They'll be talking today …
-
- January
- 30
The starting point will be $126 million, which is what Barry Zito got last winter from the Giants. I can’t imagine Johan Santana, a superior and younger pitcher, getting less.
I confess, I didn’t want this deal because of the price in prospects. But, they kept Mike Pelfrey and Fernando Martinez, which makes it easier to swallow. We don’t know how the players the Mets gave up will develop, but the scouting reports aren’t saying there’s a “can’t miss” superstar in the bunch.
Maybe they are better than the Yankees, maybe not. But, the real issue is I don’t think there’s any question they are the team to beat in the NL East, and that’s the important thing.
This entry was posted
on Wednesday, January 30th, 2008 at 10:15 am by John Delcos.
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JD – Just said that on the last thread.
I must say after finally pulling the trigger on the deal we have been talking about since October I do not understand the bashing of JD, Omar, etc.
We are now the team to beat. We have issues which we have beaten to death in the past months, but the pitching and the D by themselves should be enuf to carry us.
We have Pelfrey and Sosa to pick up the slack in case there are injuries or performance issues. I expect Pelfrey to go to AAA so he can get regular work unless he cannot be sent down. In a pinch there is always Vargas or the other rejects.
If the catcher is as good as they say we have a solid C/SS/2B thing going here with Beltran in center, Endy off the bench and an upgrade in right.
We also have power in Wright/Alou/Delgado with speed up front. It is not the most devestating lineup and is weak on the back end, but it is still dangerous.
This will be a good year.
Congratulations to Omar for doing what we expected/demanded him to do. This is one of the better trades in our history. Hopefully it brings the same impact as getting Gary Carter those many years ago.
Dave
Twins, Yanks and Phillies fans should stop crying.
Carl Polhad has the highest net worth of any owner in the game. He just signed Cuddyer and Morneau long term to go along with Joe Mauer. He offered 20 mil per year for 4 years. Santana wanted 6.
Enough crying about the Twins being a small market team. They just act like one and use that as an excuse for a stingy owner…
Ironically, Fred Wilpon has been mocked as "Fred Coupon" for years for presumably being cheap (although Carlos Beltran, Billy Wagner and Pedro Martinez would beg to differ!). Wilpon's opening of the pockebook moves him far away from the "coupon" tag. Also, he really does no longer look like a small-market team playing in the shadow of the Yankees.
Kudos to Omar for sticking to his guns, and kudos in advance to the Wilpons for doing the deal-
nice post dave. I was with you until you mentioned Vargas. Oh well 90 some percent. I agree with you that Delcos doesn't deserve the bashing he has gotten. He has always had his opinions here and has kept his newpaper articles neutral. If anybody wants a blog that is owned by the Mets then go to metsblog where SNY bought them out to stifle discussion and debate. Hopefully, Delcos won't sell out like the other place did.
To Wally Backman: You have called the small market crap exactly for what it is. CRAP. The Twins owner has more money than the Wilpons, they have a new park that they blackmailed the state of Minnesota for which will open in 2010. The small market line. Look at small markets. Cleveland and Pittsburgh. One is a contender most years, one never is. It is the ownership, not the size. I remember the White Sox claiming they were a small market in the 90s. HAHA Chicage a small market!
I don't know what crap JD's getting…I think good natured ribbing is more like it. Like when I called him a Yankee fan who wanted to keep the Mets down…Good natured fun! He is allowed his opinion..after all it's his blog. And when he is dead wrong there is nothing wrong with anyone calling him out on it either.
Yes and kudos to Wally Backman..the small market thing is so 90's. With revenue sharing the way it is and baseball making more money than it ever has, the small market thing is a poor excuse.
Steve whichever.. I think some of the posts were out and out hostile to JD. Some people think this is a place which you march in unison behind the Met front office or you are negative or bad. I don't think calling him a Yankee fan is part of that. Any organization that suffers the collapse or choke job that this team went through deserves criticism until they win a flag. I hope the posters keep the heat on until there is a clinching on the Shea mound.
Mets 2007
Glavine/El Duque/Ollie/Maine/Pelfrey
Mets 2008
Santana/Pedro/Maine/Ollie/El Duque
And we were not sure what we would get from pitchers #3-#5 last year.
What a difference a year makes. I would not be surprised if we have 4 15 game winners and about 10 from the old old man.
