Bad news for Alou
-
- March
- 5
Moises Alou has a hernia and will be out from four to six weeks.
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on Wednesday, March 5th, 2008 at 7:15 pm by John Delcos.
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w/Alou don’t you mean 4-6 months? I guess FMart better be ready in 08 instead of 09.
what is next? A burst appendix, a brain tumor, hot flashes, ED? Unbelievable…..
The baseball gods are certainly out to teach Omar a lesson about having too many old guys on a team.
This is just a gruesome beginning to the spring. But I don’t want to complain too much, because I fear it’ll only get worse.
And yeah, F-Mart’s big league debut just keeps moving closer and closer.
This line up is in deep trouble. Delgado with a chronic hip and therefore who knows what power, will be forced to bat 5th. Church 6th? Pagan or Clarke 7th and Schneider…This is a very mediocre offense right now, and that’s guessing Beltran and Castillo will be ok. See you at the Summer solstace Alou, well maybe he’s out for the year. Last year 2 weeks meant 3 months, so 6 weeks should be the year. Great job re-upping this guy Minaya. What did you think? that he found the fountain of youth?
Time to get on the horn, Omar.
Can’t wait for Mike C to get the news and come on board!!!!
Better now than in the 2nd week of the season… this is really an amazing string of injuries.
JT
Honestly, Minaya needs to proceed as if Alou is not going to be a factor. Hernia surgeries are no picnic, and we have no idea how long this will take him to recover from.
Same with Duque. Just cut bait already. This team has a real shot this season.
Go out, sign Lohse to be the 5th starter and make a deal for some OF help.
Keith: Why do you think this team has a real shot?
Did this hernia suddenly happen or did he have it for a while? ghost of bad trades and ghost of bad signings. Despite his average last year this was a bad signing. Alou has totally messed up this lineup for 2 years.
Uh, because 2 weeks ago they were the prohibitive favorite in the NL.
Alou is out, but we still have Wright, Reyes, Beltran, Church, Schneider, Castillo, and Delgado.
I understand there are concerns with Beltran, Castillo, and Delgado, but until told otherwise, I assume they will be ready to go come opening day… or shortly thereafter.
Remember, the season is 162 games long, and i believe we have the best rotation in the NL.
That list may impress you because they where Mets on their chest but, after Reyes, Castillo, Wright and Beltran it is maybe adequate at best especially now that we know that Delgado is hurt forever….. Our rotation is good as long as El Pedro stays OK because there is nobody to give any help….. and the bullpen will not be any better than last year. Our hopes are on Wise and a Rule 5 draft pick now that we know what we all suspected about Sanchez. And I don’t think outside of Met fans minds we were ever the “prohibitive” favorites two weeks ago.
as a counter point to the doom and gloom (including my own comments), let’s remember the team had lots of injuries last yr and won 88 games.
and the Phils and Braves are not the Sox and Tigers.
watching the game it sounds like Angel Pagan is the man. “Best athlete in camp” says Kevin Burkhart. What better authority!!
Scoopcoop: I don’t think anyone should use last year as an example for having good feelings about this year.
I don’t think anything has happened that wasn’t expected. It just happened sooner than expected. Anypone having feelings that Delgado would bounce back and /alou would stay healthy and Sanchez would be 2006 again instantly have probably given up those feelings as reality sets in that Minaya developed a fantasy team, not a balanced baseball team.
Bad news about Alou. I agree that the Mets lineup is probably not gonna be very good at the start of the season. From among the group of Beltran, Delgado, Castillo, Schneider and Church, 3 or 4 of them will likely be back by Opening Day, but probably not all of them. Same goes for our bench.
In a way, I kinda like this…. Everybody will count us out after all the injuries. The sportwriters and analysts will say the Phillies or Braves will win the division. I wouldn’t mind being the underdog.
That said, we may need to acquire another bat—but at what position? We’ve got so many holes right now it’s hard to say.
I wonder if Omar is still shopping Sho and Sosa, now that Sanchez may not be right. He must have really liked what he saw from guys like Wise and Register. If Pelfrey’s our fifth starter and El Duque can’t pitch, who do we have besides Sosa to pitch in long relief?
Throwing away Milledge for The Nothing Brothers just looks better and better every day, no?
You’re gettin’ younger or you’re gettin’ older, GMs.
The Mets wouldn’t be in any better shape had they kept Milledge. All you’d be seeing is Milledge in RF instead of Church, which is at best a wash with Church this year. Church is only 29, so he’s not an age risk anyway.
Too bad Omar didn’t swing something for reinforcements before the news hit. Doubtful that the price is going down!
And Mike C, Church is still in his prime years, and the concussion was obviously a fluke (Milledge could have done the same thing in the same spot). Plus we got a catcher out of the deal.
