About Gotay …
-
- March
- 26
 
Ruben Gotay hit against Pedro Martinez in his minor league game. News he was placed on waivers is inaccurate. That’s not to say it won’t in the future, but not right now. He appears to have fallen behind Fernando Tatis.
The emergence of Tatis could also push out Brady Clark.
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on Wednesday, March 26th, 2008 at 1:31 pm by John Delcos.
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This is weird.
Kevin Burkhardt said on the pre-game remarks on SNY that Gotay was put on waivers.
My question is WHY do the Mets want to get rid of Ruben?
Gotay’s a good lefty bat off the bench, though his speed and defense leave something to be desired.
Not sure why the Mets want to part with the kid.
“Gotay’s a good lefty bat off the bench, though his speed and defense leave something to be desired…”
Do we need another loefty off the bench? You answered your own question.
I don’t believe that they want to get rid of him. But he and Pagan do not hit lefties well. And w/Pagan having a healthy and better spring and Alou out, he gets the nod. Plus he looks to be better defensively (albeit it is OF vs infield). And with Chavez, and Anderson, you only have Easely as a RH on the bench.
So Tatis might get it simply b/c there is no one else to be the 2nd RH bench hitter unless they keep three catchers and Castro PH when he doesn’t play.
This is not an evil conspiracy against Gotay.
yup agreed scoopcoop, Gotay just doesn’t seem to fit into their plans at all. We already have backups for the infield (and not like Gotay can play any SS anyway) and he can’t hit lefties. I like gotay as a player and hopefully he’ll clear waivers when that time comes, but we’ll have to see.
Since when did Gotay become the second coming of Chase Utley.
If the Mets are able to get him to clear waivers or however they need to get him to New Orleans. Gotay will be better off for the month of April and so will the Mets. Gotay has a bad ankle that could probably need more rest and with Anderson and Easley here it is not as if he would get many AB’s in April.
I am really tired of “The world is coming to an end” mentality because many think the Mets do not have the right guy at the end of the bench on opening day.
Someone should tell me right now how many meaningful AB’s they think the 25th guy will have in April.
If this team plays as well as it should the answer is 0.
Gentlemen … Gotay was not placed on waivers.-JD
Scott P, thankyou for bringing some sanity. It is quite amazing that folks get so worked up about the last guy in the BP or the last guy on the bench.
And I agree that Gotay is a nice LH bat, but he is not Utley.
It sounds like Omar is going to give nod to Pelfrey unless he really stinks on Friday.
It sounds like Stokes is the final guy (ugh) and Smith is out unless Sosa gets 5th spot.
The question is not “Why not Gotay?,” but rather, “Why Tatis over Clark?” Is it b/c Tatis can play the infield? B/c other than that, Clark hits lefties pretty well, if not for power, and Tatis has been an embarassment for years now.
Gotay, and Keppinger before him, have nice bats at times and limited fielding ability. The limited fielding ability is never going to win you favor with a manager who was a very good fielder and knows the value of not giving any team extra outs at the plate due to average fielding. My only question has always been why did they trade Keppinger for Gotay to begin with when you know his chance of sticking with the current manager and FO was slim and none?
Stillsane, maybe it was like Heath Bell. Neither Bell nor Keppinger got along w/management.
W/smtih givin up 3 and Figgy givin up 3, does that give it to Hitman Stokes?
Scoop: Well it really screws up my thinking about Figueroa as making the #5 guy in rotation. I can get Pelfrey to do what he did.
scoopcoop: Why do you come up with conspiracy theories.
I never heard anywhere that Keppinger had a problem with management. Keppinger is a below average middle infielder, a utility guy at best who Omar traded for Gotay, a player he thought had more upside. Both are end of the bench players at best. If you think either one of these guys is the difference between the Mets making the playoffs or falling short you know nothing about baseball. Angel Pagan and Endy Chavez will be more important players in April and May than Gotay.
Yes Heath Bell is a different story, Bell had some conflict with management and everyone knows that.
Keppinger made comments that he was not being given a chance. He complained pretty loudly to the press. Next thing you know, he is on a bus to KC. In fact he basically said that his comments got him tossed out and he was happy about it b/c he thought he’d never get a chance. Delusion of grandure I guess b/c he was/is a singles hitter who can’t field either. I’d say that is pretty good linkage to his departure.
Where do you read that I said Gotay is a difference maker. I’ve been scoulded for even mentioning that he is not good w/the glove or from the right side w/the bat. I said consipracy w/Gotay b/c there are many that think he is a difference maker and think there is some Omar dislike for the guy. If he could hit RH, he’d probably be on the team. But he can’t, so he probably won’t.
