There’s a lot to talk about, so anything is on the table.
The fifth starter issue remains unresolved. It could be determined tomorrow. Or maybe they’ll go with four and wait a couple of weeks. What should they do? Mike Pelfrey or Orlando Hernandez? Jorge Sosa or Nelson Figueroa? Or should they do nothing?
Tell me what you think and vote in the poll.
36 Comments
They have already stated that they will go w/5.
Pelfrey by default b/c Eldud is probably Eldone. Figgy is stinky. And it does not appear that they want Sosa to do it either.
I vote “Sign Vargas.”
I would go with Sosa if he was ready. I am not sure if he has been stretched in any of his games this spring. If Pelfrey can show some grit tomorrow, then that may change my mind.
I took a liking to Figueroa when I read what you wrote about him. Why not give him a chance?
Pelfrey needs multiple trips to a sports psychologist right now more than a trip to the minors. This defeatist and passive attitude may be more harmful to his advancement than anything else. If only he had the spunk and determination of a kid like Carlos Gomez, he’d be much better off.
But since there’s not enough time to fix Pelfrey’s head before next week, they should just give the 5th spot to whoever pitches best tomorrow, assuming at least one of them turns in a credible performance. If there’s a repeat of the last time they both pitched, just go with Figueroa or Stokes instead for the fifth spot, at least temporarily. I’d save Sosa for the pen where he’s most valuable.
I don’t think Omar pays enough attention to makeup when he evaluates talent.
tomorrow will be a good tell. If Duque feels good and shows improvement, then he will get the job, although they may decide to go with Sosa for a couple of games until Duque is fully ready. Pelfrey starts in AAA that way.
If Duque is a mess and is in pain, or otherwise takes a step back, they will probably just decide that pelf is the man and go that way.
IMO, in the second scenerio, they should still put Pelf in AAA, and get another option. COuld be Sosa, but maybe Figeruoa or Vargas? Marquis? Someone that could (hopefully/possibly) actually hold down the 5th spot for an extended period of time (IOW, a “real” starter instead of a stop-gap fill in).
My guess? If one of them pitches well, they get the job. If neither one does, punt.
Oh, and the mets certainly are hoping for Duque to get it, since if Pelfrey gets the job, it could get messy when Duque finally comes back. If Duque starts out the season (or shortly after) as the 5, Pelf can just go hang out at AAA.
Nelson Figueroa may be a regular Will Rogers, but has been damn unimpressive and I doubt he could last more than a couple of innings in a real big league game. Pelfrey…he’s Pelfrey, enough said. I vote for Sosa and assigning El Duque to extended spring training, where he’ll right himself.
And Bobby Parnell looked very impressive yesterday—much more so than Pelfrey. Why doesn’t he get more of a look.
As for Claudio Vargas, do we really want to waste money on a mediocre pitcher whose ERA has increased with each passing year?
Let me see…. Every possible starter that they have given the chance to start has either failed miserably or self destructed with an injury. perhaps…..Just perhaps.. this might be Heilman’s turn??? What can they lose?? Give the kid a try…
I would agree with Heilman except that he has not been stretched either. It doesn’ t help to have a starter that you know wont go past three innings.
Pelfrey needs a chance. El Duque is jsut not healthy. Give Pelf 5 starts, if he can put it together, keep him up. If not, give someone else the spot. Many teams have mush worse 5th starters then us
This will be the third straight year we don’t have a 5th starter. Why do we need to change something that has been so much fun? I think our all time favorite Victor Zambrano got cut. Let’s give him another chance….. Did Trachsel make the Orioles. Hes always fun. We always won when he pitched because the other team fell asleep faster than our gutys did. Forget Trax. He made the O’s. Hope we don;t play them this year. Marcus Giles. He got cut… He bats righty (whoops, different subject).... An ex Brave… maybe he’ll storm the mound when a glavine slow ball brushes him back….. Rudy Seanez got cut. how about him then Aaron H can start and be happy….
So many options for the revolving door formerly known as the 5th starter.
Please, when does a real Met game happen?????????
They gave Pelfrey a chance last year and he spit the bit, and he hasn’t showed anything so far in ST. He needs to go down to AAA, get his head straight, dominate and then come up ready to go. In the meantime, if El Duque isn’t ready, put Sosa in the 5th spot.