I am actually kind of interested in seeing Pagan get a shot. He had enough time last year to get his feet wet, and could be primed to have a surprisingly good year.
And at least we don’t have to worry about putting a defensive replacement in for him!
And the other bright side, ALou should be fresh and rested come June, right around the time he would normally go down for 2 months.
THis will be just like an old fashioned Mets team. Strong rotation, good D, and just enough timely hitting to win.
Keith, while we disagree about steroids, I agree with you that the Mets chances are still excellent at this point. It’s all about the pitching, and they still have the best rotation in the NL. That’s hasn’t changed one iota from a few weeks ago.
With Alou a non-factor now and Delgado iffy, a lot is going to depend on Wright-Reyes-Beltran. If those 3 have good years, I think they can withstand a diminished Delgado and the loss of Alou. Most experts picked the Mets to be the class of the NL East this year, and I don’t think that will change with the news about Alou. Few expected him to play a whole year anyway.
Well, sure, we got a catcher… he definitely knows how to catch the ball. Hitting would be nice, though. Already had a catcher who could at least minimally meet the threshhold of a major league hitter on the roster at the time of the trade and the Mets discarded him.
Are you really saying that Question-Mark, Beltran… maybe and Church is better than Question-Mark, Beltran… maybe and Milledge?
When you put a question mark in the other slot, man, the importance of upside in the right fielder is all the more important.
If Alou and Beltran had both managed to stay mostly healthy, you could make an argument that all you’d need would be a dude who could hit seventh because they’d both hit so well if healthy…
Now?
Well, lets hope Pagan hits better than he plays centrefield is all a dude is saying.
Point is… the Mets now have two-and-a-half major league hitters on their ballclub. Wright, Reyes and Beltran IF he is healthy.
Alou’s down and out, Delgado’s down and out, Castillo’s down and out, The Schnide is a lock for .225 (and has leg problems!) and Church not only can’t hit lefties but is currently out with a letting-Anderson-play-defense related injury.
The pitching is gonna be outstanding but if even if your team has a collective ERA under 3.00… that means you gotta get three runs a game to win.
You pitch around Reyes and Wright and then… there’s kind of no bats on this team.
...assuming Beltran is out, of course.
Which he is right now!
Estrada-Lo Duca-Schneider were basically the same last year from an offensive standpoint. OPS+:
Schneider – 77
Estrada – 78
Lo Duca – 80
But Schneider has a better rep than both Estrada and Lo Duca from a defensive standpoint and also in working with a pitching staff. So overall he’s an upgrade. He’s also younger than Estrada and much younger than Lo Duca so he’s not as much of an age risk.
I bet that Church has a better 2008 offensively than Milledge does. So no matter who else is in the outfield, the Mets are better off with Church at least this year.
JK, it does seem we’re on the same page when it comes to on field issues. I would like to add this:
Posted March 1: An MRI on Friday revealed that Estrada (elbow) has some tendinitis and inflammation which will shut him down indefinitely, the Washington Times reports.
Yup, too bad we didn’t keep Estrada.
Without getting into the debate as to how good Church is, for those STILL complaining about this trade, I think you’re now seeing why this trade was so important.
We essentially traded Milledge’s upside (which the team obvious wasn’t all too enamored with) to get younger and solidify two starting positions: RF and C.
And we don’t know whether Church can or cannot hit lefties. Heard Keith Hernandez on the FAN the other day and he said Church never really had a shot to prove himself and now he’ll have that shot because it seems the Mets believe in him.
Had to post once more on this, mostly due to some great stuff from JK.
“Most experts picked the Mets to be the class of the NL East this year, and I don’t think that will change with the news about Alou.”
Exactly. This is what I’ve been talking about when I say “role players.” Role players are NOT bench players. They’re the guys who complement your stars. As long as Wright, Reyes, and Beltran stay on the field I like our chances. We can weather any other losses.
“It’s all about the pitching, and they still have the best rotation in the NL.”
Exactly, yet again. Last year the Padres had two awesome pitchers and less offense than we have now and they almost made the playoffs. I would submit that our rotation is better 1-5 than their rotation was last season.
“and the bullpen will not be any better than last year. Our hopes are on Wise and a Rule 5 draft pick now that we know what we all suspected about Sanchez.”
Here’s the thing, the bullpen wasn’t as terrible as we all remember. They were very good in the first half, only to falter down the stretch. One of the main culprits (Mota) is out of here, and the other (Schoenweiss) should now be adjusted to NY. Wagner, Heilman, and Feliciano all had fine seasons. Sosa looked solid out of the pen until he wore down and Wise looks good so far. As for Register, he’s been getting some positive press himself. To bring up the Padres again, Kevin Towers always builds his pens this way… cast offs with funky deliveries and converted starters. SD always seems to have a strong pen.
