Travel squad to Lakeland
-
- February
- 26
The rule is you’re supposed to take at least five major leaguers for a spring training road game. The Mets will barely make it for tomorrow’s game at Lakeland against the Tigers.
The only projected starter scheduled for the near three-hour trip is right fielder Ryan Church. Also going are Ramon Castro, Pedro Feliciano, Jorge Sosa and Mike Pelfrey.
The regulars will make the considerably shorter 20-minute drive Thursday to Jupiter for the Cardinal game.
This entry was posted
on Tuesday, February 26th, 2008 at 11:40 am by John Delcos.
You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed.
Print This Post
| 
Advertisement
Ryan Church counts as a major leaguer?
I think you are going to be surprised with Church…he plays good D and hits doubles.
another one chirps in for the steeple. chris did he play good d in right. NOPE. How do you decide he plays good d when the guy doesn’t even play where he’s being asked to play?
144 games last year. Hit .272 with a .349 OBP
hit 43 Doubles and had 3 errors. I think that is better than what we had in right last year, no?
http://www.baseball-reference.com/c/churcry01.shtml
OH NO!!! CHURCH’S METS DEBUT… STRIKE 3. HE’S OUT…
no offense chris, but we have regurgitated the steeple’s stats for months now.
and you are saying 3 errors means good d? well, 4 assists means weak arm, no? How many balls did he catch in right field chris. NONE.
OH NO!!! CHURCH’S METS DEBUT… STRIKE 3. HE’S OUT…
How many errors a fielder makes is not a good measure of his D. You need to know his range. How many fly balls does he turn into outs as compared to other fielders? That’s the important question. By the way they have a stat that meausres this. The Hardball Times website has a stat for this. They call it ‘RZR’
(http://www.hardballtimes.com/thtstats/main/index.php?view=fielding&linesToDisplay=50&orderBy=zone_rating&direction=DESC&qual_filter=1&season_filter%5B%5D=2007&league_filter%5B%5D=All&pos_filter%5B%5D=All&Submit=Submit)
for Revised Zone Rating. Let’s see how Ryan Church did last year :
They had hit at .891 which would have been 4th best among ML LFers if he’d had enough innings to qualify. He played 326 innings in CF also. That’s a pretty good indicator that Church is a good defensive OFer.
First off, did Church really fan in his first chance?
Second playing some CF is an indicator of absolutely nothing. I remember well the awful center field play of HOJO and Juan Samuel. Sticking a guy somewhere tells one that he was stuck there, thats’ all.
“OH NO!!! CHURCH’S METS DEBUT… STRIKE 3. HE’S OUT…”
Dude, come on, are you serious right now? Everyone knows pitchers are way ahead of the hitters this early.
And no, 4 assists does not show anything. Church mostly played LF last season, and LFers do not get many chances to throw runners out, since it’s not advisable to go first to third on a single to LF.
As for his D in general, everything I’ve read on Church suggests he plays solid D. Defensive stats are very dodgy, especially errors. So I am taking people like Minaya at their word that Church’s D is an improvement over Green. And let’s be serious, how hard would it be to improve the D in RF over Green?
I still don’t understand how people continue to qualify Church’s stats. He did it playing in the bigs didn’t he? And he didn’t have the luxury of facing the Nats pitching.
BTW, do any Rangers fans check out the Rangers LoHud blog? The discussion of Sather trading Montoya reminds me of the Milledge trade, haha.
HaHa: dave got sloppy and I got you Keith!!!!!
I like Church. Just a little bit of a late bloomer (or more accurately, just a little old to finally be getting his “big break”.
He is going to have a surprisinly good year (IMO of course).
“HaHa: dave got sloppy and I got you Keith!!!!!”
Haha, it’s like a tag team match.
I gave up on hockey Keith when they decided to make some losses worth more than others. It would be like you get half a win for losing in extra innings.
I can’t and won’t forgive him for not being Milledge.
Is he a mild upgrade over Green? Sure. A large pile of rocks would also be an upgrade over twilight-years Shawn Green.
But he is not functioning an upgrade over Green.
He is functioning as a downgrade from Milledge.
“He is functioning as a downgrade from Milledge.”
Based on what exactly?
