Mets Line-up: Delgado dropped
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- April
- 23
METS
SS Jose Reyes
2B Luis Castillo
3B David Wright
CF Carlos Beltran
RF Ryan Church
1B Carlos Delgado
LF Angel Pagan
C Brian Schneider
LH Johan Santana
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on Wednesday, April 23rd, 2008 at 4:39 pm by John Delcos.
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Interesting… With Church in the 5 hole, Beltran should definitely get better pitches to hit, but what will this do to Church, with Delgado behind him??
While Knowing nothing about Managing this the way I would play it:
SS Jose Reyes
LF Angel Pagan
CF Carlos Beltran
3B David Wright
RF Ryan Church
2B Luis Castillo
C Brian Schneider
1B Carlos Delgado
LH Johan Santana
Josh,
That is something to watch, but it cannot be that Church gets fewer ABs than Delgado any longer. Carlos is just finished.
Delgado not hitting? Learn to bunt.
Good but that's just a bandaid. Doesn't help him field any better. He either has to start hitting and getting on base, or they need to seriously platoon him or release him.
runnin rebel: apparently you know very little about baseball.
Castillo in the 6 hole thats brilliant.
Why not Santana ?
Thank god…Willie finally decided to break up the back to back out duo of Beltran and Delgado.
IMO, Delgado is totally washed up. Omar is an idiot for not having seen this writing on the wall last year. This team desperately needs another bat. Beltran hopefully will get it going soon.
delgado should bunt to third base while nobody is anywhere close to that side of the field
It's great to see the desperation 3 weeks in. At least you know Willie knows his ass is on the line.
RMK-
Delgado was brought in for 2006, and did all he could…He carried the offense on his back in the postseason. Beyond that, it seemed probable that he was in his decline phase, but I don't think anyone forsaw how quickly he would age. For one, I kinda thought that while he would decline, he'd still be an above average hitter going into his 40's, given the level of consistenvy that he showed throughout his career.
Castillo has more base running speed and I still think he can bunt (other than that one night in bangkok). Plus he does get the occasional hit every now and THEN. Also I think putting him there is maybe a less at bat and/or move players along into SP with ground outs and fly balls.
Lately I would trust Santana with a bat as well over the few others but it is just not really accepted these days to move him up in the order.
To Running Rebel: Amazing you mentioned "One Night in Bangkok." I was just talking about that song the other day.-JD
Well that night certainly made the whole Mets team humble.
John,
heres some names….
Dan Johnson just placed on waivers
Jason Phillips playing for Camden yes NJ independant league
Shelly Duncan, Josh Phelps & Craig Wilson stuck in the minors for NY/St. Louis/Pitt…
Hillenbrand, Klesko, Green all sitting at home semi-retired in their 30s
Willie just breezed through his weekly Q&A with Mike and Chris – even laughed a couple of times.
(they asked some pretty dumb questions)
Mettsgrrl94 "delgado should bunt to third base while nobody is anywhere close to that side of the field"..
In the late 50s when there was no NL team in NY, I was at a Yankee game against the Senators. Mickey Mantle was hot and came up with all four infielders on the left of the diamond, almsot begging him to bunt. Mantle hit one high into the upper deck in right field. Of course Delgado is no Mantle. But your point is well taken. But I think it will go unheeded.
Edfever: I think your point is backwards. Its not that the Mets should pick these guys sitting on the back porch. The point is Delgado should be joining them there.
i wont be happy until he's either batting 7th or out of the lineup all together. honestly, he was always in the lineup for his bat. he can barely get a walk. if it was any other ball player. for cryin out loud they got rid of Nady for less.
oh i find it amazing how everyone agrees with me now. last year i was a virtual pariah for saying the same thing i am saying this year and what everyone else is saying.
oh yeah but i knew it first and i was wrong and didnt know what i was talking about. turns out i was right. he was playing hurt and it affected the game. not to gloat, because actually i wish i had been wrong because the mets are suffering because of all this nonsense. Lets hope the season play out differently.
Lets Go Mets Go!
edfever: Josh Phelps is the best of the bunch but he can't play 1st base. Guess you did not watch him play for the Yanks last year. The Yanks are not trading Duncan and the rest either hit left handed or flat out suck.
