Mets Chat Room: Trying it again
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- April
- 29
No matter how good or bad a team is, it will win and lose 60 games a season. That’s 120 out of 162 games. More often than not a team needs 85 victories to contend. That’s 25 wins added to the 60. That’s 145 games, leaving 17 games remaining that could go either way.
It’s what a team does in those 17 games that determines if it makes the playoffs. Tonight they won a game they could have, and perhaps should have, lost.
What stands out for you tonight?
This entry was posted
on Tuesday, April 29th, 2008 at 5:29 pm by John Delcos.
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I haven’t been following too closely – did we find out how that thumb became infected? Ewwww. Why didn’t they just put Schneider on the DL anyway instead of droppign Clark?
I heard it was a blister that caused the infection. JD, you can correct this if I’m wrong, but it sounds like the main reason Alou will not play until the weekend is that Schneider is not back yet and the Mets don’t want to make a roster move to get Alou on the squad until they can send down Molina.
Alou back on Friday!
Thank god.
JM, I actually think that they are going to re-evaluate Brian thursday or tomorrow and if he can’t be with them on the trip that they will DL him and then activate Moises.
But you are probably correct.
pvhornet05,
Yeah, it all depends on when Schneider is due back. But you make a good point that if Schneider isn’t back by the weekend and Alou is ready to rock and roll, they will have to consider sending Schneider to the DL.
I think that if they DL Schneider, though, they can do it retroactively to the day following his last played game, which I believe was last Wednesday. What that all means is that if he would only be on the DL until May 9th roughly if my numbers are correct.
You live with it because of his obvious success, but these homeruns allowed by Johan are getting tiresome.
Good to see Reyes bunt on.
wow beltran was pissed.
JD: didnt the mets look at Zito and he wanted crazy money??? good for us we didnt get him
Not watching…pissed at what?
grounded out. and spiked the bat down.
mad at himself.
I’m only able to follow via gamecast…but is Johan as all over the place as gamecast makes it seem?
yep.
why is delgado still playing?
McClouth hits a HR off us then stealls extra bases. BASTARD.
loging off. need to pay attention to game’
Why exactly has Pagan been stapled to the bench of late?? I’m all for getting some ABs Chavez’s way to keep him “sharp” but he hasn’t done anything in any of the starts he’s had.
JD.
How come Chavez has been starting more recently than Pagan? Nothing against Endy but Pagan seemed to be hitting the ball very well. Defensive, Chavez is a little better but I thought Pagan was still hot.
Have you seen Angel lately? He’s been stinkin it up. He is a 4th or 5th outfielder, and now he is playing like it. He is not the second coming. But I like to see Beltran get ticked off. Not b/c he will play better b/c of it, but b/c you know he cares, despite what some people think.
Ummm…Pagan isn’t the second coming of anything. But that doesn’t mean when he slumps you staple him to the bench in favor of Chavez who has done NOTHING at all this year.
I love Endy as much as anyone for what he’s done for the club…but he’s living off that catch at this point. He doesn’t drive the ball, for a guy with speed he never steals and he grounds into an insane amount of DPs.
To Steve C.: Yeah, the Mets considered Zito, but the money and years were ridiculous. A big difference between Zito and Johan Santana, is that Zito was on a three-year decline from his best year. I am on record for not wanting them to go after Zito and Santana because of the years. So far, I have been right about Zito. Hopefully, I will be wrong about Santana.-JD
Mike: Agreed. I’d take Pagan over Chavez any time.-JD
I logged back on to complain: 2 HRs by santana?!
ggrrr
Thanx JD: i thought that was the case with Zito. another Mesina ;-p
right now Santana isnt looking too good. he needs to shake it off..
Ugh…why does he give up so many HOMERS!?
This might be me, but does the opposition foul off an INSANE amount of pitches v the Mets???
yea i agree with the last two peoples’ question, JD, why does it seem that all Santana does is give up homeruns and nothing else?
Well…I know “why” he does it. My question was more rhetorical and out of frustration.
He’s around the plate, doesn’t seem to throw 95+ anymore and if his changeup is left up…that’s what happens.
to the others: I prefer Chavez over pagan. but I like Pagan, dont get me wrong.
