What are the Mets' options with Delgado
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- April
- 24
Looking through the rubble of the trainwreck at first base, it’s hard to find any solution.
-It would take some serious stones to eat the contract.The contract prevents them from dealing Carlos Delgado, too. Who wants that burden?
-Sure, let’s trade for Inge. But, who you giving up? Most of their prospects are in Minnesota.
-Benching him doesn’t make sense, because who are you going to play?
-Teaching the position to Alou at this stage of his career, and during the season, isn’t going to happen.
Basically, the way I see it is the most you can do is hope there’s an encore in there.
This entry was posted
on Thursday, April 24th, 2008 at 11:53 am by John Delcos.
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JD, the Tigers don't want prospects, they are playing to win now. If they Mets took on his salary they could probably have him for a useful bullpen arm. I bet they would trade Inge straight up for Joe Smith if the Mets took his salary. If the Mets would deal Heilman, I bet the Tigers would eat some salary.
Even if Delgado just OPS's around .780(about what he did for the entire year last year) its better if they let him play because whomever else they put in there isn't going to do any better. If he continues his current OPS of .589 then they have to bench him no matter how much money they are paying him. You can't have a 1st baseman with an OPS of .589. You just can't give up that much offense at any position and expect to overcome it elsewhere.
Heilman …Not bad idea. Joe Smith bad idea, side arm brings different release point. Takes time for batters to get use to. Plus Smith has a lot of promise.
Heilman gets himself down too much when it hits that fan.
Option 1: sit him
Option 2: sell him
I know Heilman is eager to have the ball all the time (according to Willie on WFAN). He is just trying to win it back.
I see and hear this all too much at work. People play and play trying to win back what they lost. Better to go to sleep… take a day or two off from playing and the go back and "try" to win your money back. If your smart know when you have the luck and when you run out of it.
Not that pitching is luck but you have to know when your on your game and when you need time off.
Xreference this with Delgado too with similar variables.
Yes, JD has it right. Pray for a renaissance, b/c there are no other options w/ Delgado. And just so we're clear, Aaron Heilman will not, and should not be traded for any 2-bit Joe Schmo. As bad as he's been, the Mets can't afford to give him away for a .241 career hitter like Brandon Inge. Heilman will be a plus before the season is over.
I think it is reasonable for most of us to have our doubt on Heilman like we do on Delgado.
Why would we trade our pen?
So we can blow up in September again?!
I say do it!
Runnin rebel,
You can doubt him, but you just don't have a choice but to hope he keeps the big hits to a minimum. If you could ditch one reliever from the pen, Heilman wouldn't even be the first to go. At least Heilman has a track record of success, whereas Jorge Sosa is like London during the Blitz: totally bombed out.
There is a choice. It just may not be the one they are willing to sacrifice for a better shot at the WS.
What about giving the youngsters Carp, Evans and Murphy from AA a shot at 1st base?
Carp has been hot and cold the last couple of years. If he can keep up his current torrid pace, then he certainly is stating his case for a call up at some point. I don't see Omar doing anything rash. Is Brandon Inge really the answer? I would never give up Heilman or Smith for a player who will be a marginal upgrade over Delgado. That would devastate our pen. Have faith, we're only 21 games in.
If you watch, listen about and read about the Mets then you should know that they never eat contracts or sit guys who are making 16MM.
Mets are not gonna take on more money. Again, if you watch, listen about and read about the Mets then you should know that they are near the lux tax level. The Wilpons will never go over the lux tax $ level.
Delgado is going to play the majority of the time unless he hits I-95 for 3 mos.
Alou will hit 5th in the order and Delgado will hit 6th.
That will force Willie to hit Church in the 2 hole b/c if he doesn't than you will have 3 lefties 6-8.
If Alou can be healthy (a big if) and Church keeps hitting lefties (not a big if), then Mets can score some runs.
Mets don't have to be a great team to be in the playoffs. The NL East is looking pretty mediocre and they are 10-5 against the East.
Keep winning against the Nats and Marlins of the world and you can be so-so against the rest.
I know it's not our money, but who wants to burn $16 million in the trash? To say that you just dump him may be correct from a performance point of view ( esp for 1b ), but that is a lot of duckets.
