Mets Chat Room: Sputtering out of the gate; lose series to Brewers.
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- April
- 13
Thanks to Kevin Devaney for filling in today. Probably the best time to take off is whenever Oliver Perez starts. I’m thinking Scott Boras doesn’t include today in his Perez Bio for the free-agent market this winter.
The ballclub is 5-6, not quite the start they wanted. The bullpen has been spotty, but the lack of power early is surprising. Last in the NL in homers. Defense hasn’t been crisp, either.
What do you like, what don’t you like, so far?
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on Sunday, April 13th, 2008 at 12:47 pm by John Delcos.
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kapler does it again
Good to see Ollie’s head is in it early.
Willie bitches when OP doesn’t give up any runs, and now Willie should be happy….
Rollercoaster ride—getting Good Ollie one inning followed by Bad Ollie in the next!
BTW: Tom Glavine left his start today at Washington early with a strained hamstring.-JD
It’s an epidemic.
Oh, metsies, turned on your game just in time to see MOTA do you in. Good job of clutch hitting by the metsies. The announcer said 5 innings in a row with a DP. WOW! It takes a lot of really crappy players to do that.
Good job by the Brew Crew!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
But at least the metsies fans weren’t booing at the end. That’s because they were all gone!!!!!!!!!
BY the way metsies, DWRIGHT is the worst fielding iron glove winner in history. Has he ever made a good throw????
tommyd: you must be one of those “despicable” metsie fans….
shame on you. little kids read that and ask their Mommys what it means and get their mouths washed out with soap.
Despicable!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It’s curious why Peterson and Willie decide to keep Ollie in so long when he did not have it. When, as it has been termed, “Bad Ollie” is out there, he can give up any lead with the best of them. Why wait until he gives all four back to bring in relief? Also, what is Peterson really getting paid for other than modeling his warm up jacket and looking for on camera time. He seems to be becoming more and more of a ghost in terms of influencing his pitchers. That is the absolute last thing that the Mets need right now.
stillsane: did willie do bad today?
How was the afternoon off with Carol Alt?
You cannot defend against five double plays in fairness to Willie. What I do not like is that Ollie obviously looked rattled at points. Delgado went out to talk to him. Would not have hurt to send the pitcher “Miracle Worker” out to try and get him centered again. Could not have hurt. For that, I think Willie could have been a little more responsive.
Any afternoon with Carol Alt would be an enjoyable one. = )
I bet he had more fun than all you metsies had watching another horrible game by the worst team money could buy part II.
tommyd: you are worse than most little metsies. coming to DC next week, “despicable” little metsie. Come on down We’ll take good care of you…. promise… We’ll put you up in the really bad part of town so you feel right at home.
stillsane: some teams who have so many slow pokes on base try something revolutionary.. Its called the hit and run. have the metsies ever tried it?
lets see looking at the wrap, the metsies got 4 base runners in the 8th inning and scored zero runs. very good job.
C’mon TommyD: Clean it up. You’re just proving the rap most people have on NY fans. You can do better, can’t you?-JD
Tiffany: Can you believe it? She stood me up. Amazing.-JD
tommyd: I can talk smack because you little metsies think you are so great abut you are a crappy team with crappy “despicable” fans that are the laughingstock of all baseball, and you little metsies deserve it…...
the worst gm in the world
the worst fans in the world
the # 3 team in their own city
THE NYMETSIES!!!!!!!!!!
THE WORST TEAM MONEY CAN BUY PART II
MOTA sucks and still SHUTS DOWN THE METSIES and gives it to the fans on their own field!!!!!
DC – Let’s look at the standings after 162 games and compare teams. I am assuming that the Nationals do not have a decent blog, or, you would be on there celebrating today’s win with your constituents? It is easy to find fault after each single game with something. After looking at the results of the Nationals’ last time games, you may want to be concentrating on things closer to home.
That should say ten games….my bad.
JD…you’re around this team.
What is wrong with them? What has happened?
Hi DC … In their fourth year of existence (let’s leave Montreal out of this) the Washington Nationals are 229-270. Just thought you should know.-JD
Philly, Atlanta and Florida all lost today
So in the end, as lousy as this loss was, its not that big of a deal.
