and to be honest, it's impossible to deny this is true), then getting their butts kicked could be the best thing for them.
This team may have had the attitude they could just waltz onto the field and win b/c they were the Mets. And for the most part, they've been in every game, so they could just say BS like "well, we didn't get the breaks" or "it's a long season, we'll be ok." This could be a wake up call and they could become more assertive as a team.
Or it could be pointed to as foreshadowing what is to come.
Or it could just be April.
clm, all teams in all sports are frustrating to their fans.
I agree with clm.. many points well taken.
As far as HfDC is concerned humor is one thing, rubbing it in our face is another.
I don't think any fan here goes around beating themselves up over this team… Sht being a Mets fan is frustrating enough however… I could not even begin to imagine playing on this team right now. What kind of spirits are going on in that clubhouse?
I can never get use to this performance….
Switching to another team is just wrong on all levels.
Thank God Gary and Ron are so entertaining. A beautiful sunny day and here I am watching every painful inning. This would have been a good day to start the second string. It would have been easier to take. This is not a good way to head out to Arizona.
Keith I hope that all of that is true. But to how much more ass kicking is it going to take? (No need to really answer)
I mean, is this enough? Things could get worse.
Keith,
IMO this is the team the Mets have and that is a .500 team. The mets have been a .500 team since the start of the second half of last season. The jury is out whether that is because of the players or the manager but this is a mediocre team. The theme some met fans go with "it's early" I don't by but everybody is entitled to there opinion. The fact of the matter is this has been a .500 team since the second half of last year and I don't see any reason that it won't be for the rest of the season. This is the last time I'm saying it, let it play itself out and see where it goes.
That DC idiot is not a met fan, if anything he is a yankee fan who comes on another teams blog to antagonize and see what
reactions he will get, total loser, just ignore his post and don't respond to the moron and hopefully he will go away and if not who cares because where not reading his moronic post anyway so it won't matter.
On any given day, you can explain away the obvious (e.g., Oliver Perez couldn't find the strike zone; Carlos Delgado is in a slump), but what happens when you're explaining this way every other game? And what point does it end?
If nothing more, there seems to be a real focus/concentration problem with this team—and I think that goes directly back to the manager, who is responsible for correcting that, but, from where I sit, seems to tolerate it.
This either the worst game the Mets have played of the best game the Pirates have played…
The Mets being labeled as a .500 team is BS.
Florida is in first place
With that being said, I think that shuts that .500 idea down.
Thank you rebel for bringing some sanity to this discussion.
Last year has nothing to do with this season. I'm not getting into this again, but we have made some key additions.
Plus, did '06 have anything to do with '07? No, it did not.
"The Mets being labeled as a .500 team is BS."
Oh really, I'm not talking out of my a@@, check there record since the second half of last year. The mets record from than till now is treading above .500. It is what it is.
Keith – I thoguht that so many times last season, and now I know that it won't affect them either way.
I don't know how anyone can think Willie will gloss over this loss. I'd be shocked if he did. I bet he won't, and he'll be appropriately pissed at his team. He probably won't say Ollie "stunk" ... he'll be more diplomatic than that. But he's not going to sugar-coat Ollie's performance or the poor play of the team today.
Ok, forget about last year than, it's still barely a .500 team 14-12. Wait until after this weekend.
I think '06 affected '07…and I think '07 is affecting '08. I think the endings of both '06 and '07 represented traumas for this team, traumas which have gone largely unresolved. They need to turn a page, even it is only in a symbolic sense. You can't simply re-assemble the same cast of characters and hope for a different outcome.
tomg..There is no reason for me to get into that one with you other than..
".... I don't see any reason that it won't be for the rest of the season."
based off this part of your statement..and off of inductive reasoning.I do not agree.
runnin rebel,
that's fine, everybody has there opinions, that's what makes the world so great, freedom of speech. What have you seen that makes you think that this team isn't a .500 team?
Well Keith, if this team doesn't take something from this game, like the embarassment and humiliation of today's game, and learn from it there is truly no hope.