I know whats wrong with the team.
they miss the fire from thr roid rages LoDuca.
man he really hurt me when i found that out. he was my Favorite 2k+ met.
Hope NY takes advantage of Snell’s lack of control…he looks like he’s almost as wild tonight.
Gotta go w/ Endy. Pagan doesn’t “drive” the ball either and Endy’s had 26 ABs all season, so it’s too early to say he won’t hit. Not saying Pagan shouldn’t be on the team, but he has to prove himself for more than a couple weeks and Willie likes to keep the bench guys involved.
Time for Tiffany’s sarcasm I suppose.
No offense Steve…but that fire did nothing to help them last year. I’m of the opinion that the Mets lacked “fire” last year is overblown when compared to ‘06.
I just think the Mets had everything go right for them that year and with the comebacks, bludgeoning of opponents, etc, it just seemed that they had “it”
I really think the only difference between the ‘06 version and the last two is they are inconsistent offensively and the bullpen is less reliable.
At least for a change someone elses garbage turns out to be Met Gold!
way to go CHURCH!
who kept bad mouthing him??? he’s had a stellar year with us so far..
none taken mike.
fricken smelgado bloody hole in the lineup. rally killer…
JM/Steve- No problem with your opinions, though I disagree. But what has Endy done to merit your trust in him over Pagan? Endy has obviously had his moments…and I like the guy, but he never had a 3-week stretch like Pagan just had.
I don’t mind that Chavez has gotten into some games via the start…but he’s now started like 5 of 6 games and after what Pagan had done, I just don’t understand why.
one thing i wont do tho is boo him. when they get rid of him i’ll stand up and cheer but i wont Boo.
i had boo-birds..
one thing i wont do tho is boo him. when they get rid of him i’ll stand up and cheer but i wont Boo.
i hate boo-birds..
i had boo-birds should have been i hate boo-birds..
Mike Chavez doesnt have 3 weeks because Willie has never given him 3 weeks. it was always Alou or someone else..
Chavez is a very clutch player…
I think Mike hit it on the head about Santana giving up a lot of homers. He’s usually around the plate. Another thing, is that when he misses, he does it up. He doesn’t miss down or outside.-JD
To add to JDs post (and to my own), I think that Santana is/will be one of the top pitchers for several more years. That being said, while it is still early and not particularly warm, I think his days of throwing 94-95 consistently are over.
Every start I’ve seen, he’s consistently 90-92.
JD: its all about the concentration. Ron D. says it all the time. you have to work the plate…
we need a 2nd baseman or the other SS to take 1st base.
a bunt to get us on is better than a sure out. Listen if Delgadda go was Kingman. and rocked that ball every 50th at bat during a clutch inning. fine. Kingman sucked in the outfield and sucked at the plate but pitchers were affraid of him..
Pitchers are just owning delgado..
Santana bunting? Isn’t that like having Pujols bunt?-JD
I think it’s a lot more mental with Delgado than people think. I do believe that age is playing a factor (slower bat speed, etc), but I also think he made himself nuts last year at the plate and he’s just kinda lost.
It’s obvious he’s not going to be the ‘06 player, but barring injury, I would still think he could do what he did last year.
He’s a notorious slow starter.
yes!!
and thats why Chavez over Pagan.
fricken rabbits. thats what has been missing Chavez and reyes tag team.
mike: Delgado was done last year. its over. slow start aint it. he’s fricken done.
Mike: The older you are, the more you think of things. He’s had injuries, so there’s always the second guessing of whether a slump is a slump or the nagging thought he might be done. And, when a hitter’s bat speed is a shade slower, he has a tendency to cheat on a pitch by starting his swing earlier. Basically, the more you think the more you can stink.-JD
Reyes making things happen tonight.
JD- That’s my point. I don’t think he’s going to put up anything close to what he’s used to or should…but I think saying he’s “done” on Apr. 29 is still a bit of a stretch.
JMO
Nice blast by Church, but Milledge would have hit it entirely out of the stadium.
We hear a lot about the Mets needing a killer instinct. After that error, this is where they can put the game away.-JD
I feel for the pitsburgh pitcher. That was as easy a double play ball as one can be and sanchez boots it. Snell should be out of the inning.