The booing at Shea is getting ridiculous at this point. Its embarrassing.
Hi Millie …
Willie Randolph said there’s no correlation between this year and last season. Not true. They are playing the same way they did down the stretch.
Right now, the culprits have been the bullpen and a fizzling offense. This is a team that’s sleepwalking into the season. Yes, it is early, but right now there’s no spark.
And, blaming injuries is the easy way out. They haven’t played consistently well since last August.
Do you remember them getting swept in Philly last year in late August? After that series their lead was cut from six to two games. However, they built it back to seven games and 21 games over .500 by Sept. 12.
Philly came into Shea and swept a three-game series and they haven’t been right since.
Every aspect of their game has been to blame to varying degrees. They say last year is over, but they are still playing as they did down the stretch. There’s no energy.-JD
JD was there any talk of Duaner being activated for Tuesday’s game?
He looked solid in his back to back days and I’d like to think with him and Jose back, this team would be setting up for at least two out of three from the Nats heading to Philly.
I really have never understood this “no energy” view. If they get hits, they have energy, if they don’t get hits, there a listless team. If they win, they’re fired up, if they lose, they’re not. IT’s that simple. It’s about wins and losses, its not about being “fired up.” What, is David Wright going up to bat thinking to himself…well, whatever, just another AB. Do you really think that? I mean, what exactly is behind this no energy argument besides them losing games? If pitchers make outs and hitters get hits, all of this goes away, but that comes with execution, which is a bit easier said then done. It’s hard to go up there, and be like, wow, i’m so pumped up, i’m so going to get a hit right now, and then have it happen. Doesn’t work like that, this isn’t basketball, this isn’t football.
JD-
I have been and still am a Randolph fan (a little too early to totally freak out, obviously) but still. I know you can’t/won’t give an opinion on this, but I’m beginning to wonder if he just doesn’t have control of this team.
Baseball isn’t like football, where players thrive by feeding off emotion. I actually like the largely even-keeled approach by Willie…but I really think it has permeated into a NEGATIVE for these particular players.
I think they have the talent to overcome this over the course of the long season, but when the going gets tough, they fold like a house of cards. I really think the lack of a “aggression” from their manager is more to blame than I ever thought it would be.
JD,
Jorge Sosa does not belong in any bullpen in an ideal world. The number 1 and 2 things you ask a reliever NOT to do are give up walks and homeruns, and Sosa allows a lot of both. I am NOT suggesting that he should be in the starting rotation, or that the Mets have any better options, but he is going to lose a lot of ball games this year for the Mets in a short relief role.
Is it just me or is the Energy from Endy Chavez gone? I just don’t feel that magic anymore when he’s at the plate..
About this team.. It’s not fun to watch. They either don’t hit or don’t pitch, and they never play defense.
The blame has to fall on everybody including David Wright.. David seems to be in the “I’ll strike out with runners in scoring position but then hit a solo homerun” funk.
Here’s the thing with the Mets. If they need 1 they get NONE. If they need 2 they get 1.. If they need 3 they get 2.
They just don’t have enough clutch hitters. Carlos Beltran great hitter, but always seems to fail in the clutch, Carlos Delgado, when was the last time he had a clutch hit? Against Armando?
The truth is that without Angel Pagan this time is probably looking at TWO wins instead of 5.He’s the only one bringing the energy and excitement.
O, one more thing.. I think we can put to rest the SNY radar guns making it seem like Johan was throwing slower then he actually was.. Mota and Gagne both hit 94 today, enough said.
Metsfan-Very, very true…but ask yourself this.
This team was on place last year for about 92-93 wins before tanking at the end. That is ONLY a five-win dropoff from the ‘06 squad.
Even if you take away the last 2 weeks of ‘07, there was NO COMPARISON between the energy level of the team last year compared to ‘06.
It’s not that they don’t care. Of course they do. The issue is the killer instinct. Once the opposing team is down…they let up.
The ‘06 squad just continued to pile on and never let up.
Something just isn’t right anymore. And what’s even more frustrating is that they are largely the same squad as two years ago!
And bottom line, when the offense puts up 7 runs, regardless of whether they went to sleep after the 3rd inning, your pitching staff has gotta win the game.