Well just for comparison sake…The Stankees.
Last year most people did not think they were going to make the playoffs and they did.
The Mets:
Last year most people thought that they would make the playoffs and they did not.
Florida is in first
Tigers are in last
A lot of variables can change especially since the owner has clearly made high expectations. Not to mention. The Mets did beat.
Braves
Phillies
Marlins
Nationals
They did it once or twice, they can do it again.
However based on their performance alone..I do not know what to think. But calling them a .500 team right now? That's not fair. Wanting to fire Willie? Fair because someone has to eat the blame. He is first in line.
well, if you look at one of my post up on top I called it. I said knowing this team they will get one run from a guy who has a era over 7 and that's exactly what happened.
are you happy now?
what is the point of that statement?
Are you happy now?
runnin rebel,
I see what you are saying but as of now the mets after todays lost will be 14-12, that to me is treading .500, it is what it is. I know it is only april but unless I see something different from this team I don't see much change. saying that something has to give, either player personal changes or organization changes but something has to give.
Heilman is untouchable when it matters.
I understand being irritated but calling the Mets to fail just does not make any sense.
Happy, not really, knowing my team, most definitely. It seems though I see a different team than others do on this blog.
Believe me runnin rebel I'm not happy to say the least. I am truly disappointed in this team. I know I'm not the only met fan that thinks this way. Everybody keeps saying it's early, fine. Have you noticed though when we play teams from out of our division we get killed. The mets will now go play more teams out of our division, lets see how good they do.
What seeing them as a failure? Or Not living up to our expectations? I think we all see that.
Say what you want I guess but calling them out for ill-will usually never helps this sort of situation.
As for me, I would not say for my team to fail that day and then say I called it. That's just me though.
tomg, but that prediction is like saying it's going to be wet during a rainstorm.
The team is playing poorly. I know it. You know it. Rebel knows it. Delcos knows it. And the team knows it.
But there were many (and not just Mets fans) who thought this team was the team to beat in the NL. I'm not going to just throw my hands in the air and proclaim that they are a .500 team after 26 games.
Maybe the guys on the Mets have a similar attitude…which is hard to bounce back from.
They see themselves as a disappointment.. and self fullfill that role..
I really wish we all could know what Willie is saying to motivate these guys.
I understand what you guys are saying. They better get it together quickly because they are going to play the best team in the national league as of today.
I agree with Keith in that we as the fans should be saying "it's early."
However, that is the last thing I want to hear from a manager who had a terrible ending to a previous season.
tomg – You actually were wrong; Gorzelanny shut them out over five innings! But he left because he hurt his back.
I can't believe Figueroa and Smith weren't the only people to come out of the bullpen. Better yet, Smith didn't even pitch! I hate to pile on Willie, but I've never liked his in-game moves and think he is a moron today!
As they say…and it is something I have experienced at my job lately is this: "It is going to worse before it get better"
Hopefully they get it out of their system sooner than later.
wow, I just heard willie say "I'm not concerned about today unless it becomes a trend". Hello willie, are you kidding me" Trend, reyes with mental mistakes, team not hitting especially in the clutch, perez again, no control, this is not a trend!!!!
How is it most of the team is not doing well? I mean most of the team
When it comes to any media… nobody on the team is going out of their way to say how Well Willie doing or even defending him like the way Torre was defended.
spiderpig,
bad break for me, I missed my call by two innings, LOL, actually, this isn't funny anymore, it's pathetic.
Poor words of wisdom for the boss.
I really think he is getting the boot soon. It is just looking that way. You just don't say the same things when you get your ass kicked vs. losing by a run or two.
unless something changes with this team I got a feeling Willie isn't going to last past the all star break.
Tiffany makes an excellent point: "I think '06 affected '07…and I think '07 is affecting '08. I think the endings of both '06 and '07 represented traumas for this team, traumas which have gone largely unresolved. They need to turn a page, even it is only in a symbolic sense. You can't simply re-assemble the same cast of characters and hope for a different outcome."