One thing he did do was walk to the mound and give the pitchers a break. But we have a catcher to do that now.
Eric R,
You win the prize for making the first sensible post. And if Brandon Inge is the answer, I rather not ask the question.
What about Craig Wilson? He's always had a solid bat and probaly won't have to give much for him.
Anyone else catch Gary and Ron's point last night about how the game is changing – that we can't assume it is a veteran's game anymore? They mentioned the elimination of greenies as a reason, something that particularly affects the older players. Sometimes you have to give the young kids a shot. I understand that this is NY, they wanna win now, etc. However, if Delgado keeps doing what he's doing, I don't see why we shouldn't just bring up Carp and give him time at 1B. I know he's not a phenom, and I know there is a chance he possibly wouldn't produce anymore than Delgado is now. But, he would inject some youth into a team that is way too old, and you never know, maybe he'd catch fire. Every year this becomes more and more of a young man's game, and it'd be nice if the Mets took some risks on youth here and there.
the mets have spent more on No Vaughn. so why not just do the same for Pedro and Delgado. it will open up 2 positions for the mets.
Delgado is a sunk cost. So if they need to let him go it's not going to cost the team extra money, unless they're looking to replace him with an expensive player outside the organization.
I think if Delgado continues to slump and field poorly, and Carp continues to hit well, then they should consider bringing him up. Problem is that there is no extra roster spot. So Delgado will either have to go on the DL or be released. Or a bench players will have to go on the DL.
Also to them discuss pitch count. and the lack of aggressive ball play. let the pitcher pitch and let the run .. run down someone blocking the plate.
Delgado is hurt , just like last year, i knew it in my bones and he didnt say anything until end of the season so he could use it as an excuse for poor play. he's still injured just wont sit out. That isnt what is good for the team.
Steve C.
Get your facts straight. 1) Delgado had surgery to repair the wrist he broke on the LAST day of the season. 2) When he was asked during spring training whether his struggles last year were b/c of injury, he said "NO," and did not equivocate. He never used injury as an excuse. His hip may not be perfectly sound, but the problem is that his bat speed and reflexes are severely diminished, and won't return regardless of injury.
Delgado won't sit on the bench making the salary he's making and what team wud be willing to take on the money he is making. Looking for options in house seems to be the logical answer before spending more money for manning 1st base. It's still early in the season.
Nice, I love awards. Do I win a chance to be the new Mets first baseman? I'd be just as good at hitting into groundout RBIs as our current 1b is. By the by,how good does Mike Jacobs look to us right now? If both Delgado and Jacobs keep up their current paces,respectively, that trade could wind up in the loss column for Omar in the long run.
Lost count of how many bad deals Omar made so far. Wonder I many will fall into this category in the future.
I actually like the question Ronnie brought up last night. With every team shifting their infield for Delgado to pull, should he begin hitting opposite field singles or should he continue to pull the ball into the shift and hope he hits HRs.
I would prefer the singles and have his batting average around .280 then have him pull the ball, hope it leaves the yard, and hit .220. JD, what would you prefer?
Do the Mets still have their receipt from the trade? They could get a refund (Mike Jacobs) from Florida.
Delgado's salary can't be determinative. If continues going on this way, there are 3 guys at AA who can do just as poorly at the plate with a possibility of upside, and with better defense and gain some valuable experience. Omar should have addressed this in the offseason by trading Delgado eating as much salary as he needed to eat to get him out of the picture. Too late now, although, maybe if Omar eats, say, 3/4 of the remaining money, he might be able salvage something. A big 1B bat isn't likely to come along this year, so going with the kids is the only option.
They'll put him on the DL, and they'll have their medical staff say he has an arthritic condition with his hip, which has already necessitated a cortisone shot earlier this year.
They'd still be on the hook for the money, but it would free up a roster spot with the least amount of PR damage.
Can they DL him against his will? That would be pretty cool to see.
1. If you agree with Minaya's philosophy of "win now" which hasn't worked yet, then you can't complain about the Delgado trade because in 2006, when this team should have made WS, Delgado had far more skills than Jacobs.