The solutions are very incredible and some incredulous but'll bite on one in particular…. I've been around the game a long time JK so tell me what is a "serious platoon". You know Gil Hodges platooned at almost every position and they weren't serious platoons nor were they trivial platoons, they were platoons; so tell me what is a "serious platoon" and whom on this rotten bench is it that is good enough for a serious platoon?
They got rid of all the players that could play 1st. to give an excuse to keep delgado. tho i think marlon might be ok at 1st.
delgado has something on willie. knee pads or something..
Mets really need some innings out of Santana tonight. Just keep the pen off the field, even the guys that haven't stunk like Wagner, Sanchez, and Smith. He should be able to mow through the Nats lineup, which is one of the few that's been worse than ours.
Who were all these first basemen Steve C????
Hi mel (aka sloppy) ... a "serious" platoon is just a way to say they should go beyond a normal platoon and sit Delgado against every single lefty and many righties as well, especially the better righthanders and those he hasn't hit well in his career. IOW, minimize his impact on the lineup and in the field as well where his defense kills them, and basically try to hide him. Now don't take things too literally as you sometimes do. I am not suggesting they actually try to "hide him" with disguises and such.
Easley usually hits lefites well. Marlon usually hits righties well. And in a month or two Carp may be ready to also get some playing time at first base.
Believe it or not sean green played 1st base very well,it was his original position, when delgado injured himself. and gee wasnt nady playing 1st?
gotay also played 1st in a pinch. and marlon anderson also played first i believe..
infielders can be trained.
Has a day gone by in your ignorant pathetic, slimy, worthless mesningless life(not life, I mean existence, when you weren't an a-hole???? Don't respond…Everybody knows….. thanks for the retarded answer JK… I knew you could out do your stupid self by outdoing your retarded brain failure about centerfield being so hard.
You know what's harder than being a center fielder…being as big a jerk as you…... Do take me literally….
Steve C:
I get your drift but Gotay never played first base in the majors. To say he could ber trained is a far cry from saying he was first baseman traded away.
Sean Green did play decent first base but he had degenerated into a singles hitter and must have had little value since nobody offered him a contract. He was traded away. He was a free agent.
Nady.. When he was traded in late '06, I don't think even you had a problem with Delgado yet.
Marlon is still on the team (or back on the team whichever way you want to think of him, and he wasn't traded either. Left as FA for a multi year deal…..
Now after that awesome dribbler for an RBI I bet your opinion of Delgado has changed immensely, NOT…...
Scoopcoop Did you see this. I defended the Mets FO….
mel (aka sloppy) ... you're so predictable. Juvenile insults and name calling. You must be a treat to live with. I bet you live alone. I feel sorry for you.
I think my line up would have done well tonight.
My buddy who is a Tigers fan says they're looking to deal Inge now that Granderson is back.
I proposed we send them Heilman for Inge in the preseason and was mocked. Any takers now? He may not be a starter for us, but he would see significant playing time, spelling Alou and Delgado. Plus he can literally play every position. And this isn't like Fernando Tatis, Damion Easley, or Marlon Anderson, who just own the proper glove for the position and then go stand there during games… Inge is a VERY good defender and a super athlete.
Keith … I was the one who "mocked" you for your Inge-Heilman trade. I still don't see what you see in Inge. Do you know he's never played a single game at first base in the majors? Heck, Marlon and Easley have way more time at first base than Inge. I would bet that right now both are more adept there than Inge would be. And who would you leave off the roster to make room for an extra position player? Inge's bat also isn't very good. His career OPS is just .700. I have more faith in Easley's old bat. At least against lefties.
Plus, I think Heilman will eventually turn it around. They should trade him after the season. But not now.
"runnin rebel: apparently you know very little about baseball. Castillo in the 6 hole thats brilliant.
Why not Santana ?"
Well I may know little about baseball but after tonight's at bats with teams like the sorry Nationals, Santana may have done more damage if he was in the 6 slot.
"Lately I would trust Santana with a bat as well over the few others but it is just not really accepted these days to move him up in the order."
