Comments on: Congratulations

By: sloppy

sloppy — Sat, 15 Mar 2008 20:46:16 +0000

We’ll have to disagree about numbers. Numbers don’t mention Agee’s 2 great catches in the 69 Series, numbers don’t mention Swoboda’s, numbers don’t mention the times a guy with hustle takes the extra base when the average Joe is satisfuied to go base to base. Numbers don’t tell us who makes the great plays. They only tell us a fielding percentage. They don’t tell us the errors a great first basemen prevents that a normal first basman doesn’t. They don’t tell us all the times a guy doesn’t try to score from second on a single because the outfielder has a great arm, or the reverse. They don’t tell us how a great base runner like Maury Wills totally disrupted the opposition,like Reyes is learning how to do, and the numbers doesn’t tell us how much a solid bat behind you helps you when you’re at bat. And every time a guy invents a new stat he twists numbers ina new way, making them less valuable. You can take your numbers but they miss an awful lot.
As for Church’s season last year, if he played 2nd base or catcher I would say he had a fine year. I look at him as a right fielder and I say he’s a dime a dozen. As for your 29 year late bloomer, the fact that you can single him out demonstrates that he is the fluke, certainly not the norm….. As for minor league numbers, they tell you nothing unless you know how the guy was developed. Was he a kid pushed hard like FMART was last year, was he a college kid facing HS kids? A 23 year old in Brooklyn should do better than a 19 year old in AAA ball. Even a pitcher, was he told to win or was he told to throw new pitches no matter the result because the team wants them developed? We as fans don’t know this stuff going on…. If it was all about the numbers you wouldn’t need scouts.

By: Keith

Keith — Sat, 15 Mar 2008 20:12:21 +0000

As for Church v. Pagan. Church’s minor league track record is significantly better than Pagan’s.

And I don’t understand why not one can give Church credit for having a good season last year.

Raul Ibanez was a highly touted minor leaguer in the Mariners’ system who didn’t blossom until he was a 29 year old with the Royals. He’s been very good MLB ball player for the last few years now.

Like I’ve said before, I’m not going to base my opinion of a player on what the team down in DC thought of them.

By: Keith

Keith — Sat, 15 Mar 2008 20:08:57 +0000

“Baseball is about more than numbers except of course in fantasy ball.”

This is where you’re wrong. Baseball is the one sport where numbers always have, and always will, mean a whole lot.

By: sloppy

sloppy — Sat, 15 Mar 2008 19:45:16 +0000

scoop… I never predicted numbers. All I’ll predict is that you will be disapointed and I will not be.

Keith: Milledge was a very young player, brought up too soon and put in a pennant race. Church was a much older player, playing for the DC dope’s team, where there was no pressure and no competition and he still couldn’t earn an everyday job. That tells me that Acta viewed him as a platoon player/... As for the OPS of these two guys, I’ve never compared OPS, never will…. Baseball is about more than numbers except of course in fantasy ball. OPS dopesn’t measure the key hit, or the key time to take the extra base hit or not, all the things in baseball that eyes and not stats will ever show you…. As for Pagan/Church if I got Church for nothing like I got Pagan then I could care which one I got, but I got Pagan for nothing and I didn’t get Church for nothing and Pagan can run better, field better and maybe hit better, afte all, he hasn’t got his fair chance, isn’t that what all you Church lovers tell me? You guys think that a guy didn’t get a full time job because of bad luck or something, when I think he didn’t get a full time job, especially for a losing team like the DCdopes, because he wasn’t good enough. So we’ll see. For the sake of this aged team, I hope you all are right, but I ain’t convinced by anything I’ve seen yet.
Pelfrey: I never called him Grant Roberts or compared him to Grant Roberts. I said he needs a shrink…. And after his first 2 good starts I compared him to Butch Huskey, but never to Grant Roberts who, i had forgotten but now have to be reminded of thanks to you! And I liked Butch and always had high hopes for him but he was Mr March, not Mr May or October….... Maybe Pagan is too but at least we got him for nothing.

By: scoopcoop

scoopcoop — Sat, 15 Mar 2008 15:28:49 +0000

slop, since your so hung up on Church and his mediocrity, give us your prediction for his #s this season.

Is it same as last yr, or much worse like .240/12/50?

I’m not enamored w/him but I’ll take his 07 yr which I see it being for 08.

By: Keith

Keith — Sat, 15 Mar 2008 15:25:32 +0000

sloppy, you’ve got to be kidding me. You really think Pagan is better than Church?

“besides his cherished OPS, which like all part time players is skewed because smart managers donâ€™t give guys like Church a chance to fail against those he obviously canâ€™t hit”

You mean how Willie used Milledge mostly against lefties last season?

I can’t stand how you will call Pelfrey “Grant Roberts” yet fall in love with Pagan for having a good spring. Ben Johnson had a good spring last year and did nothing all year. Alou was awful last spring and raked when he was in the lineup.

I’ll say it again, I’m reserving my judgment for Church until I watch him play in real games. And can we cut the guy a smidge of slack? He only got his brains scrambled a few weeks ago and he just had his first kid.

By: letsgometsgo

letsgometsgo — Sat, 15 Mar 2008 13:00:25 +0000

The first thing you’re gonna hear, is “its only Spring training” This applies to all players who have a lousy Spring, unless of course its players who the fan base doesn’t like so much like Delgado in which case you’ll hear, “he’s finished”.

By: sloppy

sloppy — Sat, 15 Mar 2008 12:54:39 +0000

Since so many of you are so offended whenever a utternace about Church is made about him being less than wonderful, what is it you’ve seen so far that makes you love him so far (besides his cherished OPS, which like all part time players is skewed because smart managers don’t give guys like Church a chance to fail against those he obviously can’t hit). So far I’ve seen exactly what I’ve suspected, nothing that isn’t very average, and nothing we couldn’t have gotten for free off the garbage pile…. We could’ve just gotten Pagan who fields better hits, (key word is hits) from both sides, probably doesn’t strike out 20-25% of the time, and shows some life and still had a kid to deal for something when we had a need….

By: Mike C.

Mike C. — Sat, 15 Mar 2008 03:28:26 +0000

Low nineties in wins sounds about right.

Whole lotta pitching, not much stick… and it probably wins the NL East because the rest of the NL East is really mediocre but…

That old and that thin in terms of bats, probably out quickly in the first round.

By: scoopcoop

scoopcoop — Sat, 15 Mar 2008 02:27:27 +0000

I’m going to take a poll to see who is really down on the team. The Vegas over/under is 92.5 (the highest win total for any NL team).

I believe the Phils are at 88 and Braves at 86.

Who is over and by how much? Who is under and by how much?

I am thinking 91 wins for Mets, 86 for Phils. I believe the Braves will fall very short, 81.

By: scoopcoop

scoopcoop — Sat, 15 Mar 2008 02:22:09 +0000

Mike C always w/the jab.

what will you do if this guy does well (.280/20/75)?

I guess you will find someone else to complain about eventhough it was not their decision to be a Met.

By: Mike C.

Mike C. — Sat, 15 Mar 2008 01:48:35 +0000

Discussions are already in the works to sign Mason Church to replace Alou during his down-time after surgery.

“Well,” an inside source was quoted, “he already hits lefties better than his dad does.”

By: stick

stick — Sat, 15 Mar 2008 00:45:15 +0000

Congratulation.

Now move to a hotel room so he doesn’t keep you up all night! (j/k BTW)