Wasn’t Alou saying two weeks ago he thought he could play 130 games and have 520 at bats? Also couldn’t the Braves have the best starting rotation if Smoltz, Hudson, Glavine and Hampton stay healthy (big ifs to be sure)? The Mets did have a lot of injuries last year but so did the Phillies.
About the bullpen … I expect it to be better this year if for no other reason than they got rid of Sele and Mota. Addition by subtraction. Can their replacements be any worse than those two? I don’t see how, if Sosa replaces Sele and Sanchez or Register replaces Mota. I assume Heilman and Feliciano will be about the same. And I expect Wagner to be better because of his new arsenal that includes a curve and changeup and because he may pitch less innings this year which could keep his arm fresher.
So, with the better bullpen and vastly better rotation, I think that is more than enough to compensate for Alou being out a long time. He was out a long time last year anyway.
Lineup: This is a below average lineup. Reyes, Castillo, Wright are fine, Beltran will not have a great year because he will not get pitches because there will be no fear of an injured Delgado. who is definitely # 5, followed by Church, Pagan/Clark/Chavez, and Schneider/Castro. You guys think this is a prohibited favoite lineup. It has no balance , it has devalued Chavez as a sub because he can’t bat 2 or 8, Minaya needed 2 outfielders and got one, and getting one he needed a righty not a lefty knowing Alou wouldn’t play much.
Starting Pitching.. Thin Santna awesome; Pedro who really knows. All you have is hope and awesome willpower. Maine had a great April and then was average for 5 months, OP, was up and down , and Pelfrey is doing ehat he did last March…. and there are no even mediocre back-ups.
Pen Will not be better. Wagner is a bit slower every year and his new pitches are proven?? He had a new pitch last year and when it counted most he was Billy big mouth and no results. There are a lot of names in the pen, but nobody you trust. It will be the same as last year. Use Feliciano and Heilmann and anybody who gets hot until tey burn out. \\
Plus these pitchers will have to be at their best to win virtually every night.
Boy, the injuries to your overpaid ancient players sure have your fan base in a frenzy. Can’t wait until you’re fighting the Nats for third place!!!!!! Our young stud Milledge is gonna make you rue the day you traded him inside the division for years to come…. Enjoy your long and very mediocre Summer Metsies…... And enjoy those 2 losers we gave you… I know we won’t miss those crappy players.
The Mets’ lineup may be less powerful than Philadelphia’s but I think it’s at least on par with the rest of the teams in the division. Their rotation and bullpen are the best in the division.
Pedro really knows … his own body and how he feels. He says he feels better than he has in years. Most important, he had a 2.57 ERA in just a handful of starts last year and should be even better this year being further removed from surgery. If both Maine and Ollie simply remain as they were last year, the rotation will still be the best in the NL. But there’s just as good a chance that both will improve in which case it could be the best rotation in all of baseball. Pelfrey has a year of ML experience under his belt now and should be better in 2008.
Strongly disagree. The Pen will be better than last years and I’ll bet on it. They got rid of two losers. And Wagner has already been using his new pitches in spring training and getting outs on them.
LOL, can I have some of whatever it is you’re smoking? Must be some pretty powerful stuff, DC.
Wow. Not one game played and the fan base picks us for the cellar.
JK: You are really in fantasy land if your think bums like Church didn’t get a fair chance to play here, He played more than he should have because of injuries and kids learning the ropes. He proved hios talent level is that of a 4th outfielder. We sucked and he still never earned a full time job. If you think he’s your man HAHA you lose!!! And you are blind if you ignore the way the Metsies babied Pedro giving him 6 daysa off between every start, and you are really blind if you think that big time choke Wagner will suddenly be Rivera. He’s been poison his whole career and a choker everywhere as well. when your metsies are done, please don’t send the flood waters past the NJ Turnpike.
” We sucked and he still never earned a full time job.”
I’m not basing my evaluation of a player based on how the Nats develop players. You guys have a miserable franchise. And I’m not even discussing Wagner. He’s been one of the best closers in baseball for a long time now.
“You guys think this is a prohibited favoite lineup.”
Dude, pay attention. The point was, two weeks ago we were the prohibitive favorites. Now we lose Alou and suddenly we have no chance? Come on, that’s ridiculous. As for Beltran, he’ll be fine as long as he doesn’t try to compensate for Delgado’s absence (if he is indeed absent.) Lineup protection is another big time myth.
ok. Enough bitching.
How about some thoughts on how to fix the problem. Here are some names being floated as trades:
O’s Millar, Cubs’ Matt Murton, Pittsburgh’s Xavier Nady, San Diego’s Scott Hairston, Oakland’s Emil Brown and Texas’ Nelson Cruz
I like Millar and Murton. I doubt Nady would be available. The other guys are probably no better than what we have now.