Snell is the Pirates new Ollie.
Tiffany, I couldn’t agree more, why give up a young player in his early twenties for a never-has-been who’s in his thirties?
Anyone else agree?
This is why you need Alou, so they can’t pull this garbage of walking Beltran.
Mike: trust me .. from last year. delgado is done. everyone rode me because of what i knew. and now everyone agrees. He’s hurt. both physically and mentally. He should take his millions and say thank you.
JM: wrong because if you have Aou you dont have Chavez. and Chavez was key to that play as was Reyes.
What does Alou have to do with Beltran walking?
just wondering
Notice that vertical jump by Church? Would have scored high at the NFL combine.-JD
What a horrible call…
Thanks a lot ump…appreciate it.
church was ROBBED.
hey JM. still think delgado is the man? he left 3 men on base.
not the first and it wont be the last…
Delgado’s two homerun game was a total fluke. He’s done. What kind of veteran strikes out swinging with the bases loaded?
That was one of the worst strike calls I think I’ve ever seen. That ball was a foot outside. I can understand a few inches but that wasn’t even close.
The state of umpiring today is the worst I’ve ever seen it. I’m not old by any stretch (29), but from the inconsistent strikezone’s to bad calls to just plain stupidity on ejections, warnings, etc…umpiring SUCKS.
I really wish that MLB would wise up and try and start dealing with this…but they won’t.
Church is 29. And, he’ll be better for the Mets than Milledge, who has already been disciplined by the Nationals for showing up late. The Mets had three top outfield prospects and kept the one they wanted. Milledge is gone. Let it go.-JD
Get used to delgado and his sucky at bats, he isn’t going anywhere.
The umps have sucked since 1999/Y2K
ever since the whole being able to warn both teams on a beanball. Bunch of EGO babies.
I see what you’re saying, but Church spent too many years in the minors and he never slides in the outfield.
Tiffany, you need to stop seeing what he was on other teams .. and see what he has done for the Mets. he;s been nothing but gold for them.
Less likely to pitch around Beltran w/ Alou behind him rather than Church and then Delgado, for whom the other team can bring in a nasty lefty. And I didn’t see the play Steve C. so I’m not sure what you’re talking about.
Ugly way to end an outing… and once again, a Mets starter can’t even complete 6 innings….
Jeez, he’s been hanging around Perez too much.
if you have Alou. who would have gotten on base and ran from 1st to home so reyes could get a triple? anyone else would have been too slow for reyes.
many times before Reyes would have to put the breaks on.
Johan deserves the benefit of the doubt, obviously. But he was wild early, he struck out 7 and from what I saw on gamecast, PIT was fouling off A LOT of pitches.
Voila..114 pitches.
True Steve C. But Alou’s lack of speed is really besides the point. The offense needs another run producer, and he is the only guy that is coming down the pike.
Heilman is pathetic. Everything about him. From his pitching to his stupid facial expressions
I seriously loathe Heilman… He just reeks of failure…
I agree with not booing players for no reason…then you watch Heilman and you wonder.
STOP BOOO-ing your team!!!
dammit i hate that ..
Amazing what a year, or a few weeks can make.
I’m glad to see Schoeneweis coming in to replace that turd.
I reserve the right to change my opinion in the next few minutes
“What kind of veteran strikes out swinging with the bases loaded?” – Alex L
Answer =
Mike Piazza
Barry bonds
Gary Carter
Keith Hernandez
Babe Ruth +
a holy host of others
I don’t know why they are booing Aaron. He pitched ok.
if you are a fan .. you dont boo!
end of story.
Steve C- I completely agree with you. I don’t like it either unless something really pathetic happens…but Heilman, even when going well, is someone that is impossible to root for.
Like Josh said, he just reeks of failure and it comes through. His body language is self-defeating and his appearances the last 2 weeks have people on edge.
But I agree…I don’t like the booing unless it’s deserved.
This bullpen has to get used a lot because this starting staff can’t ever go more than 5 innings (I give Santana a pass because this is the first time he’s done this) but it doesnt help when Willie goes ahead and uses 4 pitchers per inning. I mean why not just double switch that last inning and let Feliciano go another inning? This is ridiculous
I dont understand this reek of failure bit. Heilman just plain sucks now and anyone trying to read into his body language or this idea that he’s playing poorly b/c he’d rather be a starter is silly. The best way for him to get to being a starter is if he excels in the pen first.