Jon Patterson
I agree sloppy. Seriously, can we please get a 5th starter in here. I’m not asking for much. A Vargas, a Jason Marquis, somebody.
I’ve seen enough of Pelfrey… he needs to go to AAA and improve.
I want to see what El Duque does tomorrow, but I’m really leaning towards sticking Jorge Sosa in the rotation and taking Brian Stokes or Nelson Fiqueroa for his spot in the bullpen.
For those that are advocating Aaron Heilman for the starting rotation, would you please share your plans for replacing him in the bullpen?
I read somewhere that Randolph thinks Brian Stokes should be a starter. They did let him go 4 innings the other day in a minor league game. This is the kind of crazy thinking that always gets the Mets in trouble. Since he’s still on the roster this late in ST, it’s clear they’d like to keep him. Stokes might end up getting the 5th starter job by default if El Duque and Pelfrey crap the sheets tomorrow.
Nelson Figueroa pitched 153.2 innings in 19 games last year in Triple A (Mexican League), that’s 8 innings per game. He had 10 complete games. Last month in the round-robin Caribe World Series against the eventual 2008 Caribe Series champions, the Dominican Republic Licey Tigres, Figueroa pitched into the 10 inning for Mexico, allowed one run, and left after a one out single – no decision. Two days later, he pitched in relief against the same DR team, 4-4, bottom of the 9th, one out, 1st and 3rd (winning run). 3 pitches later (pop up, ground out), the inning was over. Mexico scored 3 in the 10th and Figueroa retired the side 1-2-3 to win the game. He was voted Caribe Series MVP.
But that was the Caribe Series not the Majors but the Dominican Republic line-up included Timo Perez, Nelson Cruz, Jose Offerman, Ron Belliard, and Anderson Hernandez. Miguel Tejada, Victor Diaz, Rafael Furcal, Tony Pena, and Ramon Castro were among the other Major Leaguers who played in the 2008 Caribe Series.
As a starter, Nelson Figueroa can give the Mets 250 innings in 2008.
One more thing: “Figgy is stinky” and “damn unimpressive” ? He’s pitched 16.2 innings: 14.2 innings allowing 2 runs; 1 inning vs Boston 3 runs (on two 2-out singles) and 1 inning vs Florida 3 runs on one bad pitch, a 3-run wind-blown HR according to the announcer calling the game, the only runs Figueroa’s given up in 9 innings of relief. That’s not stinky. That’s not unimpressive.
I’d give Pelfrey the ball. There’s no question he has the stuff; I’d let him have the time in the show with Johan and Pedro. The time would have to be productive, yes, but the influence and effect those two could have on him could be invaluable..2 PRO’s, who know their craft better than anyone.
I don’t think “hunger” is his problem…I think it’s a lack of confidence, or maybe he has too many voices in his ear. Let him have the time with PM and JS. Yes, He was rushed up, but lets not forget that he has, what, not quite 3 yrs of pro ball under his belt.
Maybe El Duque is learning a knuckle ball. Then he can pitch another decade.
Of the options available, I gotta reluctantly go with:
“Pelfrey and hope for the best”.
If you’re gonna send a total question mark out there, might as well send a guy out there who could in theory learn something from it.
El Duque’s done, Sosa gets figured out quickly by the opposition, Figueroa… c’mon, Mexican League stats don’t count for anything against the majors…
Out of all the bad options, at least there’s a shot the light will go off in Pelfquest’s head.
The biggest problem w/the 5th guy this yr is that they don’t know what Eldud can give them or they do know he won’t give them much but they are holding out hope.
Either way, Met history stipulates that if they pay a guy and he is not hurt, he must play. And if Eldud is not hurt, he is gonna pitch at some point.
Therefore, I don’t think they want any option (like a Vargas) that will be a “permanent” 5th guy.
Now, I’ll be postive and get slammed. If Santana, pedro, Maine and Perez combined for 60 wins, then all Mets need from the 5th guys, is 5 wins or so.
Now I will get slammed by the people who don’t like stats. 65 wins by the SP generally gives you 90 for the team. 90 should get Mets to playoffs.