Mets available might be Show, Sosa, Smith. El duque would be if he was not hurt.
My buddy is a Tigers fan. Rumor has it the Cubs are interested in Inge for CF (yes, I was confused as welll, but apparently Inge played CF yesterday.)
Let’s get a 3 way—Inge to the Cubs, Murton to us, and we’ll send some BP help to the Tigers. My buddy said that someone with options would be preferable and he thinks they would possibly accept Smith.
I like Murton the best out of these guys. For the simple fact that he’s RH, only 25 and has a nice stat line. With some more PT, I think he could be a nice addition.
Thanks scoopcoop for trying to restore respectable fandom from insanity. This swirling is even too much for me.
The best option isn’t happening. Nady isn’t getting traded unless you give up a lot. New pres and new GM and they are actually trying to restore the franchise to respectability. They didn’t even dump Morris’ and his 10 mil contract. If you want a Pirate there would be a better chance to get Bay because the feeling is he hurts the team with his glove almost as much as he helps with his bat, but they’d probably want a lot for him also. They are also for the first time trying to sign their young guys to long term deals like the Indians do. They’re talking with Snell now and he’s their best kid on the mound.
If all Minaya would offer is Schoeneweis and Sosa, you might as well use Pagan. He grew up a Met and has worked with HoJo in the past and at least can run the ball down. A platoon with Endy would be decent in the field and give some runnoing to offset the power loss if Alou had any power left. Plus, they could both bat 2 if Castillo doesn’t heal.
And why would you trade Smith. The guy should have been in St Lucie/Binghamton last year.
I will say one thing about the invader’s comments from DC. Wagner, is good until September. He has failed in the clutch regularly. I won’t discuss his Chiurch comemnts because I don’t want to beat a guy who has a spinning head. Been there, done that, not by collision but by other means. Let his head clear for a couple weeks.
I don’t think Wags troubles late in the yr are head related. Wags runs out of gas come Septemeber. Willie needs to be use him in the right situations and someone else has to be the closer on occasion.
I like the 3-way deal, but Inge in CF does sound quite strange. I don’t like the Tiger guys that have been rumored to be trade bait.
I think all Omar has to trade is some BP arms. Even there if Mets have a couple of injuries, they are thin. So Pagan/Endy might all be what can be done at this time.
You are right. Pen is thin. Just becuase Minaya picked up bodies doesn’t make them quality. Lots to prove on any of them other than Heilmann, Feleiciano. As for Wagner I just don’t agree. He has a posion mouth and he doesn’t and hasn’t done it in the clutch anywhere, not just here. And if you remember, in the past when Willie brought somebody in to get a save he whined to the press about its his job. Remember in SF when Bradford got a save, Wagner made a fool of himself. He sucked in the clutch in 06 he vanished in the pinch last year after sucking and in Philly he single handedly gave the Astros the wild card with his bad clutch pitching.
Sloppy – It isn’t Wagner’s head that’s the problem, it’s his mouth.
Mike C., you really need to look at actual facts and not base all of your opinions on talk radio, cause that’s what it’s sounding like right now.
DC—stop smoking that stuff of yours! It’s illegal, ya know.
It is you who is in fantasy land as I never even made a remark about Church’s previous opportunities.
Well at least that’s better than what Milledge proved while he was a Met. Church’s career and 2007 OPS and OPS+ are higher than Milledge’s. Guess that makes Milledge a 5th outfielder?
No one ignored it. That was just a first stage precautionary schedule mandated by the doctors. It was temporary. You are blind if you don’t see that Pedro’s return from rotator cuff surgery has already been remarkable. Mulder also had rotator cuff surgery about the same time and has not been nearly as effective as Pedro in his return.
You have demonstrated that it is you who is hopelessly blind. Because I’m not aware of anyone having compared Wagner to Rivera. There is only one Rivera and, heck, Rivera ain’t even Rivera anymore. Despite his advancing age, Wagner is still one of the elite closers in the game. He is certainly better than the one you have in DC. Right now, he is at least the best closer in the division, if not the league.
Agreed. Wagner’s problem is his age. He’ll be 37 this summer. Willie and Peterson have to be more careful how they use him, avoiding non-save situations and 2-inning saves whenever possible.
I do not know who is available. Don’t know the players mentioned above. I would think a decent OF can be had someplace. Maybe not in spring but early.
The 2 guys Brady and Pagan – I think – have done ok so far. Yes, our lineup is weak, but if we pitch and play D we will stay competitive. If the team focuses because of the injuries it would be a good thing.
We have enough talent to win as we are. It will just be close. If Alou comes back and contributes and Delgado can get past his injury problems we have a very good chance to go far. If they don’t we can still win, it will just be close.
There are many teams in the past few years who have won with good pitching and solid team play.