Well…the umpire giveth after taketh away.
RKK- It’s not just when he’s struggling. Just watch him..
That said however, I have no problem with booing him or anyone on this team when the dont get the job done…especially when they make a habit of it. Booing someone as soon as they enter the field however is just plain idiotic.
People like to claim that NY fans are “educated fans that know their teams” but I think that’s all a bunch of BS. Face it, most NY fans are all swayed by the NY media that just THRIVES on negativity and goes out of their way to make an issue out of nothing. This whole Delgado thing (which is totally blown out of proportion) is the best example
Relievers can be up one year (or month or game)and down the next. Schoeneweis is really starting to impress, even with a wild pitch.
So Mike…you’re gonna tell me then that you thought he “reeked of failure” last year too when he was doing well?
Church walked in a run and this guy scored. We are even.
Bautista was out, he never touched the plate…
I’m not reading into his “body language”.. He reeks of failure because he puts us in a position to lose everytime he pitches…
I didn’t say he IS a failure, I said his body language reeked of failure.
Heilman is just lost. I feel bad for the guy.
Wright looks lost too right now. Not that it’s a big deal or anything, but he’s definitely slumping.
Endy vs. Alou vs Pagan
I havent seen Pagan play lately so dont know if he has cooled off or is just getting out. Chavez is arguably the best OF in the league. He has no power and doesn’t run as much as he should but is a steller glove who can stop rallies with his glove. Pagan is a good outfielder who is hot now, while Alou is just a monster.
Since Delgado is done and cannot catch up with a 89 mph fastball offers no protection. If Church bats 6th behind Alou we have a nice lineup with good power. We need more than just David and Beltran.
For this team I would rather have Alou and then Pagan and then Endy. We need bats more than D right now.
By the way in 06 Endy hit 300 and last year 280 so he is not useless with a stick in the hand.
RMKMets. dude.. you havent been watching the games. I have.. delgado is done.
And this why you cannot leave guys on base. Amazing how it always seems to bite this team in the butt.
fricken bullpen.. pitch count. .blah blah blah..
The mets should have had 10 runs this game and now there are going to lose because they left a million guys on base.
I know you can’t win them all, but these are the Pirates and they’ve had their chances to put them away tonight. Not a good showing by the ballclub.-JD
Just ticks me off. This guy is doing well for the team. You cn see he cannot feel his pitches right now. And they boo him? Many METS FANS SUCK!
That was crappy hitting by Paulino. Sanchez caught a break there.-JD
Wow, I thought Castillo was going to drop that pop up after Sanchez pitch his way out of a bases loaded jam.
dm: The new met fans suck. because they are old yankee fans. dude.. my generation never booed. I dont like these new fans at all.
JD- This is what drives me nuts about this team. I know we can’t keep comparing them to the ‘06 club, and even THAT squad had games like this, but you cannot let teams, horrible or good, hang around when you have ample chances to put this out of reach.
Though to be fair, the 5th inning could have been completely different if not for that horrific strike call.
Sanchez caught 2 breaks. Wright and Castillo.
Steve C- There is nothing wrong with booing, if it’s for the right reasons. The Mets final loss to the Phils last Sept at Shea (six errors in the game) comes to mind.
But booing a guy when he steps to the plate or is brought in is assinine. Those are just people that want to be heard, and the followers in the crowd take their cue.
I don’t often agree with Russo/Francesa, but they’re right on about the booing this season from many Mets fans…it’s ridiculous.
Gotta love Duaner fighting through that.
I hope I’m wrong…but the way this whole game has gone just REEKS of being capped by a Wagner blown save.
JM- It sure is. And it’s great to see him back too. He’s obviously not completely “there” yet and he’s not going to be perfect, but having him in the 8th is a nice feeling.
If Heilman can start pitching well again (and the starters start giving length), the bullpen will be fine.
Steve C./Mike,
The booing is just awful. BOOOOOOOOOO to those that boo like this. It’s not helpful and is really low class. Home field advantage? My patootie.