Roger,
The Mets may not be playing very well, and it may just be that they aren’t a very good team, but can we please pretend to be rational and not suggest that Angel Pagan – and any “energy” Mr. Pagan might exude – as well as he has played is not the difference b/w 2 wins and the 5 they actually have.
Seriously, how many god damn yen are they paying Bobby Valentine? He’s become something of a demigod in Japan, but I think Wilpon has more than enough money to match it, and if the Mets would just build a small, but very tasteful, gold monument in deference to his managerial genius – and perhaps enlarge the CitiField dugout to accomodate his egomania – I really think we could have him back. And we NEED him back.
Will Mets fans ever get over Bobby V?
He’s gone and he’s not coming back.
Get over it.
JD: We suck down here. We know it. We are in post Minaya revovery mode. We know it. We have a bad record We know it. But we don’t pay a 150 million to suck. And we don’t boo every play that isn’t perfect from the first day of the season.
Plus, you’re the only blog guy in baseball who eggs on his own fans!!!!!! Can’t wait for you to get promoted to a major league team!!!!! Is it any fun being a Met writer and listening to those happy fans every day?
Why do the metsies play better on the road… Because they can’t wait to get the heck away from their “despicable” fans.
I really don’t understand why fans think that if Willie, goes, that the Mets suddenly become good. IT DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY. This team will continue to be mediocre until our pitching develops at least a little consistency, and until the offense starts getting some clutch hits. Willie can’t control either of those things, and he also isn’t an electrician, he can’t control the lack of “energy” the team has. The Tigers are 2-10, and Leyland is a hothead, does he have too much “energy”??
Bobby V. wouldn’t change the fact that Ollie is incredibly inconsistent. Bobby V wouldn’t change the fact that we grounded into 5 double plays. Bobby V can’t change the fact that Luis Castillo has no power and is on a severe decline.
Look, I’m not a Willie fan, but he gets way too much credit for how badly the team performs. Maybe he should get fired, that way, to show the fans that perhaps Willie isn’t the source of all this sucking, and that it maybe originates from the players (which comes directly back to Omar)....
The manager doesn’t make much of a difference in baseball.
I also don’t think there’s a manager in baseball who’s great at the tactical stuff. People just don’t see enough of other teams to see it.
So, all this yelling and screaming to fire people is pointless to me. Willie isn’t the greatest in-game manager, but I don’t think there are many in baseball.
Does changing the manager matter? It does sometimes.
Remember when the Marlins had that great ex-Met manager Torborg and they were smart enough to fire him with a losing record and then looky looky they won the World Series that very same year, because they played a better brand of baseball under Jack McKeon. In 80 the Phils made a change in mid season and turned things around and won.
If this is team as talented as so many think the it appears the manager has created an environment where they are pressing all the time and making too many bad plays at the plate and on the field. If that is the case a change could help. If the case is as a few believe, such as myself that this team doesn’t have the talent then a change wouldn’t matter. Remember this is the same basic team that finished the last 100 games at 500 and is just doing the same thing.
“I also don’t think there’s a manager in baseball who’s great at the tactical stuff. People just don’t see enough of other teams to see it.”
Not 1….. In all of baseball…. Wow…. Do you see enough of all of them to know this?
YOu know what, that’s probably the first thing hello from DC has said that I agree with. It hurts, but he’s right, except for the Mets sucking part. We’re not playing well, but its not like we have a horrible team.
This game started out so promising. Even making outs that moved runners over. Then OP crashed and burned and the DPs were killers. Then some base running blunders and some poor defense. DW can’t get a hit w/runners on base and he is taking his at bats on to the field.
I heard a little of Willie on the radio. He was not happy. Did anyone see his remarks on TV? I hope he kicks some butt.
I was willing to give the benefit of the doubt b/c it is early, but after today Willie needs to put some more urgency into the players.
DW comments “I think everybody in the clubhouse is pretty upset,†Wright said. “When you jump out to that kind of lead and let them slowly get back into the ballgame and they continue to add on when we couldn’t, it’s frustrating. Willie is angry. The clubhouse is angry. We know to compete in this division we’re going to have to play better baseball.â€
If they truely are angry, we should know on Tuesday. The Nats just broke a long losing streak. They ought to be primed for a loss as they exhale after winning today.
