And your Mets’ questions are …
-
- February
- 9
What are your questions surrounding this team. Granted, Johan Santana makes the Mets better, but in the back of your mind do you ask yourself, “well, what about …. ?’’
Well, what’s that thing?
Mine is Duaner Sanchez. A healthy Sanchez makes the bullpen stronger, and that’s where my wondering begins.
This entry was posted
on Saturday, February 9th, 2008 at 9:15 am by John Delcos.
You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed.
Print This Post
| 
Advertisement
No doubt, Sanchez is at or near the top of the list of guys to have a question about.
Health questions
Pedro, El duque, Alou, Show
Consistency
Maine, OP, Reyes
Washed up?
Delgado
Every day player (or close to it)?
Church
A couple of others given last yr
Desire to win
Team leadership
Willie’s BP methods
Congrats on getting Santana. You have a poll that says are the Mets the best team in New York? You post that poll on a New York Mets blog? Lol what do you think people are gonna pick. But the fact of the matter is in till the Mets win a World Series they are not the best team in New York. Did the Mets make the playoffs next year? No, but did the Yankees? Yes they did. Were the Mets the better team in New York 2 years ago when both teams tied for the best record in baseball? No, the Yankees were. The AL has only gotten tougher this year.
Yes i’m a Yankee fan but I just wanted to say my thoughts. Good luck New York Mets this year! I hope to see a Subway series this year :).
First base! Will Carlos have a better year than last? He is so central to the offense. A bad year and we are in trouble.
Who to backup at 1b?
Why not get another starter or two off the scrap heap? P & C report in 5 days. Im sure these guys demands will come down as camp opens
How about Who will bat second for the Mets this year? That is a big question.
Questions about this team :
1. Starters: ElDuque. How many starts does he miss?
Pedro: Does he need extra rest like they gave him in Spetember? Does he stay injury free?
Who do we use as 7,8 starters if we need more than one replacement?
2. Pen: Do we have more than 4 reliable guys?
Will Wagner ever be a clutch guy in Spetember? Someone called him another Benitez. I think that fair based on last year and his finishes in Philly.
Of Course Sanchez. A year and a half gone is a long time. Throwing on sidelines doesn’t show how you do against competition?
Schoeneweis. Can we disable him for as long as Sanchez/Padilla.
Starters: 1, Delgado, Obvious concerns.
2. Castillo. Is he really fixed?
whoops wrong button
Chruch/Schneider: Can they play in NY? Will New York community let Church have peace. Do they know how to polay to win?
Who are the backup putfiedlers especially for Alou. We need 80 game sub. No place in lineup for Endy. He can’t bat 2nd or 8 th with the bum catcher and the 2B we have. He doesn’t fit anywhere else.
ToGifford: If you don’t know who will bat second the only question to you is where do you think Castillo batrs?
Pedro – is he healthy and can he pitch a full season. If he is not the Santana deal gets washed away.
Can Maine pitch effectively for a full season?
Can the new RF play?
How many games can Alou play?
There are big holes in the OF. I am surprised we did not get a RF who can give us at least 20 HR.
Is Delgado done the way many here believe?
Most importantly does this team have the focus and fire? If we do many physical inadequacies fall away. There is enuf on this team to win if we have heart. Pedro playing the full year should help with that.
Dave
Delgado. I don’t expect much from a pitcher who has been out a year and a half.
Also gotta wonder about the whole Randolph vs Minaya/Bernazzard dynamic.
I’m very surprised they haven’t found a veteran right handed power bat…. I know Lofton was mentioned and Mench is available, yestday Wilson’s name came up. they would only be bumoping Pagan or Gotay which wouldn’t be that big a deal.
Still worried about the depth of starting pitching if they don’t want to sign a fifth starter, then how about a few re-treads on minor league deals, as the season goes you need those guys, past Pelfrey is there a guy in AAA you could start … Vargas ?
How long before Alou is out for the season? How much more will Castillo and Delgado deteriorate or will they too just go completely down?
Will Schneider and Church show even bare competence against left-handed pitching or might the Mets just throw up their hands and bat the pitcher seventh against southpaws?
Will Pedro be healthy most of the year? How long before El Duque goes down for good? Will the organization have the guts to sit Horror Show down at the end of the pen and only use him when it doesn’t matter?
Will someone get Maine on some ADD drugs?