Boo someone that isn’t trying.That’s it!!!
Boy, the Mets really are trying not to win this game, nice throw to first Jose.
Could smell this coming from a mile away.
Thanks for the error Jose, you idiot. The Mets better win it in the bottom half since the bull pen has been used up.
Well, now who didn’t see this coming?-JD
JD- Obviously can’t tell from home. Was this a ball that Beltran would/should have caught if not for playing his usual deep CF??
Not blaming him at all, obviously, but that ball seemed to hang up there forever and he really wasn’t all that close.
Johan starts. Against the Pirates. At home. And the Mets need to blow through their pen and maybe go to extras to possibly win it. Unreal. Jose’s trying to make up for it, though.
Let’s hope now Jose gets back the damage his error caused. Luis get the bunt down!
I’m sorry…but you need to try and steal there before trying the sac. I can see the pros/cons for both, but it just doesn’t make sense for Reyes to not at least try.
If he gets thrown out, so be it. He’s got over 200 steals the last 3 years…if not then, when?
Nothing is easy w/ this team.
Awesome…Beltran and Wright: 0-for-7 with a combined 9 LOB.
I really can’t blame fans for booing, this team stinks, 140 million dollar payroll and they struggle to beat the pirates. If you think this is bad wait until they play the better teams. Lets see how good they do against arizona, they probably will get killed just like they did against the cubs.
And tomorrow is a day game and Wagner will not be available.
Unreal.
5 errors for Reyes now, 24+ games in.
O ye of little faith – They will win this game and won’t need Wagner tomorrow anyway. And they don’t suck. Believe me they will tighten up as the year goes on.
This is how the rest of the game will go. The Mets will not be able to get another run across and sooner or later the pirates will get one or more home, game over. Thanks to, I got my head so far up my a@@ reyes, I can’t find it.
I have plenty of faith…and I’m not even a negative one by trade. But they need OP to step up BIG tomorrow or, if not, to take a beating because they can’t go into a tough series in AZ with a bullpen that is worn out because of the f’in Pirates.
CLM,
I’ve seen enough of this team last year and this year. I have lost all faith in this team. This is why i think met fans at shea are booing this year because they know this team is not very good.
Arizona is going to kill the mets, not because of this game, because arizona is a much better team than the mets.
I can’t watch Sosa good or bad. Guy just makes me queasy.
Amazing how good Sosa can look when he’s not used 8 times a week.
Willie, take notice.
tomg- Why don’t you go root for another team then? If you’re so fed up with them and have no faith, why watch?
Moises is back. Maybe he will energize this offense.
Give sosa time, it will come, homerun anybody.
These guys’ arms are gonna fall off. How much longer can they go like this? The pen pitches 4 innings a night.
Mike, that’s a good question. I’ve been a met fan since 1968, I wonder why myself sometimes. I guess I like rejection.
Ray- Oh he will. The question is just for how long he’ll be in the lineup.
tomg-LOL
Endy making me look like a fool tonight!!! lol
The Mets need to score now, they can’t afford to pitch anymore innings.
1969 for me. 7 years old and they won which turned me into a big fan. Never knew the heartache that decision would cause. But that being said it seems that nobody has fun with baseball anymore. I do that’s why I regret all the booing and negative stuff.
Balk – here we go – guy on 3rd base Reyes up. Let’s see if I am a fortune teller.
I will give this up – I like the passion that i see. I realize even down to the booers – it’s because they want this team to win.
I was 10 years old in 1968 and playing in little league. My hero was tommy agee, I also played center field.
Mike,
If Alou gives us 300 ABs I think we will all be happy
CLM, that’s what it is, passion. I get very negative when i get very frustrated and god knows this team loves to frustrate it’s fans.
Usually I would be extremely confident that wright will win this game but he is in a major funk at the plate.
As bad as Wright has been I have a good feeling about him here.-JD
Ok, well, so much for wrights funk. I can go to bed with a smile on my face.
Tomg – Agreed they can be frustrating.
DAVID WRIGHT = Right now there are a lot of Pirates bloggers saying – This team sucks. The difference being – they are actually right.
You need patience to root for this bunch.