Because Church is at the peak of his development as a major leaguer in terms of age and is a platoonist at best… while Milledge showed flashes of brilliance the few times he was allowed to start consistently and, barring freak injury, the sky is the limit.
C’mon, it doesn’t have to be explained.
Yes, if you could have a, like, fifty-man active roster and a platoon at every starting position, Church would well be acceptable as your lefty-hitting left-fielder.
But it’s a twenty-five man roster and he’s an incomplete player at the ceiling of his talent while Milledge was pretty good even at his floor.
“C’mon, it doesn’t have to be explained.”
it does have to be explained, because you and other Milledge supporters just throw out these conclusory statements as if they’re fact, when they are not fact. Basically, the entire Milledge argument can be summed up thusly: “He’s young. He has 5-tools. He showed flashes of brilliance (opinion), and the sky is the limit for this kid (opinion.)”
There are LOADS of players with “5-tools.” The players who become stars are the ones with one or two superlative tools. Then there are players like Griffey, Bonds, and ARod who are 5 tool players, with every tool being superlative (in their primes), which makes these kind of players legendary players.
Milledge does not have one tool in his belt I would call superlative. Yeah, he has a good arm, some pop, is fast, is solid in the OF, and hits for a decent average, but I wouldn’t say any of his talents wow me. As a contrast, I could say Gomez’ speed and arm were both superlative tools. Remember, the Twins traded us the best pitcher on the planet and did not demand Mr. “The-Sky-Is-The-Limit” be included in the deal.
And come on, flashes of brilliance? Church is a platoonist at best? What about Milledge? His platoon splits are worse than Church’s… and he’s RH.
However, here are some facts that are indisputable:
Church’s 43 doubles would have led the Mets last year.
His 15 homers would have placed him 4th.
His OPS+ of 114 would have placed him 4th as well (3rd if you don’t count Alou.)
Milledge’s Career Splits:
.246/.300/.403/.703
.281/.379/.439/.818
Church’s Career Splits:
.275/.352/.481/.833
.254/.331/.392/.723
If you’d like you could bring up the fact that the Mets never gave Milledge a chance and I could counter with the very same defense for why Church is so “old” and is just now getting his big break. The Nats jerked Church around.
The better argument would be that Milledge has a good shot at being just as good as Chruch this year. That is an argument I could stomach. Because in that case, you would be projecting, and it would be somewhat plausible. However, there is no way you can seriously make the statement that it is Church who is functioning as a downgrade from Milledge as if it is an unquestionable fact and then follow it up with “C’mon, it doesn’t have to be explained.” It just makes no sense.
To be perfectly blunt, your last two points are just dumb. No offense intended, but a 50 man roster? Hyperbole much? The platoon used to be a very well utilized strategy until it became extinct. The ‘86 Mets employed platoons, and it worked out swimmingly. In fact, the Tigers are going with a platoon in LF this season (at least it looks that way) and I bet it will provide them with fantastic production. However, the jury is still out as to whether Church is a platoon player. He deserves a shot to show whether or not he can hit LHP.
Lastly, what are you basing your comment “he’s an incomplete player” on? Is this just because, in your mind, he’s a platoon player?
Basically, I just don’t see how anyone can actually make a strong argument that Church is a downgrade from Milledge when there is no evidence at all that Milledge is capable of playing everyday, never mind for a full season. At least Church has a season of 400+ ABs under his belt where he had a successful season.
I need to work on my brevity, so I’ll sum up my feelings on this whole Church-Milledge discussion.
If you want to be pissed off they traded Milledge because you think he’ll be a star, that’s fine, be pissed off. You’re certainly entitled to think it was a bad deal if you feel Milledge is the next Willie Mays.
However, that does not mean you should bash Ryan Church just because you’re pissed Milledge was traded for him. No one who defends Church is trying to make him out to be an All Star. We’re just pointing out that he is being ripped to shreds rather unfairly just for the simple fact that he was acquired for the beloved Lastings Milledge.
Ripped to shreds…. I don’t think so Keith. Calling him a platoon player is ripping him to shreds? Saying a guy who should be at the peak of his career at 29 is ripping him to shreds? I don’t think so…
But in your plea for Church support you in there somewhere hit the nail on the head. The Mets traded a top level prospect for a guy the most ardent defender of won’t call an AllStar. Thats a bad move. Thats a Zambrano move.’’