2. If you don't believe in the Minaya philosophy then you don't want the Santana trade, the Milledge trade etc to happen because you have something almost no Met fan has and that is patience.
3. If you want to win now you're not going to be satisfied with bringing up a double A kid who is most likely going to to make more mistakes than Delgado in the pennant race, if there is one. If you don't believe that read last posts about Gomez and Milledge. So unless there is a sudden and drastic change in philosophy by the organizationa and the fan base this is not an option.
4. There is no solution on the bench. Anyone thinking there is is truly being delusional.
5. The only answer on the trade market is picking up a salary dump who probably looks just like Delgado.
6. So you are stuck. Nobody cared in the Spring. Why do you all care now? He may still very well have a hot month or two and give 20-25 HRs.
7. You all act like the hot hitters will stay hot and the cold hitters will stay cold. How long have any of you been around baseball. It rarely works that way. You guys act like Schneider is suddenly going to be an All Star bat and Church is going to hit 330 and Reyes is never going to get hot, etc and that just isn't the way baseball works.
pick-up Dan Johnson off waivers – At 28 much more upside then Delgado – Rays put him back on waivers after claiming him
The Delgado-Jacobs trade was NOT a bad trade for the Mets. Jacobs has been mediocre the last 2 years, and he's not going to keep up his current pace. His OPS against lefties: .517.. His OPS against righties: 1.163… Yeah so unless he's turned into Manny Ramirez or Jim Thome, he's going to freefall back to Earth soon…
I think Delgado has at least till Memorial Day. Then it all bets are off.
This idea that the Mets never will eat a contract is way off base. They did it with Foster in 86 they did with Torrez and Swan in 84. So while they have not done it recently it has been done.
If it comes to dumping him one option could be Toronto, if they pay most of his contract. Delgado has mentioned in the past that he would not mind finishing his career with the Jays as a DH when his current contract was up.
The Jays really have no DH with Thomas gone.
The die is cast, the mistake was made YEARS ago with Delgado.
You gotta hit him eighth and pray.
There's nothing else to be done. He should've retired in the winter of 06 and certainly last winter. There's nothing other than a few streaks left in that tank. He's too beat up and he'll never change his approach to get the best out of what is left, he's shown that.
Castillo is the person whose contract you HAVE HAVE HAVE to eat this winter. Delgado, at least, is gone soon.
oakland just picked up the big hurt. the mets can give them delgado since they seem to like washed up sluggers at the end of their career and then the mets can call up mike carp to play 1B
keith: if they trade joe smith i am leaving!
Brian Schneider has been sent to New York with an infected left thumb that may force him to the disabled list.
If Schneider avoids the DL, the Mets could cut Brady Clark, with the idea of going to with Gustavo Molina as a backup catcher until Moises Alou is activated. Molina is likely to be added either way. Raul Casanova could have some short-term value in NL-only leagues.
Castillo's contract now you are being delusional.
Mike C- He should've retired at the end of '06??? After a year in which he hit 38 HRs, drove in 114, had a monstrous postseason, and came one game away from the WS? What in god's name are you smoking?..
Someone mentioned Dan Johnson, and the Mets should definitely look into him….
doug: where did you hear that and i hope you are wrong
No one is going to pick up Delgado's contract. The Mets couldn't even get somebody to pick up Kaz Matsui's contract.
The ones you mentioned are pennies compared to the 17MM (20MM-3MM for month of April) Delgado is still owed.
No one is going to take Castillo's contract either.
I think some of you need to take a Get Real Pill.
The Mets do not dump big contracts. Period.
The Mets do not dump contracts that are more than a miilion or two. Period.
Josh,
That is a good assessment. And no one complained when he helped carry the team in '06 or when he was our best slugger in the playoffs. Omar went for a win now type move, and it almost paid off. No one should have been so short-sighted as to think that at some point Jacobs wouldn't be a better player. That doesn't make it a bad trade.
Brian Schneider has been sent to New York with an infected left thumb that may force him to the disabled list.
Though it may not cost him a DL trip, this injury to Schneider could bring the tenure of Brady Clark as a Met to an end. The Mets are going to need an emergency catcher, and Clark would be the guy to go. Sadly, we're going to have to deal with more Raul Casanova, who is just horrible. Look for Gustavo Molina to get called up.
