Thinking too much … the pitcher batting eighth
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- April
- 11
This is just thinking too much. Tony La Russa does it because he wants to have three hitters in front of Albert Pujols for greater RBI possibilities. In theory it might make sense, but really?
Why does a hitter in the NL bat eighth normally?
Answer: Because he’s usually a lousy hitter. Chances are he won’t get on base all that much for it to make a difference. The eight-nine hitters are most likely the team’s two weakest hitters, do does it really matter if the pitcher is eighth or ninth? Probably not.
If a manager wants to bat a hitter in the line-up where he’ll have potentially three batters (and three possible RBI opportunities) ahead of him, what’s wrong with clean-up?
And, batting fourth, you’ll have three better hitters and theoretically more RBI chances.
I’m missing something with the pitcher batting eighth.
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on Friday, April 11th, 2008 at 6:30 pm by John Delcos.
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Batting the picther 8th would also make it harder for the 7th place hitter to get good picthes sometimes b/c the pitcher would come up next just as it makes it harder for the 8th place guy (not as good as the 7th hitter) to get good pitches sometimes b/c the pitcher is next.
To Scoopcoop: I hadn’t thought of that, but you’re right. So it would end up screwing up three spots in the order.-JD
1. In this world of babied pitchers the pitcher normally bats only twice. So in the last several innings you are using a PH who is probably a better hitter than the normal # 8. So you have a better chance in the key part of your game to kill a rally started by your 5-6 guys with your # 8 guy than with your Pinch hitter.
2. More and more # 1 hitters can drive the ball now then in the day of Wills or Aparicio or Rizzuto. So there is less need for a sacrifice bunt for the # 1 guy. Also if the pitcher gets on base he hogs up the base paths for the # 1 guy. He’ll only go to second on a singele, 3 rd on a double. A # 2 guy batting 9th should do better or be able to be part of a double steal. Also if you have the pitcher 9th and get a sacrifice And Castillo is batting 2nd Reyes gets walked and Castillo hits a slow grounder that you hope is too slow to be a DP.
3. Its something to discuss that’s better than discussing the Heilmann scowl!
there are a bunch of line-up analysis tools on the internet that, though crude, if you put in every hitter’s OBP and Slugging, will give you the line-up that “scores” the most runs.
usually the best hitter hits #2 and the worst hitter (including the pitcher) hits 8th.
basically, you actually do get a couple of extra runs a year by batting the pitcher 8th and another guy 9. not a big difference, but a difference nonetheless
Unless your starting pitcher is a better hitter then your 9th place hitter (Micah Owings, Carlos Zambrano, Dontrelle Willis), its just a disaster for the lineup.
Hey I’m not going to complain
Kendall is off to a huge fluke start, Manny Parra is a pitcher, Gabe Gross is hitting .143, JJ Hardy is hitting .200, Rickie Weeks is hitting .189
So as long as we can contain Braun, Hall and Fielder, the rest of that lineup looks like a joke.
You’re really going off of someone’s batting average after 2 weeks? Hardy and Weeks are solid hitters. And don’t forget Corey Hart.
Oh, and as for batting order, I personally like to have the best hitter hit 3rd in the order. This way, he gets up in the first inning. (see Griffey Jr., Frank Thomas, Bonds, Pujols, etc.)
I really thought the Mets blew a shot at an explosive/exciting lineup down the stretch last year: Reyes, Milledge, Wright, Beltran, Alou, Delgado, Gotay, LoDuca. But they had to go and mess it up by platooning Millz and trading for Castillo.
Because Tony LaRussa did it first and he is a genius (just ask him). I will also add that in 1974 when Tom Landry started to have his quarterback in the “shothun” formation for passing downs, plenty of people doubted it (too many bad snaps). After a few years it became standard. In other words, keep an open mind. But I wouldn’t do it unless I had a good hitting pitcher.
Gary and Ron explained Yost’s thinking and it seemed better than La Russa’s. La Russa wants the same amount of men to get up in front of Pujols but he also wants him to come up in the 1st inning every game.
Dan: LaRussa was not the first, check the posts from the other day. sloppy pointed out the Bobby Bragan did this years ago.
My thought on why it may work is how many times have you seen the # 8 hitter come up in the 2nd inning with 2 outs and you are hoping he can get on just to clear the pitcher’s spot. If the pitcher hits 8th this is no longer
a problem.