Copy That. Santana with two doubles tonight. Is it luck? Or is it possible Santana has a better bat than Delgado and Castillo lately? Don't take my word for it but check out his stats on MLB website. Sure he has less at bats but he is packing more with those AB than the other two.
Nevermind…It's "too early" in the season to tell. However it is never too early to tell that Church, Schneider were great trades or that Santana still holds the the "best pitcher in the Universe."
Hello from DC (aka JK):
How was the game last night JK? Did you enjoy your fantasy vacation to Washington? I didn't realize somebody could know wo little not about one team but about 2.
JK, I would drop Endy. With Alou coming back, having both Endy and Pagan is superfluous. Plus, Inge can play CF.
I would take you on that bet, if there any way of settling it. Inge is an unbelievable athlete and excels anywhere he plays on the diamond.
What I see in Inge is a guy who plays above average D all over the diamond and has a decent stick. That is very valuable. His OPS against lefties is .799. Not great, but solid. Plus, for those who value it more than I do, he is one of those "gamer" types.
Rebel, Johan should hit above 9 when he pitches… definitely. You're dead on there.
Why do I still hear about Gotay? The kid had one good season. Sure, that maybe screams potential but he had ankle injury. Apparently, he was not so good on the defense as well. What's the deal?
I think fielding is almost if not just as important as batting. Bad fielding can give up any runs that was accomplished during an AB.
mel (aka sloppy & various others): Your saying I am the DC moron is laughable. I only post here under one name.
Keith: From a practical perspective, you know they are not going to drop Endy just for someone like Inge. Endy is a favorite of both Omar and Willie. You might release Endy for someone who is more proven and productive, but Inge is a fringe player. I just don't see any benefit for the current Mets team to having someone like Inge who has never played first base. And he's been a starter for most of his career, so I can see him complaining if he has to sit on the bench for any period of time.
I realize Heilman's shakiness has been a problem. But he's always been a 2nd half pitcher so it might be better to keep him for the rest of the year. Maybe giving Duaner the 8th inning more often instead of Heilman will solve the issue temporarily.
And Keith, Inge makes $6 million. They are cautious about the current payroll, so I don't see them adding to it for someone like Inge.
JK, you make very valid points, but let me give this one more shot.
There are not many ways Minaya could improve this team. Realistically, the lineup is totally set. Alou, Delgado, and Castillo are not going anywhere. The only way to improve this team is to improve the bench. This way, when Alou and Delgado need to take a seat, the team will be inserting a better player into the starting lineup.
While you may not think highly of Inge, I think he is an improvement over both Easley and Anderson. And if for some reason we needed to have a bench player get any kind of extended playing time, I would rather see Inge in there than the other two.
Inge would really solidify the team, and here's why. He can play everywhere, literally. The last few years he has been the Tigers starting 3B (the year they made the series he was their starting 3B) and played a great CF filling in for Granderson to start the year. He played a little short in spring training while the Tigers were showcasing him and Leyland has stated that he plays a very good SS. And after the way Easley played SS, I would welcome the upgrade. He's also played some LF in his career and with his arm, I am sure he could play RF. Additionally, he came up as a catcher, and played there in the spring as well, so he would allow for greater flexibility with Schneider and (eventually) Castro, since you would essentially have a 3rd catcher on the roster. Lastly, he pitched in college (not that I would ever advocate using him as a pitcher, that would be ridiculous… just want to show what kind of athlete this guy is.) So yeah, I think he could handle 1B. I mean, if Tatis, Easley, and Marlon can all handle it, I think a guy who plays solid to spectacular defense all over the diamond can handle it.
As for playing time, I envision him getting 3-4 starts per week. You could just slide him around the diamond. However, I mostly see him playing a lot of LF and 1B, giving Alou and Delgado days off to help keep them healthy and effective. If I were Willie, I would also use him in CF to give Beltran a day every other week or so… the guy is coming off two knee surgeries. Then, you could have him spell Wright, Reyes, and catcher maybe once a month. Lastly, even though Church is hitting lefties right now, and even though I do think he will essentially be ok against lefties, it wouldn't hurt to have another RH bat off the bench to give Church a rest against a tough LH.