However, teams can react both ways to a bad ending. The 85 team was a great team and had a devastating ending vs the Cardinals. However, they were tough,fighters and they blew the world away the next year. The 69 Cubs were like this bunch. They withered once and never recovered.
They showed some character last nioght, not folding and with this kind of response you just have to feel there are major attitude problems in this clubhouse.
RR: I was talking about Scott's statement (that you agreed with) that Willie should come out and basically say that the "team did not come out to play and that OP stunk up the joint."
i think they should run laps in the plane. or just imagine willie making them take a junk plane like in major league
i think john delcos should be our next manager! this team has serious problem and i think congress needs to intervene and hold a congressional hearing about it, these are SERIOUS problems! As a fan, I object to this bad play, I won't stand for it, this is my life and I can't be happy knowing my favorite team is playing badly. We (the mets, because i'm one of them) are in big trouble, like going to jail big trouble. With all this losing, baseball is just not fun anymore! Where is the fun? I only like baseball when we win!
Someone made the observation some time ago that the new players come to play and the old players just walk through.
In my opinion the team has played good enough on the field and have not got it going at the plate. Mostly this is Jose. If he gets on and runs the offense goes. It also helps if there is some power in the middle.
That said we are a 500 team. We have major flaws and the team does need to gel. We have a new LF/RF/C and a new #1 pitcher ( as well as 4 /5 ).
I would hope Willie says they played badly that OP needs to get it together. Someone was complaining earlier this year when Willie was pointing out some things Ollie needed to improve when he won. Perhaps he was trying to avoid this, but it didn't work.
As you say above it is a long season, but the team needs to take each hit personally and look in the mirror and come to play.
I hope it is just early and the team will move on. But they never did last year and Willie said in the offseason he would handle things differently.
Let us see what happens.
Earlier it was said no manager should rip his team after such a bad game. Well two of baseball's great manager Pinella and Leyland have both ripped their current teams when they have player bad and it does not seemed to have hurt.
So why is telling the truth a problem.
Bill Madden wrote a piece last yr about how there was too much FO folks in the clubhouse and how the players could go over Willie's head making it difficult for him to tell guys what for.
Anytime your boss undermines your authority it makes it difficult to get your team all on the same page.
JD, do you see any of these FO distractions in the clubhouse in the past or this yr?
Also heard Jon Heyman (who seems to be pretty close to Mets FO) say on the FAN that Wilpons will only tolerate so much of this and that Omar and Willie better have this team headed in right direction by end of May.
If both are on hot seat and Omar or one of his stoogies is making it difficult for Willie to crack some skulls, he better sit on those jacka$$seS right now and have Willie's back.
Good point Scott…. The time to rip was after that Cubbie series. Back to back lifelessness against a good team….
I didn't like Willie ripping OP when he gave up zero runs because if you rip him when he gives up zero, what do you do when he totally sucks like today? And I think they knew he was going to suck in the first inning when Peterson was already visiting the mound.
Scott P
even Charlie Manual got nasty w/the buffet table after the Phils started off real bad last yr.
I think if Willie did something like that that was so out of character it might scare the $hit out of some guys and wake them up.
Of course if my comments above are correct, some players would just run to Omar or Tony Bernarzard and Willie's tirade would have the opposite effect.
A few things;
-There are FO people in the clubhouse, but nothing I would call a styfling presence.
-I don't buy the Wilpons doing anything by the end of May if the team is struggling. Few owners set deadlines like that. It creates too much pressure.
-I wouldn't mind Willie kicking some butt. I just don't see him doing it. Not like Sweet Lou anyway. That said, this isn't Willie's creation, it is Omar's. He's the one who brought them all together.-JD
"That said, this isn't Willie's creation, it is Omar's. He's the one who brought them all together" By that line of thinking JD, every Gm should be the manager as well. Willie didn't bring em in but Willie should beat some butt. Scoop got it right about Cahrlie Manuel. He also went after one of the beat writers. Maybe you and Willie could fake something that would wake em all up! Why aren't you on a plane to the left coast yet?