Health and depth (essentially the same thing). Will the Mets be forced to play people that they prefer be in smaller roles or in the minor leagues? If so, will their substitutes perform adequately? I believe if they stay healthy the balance of the lineup can overcome things such as Carlos Delgado’s decline or a lack of offense from the starting catcher. But if more than one starter misses significant time I just don’t see the depth.
Bumping Gotay would be a huge deal, the only thing standing between him and being a major league starter is the experience that would come with being ALLOWED to be a major league starter.
The same mistake was made with Bannister, the same mistake was made with Bell, the same mistake was made with Milledge.
When will the organization learn and… moreover… when will the Mets fanbase learn? Sometimes you have to give a guy his role and let him grow into it for him to finally show his full promise.
No, no, Castillo was a good player five years ago, before his knees went, and so everyone just assumes it can magically be five years ago. Blah.
Pagan, of course, is a never-was so bumping him down to Binghamton would be fine with me.
Not to mention: Gotay is the only man on the 25 man roster who is viable as a shortstop if Reyes goes down with a short term injury somewhere along the way.
The only reason anyone would say that Easley is a shortstop is because they want to give up on Gotay for some reason.
The pitching depth has Pelfrey as the sixth option and Sosa as the seventh. There’s only so much you can do for signing a guy to languish as your eighth option down in AAA. I wouldn’t worry too much about it.
If Vargas wants to ever see the majors again, dude should start converting himself into a middle reliever the moment pitchers and catchers report.
If Reyes goes down then you call up Gotay, Gotay hit .190 over the second half of the season. In the role he will be in for the next four years, utility infielder he struggled to make the adjustment. He then hit .200 in the winter league until he pulled it out for the last 50 at bats and brought it up to a respectable level. They are cheap up grades out their that can hit a home run off the bench, cold for this years team. Gotay could stay in the minors, he only has a 1 1/2 years aof service plenty of options. Reyes goes down mid game Easley plays and the next day they call in Gotay. I don’t think you’ll see Gotay hitting anywhere near .300 as a pinch hitter and we can afford another Woody .223 off the bench. If i’m wrong great…..
The 2007 season left lingering questions about a number of players still (or recently acquired) on the Mets.
1.)Pedro Martinez (Is he ready for a full 2008 campaign?)
2.)Duaner Sanchez (Ditto)
3.)Matt Wise (His problems developed after hitting a batter—Is he ready to attack the 2008 season. Is he mentally tough enough?
4.) Carlos Delgado has disappointed since coming over from Florida! Can he come back to respectability .280, 30HR, 100RBI or has he become a .250 hitter pitchers would intentionally walk the batter ahead of him just to pitch to Delgado?
5&6) Moises Alou and Orlando Hernandez—how many games are they going to miss?
7.) Who is the 25th man on the roster?
1.) Probably.
2.) Maybe.
3.) Wise can’t be as bad as Mota Show or Sele… so I don’t put him on the list of questions.
4.) Delgado’s career was over last season, he just doesn’t know it yet.
5.) About half the season each.
6.) Sadly, Scott Schoeneweis.
how come no one has asked about willie? i view him as a major weakness
Yeah but that’s not a question.
Willie’s 1895-style of managing is not in question, he’s an abysmally terrible strategic manager.
He just is. A very good manager of player chemistry and probably a good coach but… a housecat with a 12-sided die could handle the bullpen and pinch-hitting choices better than he can.
If you’re the type to make the argument that ultimately handling team chemistry and individual coaching is more important over the long haul of the season than exes and ohs… you can make that arguement.
But in terms of sheer chess moves, the dude makes one want to throw around the term “gross incompetence” in a manner that would otherwise be overkill.
None of these things are in question.
oooo, Mike. the foremost expert on managing in the big leagues, lets all step out of your way, this man’s opinion is gold. After all, you were a manager right? You’ve done it before. You know what you’re talking about so much that big league teams are calling you this instant. Truly amazing to have you on board this blog, a true pleasure to be speaking to a guy who will have a job in the majors as a manager because he knows so much about it.
Questions? Who could possibly have quesions?
Heart, drive, and LUCK?!?
Of course I could never be a major league baseball manager, I’ve never played an organized game of baseball in my life. There’s no way that I could coach players on the fundamentals or win the respect and leadership of life-long jocks… both because I’ve never played the game in any kind of a way meaningful to anyone making money off it.