Then, the bench would set up like this: Pagan would be the 4th OF. Easley and Anderson would be the main RH/LH pinch hitters (and backup 2B). Castro/Cassanova would be the backup catcher and Inge would be your main backup who would come into the game during double switches and get a few starts per week to give the starters a rest and the first guy to be inserted into the starting lineup if a starter went on the DL.
Inge may be a fringe or barely league average starter, but as a super-sub in the NL he would have a lot of value. Especially for a team with some older players and guys coming off surgey who would benefit from more consistent time off.
So that's my case for Inge. In short, I feel like he would be a significant upgrade to the bench, giving us a truly versatile player who plays great defense at multiple positions and a RH bat.
Rebel, while I disagree with your opinion of Gotay and wished the Mets would have kept him around, I agree that it is time to move on. He's a Brave now.
When Alou comes back, it think it would be a bad idea to drop Endy and not Clark. While Clark had a pretty good ST and Endy stinks right now, I have a better feeling about keeping him around(Still thinking about that snowconer in 06').
On the other hand Clark is older than Endy, so it would be more efficient to milk the older cow if you know what I mean. (This is also with completely disregard for the Righty lefty fielding and batting situation).
Agreed. Clark would be the one to go. I would only drop Endy if we added someone like Inge.
Other than first base I do not see the need for adding Inge. After last year I am more willing to give Alou the benefit of the doubt than "the man with the boxed foot".
Plus while the hernia may be a big time surgery it wasn't baseball related (so they say). I really think when he comes back he will stick around for a while.
Keith: Do you have a poster of Inge hanging on your wall? LOL. It seems you really really like him as a player. A super sub is nice, but maybe Inge in that role is very unhappy. At any rate it is not a realistic thought for this year for the Mets as Endy is not going anywhere, especially for a limited player like Inge. There is just no room on the roster for him.
JK, how can you call Inge a limited player? He is extremely versatile. Easley, Marlon, and Endy are limited players. Inge might not be great, but he's pretty good at a lot of things. Plus, he has more power than any of our bench guys… except maybe Easley, but I'll go with the young guy.
I'll tell you, no one on this site values solid ballplayers. Church has to be Ted Williams. Since Gotay wasn't Utley he was expendable. I mean, come on, not everyone is an all star, or needs to be an all star, to provide value to a team.
And no, I do not have a poster of Inge on my wall. I just thought I would give a well thought out and thorough explanation of why I would trade Heilman for Inge. Sorry, it won't happen again. From now on I'll make sure my posts are short, choppy, and staccato like, filled with tangents that have little to do with my point.
Keith: Inge is limited because he's never played first base or any other infield position except 3rd in the majors. You say he's athletic but there's more to playing a position than athleticism. Further, Easley hits lefties better and Marlon hits righties better. I'd rather have one of them up at the plate in a key situation.
I just don't see Inge as a good fit for this club as presently constituted.
And of course some of us value solid ballplayers. Both Church and Schneider are solid and are a good fit for the Mets right now. The issue is Inge fitting in. I don't see a fit with the Mets. Both in terms of salary structure and need.
As for the poster comment, can't you take a little joke? I didn't call you any names or insult your intelligence which happens frequently around here.
And the poster comment had nothing to do with the length of your posts but rather with the devotion you seem to have for Inge. Maybe he's one of those players you have to watch everyday to appreciate. I just don't see anything about him that would make him attractive for the Mets this year. Maybe next year if they don't have Endy and Castro, someone like Inge makes sense.
I hate when people talk salary. People think they know this subject and have no idea. I mean really. Nobody is fooling nobody here with this funny money business.
Plus who cares? It's their money.
rebel, it has to do with the Luxury Tax. The Mets are right up against the limit right now. It's no secret either. No one is trying to fool anyone here. The Mets have made it clear that their goal every year is not to exceed the LT. Which is the goal of every ML team except the Yankees.
Yes I know about LT. Yes, I know that it also takes crafty sports agents behind closed doors to talk abouth salary negotiations as well.