Apparently the Braves are a bigger mess than the mets. I heard on espn that the braves are thinking of placing Smoltz back in the bull pen, Hampton today left after 4 innings with the same muscle still bothering him and the braves went in to extra innings against the nats leading 2-1 and the bull pen imploded and they loss 3-2.
The team to look at is the one just to the South, not the one far to the South…...
The official team of the US post office. LOL. Pretty funny, JD. Fits with how they played today. But I think I agree with Willie who said Ollie set the tone. It's a lot for this team to climb out of the hole he put them in. Some teams can do it. But most couldn't. And not these Mets. Maybe that says they are not championship caliber. Or maybe it doesn't.
I also agree with what JD said—**"this isn't Willie's creation, it is Omar's. He's the one who brought them all together"**
I don't know how firing Willie is going to make Delgado revert back to 2005, or help Heilman channel Jon Papelbon, or wake up Beltran's bat, or make Ollie pitch more like Santana. It's not going to turn the laid back personalities of the veterans into energetic hungry players. They are who they are.
Sometimes throwing furniture and curse words around can help. But I think it works mostly for younger players. The veterans will just continue to be laid back and "bored."
I don't think there is any way Willie gets fired during the season—unless the Mets start playing as crappy as the Nats. I don't see that happening. They will play at the very least .500 ball, which won't be enough to get anyone fired. After the season ends, that's a different matter.
Following the game Billy Wagner had the following comments:
“You’ve got to have that willpower and that desire to go back out there and fight,” Wagner said about responding to the Mets’ early deficit. “This guy (Pirates starter Tom Gorzelanny), he wasn’t throwing the ball that well to shut down our offense. Perez has honestly got to step up and know that we’ve just used every guy in our bullpen the night before. He can’t come out there and decide that gee, he hasn’t got it today, and so be it.”
Wagner added: “When you have games like this, it’s very easy to say, ‘Hey, yeah, you’re going to have these games.’ And you will have these games. But when there’s not a lot of effort and desire, that’s when you worry. You definitely want to play a little bit better than we did, but I know everybody is out there doing what they can. As a pitching staff, we have to show up. We can’t go out there and get beat 13-1 by Pittsburgh.”
After reading comments like this and others Wagner has had to say, I have to admit I like the guy. He never hides from the media and says what's on his mind. How refreshing.
It got me to thinking that after his career is over, perhaps he will one day become our version of Joe Gerardi – a future manager. Then again, today's pampered ballplayers would probably revolt and refuse to play for him!
Billy Wagner nailed it on the head when he talked about Oliver Perez. I've said it dozens of times, he's a heads-and-tails guy. You can't rely on him.
What I don't understand about Randolph is why he left him in long enough to allow all those walks.
Once he got to five he should have told Perez he was going seven to save the pen.-JD
Darling always talks about how Davey Johnson said to him one game you are going to stay out there no matter what so figured out how to get some outs or you can embarrass yourself.
I don't know if that would work for OP and i just wonder if he was too amped up facing his old team and just lost it.
Some position player has got to step up like wagner and tell the rest of the team to wake up.
That game was ugly!! It only counts as one loss, right? The only saving grace is everyone else in the division has problems.
I have to look it up but didn't the Mets fire Davey Johnson in late May, 1990? A year and two months after the disappointing NLCS loss to the perceived-to-be-weaker Dodgers. Davey was in a lot of trouble by then with the front office, kept changing his mind every other day how often Gary Carter should be catching. I think Randolph will be (and should be) given the full year.
Baseball is a marathon not a sprint. But even in marathons sometimes you have to go all out.