However, c’mon, the exes and ohs of player substitution over the course of a game or a series have nothing to do with any of that.
You could well argue that that part of managing is IMPROVED by distance from the clubhouse as opposed to lessened.
Randolph picks his line-ups and substitutions on a combination of who was good five years ago, who he likes personally and irrational hunches.
I am not saying that I am any great baseball wizard to say that I would be a better strategic manager than Willie.
You would definitely be, as well, metsfan. Anyone paying reasonably close attention to the team would be.
Again: if you wanna argue that Willie’s skills as a manager of personalities and as a coach of player development outweigh in-game strategy over a long season? I’ll listen. There are probably theories on that.
But the dude is completely irrational on the subject of in-game strategy. C’mon now. Don’t argue just to argue.
The sky is blue, man, are you looking to play Devil’s Advocate on that, too?
I would prefer Delgado not play at all.
My question is, Willie will you tell your players not to turn it on and off and just keep it on!
Otherwise i dont care, also dont coddle an old time player. If you take a good player and sit him. then take an old timer and sit him when he is stinking as well.
play him 8th!
To the Original: Here is the letter PETA sent to Pedro Martinez. Read the paragraph describing how the cock fight works. Aren’t you proud of yourself for defending and supporting such a noble sport? You may go to the PETA web site and take the course as well.
“Dear Pedro,
As many of PETA’s 1.8 million members and supporters are baseball fans, we at were disheartened to learn of a video showing you and Hall of Famer Juan Marichal taking part in a cockfight as honorary soltadores. While cockfighting may still be legal in the Dominican Republic, we would hope that you, as a role model and future Hall of Famer yourself, would set a better example for baseball fans—particularly children—everywhere.
You may have grown up watching the gallos, but take a step back and look at what actually goes on in the cockfighting ring. Roosters used in cockfights are given weapons and drugs in this cruel, lethal blood sport. They are given steroids and amphetamines to make them stronger, more aggressive killing machines. Their spurs are painfully sawed off and replaced with razor-sharp blades that cut through flesh and bone. After they are released into the ring by the soltadores, they are forced to fight to the death. Usually, even the injuries that the “winner” sustains are so severe that he dies as well. These roosters, like all animals, have the ability to feel pain and fear and suffer.
Cockfighting sets a terrible example for your fans, particularly children. Cockfights are notorious hotbeds of gambling and illegal drugs. As you are well aware, Major League Baseball discourages gambling of any kind by its players, and certainly they will not take kindly to you exposing your young fans to a ritual that is so steeped in cruelty.
In light of this, PETA is calling on you to publicly apologize to your fans for participating in such a cruel and barbaric activity. We would like to invite you to take part in our Developing Empathy for Animals training seminar, which Michael Vick voluntarily attended after he was charged with dogfighting. Please take this opportunity to send a strong message to your fans that cruelty to animals has no place in baseball”
Further to the Original You are correct when you discuss the horrible treatment given to calves for veal. However, at least the veal is used for food. The cockfighting serves no purpose other than sick entertainment, gambling and drug use.
To the guy who said Delgado has been useless since coming to the Mets.
In season one he let the other Carlos relax and have a monster season. He also put up some pretty impressive numbers himself. In the postseason he was great. In fact no one else on the team hit as well as he.
Season 2 – very disappointing. We shall see about season 3.
RE: backup shortstop
I´d rather trust the position to Easley if he´s on the team:
Career totals
Easley 1077 innings at SS, 549 total chances, 15 E, 191G, 116 GS
Gotay 20 innings at SS, 9 Total chances
How many of those innings were for Easley… any time in the recent past? He’s old and he’s got injury miles on top of old.
Five years ago doesn’t count. This would be a great rule to set up in baseball discussions, what a player did five years ago doesn’t count in terms of what he’ll do in the current or next season.
MAYBE three years ago begins to count but even that’s stretching it.
What have you been able to accomplish recently?
Easley’s a solid bench bat and would probably hold up as the hitting-lefties half of a second-base platoon with Gotay… but the dude does not have it in his body to play short on anything other than an emergency basis.
He should be considered a shortstop only in the manner that if On The Schnide and Castro were injured in the same game, Delgado would be considered the third-string catcher.
As for Delgado? Yes, he was a great player a long time ago. Two seasons ago, he was maddening streaky. One season ago, he sucked three limes at once.
A long time ago, Castillo and On The Schnide were defensive wizards, now they’re simply somewhat above-average at best.
