Mets Chat: The key in losing Gotay for me
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- March
- 29
I can see both sides of the Gotay issue, but for me the downside in seeing the guy go is the potential problem at second base. Luis Castillo has two bum knees and is there anybody besides me who can’t see a breakdown there?
Yeah, there’s Anderson Hernandez in the minors, but he can’t hit. Gotay is no Gold Glover, but he’s not a butcher, either. I can see Hernandez kicking away more Met rallies with his bat than I can see Gotay blowing games with his glove.
Losing Gotay isn’t going to make or break this season, but he’s young and athletic. However, because he hasn’t had full time at-bats we don’t really know what to expect. Fernando Tatis, on the other hand, is 33 and coming off injuries. He’s been relatively non-existent the past few years.
I think Gotay can do more things overall, such as bunt and pinch-run.
I would think Gotay has a greater upside, and if the Mets really needed a Tatis-type player, they could get one at anytime. If not re-signing him later.
This entry was posted
on Saturday, March 29th, 2008 at 7:51 pm by John Delcos.
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John,
Gary said during the last broadcast that the team believes Anderson Machado has the best hands in the org. and if he can learn to bunt to increase his OBP there big on him. Machado may have made Gotay expendable and he may have past Ahern on the depth chart. Willie would rather win games 1-0 with no errors then 8-6 with 3 errors.
Ruben Gotay was not competing with Tatis for a roster spot. He was competing with Damion Easley and Marlon Anderson, who are our backup 2nd basemen, the position Gotay plays most prominently, other then MAYBE playing some 3rd. If we kept Gotay, I just don't see how you keep that many backup 2nd basemen and that many lefty pinch hitters. I just don't see it. It's a shame, because I liked the kid, a nice young player, but his value is as a developing player who needs to play everyday (like in our AAA system, which is what we tried to do) not as a bench player, where veterans usually do better.
I didn't like seeing him go either, but he just can't hit lefties, which is the glaring need for our bench guy right now. Fact of the matter is, it as a numbers game, if he had an option left, he'd be in AAA right now (or heading there) but I believe I just saw Machado make a great play in the 9th of the civil rights game, and I could see why they would bail on Gotay. -Then again, it just boils down to us needing someone for one spot who can hit lefties until Alou's back. -Marlon, Easley, provide solid depth, and Tatis is a good stop gap. Hopefully Valentin gets back to 100% and we have ourselves a "good" numbers problem again. All right, it's about beer thirty, here's to Monday…
You mean the Marlon Anderson who played ZERO GAMES for the NY Mets at 2B last year. Bull…. Lets see, most pitchers are RH and we have how many lefties on the bench Endy and Anderson…. Makes sense to me…. George Bush must love you guys.
Hit the send to soon: Its definitely bull also because how could he be competing weith two guys the Mets signed as free agents to ML contracts. If that was the case they sdhouldn't have had him in their camp.
so by that reasoning, sloppy, there should be no minor leaguers in camp at all? No Fernando Martinez? But really, if you agree with me in the end, why do youhave to get all on my back like that?
I was agreeing with you, not….. he was not competing with marlon and damion….. those 2 were not competing for jobs. got it now???
How many games before steeple becomes the looper of '08? Think he'll get thru the first homestand? Was Canseco his fielding coach?
to add to my point, I just don't see Gotay having enough versatility to be a bench player for us. He would make a fine backup, but you can't have a one dimensional type player like Gotay on the bench. Young backups like him should be in the minors, unfortunately he was out of options. If he could play SS, I might be inclined to say different, but with no other position besides 2b and not being adequate from the right side of the plate, at all, i just don't see where he fit in.
JD,
Why have a guy like Castillio who a proven player with "two bum knees" needs backup from a guy with a bum ankle? I can see your point if the Mets were waivering a guy in solid health but that is not the case.
A pinch runner with a recovering ankle problem? Yea that makes a whole lot sense.
JD
I agree with you. I also see the point others make here about options and versatility.
I guess in the end it is a numbers game, but it still sucks.
The fact is that there was only one open position if you go by ML contracts when ST began. And that position had to be take by somebody who could play a respectable OF in replace of Alou. And Pagan stepped up and played a good spring.
Gotay may not have been competing w/Anderson in the sense that Anderson had a ML contract, but he was competing w/him in the sense that they are both the same type of player-good LH hitters who do not play good defense.
And Willie is an Anderson fan. So Anderson gets the position b/c he has a contract and he is a Willie favorite.
And since Mets already had their primary LH PH, Gotay was the odd man out especially when they have someone that can play 2B who also happens to be a good RH hitter-Easley.
If he could hit RH, he probably makes the team as the 2nd RH hitter off the bench. But he can't. If he had options, Mets would have kept him. So you can say he never had a chance. But the Mets must feel Castillo is going to be ok. I doubt they let Gotay go otherwise.
But there is no doubt that Mets will have issues if Castillo gets hurt b/c they have no one to replace him for any extended time down at NO. But you can the same for just about any of the position players (or for that matter the SP).
All I know is that people keep saying that the Mets will be hurt by LH pitching. Then they turn around and say we should keep Gotay eventhough he can't help against LH pitchers. You can't have both.
Tatis or Clark are not great options to help against RH either. But they are better (at least Clark) than Gotay at hitting LH pitching. And to some peoples issue w/Church not hitting LH pitching, Mets need some insurance against that too. Clark at least might be a viable option to play against those tougher LHs and maybe he can play some 1B.