Two freak injuries in a week for Brian Schneider. It's a shame, I love the way the guy calls the game, and though his offense has been weak in prior years, he's actually helping this team with his bat.
Listen. Delgado is going no where this year. Deal with it and hope he starts hitting. Why would you give up pitching for a low level first baseman like Ing. If I was Detroit and could get a pitcher like heilman or smith I would hand deliver the trade papers. The mets will find a first baseman next year. This year they will live with what they have. If the Mets don't make the playoffs it will not be because Delgado is not hittting.
Dan Johnson has been dumped by 2 teams in ONE season for a reason people. We're better off sticking with a guy who has hit 30 HRs repeatedly in the past and hoping it turns on for him. As for the Jacobs trade, my original comment on it definitely should have been filed away in the hindsigh department. I wasn't being serious, at that time you need to complete that trade. I'm just saying it's not so much of a slam dunk anymore.
scoop where are you getting Delagado's contract from.
Cotts contracts states that Delgado is being paid 16mm this year. The buyout is 4 million for next year. Also the Marlins are paying the Mets either 4 mil this year or next to cover the buyout. So the Mets owe Delgado 16 mil not 20
however you apply the money.
Scoop the contracts I mentioned were not pennies in 84 and 86.
Yes.
I remember they rioted at Shea when Jacobs was traded for Delgado. It was a widely panned move.
I'm just saying:
He had a painfully-streaky but overall productive '06, he had an embarrassing '07, has started off '08 profoundly ugly… has about ten thousand injuries under his belt and is a large person who is 35.
That is a trend and not a stage, it's what he's become, that's how he will stay, that's the ballgame.
Eating recent contracts—Mo Vaughn, Julio Franco, El Duque (functionally as Omar must have known he wouldn't get 2 years out of the guy), Art Howe, Bobby V. And those are just the ones that come to the top of my head. I'm sure there are others. Granted Delgado's is a bigger K to eat than most of those, but if he's not performing and you're replacing him with a minimum wage minor leaguer, the payroll isn't expanding and you may actually have better performance.
hey i mentioned No Vaugn first. and that was a HUGE contract!
Steve C.—yes you did!
Wasn't Vaughn paid thru insurance?
Julio Franco was pennies.
I thought the 4MM for Delgado was for last yr. Hence, 20MM for this yr w/the buyout.
Even if the Mets got the 4mm last year. The 4mm buyout counts on 2009 not on 2008. His 2008 contract is 16 mil for all tax purposes. It would take a miracle for the Mets to pick up his contract. A miracle I wish would happen.
Vaughn was paid by insurance and the Mets had him listed on the 40 man roster till his contract expired.
i think No vaugn played 3 games. thats some deal.
wish i could get a sweet deal like that.. only in baseball..
I will take heat for saying this. Everyone on the Mets has done something worth noting for the result of the Mets performance.
Reyes: Chicago's game of bad idea to throw home in stead of DP. He has also made some other bad fielding decisions as well. Streaking with the bat. Hot cold Hot cold.. Where is the aggressive base running?
Castillo: Think we been there with his contributing team issues. Maybe the Nats series was a turning point?
Delgado: The scapegoat for the Mets. Rightfully so, he is just terrible all around and we do not even need to review why he sucks so bad right now. However if you need refreshing- chime in. Karma is funny when Kearns kicked him in the ass two nights in a row.
Wright: While being one of the most productive players, other than the Phillies series he has been cold as ice. Wright has also made his share of bad throws from base.
Beltran: Came out of the gate offensively in Florida and then died down ever since other than the occasional hit or two. What happen to his base stealing? If Castillo can do it, Beltran should as well. The one thing that has been consistent is his glove.
Pagan: Off to a great start. Died down a bit with the bat. Really made some bad fielding choices this year (IE Chicago). Other than that he has met our expectations as a fill-in
Church: Other than his occasional situational hitting, it is hard to say what he did to contribute to the Met's problems. As long as he keeps it up, he will be on everyones good graces.