So much of this team’s starting positional line-up is built around The Was, not The Is or The Will-Be.
I can deal with being about The Is and not The Will-Be but, oh Lord, there’s a lot of The Was in that line-up.
Get busy living or… et cetera.
dave in spain: Too much time in the sun my friend if you think your stats can prove Easley can play SS. Too old, coming off major broken leg injury, too slow even before it. Get real…..
It’s not a diss on Easley, I have no doubt that he’s still serviceable as a back-up second-baseman who can play first and maybe a little corner outfield in a pinch.
And with Castillo, Delgado and Alou all due to go down for major chunks of the season… that’s a good thing.
But between injury and age, the athleticism just isn’t there to play short anymore.
Here’s hoping that two out of the above three don’t go down for any extended overlapping time, else we end up stuck with the corpse of Jose Valentin’s career getting extended playing time somewhere.
1. Can Moises play without skipping entire months due to injury?
2. Can Wagner still be the uber closer?
Duaner by far. If he is capable of being the pitcher he was in 2006 then this pen is solid. If not, you have the same problems as last year. And of course like a few people mentioned already, left field and right field are concerns.
Oh yeah, Delgado too. The offense needs a return to form from him in order to be a powerhouse. If he continues to decline then the offense IMO is ordinary.
correct Mike C. I wasn’t dissing Easley, just recognizing his current, not past abilities. He’s a fine PH and since Alou covers no ground can play left just as well as Alou.
I think everyone needs to chill a bit on Church and Schneider vs. lefties. Church’s stats weren’t THAT bad last year; let’s see what he can do. And I doubt Schneider sees much time vs. lefties with Castro around.
I also agree with Mike C. on his assessment of Gotay. The kid has a nice approach at the plate and great hands. I think he could turn into a solid MLB hitter, if given the chance.
I’ll be honest, I don’t have many questions about the MLB roster. Sure, I have concerns about the health of Alou and El Duque and whether or not Delgado can bounce back, but everyone else I am fairly confident in.
My main question going into the season is about depth, namely pitching depth. Who, other than Pelfrey, at AAA can be called upon to start in the case of an injury, a double header, or whatever? Vargas? Bostick? I’m not sure about these guys. Unless players like Vinyard, Niese, and Rustich can pull a Joba/Kennedy and shoot up through the minors, I think Minaya may have to go shopping at the flea market during the spring.
If they hit they will see the dissing stop. If they don’t I’m sure the Shea un-faithful know how to boo them as much as they want to. A fan base that booed David Wright, certainly can and will boo these guys if they don’t do their jobs very well.
“A fan base that booed David Wright, certainly can and will boo these guys if they don’t do their jobs very well.”
See, I just don’t get this attitude. It’s like you all want those two to fail.
Why was there dissing to begin with? They were brought in here as role players. They’re better than the guys they’re replacing. And the Twins wanted nothing to do with the guy who was traded for him.
We don’t want them to fail.. We just don’t assinine fantasies about them being perennial all stars when they have gone thru the prime of their athletic lives being average at best. did Shea fans boo Wright? Of course they did last April. And they were not brought in as role players. Being the everyday Right Fielder is not a role its a key offensive position. Being the number 1 catcher is a key position. Easley and Anderson and Wiuse are roile players. There wasn’t dissing. There was extreme unhappiness with a trade. Is that not allowable, and there was lying from the Met FO about personality when they rid themselves of one player whose actions they don’t like and replace him with a religios bigot.
Good sign by Mets in Armas. Much better to sign a bum to a minor league deal then to sign a bum like Livan or Lohse to a multi year deal.
After seeing Beltran’s comments in JD’s article about his knees not being 100%, I’ll add him to my list of concerns.
keith and all the other church/schneider lovers: how come your stats are perfect and anyone who doesn’t think they are great because of the stats they see are dissers, or bad met fans:
stats like church never getting 500 ABs on lousy teams, facts like he didn’t even play right field last year, fact like the pitchers having an ERA almost a run a game higher for the Nats when Schneider was catching vice Flores. All the stats that say they aren’t good. They are just as real as church’s doubles total that is ballyhooed. And why is he a great right fielder when he doesn’t play it, he only had a few assists last year and only a few steals indicating he has no speed and no arm strength. But we have to salute his doubles and salute Schneiders phanton defense? You guys all said Milledge didn’t prove anything, well neither did these 2 guys.