A big problem with this team is Willie’s deference to the veterans. There is no accountability. If Castillo and Delgado suck it up, they know they’ll be penciled into the 2nd and 5th spots in the lineup, playing 2B and 1B, respectively.
When Reyes comes back he should keep Pagan hitting 2nd and drop Castillo to 8th. He should also think about flip flopping Delgado and Church. Even if it’s only for a few games it shows these guys they need to perform to keep their positions in the starting lineup.
I agree with that Keith, Pagan should definitely hold onto his spot near the top, let him hit 2nd while he’s going good. Castillo can basically do the same thing you want him to do in the 2 spot as he’ll do in the 8 spot. Get on base, take pitches, move a runner over, that sort of thing. Delgado hasn’t been bad yet, except looking bad against some lefties, but I think he should be given a little more time before he gets demoted.
Willie’s even keel is a nice idea in an ideal universe but the Mets play in the actual universe and in the actual universe human beings have emotions and they need to express them. They have expectations of themselves and they experience frustration when they don’t meet those expectations. They can pretend not to feel it and they can suppress the expression of those emotions but that just makes them stronger and they start to interfere with the ability to concentrate and focus. It’s not a good attitude to have because it flies in the face of human nature and reality.
Serenity now!
Surprisingly Pagan and delgado Are doing better than i expected..
Very disappointed in D-wright’s fielding work..
Taylor: Very good commentary about suppressing emotions. I think Willie also doesn’t have a clue when to praise and how to praise and how and when to criticize his players. Did anybody really expect anything other than a bad performance by Perez yesterday. When you get criticized for giving up no runs, its not easy getting up for your next performance when you know you can’t please your boss. So what does Willie say now? And to ignore the collapse was about as bad a thought process as could have been thought up. Its the same guys for the most part who failed on a massive basis. Everyone other than Willie and Minaya knew it would come up every time they lost a game they should have won.
The other issue is the booing. I wonder how a guy can play his best hearing not a few boos, but what has to be almost everybody at the park letting them have it almost all the time. I did notice the booing stopped when they didin’t score off of Mota. Mota gave it to the fans after what should have been a multi run inning, and those fans there deserved it. But how did the Mets react. They laid down andbdied in the 9th against Gagne a pitcher who ssemingly can get nobody out other than the Mets.
Can’t call this a bad loss anymore. I now call it a 2007 loss. Until the Met front office addresses last year and figures out a way to help these guys get it out of their system that is what it is—- a 2007 loss.
It was a total give away game and that’s what we did last year, gave away tons of games. We know how much each game is worth because of last year, we need to get it turned around.
It comes down to lack of clutch hits. Mets are batting .180 in close and late and are near the bottom w/runners in scoring position and 2 out. They were in the bottom half in 07 but in the top half in 06 (but not near the top) in BA.
They were last in runs scored close and late in 07. In the middle in 06. They are last in runs scored close and late so far this yr.
Mets are third in OBP, 4th in walks. Plenty of guys on base to drive in. Wright, Beltran and Delgado have to change things around to be at least in the middle on these stats like 06.
Anyone who says it’s too early to panic doesn’t understand what is happening. Like Sloppy said, this was a 2007 loss. It was not game #11, but game #173. For better or worse, Willie and/or Omar will not survive the season if this continues.
“Delgado hasn’t been bad yet, except looking bad against some lefties, but I think he should be given a little more time before he gets demoted.”
Metsfan: You’re right. Delgado shouldn’t be demoted as of now. I guess I was thinking more about last year and how Wright would hit lower than Delgado in the lineup.
Scoop: You’re right about OBP, but one of the reasons why we have such a high OBP is because of Beltran, Wright, and Delgado. These are the guys getting on base. But I do agree, those three do need to pick it up as far as driving in runs.
I personally won’t be happy unless the Mets win the remaining 151 games of the schedule. :-) But seriously, if you don’t want the fans to boo, play the game well. Don’t hit into 5 double plays, protect a 4 run lead that’s given to you, don’t make boneheaded baserunning plays, etc etc etc….
