Comments on: Zip, zero, Zito

By: dave

dave — Mon, 24 Mar 2008 16:14:39 +0000

I am glad we didn't go for Zito at the price offered.

Good job Omar.

By: dave

dave — Mon, 24 Mar 2008 16:13:12 +0000

I think Pelf is just not ready yet. Maybe he never will which is why the 4 for Santana was good.

His second pitch was taken away and from what I read the slider isn't coming around.

By: Gil in Savannah, Ga.

Gil in Savannah, Ga. — Mon, 24 Mar 2008 16:12:11 +0000

I'm not giving up, either, metsfan.
But at some point this year or next, Mets scouts and brass will you have to ask themselves how much longer they're willing to wait for Pelfrey's possible blooming.
Should the Mets wait as long for Pelfrey as, say, the Expos did for Randy Johnson to realize his potential, before dealing him to Seattle in '89—where he launched his Hall of Fame career under different tutelage, for Mark Langston?
Or is Pelfrey more like another Paul Wilson or Bill Pulsipher, neither of whom could ever really get it together?

By: scoopcoop

scoopcoop — Mon, 24 Mar 2008 16:11:31 +0000

Zito's contract will go down as the worse one ever conceived or signed.

The difference b/w him and santana is that santana still has 2 out picthes even if his fastball is not 95.

Zito had a curve. But that doesn't work too well anymore either.

By: JK

JK — Mon, 24 Mar 2008 16:10:59 +0000

I don't think Pelfrey is done or not ever going to amount to anything. Maybe he'll never be more than a #5. Or maybe Peterson isn't the right pitching coach for him. He can't help everyone. It might be that Pelfrey will thrive under another pitching coach—just like Bell did.

However, since Pelfrey is here now, they should try to use him and challenge him in every way. I'm not sure how much he's going to be helped spending a year in New Orleans.

I suspect if he pitches well in his next start, and El Duque doesn't, then Pelfrey will be the #5 to start the season. El Duque will stay behind in extended ST to build up his strength. So if Pelfrey falters bad, then El Duque will be ready to step in.

I doubt they will use Sosa as the #5 starter. That just weakens the bullpen and I don't have faith in Figueroa.

By: metsfan

metsfan — Mon, 24 Mar 2008 15:55:06 +0000

you can analyze Pelfrey all you want, and I do'nt think he's ready for the season either, but what are you going to do? He's going to go to the minors and hopefully figure something out and get better. He's got the arm, a great pitch, and even has a decent secondary pitch (his change). Getting down on him is one thing, but calling him done, over, finished, or whatever, is useless to me. He's still a guy you hope turns it around, he's still quite young, and many pitchers take years to blossom. He probably needs to go down to the minors and stay there for a while, but who knows, anything can happen, but I'm certainly not giving up on the big kid yet.

By: Gil in Savannah, Ga.

Gil in Savannah, Ga. — Mon, 24 Mar 2008 15:47:25 +0000

Keith, yes Pelfrey is only 24, but how many more years do want to give him in AAA?
Wasn't he already there last year?
Seems like there are four outcomes with Pelfrey so far in his career:
1. He can't hanress his control
2.He gets battered all over the yard because his pitches, while powerfulk, have no movement
3. He gets battered all over the yard because he tips his pitches
4. He has a rare, outstanding start.
If he's consistent with that, that translates into a .250 winning percentage, which ain't gonna cut it in the big leagues.
Maybe the Mets organization is not where Pelfrey will achieve success. Hell, I hope I'm wrong, of course. I hope he does a great job at AAA and turns into the young stud pitcher we all hope he becomes.
And if not for the Mets, I hope he succeeds with someone else, after he's traded for another player or players of greater value.
At this rate, Pelfrey may become what the late sports talk radio show host Pete Franklin once called derisively called former Giants' catcher, Kirt Manwaring once he reached his late 20s, "a prospect forever."

By: Azy

Azy — Mon, 24 Mar 2008 15:40:23 +0000

In 2002, Zito's velocity was constantly around 88-92. His curve had tighter break and he actually had a decent change.

It just went downhill from there. The league caught up and his stuff has just degressed to where he is now, a 4 starter making 18 million a year.

By: Keith

Keith — Mon, 24 Mar 2008 15:15:36 +0000

First of all, Pelfrey's only 24 years old, so let's settle down with any kind of declaration regarding his career path. This is also a big reason why the Mets aren't giving up on this kid.

Pelfrey was the consensus #1 pitcher in the '05 draft and the Mets have done nothing to help this kid achieve success professionally. They've rushed him to the big and scrapped the curve ball that made him a great college pitcher for a slider that gets hammered and has no break.

Pelfrey needs to spend a year in AAA, get back to his curve, and focus on what has gotten him to this level. Pounding the zone with his fastball and mixing in his curve and changeup.

By: Ravi

Ravi — Mon, 24 Mar 2008 15:12:37 +0000

Not to mention that Zito had been trending downward in seasons leading up to his deal with the Giants…While Johan had a slightly atypical season last year with regards to his peripheral numbers (Wins/losses mean nothing..the Twinkies had a terrible offence), Zito has been in decline since his Cy Young season.

Of course the real downside of that deal was the Giants signing him at all…How did they not foresee being in rebuilding mode for a few seasons? They'll be lucky if they compete by year 4 of the Zito deal, becuase they certainly are not going to this year or next, given their poor, old team, and a deep NL West

By: Gil in Savannah, Ga.

Gil in Savannah, Ga. — Mon, 24 Mar 2008 15:06:36 +0000

I fail to understand why some Mets fans — an indeed the Mets brass is so wedded to Mike Pelfrey, as if he's the second coming of Nolan Ryan.
Pelfrey has shown little — except for his one great start over Atlanta late last year — to over the last two years as to why he's so special.
Once again, he's done nothing to distinguish himself this spring and practically threw batting practice yesterday, giving up, what 13 hits in four innings??!!
I'd much rather Pelfrey have been dealt for Santana than Deolis Guera. Pelfrey, if he is ever successful, will be best used in short spurts as a setup reliver.
Oh — and Jon, what's latest on Wagner's phantom pitching to minor leaguers yesterday? Wags admitted on SNY he didn't pitch to minor leaguers, as your entry says he did. Did the PR staff say it goofed?

By: Keith

Keith — Mon, 24 Mar 2008 14:53:39 +0000

Giving the deal to someone like Zito was dumb because he never threw all that hard. So once his velo dropped as he aged, his big loopy curve would become ineffective.

Guys like Pedro and Johan threw in the mid to high 90s in their prime, so when their velo drops we're talking low to mid 90s… which is fast enough for their killer changeups to remain effective. Further, they both have more control than Zito.