If you want to direct your comments on Gotay not being a difference maker don’t do so w/ Sloppy. He loves him.
scoopcoop: when your right you’re right. With that I am sorry.
My comments on Gotay are more in general terms and I am sorry that they were directed at you I am just tired of this mantra the Mets do not give kids a chance every time the play a vet.
The manager was a very good 2nd baseman for many years if he thought Gotay had the ability to play everyday don’t you think he would have pushed his cause.
I will also agree with you on the point if Gotay could hit righthanded all of this conversation would be irrelevant.
“I am really tired of “The world is coming to an end†mentality because many think the Mets do not have the right guy at the end of the bench on opening day.”
And I’m really tired of Omar lackies like Scott from Pelham telling me what to say or think…..
We have to talk about the end of the bench because everyone is sick if talking about Church and since there is nobody in the system qualified to be a 5th starter that is the only thing to talk about.
Gotay is certainly no Utley and Tatis is certainly no major league ballpalyer….
I think you are exactly right about Willie and 2B. He could not stand Matsui b/c he would not stand in there and take the punishment on the DP. And athough Gotay is not skiddish on the DP, he is not very good at it. And Willie is not going to be laxed on 2B defense.
as far as the kids not gettin a chance you are right on that as well, to a point. I think it is fair to say that Omar favors vets.
But it is not true that he never gives young guys a chance. I have pointed this out many times and I get scoulded for that too.
If Omar never gave young guys a chance, 2/5 or maybe even 3/5 of the SP would not be guys under 30.
There are many other examples, but when I point them out, I get the “yeah but” response.
All I can say is believe what you want. But I watch w/my eyes and I see guys on the field that are not all 35++.
Mets are a veteran team that is for sure. The fact is that they are 2nd or 3rd oldest in MLB. The fact is that they are a big market team. And big market teams are gonna be older b/c they have the money to buy FAs (who are generally older, especially now that guys are being bought out thru their arb yrs). And w/the fan base of NY not being a patient bunch, how can a franchise wait around for young guys to grow up? And Omar has not shown an ability to develop young, unproven talent.
So you add these together, and if the Mets are gonna win, they are gonna be filled w/Vets.
Mets are not the Braves (build from w/in) despite Omar’s proclamation that that is what he wanted/wants to do.
And if Omar wants the Mets to be the Braves (win 14 NL East flags in a row), he better bring somebody in who is a better unproven talent evaluator.
Or he better convinced Jeff Wilpon to spend like the Yankees.
Or he better get lucky on a couple more trades like the Santana one (get alot and give up little).
Why is it that anyone who doesn’t agree that guys like Gotay don’t play is automatically made a lacky of Omar?
And why is it that so many people complain about the makeup of the team yet don’t give realistic alternatives or usually give no alternatives?
So many are complaining about Tatis. I’m no fan of his, but who else can they use as a RH bat off the bench. Or better yet, play RF b/c you all feel Church can’t hit lefties? Maybe he can’t. But what is your solution?
My guess is that it won’t take long for many to complain that Willie left Church in a game against a lefty BP guy, yet don’t have an answer for who will be the RH PH.
“And w/the fan base of NY not being a patient bunch, how can a franchise wait around for young guys to grow up?”
This is the biggest bunch of Mike and the Mad Dog contrived BS I have ever heard and I can’t stand it when it’s brought up. If my team is going to stink, I’d rather it be our young kids who we’re developing rather than watching Mike Cameron take a golden sombrero.
You want the argument for Gotay? Here it is: he’s a former top prospect who was given a hot last year and played very well for us last year. Personally, I saw some nice things in his game, particularly a doubles stroke from the left side, and really nice hands at the plate… he’s quick to the ball and gets the bat head through the zone fast.
Does he have flaws? Yes. He’s shake in the field at best, however, here are two mitigating factors: 1) he’s still young and athletic. If Willie can turn Soriano into an adequate 2B, I think he could have done so with Ruben. 2) And perhaps most important of all, we have a fly ball staff! Other than Pelfrey, none of our starters are ground ball pitchers who rack up a lot of K’s, so the need for Roberto Alomar circe 1995 is not a big one for our Mets.
As for his hitting from the right side, the only way he will improve is through PT, and at the worst, he would be a really solid LH part of a platoon. Further, most pitchers are RH, so it’s better that he hits lefties and not righties anyway. Much harder to find the LH part of a 2B platoon. Quick commentary: why don’t more teams utilize platoons these days? Especially in the NL? It’s mind boggling, some great managers have used platoons to much success: Davey Johnson, Earl Weaver, Jim Leyland, Sparky Anderson, etc.