Delcos, you say now that you've always said Perez is a heads or tails guy, but that's not entirely true, in the past you've said you don't understand what's up with Perez, or that you wish he could bottle his good starts, stuff like that, but i'm glad you're finally coming around, even if you won't admit you weren't so clear about him before. Perez is what he is, there's no wishing with the guy, there's no "what's wrong" with him, he is what he is, and he's basically not very good. I like him a lot, he's a fun guy to have on a team, an interesting personality, but to rely on him as more then a #4/fring #3 starter is a problem. That's why I said at the beginning of the year Maine is much more likely to ascend to be a decent #2 or good #3, then Perez is, but a lot of people around here didn't buy it. Perez as a #4 is alright, but as a #3, he's iffy. But for this team, in this league, he's fine I guess. There's really no good team's besides Arizona, and we won't have to really worry about them until the postseason, so I don't see Ollie holding us back from winning the division, but you won't see me crying when he tries hitting the free agent market. If we end up signing him to a decent deal, then whatever, but no way Omar will overpay him or pay "market" value as they say.
even #4 starters are getting big deals. So eventhough OP has lots of mechanics issues and head issues, I hope they straighten him out and if so sign him b/c when you get down to it, Mets only have 2 guys for sure next yr, Santana and Maine.
I also hope Scheinder gets back soon. Some of the picthers are lost a little w/o him.
from marty noble "The Mets had seen the same sort of performance from Perez last July 26, in another game against the Pirates at Shea. He allowed one hit and no walks and struck out eight through five innings, but he never faced a batter in the seventh. He allowed five runs in the sixth, four after two outs, and his own throwing error made all five runs unearned."
so maybe it is a going against your former team deal….w/OP it is a real possibility that he would be too amped up against the team that threw him away. these are his only 2 starts against bucs…
Delgado, reyes and wright stated that today was just one of those games and so did Willie (although some players said he was pretty ticked off in the dugout).
But Willie's attitude except in a couple of comments here and there seems to be the same as last yr….
Oh metsies it was only one freakin game in April….. Don't go jumpin off the the Brooklyn Bridge please…....
Anyway some of you wrote things about me so I must respond…
Tomg says I'm a Yankee fan… REALLY TOMG…. thanks for that piece of incorrect info. But don't you know the yankees consider you like people consider ants. They only worry about RED SOX not little metsies.
And JK said something about the NATS sucking. Well JK I thought you were smart but when you go to work tomorrow and open up your NY Post and read the standings look at the benchmark of the last 10 games. LOOKY WHO SUCKS more than the NATS do now. THE NEWYORK METS, that who JK.. And for the whole season we have 11 wins and how many do you overpaid metsies metsies have ONLY 3 MORE Than us. THE METS SUCK JK…!!!!!!!!!!
PS: Lovely games today. Sorry I couldn't stay for the whole metsie game but the boss took us all to the Nats game. Guess what. NO BOOING. I bet they booed and lost their voices at the parking lot field….. And we won AGAIN…. Holy mackeral the Nats are on a roll…...We're gonna pass the metsies next month!!!!!!!!!!
Poor OP, pitches a 2 hitter and bad Willie takes him out….
Now weren't you mr unoriginal making fun of the nats for having a bad the other day???? Well make fun of your overpaid metsies… 7 runs and 2 little hits is very exceptional by a metsie pitcher or any pitcher isn't it ? That's really hard to do.
Sorry Metsfan: I've always called OP a heads-tails guy. You're wrong as usual. If OP were as consistent as you he would win the Cy Young.-JD
But with this team, if they ran laps, at least three new and exciting players would end up on the DL.
Sorry for the last post, guys. I'm having a bad day. In reality, the Mets are just struggling; they'll take the division in the end. Have faith, guys!
Meanwhile, the Nats SUCK. BOOOOOOOOOO on them. I call the Nats GM Jim BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOwden! LOLOLOLOLOL! Seriously, I wish my team had a chance to win this year like your Mets.
LET'S GO METS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I am glad Wagner said what he said. Eventhough he does have foot-in-the-mouth disease every now and then. He seems to fit a leader role. Other than that last blown save (which was not entirely his fault) he manages to back up his work so far.