One more point Keith. Did you want the Twins to ask the Mets to trade back for Milledge to include him in the Santana deal? As one of the Church fans says, calm down man…..
I am not anti-platoon overall.
I think that a Gotay/Easley platoon at second would’ve made a lot more sense this season than signing Louie No-Knees to a bloated four-year contract, for example.
I don’t know if Castillo has two seasons left in him, let alone four, y’know.
But… if you’re going to have a platoon, have a platoon. If there was a legitimate platoon partner on this team for Church, I would be… less concerned.
Still incredibly torqued that the Mets traded a blue-chip like Milledge for two guys who didn’t play like every-day players, even when they were on the Washington Expos, but less concerned.
Traded him because Willie and Minaya can’t wrap their heads around letting young guys break in (Christ, they almost ruined Reyes’s development for Kaz Matsui, for God’s sake) and because they’re obsessed with emulating the Yankees as an organization and stealing their headlines.
Blah.
Guy who was going to give you at least above-average production in the right corner for almost no money and you trade him for… Defensive Catcher and Platoon Left-Fielder?
Blah.
If they had picked these guys up on the waiver wire for their last two bench spots, they wouldn’t be bad guys to have…
If you need a pinch-hitter against a rightie, Church wouldn’t be bad to stash on the end of the pine. If you need sure hands behind the plate for the eighth and ninth of a close game, the Schnide is probably a nice thing to have around.
But they’re not legitimate major league everyday players and four of them aren’t worth a player like Lastings.
neither Easley nor Gotay is a #2 hitter. doing the platoon means you are juggling your lineup.
Castillo has been a very effective #2 hitter for us. Besides his defense has been better than the other two which was the reason we got him in the first place.
Concerns about his availability are noted, however i do not remember him going on the dl last year after we got him
Sloppy, when I say ripped to shreds I wasn’t necessarily referencing this very thread. Plus, I figure since we’re liberally utilizing hyperbolic license, I might as well join the fun. However, Mike C.’s view of Church (and to a much lesser extent Schneider) is totally inaccurate.
“If they had picked these guys up on the waiver wire for their last two bench spots, they wouldn’t be bad guys to have…” Seriously? Both his OPS+ and VORP show that he is an above average ball player. Certainly one worthy of a starting spot, and you want to “stash” Church on the bench?
You also undervalue Schneider. The state of catching these days isn’t pretty. The Tigers and Yanks gave big money to old catchers because the market for catching is horrendous. Look in our division, only the Braves have a decided edge in the catching department.
“Guy who was going to give you at least above-average production in the right corner for almost no money and you trade him for… Defensive Catcher and Platoon Left-Fielder?’
It’s all about perspective. You denigrate both Church and Schneider’s value without any real facts or proof to back up your assertions. You, and others, refuse to even comment on Church’s stats other than to qualify them with some weak BS counter argument along the lines of: he got his doubles because he played in RFK (uh, ok, they’ll be homers at Shea then.) However, you all make definitive statements regarding Milledge as if it’s a lock that he produces this season, or any other season for that matter.
“Did you want the Twins to ask the Mets to trade back for Milledge to include him in the Santana deal?”
Sloppy, Minaya is on record as asking Bill Smith BEFORE he dealt Milledge if it would impact a potential deal. He said it would not. It is therefore reasonable to conclude Minnesota preferred Gomez to Milledge.
I’ll repeat myself once again. Be pissed, be angry, be incensed that they traded Milledge. You should be frustrated with the way the Mets handled Kazmir and now Milledge. However, looking at the players we acquired objectively, they are solid complementary players who will fill two starting roles. We don’t need them to carry the team, we just need them to do what they did last year, and looking at their performance objectively, they were solid(obviously Church more so than Schneider.)
And I get the counter argument, I totally do. If I had the time, I would even write it all out. Milledge had a higher upside. While Church and Schneider remove much of the risk with filling those two positions, Milledge would have likely netted a larger reward (if not this year, then likely down the line.) Milledge is obviously younger and even though he didn’t set the world on fire, he held his own. I get it guys, I do. What I don’t get is calling Church and Schneider bench players for what seems to be little reason other than they were traded for Milledge.
FYI: they had nothing to do with moving Reyes for Kaz.