Therefore, the 5th guy is not that big of an issue (as long as it is somebody who doesn’t go out there and consistently pitch 2.2 inn and give up 6 runs-which will kill the BP).
Slam away.
Stokes getting the 5th spot? that makes sense. he can be the new Lima. he can be my 5th guy scenario where he pitches 2.2 and 6 runs.
The way Omar was talking I dont think they expect Duque to be ready even if he pitches effectively on Friday.
In the short term I would go with some combination of Sosa and Figueroa or Stokes to get them through the early part of the season when they have plenty of off days and the 5th starter will get sporadic work. Duque will then get a number of starts to see if he can get it done, then Pelfrey will have a shot for a while. If nothing works out by mid season they will be looking at a trade, or Freddy Garcia or Bartolo Colon… or punt
My version of the ‘punt’ option would be 4 innings of Figueroa, 4 innings of Stokes, giving up 6-10 runs every 5th game. Hope to win 3 of 4 each time with the top 4 starters so they keep the .600 pace. :)
scoop, regarding Stokes, he’d be an adequate backup/emergency starter if both Pelfrey and El Duque pitch poorly again. Stokes stunk as a reliever last year, but he made 4 starts with TB in ’06 with an ERA of 3.38. He mostly started in the minors too and his numbers are pretty decent. So in a pinch I think he’d be OK. .
I’m pulling for Pelfrey to pitch well, though. What’s heartening is that a good number of fans voted for him in the poll here (he currently leads all other options), even though he was awful his last start. It’s nice to see that a significant number of fans are pretty patient when it comes to him.
HDarvick: Figueroa has shown to be much less effective against AA and lower players this spring than he was in his recent adventures around the globe. I think he can be effective in short spurts, but the idea of him facing a lineup three times really scares me.
He could pull off a decent Darren Oliver impersonation, which might end up being 3-6 innings every 5th game in the end, but I just dont see him being an effective big league starter.
Plus, his extended use in the Mexican league last summer, then pitching in China in the fall, then a full Winter League would worry me regarding his ability to pitch another 160+ innings. He’ll have pitched somewhere between 400 to 500 innings in 18 months if he does it. Which is insane.
I am simultaniously impressed beyond words and baffled by Figueroa’s last 10 months of pitching success. I realize he doesnt throw hard, but could the dude use a rest sometime? ever?
I actually like Nelson Figgueroa, I think his control is his strongest point and can make his succesful.
I’d like to see hi get a chance. He also has a rubber arm which can’t hurt.
The only thing that worries me is how deep into a ballgame he can go on a start.
They need to sign another arm.
I find it hard to believe that every available pitcher on the market, open to trade, waivers, etc.. is worse than what the options are for the Mets.
They signed Santana, so inductively thinking since this winter they have not disappointed me yet and I think they will make the right decision in the long run with whatever they go with.
I think all met 5th starters should be called Lawrence Lima. those two set the bar so low that the position should be named in both their honor. We’ll just number them so we can differntiate. When one really excels we’ll give the title a middle name.
By the way rebel the Mets traded for Santana…..
Nice idea slop… what about Jeremi Lawrence-Lima?
Or we could sign Jeff Weaver.
The funny thing is I am only half kidding.
I can’t stand Pelfrey’s timidity, anymore (“I just want this to be over”). El Duque is old, injury prone, with no pop on his fastball and his best days behind him. But you pretty much have to tear his heart out on the mound if you want him to give in. Pelfrey may be more talented at this point in their careers, but he folds everytime at the slightest sign of trouble. If Duque is healthy, I’ll take the old warhorse anyday.
Jeremi Lawrence-Lima…. I like it.. Especially with the dash.
Jeremi Eldud Lawrence-Lima.
Jeremi Ho Lawrence-Lima
Scoop coop You addition has been rejected for two reasons:
1. We never had a pitcher named Eldud and;
2. If you meant El Duque he pitched far too many quality starts to be considered to be in league with these other esteemed number 5 wannabees.
Now the name Ho can be added proudly!!!!
We need to work on a name for a crappy reliever.
Any ideas?
Jorge Mel Koo-Young?