I want to say this is one game. (heck the Brews got beat up too). However, its more of the poor defensive that really gets me. This seems like it happens a lot with these guys.
For real never mind the batting for a moment. Defensive wins games too and the Mets are pretty bad at it so far this year. It makes me wonder if Willie even had them practice fielding and DPs during ST.
errors from
Pagan
Wright
Delgado
Castillo
Reyes
and Wild pitching appears like a bad habit.
Lack of batting, Lack of command from the rotation, and Lack of effective bullpen would not be so magnified if it was not for all the terrible fielding that this team has done.
Make good throws or Do not throw at all.
Keep your head down until you grip the ball with the glove. Dont assume you have the ball.
Dive for the ball. At least make it look like you tried. (D-wright is excused from this)
Use two hands when catching the ball (I rarely see this now a days)
Know what do when the is a force out and where the ball is going and who is covering what. Know what out it is during the inning.
All these defensive tactics are fundamental. They teach this stuff in little league. Since when has this changed?
Some poor imitator said that I said "Sorry for the last post, guys. I'm having a bad day. In reality, the Mets are just struggling; they'll take the division in the end. Have faith, guys!
Meanwhile, the Nats SUCK. BOOOOOOOOOO on them. I call the Nats GM Jim BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOwden! LOLOLOLOLOL! Seriously, I wish my team had a chance to win this year like your Mets."
All the metsfans shoulkd be more like METSFAN and clm. They are the best metsies in the world. They have fun and defens their little metsies no matter how bad they are. If the rest of you metsies were like metsfan and clm I'd have to leave because I'd have done my job, by the way this is the 5th anniversary of the President of the United States States saying mission accomplished. I guess Bushie and Minaya are the two worst at what they do guys in the whole United States of America…..
Have a nice day off little metsies. Go have a beer and relax. Tough weekend coming up…
You should have faith cause you sure don't have a team that earns its salary do you? Even runnin rebel says you should play better at a very youthful age, right runnin rebel, see I agree with metsies… Why do you get upset with me. I'm just ahead of you a little because I don't love the metsies I see your coming plight more easily..
Little metsies you must be really seriosuly getting worried that I am right, which of course I am.
Thanks for being me who ever you are.
Must have been tomg since I already know so many of you are me So I'll add me tomg to the me Hello list…
Right about what? Getting rid of Omar and Willie?
The Mets will not know for sure unless they do it and things all of a sudden get better for the Mets.
Me upset with you? I don't agree with you rubbing words in our face but you are who you are.
Castillo's old team took a dump yesterday as well. Marlins got smoked.
It's ridiculous how the Mets are still tied for 2nd place. That's funny.
Mets have performed pretty well against the Dbacks in AZ last year. But then again ..that was last year.
Just got back from seeing my pyschiatrist. He says I had to take my meds regulrly. I was skipping them. They make me eat way too much. I feel like pig at times. But when I skip the meds I get loony. So sorry I was leavings so much gibberesh here. I will try to take my meds in the future. But I cannot promise. Oh well. What can I do? I am just not right in the brain. I was dropped on my head by my sister when I was baby. So have pity and understasding. luv, me
You ever read that "Kathy" comic strip? That's kinda what my life is like most of the time! LOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!
"AAAAAAAAACK!" My bathing suit doesn't fit! LOLOLOLOLOL!
Looks like someone wants to be meso bad that they can't stop being me. But you know the real me…. So good try, and if you want to be me badly enough that's ok, i'll change my name and you can be hello from dc pelham pkwy, and I'll be you JK or keith or Tomg or Delcos or sloppy or Bob, or Mr Scoopy or dave or anybody else..
But not Metsfan or clm becaue they are happy metsies!!!!
Things must be worse than I thought… You all want to be like me and be a Nats fan. We don't want you. You little metsies are too grumpy and boo your own team every day. We want Natsies who will appreciate the effort the guys give no matter the result…. So you all stay in the dirty parking lot and get meaner and grumpier with each passing loss….... and win even… Nothing pleases metsies anymore.