It would be great if they could find a way to get a better RH bat, but the depth issue comes up here too b/c Omar does not have anything to trade (except some BP which I would guess he does not want to trade on 3/30).
Besides, like the Eldud issue, they are not going to go out and get a RH bat (that plays OF), that is a "permanent" replacement b/c the Mets are expecting Alou to come back (at some point) and play (if for no other reason that they are paying him-b/c if they pay, they will play-Mets philosophy).
Omar and Willie will be crossing their fingers all yr long that they don't have any more Alou (out for a month or more) type injuries.
John, the problem I have with this argument is that you're forgetting that Gotay played a below average 2B in the first place. If Castillo was to go down, Damion Easley can play second base. Marlon Anderson can play second base. Omar Minaya stated on his interview on SNY the other day that Fernando Tatis can play second base. Jose Valentin could (If healthy), and if worse comes to worst we could call up Anderson Hernandez, Anderson Machado, or even someone like Argenis Reyes who had a nice camp. There's no shortage of options who could play 2B, none of which who would be worse then Ruben Gotay (Who is below average Defensively anyways).
In fact, I would bank that a Marlon Anderson and Damion Easley platoon would not only be better Offensively then Ruben Gotay, but Defensively as well.
The thing with Gotay is that he's an extremely limited player. He can't play Defense, He can't hit Lefties, and really his Minor League numbers indicate that last year's hot streak was probably a fluke as he's hit about .260 the last 3 years in the Minors, nevermind that Gotay hit below .200 in August and September after his hot streak ended. You say that he has upside, I believe he's already maxed out because of his limitations.
"sloppy
March 29th, 2008 at 8:45 pm
You mean the Marlon Anderson who played ZERO GAMES for the NY Mets at 2B last year. Bull…. Lets see, most pitchers are RH and we have how many lefties on the bench Endy and Anderson…. Makes sense to me…. George Bush must love you guys."
You do realize Marlon Anderson has started over 600 games in his career at 2B, right? Meanwhile he hasn't even started 100 games combined at the other positions. Granted, he's not very good Defensively there, but neither was Gotay.
As for how many Lefties we have on the bench it isn't necessary to have a bunch. Our starting lineup, almost across the board does better against Right Handed Pitching then they do against Lefties. You're not going to be substituting out our regulars against Righties. You only need 2 guys or so on the bench who can A) Give your starters the occasional day off or B) Pinch Hit for the Pitcher. The RHB who can hit Lefties on the other hand are more important for this team because Delgado and Church both struggle against LHP. They'll be having plenty of off days against LHP and in other days might need to be pinch hit for against some tough LOOGY in the 7th Inning of games.
To scoopcoop: I see certain types of people are not being called 2 cent brains anymore but now you have nasty nickname for certain Latino players like Eldud? Have any for non Latino players. Your subtle racism is so much worse than the blatant folks. We can handle them easily, but you just keep coming up with thise cute ways to do it, don't you.
Derek, Marlon Anderson is terrible defensively. He has a pop gun arm and almost zero range. All he can do it hit… that's it.
You guys are totally overblowing Gotay's deficiencies in the field. I'll concede he was poor against LH pitching, but he really wasn't that bad in the field.
Remember, Gotay was our starting 2B when Valentin went down, and Marlon and Easley were both on the team last year. We basically had the same team structure last year with Green in RF and LoDuca behind the plate (yes I know he was RH, but he couldn't hit anybody last year), so why is this such a huge issue this year?
The Mets didn't need to waive Gotay until a full month had passed. There are a lot of days off in the first month, so I doubt many starters will be sitting down. Plus, who, other than the pitcher, are they going to pinch hit for (ok, maybe schneider)? The team has said they are going to give Church a chance to hit against lefties… so you have to assume he'll get at least a month, no?
Anyway, you all focus too much on what Gotay couldn't do instead of what he can do… which is provide some pop at 2B.
If Gotay had been released by someone else and picked up by the Mets we would have heard how hard he is working to improve his defense, how solid a hitter he is, how we can't use his RH stats because they are so few, how verstile he is because he can play 2nd SS and 3rd. So instead we hear the same crap about a guy who has been so horrendous a player that he hasn't been on a ny majhor league team 3 of the last 4 years. Anyone who says anything positive about Tatis has no credibility, other than as a Minaya lackey….. because all you can do is repeat his propoganda campaign.
You don't like Gotay, fine, but don't describe him as if he's Ryan Cnhurch who you all love so much for having all the same faults as you say Gotay has, and then say this 29 year old needs to get a chance to prove himself. The Nationals may suck but it only strengthens the fact that he couldn't earn an everyday job on a lousy team with a good manager so why does anyone even hint on him doing good and learning on a team that is supposed to contend.
metsfan asks: "so by that reasoning, sloppy, there should be no minor leaguers in camp at all"
No metsfan, that reasoning says that if a guy has no future with your team, and has no chance to be a part of your team then he shouldn't be in your camp.
The Mets told Gotay to learn SS and 3B to become more valuable and he didn't which basically punched his ticket out of here. This one could come back to bit us in the ass big time as I believe the team he went to just happens to play in the same division.
Knowing my lovable Mets he will stick it up our asses all year and we will be watching the Braves play deep into October. Willie will get fired and this will be one of his going away presents.