Scoop: Beltran is NEVER at 100% and he never fails to tell all who will listen it seems. And in his article yesterday, JD mentioned that a world series ring won’t erase the sting from last year. IMO, maybe for the players, but not for the fans. The Mets winning the World Series would totally erase the 2007 collapse, in my mind at least.
I think the debate about Church/Schneider for Milledge should be shelved. I am now of the opinion to wait until the season is played before we judge the trade. Who knows, Church could be the next Paul O’Neill which would be pretty darn good.
Steve, “Who knows, Church could be the next Paul O’Neill which would be pretty darn good.”
That is a very tall order. I just hope he does what he did last yr, 40D, 15HR, 75RBI. That would be good enough from the 7 hole.
Of course you want the debate shelved, since you can’t answer the other guy’s findings. Just razzing you a bit, Obviously the debate is useless but we certainly can’t debate Santana’s ability so what the heck. And you better figure on this so called right fielder to be in 6 hole at least half the season, unless you are Mike Huckabee and blieeve in big time miracles like Alou not getting hurt. Alou not getting hurt would be bigger miracle than Huckabee getting the
R nomination.
As for Mike C. the fact that you claim never to have made a bigoted remark is an indictment of yourself. We don’t like it, we shouldn’t condone it, but I don’t think any of us have never made one. And the other guy was right about your comment and I took it as a direct insult upon me and my community.
Omar: Unless Steve C or Mike C are the same person, stop giving the poor guy grief. It was Steve C who made the comment, not Mike.
Mike C
Please explain to me how 2 years ago is a long time ago.
I give you Delgado’s stats from 2 years ago.
144 games 38 hr 114 rbi 265 avg
In the postseason he had
10 games 4 hr 11 rbi 351 avg
obviously he is a terrible player who a long time ago put up good numbers.
Actually the O’Neill comparison is I think a valid one. At the age of 29 he batted for the Reds .246 with 14 homers and 66 RBI and came with the tag as well of not being able to hit lefties all that well either. Granted he had many more major league at bats than Church did, but in the previous years he wasn’t really that special…a .270 hitter or so with an o.k. OBP and an o.k. slg % which compares to Church’s. So , i’m hoping for the best. Church will also be surrounded with a better lineup which I think is going to help him tremendously.
Add Livan Hernandez to the list of players we traded to the Twins for Johan.
steve,
“Actually the O’Neill comparison is I think a valid one.”
I was talking more about O’Neill’s grit not the numbers.
Scoop: It’s strictly about the numbers IMO. As far as his grit goes, I don’t know..i’ve never paid attention to whether or not Church likes to break water coolers with his bat. :-) Again, best case scenario is he turns into Paul O’Neill. Of course he could also turn into Benny Agbayani…and that wouldn’t be too good. lol
Sloppy, I will address your post now.
“We don’t want them to fail.. We just don’t assinine fantasies about them being perennial all stars”
Who is trying to say either of these players are going to be perpetual all stars? I don’t recall anyone doing so. What I do recall is myself explicitly saying he is going to be a solid RF and 7 hitter. If anything is asinine it’s everyone constantly ragging on him and making him out to be no better than Ricky Ledee.
“when they have gone thru the prime of their athletic lives being average at best.”
Being league average is way more valuable than you and many others realize.
“did Shea fans boo Wright? Of course they did last April.”
This is a completely irrelevant to anything.
“And they were not brought in as role players. Being the everyday Right Fielder is not a role its a key offensive position. Being the number 1 catcher is a key position. Easley and Anderson and Wiuse are roile players.”
This could simply be a matter of semantics, but those guys are bench players. Church, Schneider, and Castillo are role players. Our core guys are Wright, Reyes, Beltran, Delgado, and Alou (when healthy). The other starters are expected to play good defense and contribute at the plate. The same way Scott Brosius was a role player. The same way Dustin Pedroia and Jacob Ellsbury are role players. Teams are built around their big players and you complement them with players who have a variety of skills. To me, you’re a role player if losing you doesn’t cripple a team, or at least make the fan base a bit nervous at the prospect of fielding a team without you. Losing Wright, Reyes, or Beltran would be a disaster. Delgado and Alou, not so much, but it’s fairly well settled that we need those guys. The others: replaceable. This does not mean they are not valuable though, because most likely you are replacing the “average” Church with a replacement level player.