Love and kisses….
In 2006 early on the Mets hadn't quite gelled yet. Then they went on a west coast swing against the Dodgers and DBs and they had a great trip. If memory serves they only lost one game and then they were on their way. Also, they have been strong against the DBs for a while. Let's see if they get away from Shea for a while if that helps them.
HelloFromDC – You are just misunderstood on this blog. Number one you make me laugh (I know I've said it before) and B. You are just trying to lighten things up, I believe, not rub our nose in it. I mean you are a Nats fan and you are having fun. That's baseball.
ClM,
I cannot believe that you think that the 2006 d-backs are the same team as they are now in 2008. This d-back team is allot better this year. On the other hand this met team is not as good as the team in 2006. I wouldn't get your hopes up that this met team will have a winning record on this west coast trip. This team has shown no heart or passion. This met team looks uninspired. The d-backs organization has built a team the correct way. The d-backs could be building a team that will be the class of the national league for a while.
I don't know tomg if the D'backs did it the right way. What they did do is stick to a plan and went thru some lean years. Do you think the Met fanbase as impatient as it is now would survive a few down years… I don't think the one thing the Mets do is stick to a plan.
You are certainly right on however when you say they ain't the same D'backs as they were 2 years ago. Maturing kids and a great tandem to start in the rotation ain't a bad start.
why Endy over Pagan: Although Pagan is decent. Endy is much better at running down balls and producing hits.
why Delgado has to go: because he's done. he has injuries since last year. Listen 1 hit a week got Ordonez let go and he was a gold glove.
Church is the man.
Wright is the Man.
Reyes does the right thing when Endy plays. have you noticed???
Beltran has woken up. :-)
The pitching: since last year and since a few years ago. pitching has taken a back seat. These pitchers need to go the long distance… 7-8 innings..
tomg – Don't think I'm thinking that this will happen again. I am just saying that's what happened and maybe they will catch lightening in a bottle. Who knows? Really they are a good team but they just aren't playing like it for whatever reason. If it continues they aren't a good team.
Have a little hope!!! And the Diamondbacks are not the '29 Yanks!!! But they do have pitching.
No team captain. and No one that fires them up. There is something to be said about a manager or someone who will light the spark. Sitting back and letting them flounder isnt always a good thing.
Every day this team starts to remind me of the 2002 team.
The Mets big mistake that year was not firing Bobby during the season instead of waiting till after it was over.
And I am one of the biggest Bobby supporters ever.
Look I know Willie does not hit pitch or field.
But to steal someone else's immortal quote.
"Sometimes you need to kill a villager to save the village."
I also don't buy the line that Omar built this team.
Good managers know how to adapt to things.
Willie has not changed at all from 2005.
He just keeps trying to jam square pegs into round holes.
I am not even sure firing Willie will work, doing nothing may also work. Only time will tell.
Its the injuries and the old men. Small ball vs long ball.
When the long ball doesnt come. the team has to resolve in getting the small ball across.. thats the problem.
DC – I thought you were won over by our inspired play and turned to the dark side. No it was not me who was you. In fact I rather appreciate you. You break up the mood of this place.
I want to see Jose bunt to get on base. Since he is not finding the ball drag it down third and run to first. Then when on go to second. He is not doing that.
dave are you sure you aren't me? Well whatever I guess you clm and Metsfan are good little metsies… A growing club!!!
Looking at the otherposts the little metsies are not enjoying the off day. so I'll leave them get angrier and angrier. I think we have a game against those mean Pittsburghers who humiliated the metsies and who humiliated the hockey guys as well…. I don't know anything about hockey but I think we have a team almost as bad as the metsies are… Are there any hockey fans around here???
No it was not me. If I were to play you it would be somewhat more subtle than going against everything you stand for.
Many here think you are insane. I do not have that opinion. There is certainly a method to your madness :)
Wow, dave they think I'm insane!!!!!!! I'm not a metsie fan….