Wright is the one guy, bar-none, who I want up in that situation. He may not come through all the time, but he also knows what’s needed in that situation and adapts his approach accordingly…unlike guys like Beltran, Reyes, Delgado, etc….
JM. i rooted for the mets during the good and the bad.
All my life. pretty long time. there were many frustratying teams..
we won! yay. good night all.
JM, that’s the problem. I have patience, NO PATIENCE!!!
I’lll never understand Mets fans. You older Mets fans may have seen your share of dark days, but you saw two World Champions and have seen the team in two other WS. There have also been quite a few solid seasons thrown in there as well. You’ve experienced more joy than many franchises.
Me, I’m 24 and was like 2.5 in ‘86. The only “success” the Mets have had in my lifetime is losing to the Yanks in the WS and losing in the NLCS to the Cardinals.
It really aggravates me to hear knuckleheads like Joe Beningo moan “OH THE PAIN!” At least he’s seen them win a few titles.
Keith – Oh, youth is wasted on the young. Don’t worry you’ll see them win as well. In reality you are right. When you take out a few teams the Mets, in Championships, are a successful franchise. I still have my 1970 team card with World Champs on it.
But remember this – part of the Mets charm is that they are a hard luck franchise. With the exception of ‘69 nothing ever came easy for this team. Even ‘86, with a dominant team took theatrics and kept you close to suicide.
Could live without the “you older Mets fans” comment though – LOL.
Myself I enjoy baseball that keeps you on the edge of your seat.
Doesn’t it seem our bullpen always pitches the worst with our ace on the mound, blowing wins for that starter. It happened with Glavine, then Pedro, now Santana.
How does Sosa have three wins? LOL. I guess a win is a win.
Despite the lack of success in comparison to the Yankees…I’ll take being a Mets fan any day.
I was 8 in ‘86. Not old enough to fully appreciate it like I would now, but definitely old enough to remember and enjoy it.
There’s something to be said for being a fan of this franchise…and I for one am proud of it.
Not that I am going to start booing even ex-Mets but Glavine was an Ace in name only.
I too am proud to be a Mets fan. In ‘69 – ‘70 I became a Mets, Jets, and Knicks fan. Almost enough to send one into depression over many years. But I still am a fan of all of those teams and always will be.
being a met fan is all about next year. ;-)
Keith if you cant hack the wait, then go to the yankees.
Met games no matter how frustrating are always interesting to watch … The Mets have never been cookie cutter..
Steve C. – Not sure switching to the Yanks is goin to be helpful now. I think they are finally on the downswing. Happens to every team. Money just makes it fewer and shorter for them than for many. Still we are considered the 3rd most valuable franchise so I would like to start seeing some of the benefit too.
Steve C: I have finally come around to your point of view on Delgado. He is definately burnt toast. I think the Mets will continue to give him an opportunity to get righted for a few more months, he’ll have an occasional game or two where it looks promising, but in the end he will still be toast.
Steve, do you even pay attention to my posts? I am one of the more reasonable, patient, and optimistic Mets fans on this board.
My point that I make is that Met fans who are older than myself have actually seen then win it all, while I haven’t… yet they still seem to be so damn negative and always seem to expect the worst.
So yeah, I can hack the wait. I’m not the one booing Johan Santana.
Keith, I read your posts and i know you are reasonable.
I dont listen to the bad fans. I dont like fans that watch yankee games just to boo the yanks. I only watch and care about my team.
Steve (original Rays) : welcome aboard .. it took a year but i’ll take it :-)
“I dont like fans that watch yankee games just to boo the yanks. I only watch and care about my team.”
Not sure if this is directed at me, so I won’t respond to it.
Even though I’m a Mets fan, I love baseball in general. So I will watch any and all baseball that is on TV.
Steveey C makes a very intriguing and very metsie like statement that makes me proud he’s a metsie fan:
” I dont like fans that watch yankee games just to boo the yanks. I only watch and care about my team.”
I agree with you Mr C.. Every metsie fan should be like you and save all his/her energy to boo the metsies….. You are a very extraordinary little metsie. I’m very proud of you Mr Stevey C.
I missed you metsies yesterday… Who did you boo last nite?????