“There wasn’t dissing. There was extreme unhappiness with a trade. Is that not allowable, and there was lying from the Met FO about personality when they rid themselves of one player whose actions they don’t like and replace him with a religios bigot.”
First, try not to trip over your jump to conclusions mat. Why is it completely out of the realm of possibility that Minaya just wasn’t high on Milledge as a ballplayer? Is this so difficult to even TRY to wrap your head around? Bill Smith wanted nothing to do with Milledge. He could have had him, a more established MLB ready player, for Johan, and he said he wasn’t a deal breaker. So for all of you who totally overvalue Milledge and moan about how we almost got Oswalt/Manny for him (ps: we were NEVER getting either for just Milledge), let’s remember that fact. Minnesota could have had Milledge in a PACKAGE of prospects for Johan and passed.
Now, a disclaimer. I personally like Lastings. I was also somewhat underwhelmed by the trade. However, I do not think we should take it out on Church/Schneider. Nor do I think we should put any credence into the Nats assessment of Church either.
letsgometsgo… your turn:
“keith and all the other church/schneider lovers: how come your stats are perfect and anyone who doesn’t think they are great because of the stats they see are dissers, or bad met fans:”
Again, I have made it abundantly clear that I do not foresee MVP awards and yearly all star appearances for Church. I just think he’s going to be a solid everyday RF. I also never said anyone was a bad Mets fan, but I just don’t understand the nasty, negative tone whenever people discuss Schneider and specifically, Church. You don’t have to love him or buy his jersey, but people calling him a scrub or an offensive black hole are A) not giving him a fair chance and B) completely ignoring his stats.
“stats like church never getting 500 ABs on lousy teams, facts like he didn’t even play right field last year,”
I’m not convinced. The Blue Jays, Mets, and Indians all let Jeff Kent go. The Twins cut David Ortiz. The Mets traded away Jason Bay. The Padres gave up on Xavier Nady. My point is that much better run teams than the Nationals have mishandled good players. IMO, the fact that Church never had 500 ABs (and really, come on, he had 470 last season) is not dispositive of anything. BTW, that’s not really a “stat”. 470 ABs is a nice sample size (Shawn Green had 446 ABs last season) and Church had a nice stat line last year.
“fact like the pitchers having an ERA almost a run a game higher for the Nats when Schneider was catching vice Flores.”
This one’s easy. Small sample size. Schneider started way more games than Flores, so the true terrible nature of the Nats pitchers was able to show itself.
“All the stats that say they aren’t good. They are just as real as church’s doubles total that is ballyhooed.”
Yup, all those crucial stats like number of ABs, Church not getting a fair shake on a terribly run organization (ps: not even a stat), and comparing staff era Schneider v. Flores. Look at Church’s stat line from last season. He’s good! He had more doubles than DWright. His OPS ranked 13th among all NL OF last season. Again, he may not be an all star, but he’s a good player.
“And why is he a great right fielder when he doesn’t play it, he only had a few assists last year and only a few steals indicating he has no speed and no arm strength.”
I never called him a great RF, Minaya did. From what I’ve heard, he’s a good athlete, so I put 2+2 together and figured he would be better than Green, who was a statue in RF last year. And low assist totals do not = no arm strength. How many assists does Vlad Guerrero rack up? I would tell you not a lot, because no one runs on guys with good arms. So he may or may not have a good arm, but having a low OF assist total doesn’t prove anything. Same with him having low SB #’s. Acta is on record as saying he doesn’t run a whole lot. On a team like the Mets, where Shawn Green stole his fair share of bases, I’m sure Church will run more. In fact, Minaya mentioned this in an interview.
“But we have to salute his doubles and salute Schneiders phanton defense? You guys all said Milledge didn’t prove anything, well neither did these 2 guys.”
You don’t have to salute anything. My whole point is that those who keep whining about this trade don’t want to give these guys a shot. Schneider I can understand the gripes, but even in his case… he’s going to be virtually splitting time with Castro. So I am expecting solid production from the C as a whole. As for Church, while there are some red flags (his age, only one full season), but he had a nice season last year and from the few times I saw him, he looked like a solid ballplayer.