Lastly, platooning Gotay with Easley would have been a more efficient use of resources than signing Catsillo for 4 years. That money could have been used to improve other aspects of the team (think RH hitting OF), or even stashed for a move at a later date (think Claudio Vargas for 5th starter.)
keith, you are in the minority. NY fans are not patient. All you have to do is listen to the radio or see polls. They want winners, now!
I’d like to see more young guys too. It is not going to happen.
Willie never turned Soriano into an adequate 2B. He was a butcher. That is why he is now an OF.
Plus, you can’t compare Gotay to Soriano b/c Soriano is way better offensively. If Gotay had Soriano’s bat, he would play. But he would be playing for the Royals.
Bottom line is that Willie was a 2B. He wants very good D at 2B. He had to put up w/Soriano’s defense b/c he was not the manager and I’m sure had little say.
And when a guy like Soriano comes up and hits the cover off the ball from day 1, he plays. Even if he is a butcher.
I guess this argument will be moot soon b/c it certainly seems that Gotay is on his way out.
Also, Mets had chance to get Soriano and didn’t. Many said it was b/c Willie did not like his defense (and his attitude).
“All you have to do is listen to the radio or see polls.”
Yeah, the same way the FCC listens to the freaks who were scarred for life by Nipplegate. Not exactly the smart way to go. In my experience, people on the radio do not reflect the general feeling of fans. Also, NY fans are supposed to be all intelligent, why don’t they know the best way to build a team is from within?
Soriano wasn’t that bad at 2B. If he was that bad the Yanks would have put him in the OF themselves or Texas would have. And the only point of comparison was athleticism. Of course Gotay doesn’t hit like Soriano.
This is my entire point about the Mets and young players. Unless they arrive sans flaws, they just give up on them.
I have to agree with scoop. the fans will not wait for young players to develop. case in point, on this forum I do not see the majority here who say put Pelf in at #5 and let him learn. The argument is whether El Duque has anything left and do we have anything better.
There was a time when we were not very good when the fans would live with young players with promise. That was when Jose and David came up.
Well, I think a lot of that has to do with the fan base’s confidence in Pelfrey at this point and time. I am all for youth and even I think Pelfrey needs to be sent to AAA to work on his breaking pitches.
I’ve seen a lot of support for Gotay on this forum, and a ton of support for Milledge. And even though I defended Ryan Church to the death (because I do think he will be a good player), I can’t say I wouldn’t have rather seen Milledge given RF this year. I know a lot of others feel the same.
I also know a lot of people who wish Omar would have kept Bannister last year (and said so way before Bannister put in the season he did).
Mets fans aren’t dumb. They saw what happened to the Yanks when they started making ridiculous FA signings. Plus, the Yanks are breaking in 3 young arms this year. Why isn’t anyone saying “Whoa, Yanks better be careful, the fans will not be patient with these young kids?”
Personally, I think it’s a BS excuse GM’s make when they trade for Mo Vaughn, Brett Saberhagen, Roberto Alomar, Juan Samuel, Victor Zambrano, Kris Benson, Billy Taylor, Kenny Rogers, etc and they don’t work out.
“Well, you guys want to WIN NOW!”
The only problem with all those players you mention is that all were not very good.
Not one of those players can you say wow. Glad we got em.
We can say that about Santana, Delgado, Paulie, etc in recent years.
And before anyone roasts me on Delgado, when we got him he was a very good high impact player who gave us legit pop in the middle of the lineup.
He was injured last year and with the exception of the expectations had a year that for almost every other player ( power wise ) you would say good year.
I actually think it’s roughly 50-50 in terms of fans who have the patience to wait for young kids to develop and those that want instant gratification through free agents and veterans. And it’s not black and white, but rather a large range of opinions on the spectrum. It’s not easy to pigeonhole the NY fan base.
But I don’t think there is any doubt that because of the large payrolls, the general expectation for winning is much larger than it is in smaller markets, as it should be. So you can understand why the GMs of all teams including the Red Sox, Yankees, as well as the Mets, sometimes make bonehead moves with veterans and free agents.
The pressure not only comes from the fans, but from the media and most importantly the owners too. No matter how much Cashman may want to stick with Hughes and Kennedy in the rotation, if they struggle and Hankie loses patience with them, they may end up back in the minors before too long.
dave: I don’t see anyone complaining when the kids are used for a star player. Delgado was indeed a star, Piazza was a star, Santana a star, the complaints is the force feeding, putting them in positions to fail regularly, Mulvey was an exception, a guy who was left alone for a season, to bring them up and then show no patience which devalues or screws up their confidence.