On a positive note, Friday nights game was heartwarming. Listening to the interview with Figueroa’s dad and him saying watching Nelson in a Met uniform was “like dying and going to heaven,” made me think that I would feel the same way if one of my kids grew up to play for the Mets. :-)
The Mets are 59-62 since June 1, 2007. I keep saying to myself “this team can not be that bad. They are at least a 90 win team”. Am I wrong? Usually this franchise is like Egypt in the time of Joseph: seven good years followed by seven lean years. Are we only going to get three good (winning record) years?
Sloppy: A “2007 loss?” Well put. The whole season seems like a big continuation. It’s not going to change either until this teams runs off 7 wins, or 10 out of 11. Luckily for them the rest of the division is just as lousy.
Dan G. The Egpyt cycle. I hope you are wrong this time. Remember Omar said they would be like Braves-good every yr. But his poor player dev. and player drafting is gonna make that hard. But on the positive side, 43MM comes off the books after this yr (Pedro, Eldue, Alou, Delgado). If none return, there should be plenty for Texiera and OP.
But he is not gonna get tossed. Willie will be the one who gets tossed. Omar is to smooth and too buddy buddy w/Jeff and Fred. I would not be surprised that in his mind, he kept Willie in case the team did not perform so he could be the scapegoat.
Perez is not coming back. He’ll be booed out of town, as he has been made a target for whatever reason.
Texeira is coming to New York but he’s coming to the Bronx. The question is, if they don’t overpay a guy, why would anyone choose to play for the Shea/Citi Field so called fans?
I suspect you are right about Minaya, but if there is no trophy to put in the case, Omar will be gone also, just not as fast as Willie.
I believe Willie lost the team last year and doesn’t know how to get it back. How can a team be pressing in April (at least a baseball team) is beyond me. Its one thing to lose and play crisply, that will always happen but to play every day with one sloppy play after another is pathetic.
Players go where the $$ is. In OP’s case, he will get a big offer from the Mets if he has a good yr. If he has a good yr, the fans won’t boo much or often. If he has a bad yr, I would not be inclined to sign him anyway.
The Mets will have plenty of $$ to sign Tex. So will the Yanks and a few others. But if Mets have a so-so yr as 11 games suggest (if 11 games can suggest that), I would expect the chances would rise he becomes a Met.
If the Mets are WS winners, or even make it, we will have to reserve some judgement until after these events happen to know what the Mets FO will do (since past successes have led to sitting on hands-2000).
But bottom line is they will have plenty of $$ and getting (or keeping in this case) that 3rd good SP and that third thumper bat will be key to Omar’s chances of surviving since those commodities are unlikely to come from within due to his poor player dev and drafting.
Teixeira is not going to be a Met unless the Mets outbid the O’s, the Braves, the Yanks, and any other team that decides to make a run at him. Not gonna happen.
Texeira won’t be a Met because Omar never gets a guy the Yanks or Red Sox want and the Yanks want a new first baseman, and talk about money coming off the books. Giambi, Pettitte, Bobby Abreu, Mussina, Pavano, Farnsworth…probably twice or more what the Mets have coming off the books. Plus Yankee fans save their boos for A-Rod not every freakin guy on the field.
And OP won’t be a Met because he did the terrible deed, he went to arbitration and won!!!!
Yes Yanks have alot coming off books but so do Mets. Texiera is gonna hit the jackpot w/one of them.
The team that gets him might be the one that has the worse 08 season.
I agree scoopcoop that Mr Texeira will hit the jackpot but I don’t agree with your logic about where he goes. If the Yanks want him they will bid way over anything the Mets will. I wish we we were his agent!
I guess time will tell sloppy. Yanks will have alot of holes to fill (SP, 1b, RF, LF?, BP). How high will they go w/their payroll TBD.
Re: Teixeira…it has been long rumored that he wants to play for the Orioles. Not that it matters but if they are competitive dollarwise, they’ll be the team IMO that gets him. I don’t know the guy personally but I get the feeling that he is a NY kinda guy.
Tex’s agent is Boras. Unless he goes outside of norm, he will go to higgest bidder.
If I was him, I’d have to think long and hard about the O’s. As long as Angelos is the owner, the will stink.
But that rarely seems to concern today’s player. Go to the highest bidder, even if it is an awful org.