Look, I liked Milledge as much as a lot of you guys do. To a man, I would have liked to seen the Mets give him a shot (especially since FMart was the other guy we were keeping and he’s LH himself, Milledge and him would have been a nice tag team). However, I am not going to rip apart Church and Schneider because I’m annoyed the Mets dealt Milledge. Lastly, be honest, Church has proven more than Milledge. He just has. Doesn’t mean Church ends up better than him over the next 6-8 years, but he has shown he can play in the bigs.
Keith You give me an awful lot to respond and I will respond to some as I don;t know all the things you speak of so:
Jeff Kent: The BlueJays traded a kid and another oif you remember for a pennant chance. They got Daqvid Cone didn’t they. Not quite a Blue Jay give up. The Mets made a bad trade for Carlos Baerga. A bad trade but not a Kent give up.
The Schneider stats: You blow them away with no rebuttal other than “small sample size” Well, no answer because you didn’t have an answer. Well how about his worserning number throwing guys out stealing. I guess its not a decade trand so its bogus too.
Church: We’ve told over and over that he ’s a great defensive improvement in right over Green/Milledge. Well, based on his not playing there? He played mostly left/// Why?
Nady” Cameron for Nady was a Nady give up??? I don’t think so, You are revising history.
Assists: Again you are trying to do revisionist history. In part time play in the outfield Guerero had 5, mor than Church, but the difference is that Vlad has a rep and doesn’t get run on. Since none of has seen Church in right he has few assists because????
The trade: I wouldn’t care who we traded to get these two guys. They are barely average guys who have played with no pressure on a lousy DC club, they have to prove they can handle the NY press and Shea boo birds, they have to prove they can play when it matters, so why get excited about them. If we are chasing average, I say go young. If you are chasing stars give away the young. That’s why nobody knocks the Santana trade, because it was right, and this trade wasn’t.
As for bad moves like Ortiz, it doesn’t prove Church will excel. Ortiz hit 20 HRs and the Twins released him. (Why, money?? beats me). If the Mets got 15 HR Church for nothing I’d be very happy with the move. But they didn’t.
Anyway if these guys are good they will make us all forget the complaints. We’ll see. Just like Oliie did.
“Assists: Again you are trying to do revisionist history. In part time play in the outfield Guerero had 5, mor than Church, but the difference is that Vlad has a rep and doesn’t get run on. Since none of has seen Church in right he has few assists because????”
Because Church played LF. You don’t usually attempt to go 1st to 3rd on a LF. Church is an upgrade over Green, our regular RF for most of the season. I don’t include Milledge in the calculus because the person Church is replacing is Green.
All of those trade examples I gave were not meant to be an equal comparison. They were meant to show that some players develop at a later stage than others. Guys like Nady, Paul O’Neill, Kent, Bay, Ortiz, etc., all blossomed a tad later than most. Even guys like Utley and Howard didn’t make it to the bigs until they were past 25.
The Schneider rebuttal is certainly valid. You can’t say “well, the Nats ERA was lower when Flores was behind the plate” when Schneider played significantly more innings than he did. As for his declining numbers re: throwing runners out: he’s still far superior in this area and overall defensively than our last two catchers.
And Church has played RF in his career, just not last year because Bowden traded for his boy Kearns. Church is a good defender and a good athlete. He will definitely be an improvement in RF over Green.
“They are barely average guys who have played with no pressure on a lousy DC club, they have to prove they can handle the NY press and Shea boo birds, they have to prove they can play when it matters, so why get excited about them. If we are chasing average, I say go young. If you are chasing stars give away the young. That’s why nobody knocks the Santana trade, because it was right, and this trade wasn’t.”
Schneider may be barley average (if that), however Church is definitely above average. He would have led the Mets in doubles last year and ranked 13th among NL OF in OPS. Further, do not knock “league average players.” They are more valuable than many of you think.
Of course they have to prove they can play here. My point is that no one is giving them the opportunity. In some way, I feel like many Met “fans” would like to see them fail and Milledge thrive just to be able to say “I told you so.”
Lastly, how can you say assign a value judgment of right or wrong on a trade as if it is a universally accepted truth? While 90% of Mets fans would say the Johan trade was the “right” move, I bet the other %10 could make a compelling argument as to why it was not the “right” move.
Anyway, this is how I view the Mets offseason moves.
Johan > Glavine
Church > Green
Schneider/Castro > LoDuca
Will we eventually rue the day we dealt Milledge in division? It’s possible. But I certainly won’t be sweating it if we have a productive OF of Fmart – Beltran – Church for the next 5 years.