So I bet we all foreseen the Johan salary amount and length too right? (Talking about before the trade)
During 2007, the Mets were comfortably under the LT limit. And with the salaries of Green, Glavine, and Valentin coming off the books, there was never an issue of whether the Mets could fit one big contract such as Johan in for 2008 without going over the limit.
You don't think the Mets make all these calculations to stay under the limit every year?
One can speculate about players without regard to salary. But the fact is, the Wilpons attempt to adhere to the LT guidelines every year. This year right out of the gate they are very close to that limit. I don't think that means they won't add significantly to the payroll or go over the limit this year. But it will have to be for the right player. I don't see them doing that for a player like Inge.
I don't care what they say about you Keith. I love you and CLM and Delcos and metsfan even. Write as much as you want. I was very excited catching up on all the brilliant commentary from you little metsies that I am so many of you. I thought I was W but I find out that I am Bob, and Keith, and Delcos, and JK. Well I am… I am all of the little Metsies who wish they can bring back the days of watching baseball and having a good time…. Because somewhere along the line you little Metsies lost that. Baseball is a war zone for you little Metsies now. You boo your team and call them names and fight with each other incessantly….. What happened to the good old days of having fun with the Metsies….??? Remember Meet the Mets, Meet the Mets, Bring your kiddies bring your wife???Long gone… The last place you want a kid or a lovely wife is around Met fans.
Anyway here is my up close scouting report on your big metsies. They suck on offense and they suck on defense and they will finish behind everyone but us because we totaly suck….. And as for Santa Anna, you got ripped off….. Delcos was right. he ain't the best on the planet. Good one Delcos….. Like the new dump?
Love and kisses
W, Keith, Bob, JK, and of course Delcos!
PS: There was a lot to read while my boss was sleeping so if I missed any of myselves please tell me so I can add me to the closing…...
JK, As I stated, Inge played SS in spring training and Leyland was impressed with how well he played the position. He never played it in the bigs because the Tigers have had Guillen.
And let's not make 1B out to be CF or C. Miguel Cabrera moved over to first this week. Pujols did it. Bench did it. Plenty of players have done it. Piazza couldn't do it because he's not a good athlete. If Ryan Howard can "play" 1B, I'm sure Inge could.
Yeah, but you're going by Easley and Anderson's career stats. They're not exactly spring chickens. Plus, I still maintain I would rather have Inge playing in the event one of our bench guys needs to see extended time in the field than Easley or Anderson.
Keith—OK, point well taken about playing first base. Delgado has been so bad with the glove this year that I think Piazza of a few years back was just as good. So it won't take much to replace Delgado's defense.
But as for the bat, I have to disagree. Over the last 3 years, Marlon hit .290 with an .825 OPS vs. righthanders and Easley hit .309 with a .936 OPS vs. lefthanders. Over the same time period, Inge hit .282 with an .828 OPS vs. lefthanders and .242 with a .712 OPS vs. righthanders. So Marlon-Easley have him beat.
But there's another issue. You wouldn't trade for Inge unless you intended to eventually make him a full-time player. Because he makes $6 million this year. And you don't pay bench players $6 million. So if you give him the first base job in 2009, that's giving up a lot of production for that position for a guy who will be 31 next year. Why can't we at least audition Carp, Evans and Murphy for first for next year? Call them up in September—and sooner if there is a need. Let them duke it out in spring training. Then give the winner the job and send the other two to AAA. If the winner looks lost and it's late May, then call up one of the two others from AAA. Or scour the trade market then. But don't take on Inge who will only block first base for a potentially better hitting first baseman from our farm system.
JK one note on the luxury tax. The Mets will be able to deduct any luxury tax money they owe next year if they apply that money to payments for the new ball park. In essence no luxury tax, this will also apply to the Yankees next year.
JK, you bring up a fair point. A Carp/Evans platoon at 1B might not be a terrible idea. And who knows, Carp could still become a full time guy.
I apologize if I insinuated that I thought Inge could be a regular 1B. His bat is certainly subpar for the position. What's odd is for a guy who so desperately wants to start, the position where he would definitely land a starting gig, catcher, he wants no part of on a regular basis. From what my friend tells me, he has no issues catching every so often, but he doesn't want to do it full time.