Schneider: The dude just can't stay healthy. I think he is a better hitter than other credit him for. His backstopping seem to improve but he was off to a rocky start with pass balls, dropping balls out of the mitt.
Chavez: He is just not doing much of anything. Willie have not giving him too much game time but even with what he had to work with, nothing stands out as being productive.
Anderson: Other than the blast from last night, Anderson has not done anything else other than strike out and maybe work a pitch count. I think he should fill in for Delgado and see what happens.
Clark: he hit a few but made a poor base running decision coming home one night. Other than that just a warm body who had a great ST.
Casanova: Impressive arm. Seems to throw accurately (base stealing, bunt throws to first).Nice Diving catch one night. I know nothing about his game calling. Made a poor base running decision last night. Not so hot with the bat (but he is a backup catcher).
Perez: Loses focus, Loses control- quick like instantly. Have a lead? Walk some batters. Maybe hit a few too. If he keeps it up he is going to have a hard time with FA after this year.
...hold up
..where was I.. ah yes trying point out responbility for the team.
Maine: Look good in his last outing. He gets down too hard no himself when he is in pressure situations. Anyone who know this can tell just by looking at him. Also like Perez he is still walking batters and well all think he can be having better control.
Pelf and Fig. 1: Both guys are doing more than what we can expect from guys at this amount of experience. Why both have their basic control issues, fielding mistakes but nothing really to be pointing fingers at because they make up for it in their pitching. I think they should eventually be moved into the bullpen when Pedro comes back and maybe if and when Claudio Vargas makes enoguh progress. These two should be middle inning type guys and replace Heilman and Sosa.
Sosa: We know what he has but jhe ust does not have it right now and since the beginning of the season. Gives up longs balls, short balls, free balls, you name it. Big liability. He gives up leads and cannot hold down the game. I could be more specific but why bother? He all know how bad he is so far this season.
Heilman: So far not the guy for the job. He may not be able to turn it around either. While he has had a few decent outings like the hardball strikeouts in Philly, like Sosa his relief control is just not there.
Show: I have not seen him in a while but that may be a good because I think the last time we saw him, he got rocked in Shea unless he "Showed" himself some time after that. Right now not as bad as Heilman and Sosa but also played less than them.
Feliciano: He held his ground last night and be been doing so for the most part. However, he has walked guys off the get-go and Willie pulls him. So not sure what to think but I will give him the benefit of the doubt that he still can be a effective L specialist.
Smith: Other than one or two not so good outings he has had a lot of control and been able to take care of his business of clean up duty when needed to.
Wagner: He has not blown a save yet. Matter of fact not even given up a hit in 8 innings. What else can you expect from a closer?
Johan: The man. Hits, fields and pitches. My only complaint is that he gives up the long ball. Had a few wild throws (which can be dismissed). However we knew this from the beginning. I just did not think it would show up so early in the season (Brewers game). Other than that i would like to see more innings pitched. Move him up in the batting order when he pitches.
Omar: His job mainly is too provide the manager with the players to get the job done. I think he has. Santana, Church, Schneider, Pagan, Wise (if he plays)..who cares if he made some bad trades. All GMs have done this too. At least he is not a loudmouth like Hank. Also those bad trades did not happen this year. We are talking about this year- not overall.
Willie: His job is on the line. How much patience will the big wigs have? I do not know. However ,we all know his style by now and it will not change. Personally, after "the collapse" his sense of urgency is not there. He moves the batting order and babys some of his guys but not much else is getting done. He does not argue calls (other than that left field "catch"). He has confidence in his players but he pulls his starters out by the 6th inning. What he says in the media may be different than what he does in the clubhouse. His job is to make sure that his players are motivated and winning ball games. Has he done this? Just over .500 of the time.
Things are so slow at work, I have had time to find to think about the "early season" and the Mets performance. They lack a cohesiveness. The blame goes beyond Delgado and the Bullpen. While these are big problems, I think they will stay the same until someone makes adjustments. The season is early and yes the fans are jumping at every opportunity to complain. I think we expect more from this team than what they have shown us so far this season.
I do not agree with qualifying wins. However the Mets need to start winning more games off their performance and not the misfortune of their opponents.