The argument about Gotay is not that he’s gonna be an allstar, its that a guy, who when he had a chance far exceeded expectations, showed life and excitement, and is being thrown away for a guy who hasn’t done it for nine years. Its just so Omar. He can’t handle a kid of any sort.
I’m not a NYer. I’ve never live in NYC. But when I go to NYC, everything moves faster and people are in a rush and have little patience for anything. And sports is no different than the rest of life.
Go to a place like Pittsburgh or Milwaukee as comparison. It is night and day. Things are more laid back in all aspects of life, including sports. Hence, it is fair to say that compared to most towns, NYers are not nearly as patient about anything including sports.
Can someone tell me what Tatis has done to warrant being on the roster. Being righty and an infielder seem to be his only quaifications. He has not played serious ball for a few years and his stats are nothing to write home about.
His last full season was in 02 w Montreal (Omar).
114 games, 228 avg.
I live near Pittsburgh. You think things in sports are laid back.. Go to a Steelers game or be in Pittsbugh Sept-Jan. You got it wrong. Its not laid back about the Pirates. Its given up. An example of what is wrong in baseball…. The disparity is really bad for the game in the long run. There are no Pirate fans. People go for give aways, fireworks and to see the occasional away team in years when someone like the Yankees play there. They go because the place is nice and the cost is no disgusting like it is in Wilponville. But laid back. You’re very wrong about that. The Pirates are why baseball is no longer the national pastime.
It is true that Steelers fan are crazy for their team. My point is that, in general, NYC is alot more rushed than cities like Pittsburgh, Cincy, Atl, etc. That leads to more impatience for everything.
NYC, the Mets and the Yankees are not like Houston Astros.
It isn’t that Tatis has earned a spot. But the fact is that Mets are too LH.
They need a 2nd RH bat that can play several positions. Tatis appears to be the only solution they have.
Tatis = Solution??????? not quite the right word my friend….. he’s proof of a system that is empty…... And some have written about how versatile he is… right I mean wrong…. all of 13 games in his whole pathetic career were played anywhere but third base. Bring back Eli Morero or wheateve his name was. At least he caught a bit. Question for you guys who buy the Minaya lies… Do you also buy the Bush lies? Tatis, a guy who had a very short spike, reminiscnet of Brady Anderson, I wonder why, you guys liked Mota? well what gave this guy his spike. what do you think???? I bet it wasn’t gatorade…...Vitamin C maybe?
In my posts I am pretty specific that I do not like the idea of Tatis. I am mearly pointing out that he is the only solution at this time.
Rant all you want, ghost, but if you have a better idea that can actually happen I’d like to hear your words of wisdom.
Scoopcoop: What I woud have done is nothing until the last second that forced me to put a guy on wavers and see who was being dumped. The guy had one roidal induced season so long ago its a joke that any team would pick him up. even for their old timers game. Don’t bitch about him when he’s costing us games like has been Franco did last year…..
And I love the hypocrisy. gotay; dump him because he hasn’t showed he can hit lefties, but church, keep him becauase he needs a chance to prove he can hit lefties… I guess Tatis needed to be rewarded for getting here late.
Look, if Tatis was like Super Joe or even Newhan and could play a bunch of positions well, then fine, but he’s not that great in the field himself. He hasn’t been relevant in years. At least Gotay has some upside.
I would have even been fine with Clark. At least he’s been in the bigs the last few years and can play the OF. Are we really going to be subjected to Tatis in LF?
I am kind of surprised about how irrationally annoyed I am about this, but Gotay really got hosed.
They trade Milledge because, as was speculated, of his attitude. Yet they resign Marlon Anderson, who had an inexcusable and costly blowup at the end of last season. Not to mention he plays even worse defense than Gotay and is getting up there in age.
Now they release Gotay, when all he did was bust his butt and played very well for us when they finally gave him a shot last season. So how do they reward a guy who they should be holding up on a pedestal as an example to other middling prospects of what happens if you work hard and take advantage of your opportunity? They put him on waivers.
Our bench, as constituted, stinks: Cassanova, Easley, Anderson, Chavez, and Tatis. That is just miserable. There is no one there with any upside or athleticism (save for Endy on the latter). Sure, Tatis and Anderson give you “versatility” but that’s using a literal definition of the word. Yeah, they literally give you versatility, but do they play any of these positions adequately? I don’t think so.
Does anyone know if Brady Clark still has a chance of making the roster? I thought he did a beter job than Tatis this spring to earn a spot.
According to one source he’s done. Bats did not end up on the bus.
Minaya is just a liar who will bend his words anyway he can to justify him favoring another latino over a player who actually deserves a spot. Cant wait to see him go after his contract is up. Grow up Minaya your not fooling anyone with your racism.