Dave
John, the price tag to me is not very relevant. I hope my logic isn't too confusing but
1. Pitchers of this caliber very rarely hit the open market. Th Peavys, C. Zambranos etc. are more and more getting re-signed by their own teams, leaving trade and development and posting from Japan the ways to develop an ace.
2. The price for any premium pitching s going up with the yearly increases in revenue enjoyed by the sport (up to 6 Billion from 5.5 billion in 2006). This was illustrated by two instances—Barry Zito and Dice K. Zito was on a pretty steep descent and yet commanded at 126 mil deal. Bad deal or not, the union uses it as a bench mark. That's why McGlinchy got so mad at the benson deal in the winter before 2005, claiming other teams had to follow suit. Dice-K, commanded a toal package close to Zito's despite having more wear on his arm than Zito and no MLB experience let alone 2 Cy Youngs.
3. NY dollars aren't the same as mid-market dollars. The Mets are constantly top-5 in payroll. As the Wilpons pay off the financing from the doubleday payout and citifield financing, they will be in further compliance with the 60-40 rule—a rule that gets little play but drives a ot of payroll considerations. With citifield a guaranteed source of luxury box revenue, signage revenue and naming rights revenue, a 125 commitment to Santana for the Mets of 2008-2013 may only have 60% the bearing on payroll it would have in the years 2002-2007.
4. Santana is going to get the same bump as a power pitcher that Pedro got coming to the NL in 2005 when he just owned the 8th and 9th place hitters. His stats, traslated to shea last year, adjsuted for league and park were a 2.50 ERA and 236 K. He was worth 7 more wins on his own for our team—statistically—in an off year by his standards. The difference between an 88 and 95 win team is well worth the 12 mil per year premium of Santana over someone like Silva or Meche. The trickle down effect to the rotation and bullpen—he's just a special player worth unique considerations. Zito wasn't. Bedard isn't. Santana (younger than Bedard, BTW) absolutely is.
Just is terms of feeling gratified as a fan—The Mets are sending a great message to fans here. Pedro and Beltran were acquired as talent, true, but also as part of a "rebranding" that was a business plan. The Santana investment comes off a 3.8 million attendance mark. It's clear the Mets will break 3 mil again this year w/o Johan and will sell out citifield next year without him as well. The Mets are making a move here much like the Gary Carter move. It's a very Doubleday/Cashen move—assuming it's completed—it's Wilpon giving the go ahead like Nelson did, and Omar keeping Fernando and Pelfrey—who I believe has more upside than Mulvey or Humber—acting as Cashen.
Just a bold stroke by ownership signaling the intention to win, and a great job by omar in not letting the fear of losing out on the Jon Garlands of the world deter him.
Omar has really set out 5 times to get his man, Pedro, Beltran, Delgado, Wagner, Johan.
He's gotten him 4 times—and in the 5th instance, he made him come here after all (Delgado).
I hope his willingness to stand firm on Fernando finally shows people that the Colon trade was only so aggressive on Montreal because he felt there was no real sense in protecting prospects for a team slated for contraction. I think it's time for Omar haters to stop with that one.
Dave: And the best part is that they can start Pelfrey in the minors. After looking at him in the past two years I have concluded that the Mets did him a serious disservice by not letting him get more seasoning in the minors and if they left him alone he might be really ready to compete for a job on the major league level.
Justin, a great post
"Just a bold stroke by ownership signaling the intention to win, "
I agree as long as the do the same next yr when they will need to replace at least one of the two: Delgado and Alou. and probably have to sign or replace OP.
My issue has been that Wilpons in past would acquire talent when team was down b/c revenues were down.
Now it can be said they have made a turn of the corner to think about how consistently winning on the field means winning in the pocket.
I hope they keep it up.
scoopcoop,
If the wilpons are truly turning the corner than I want them to aggressively go after mark teixeira who will become a free agent next year, we will need a first basemen, might as well in get one of the better first basemen in baseball.
yup scoop, but just like you can only beat the teams on your schedule, you can only tackle the offseason you are in. So, right now, I'm extremely pleased with the Carter-esque acquisition, and will wait till next year to see what we see. Lot of money comes off the books and a lot of money comes in with the increased luxury suites. Santana sure should help SNY ratings and the rate card for advertisers go up. The perfect move for this offseason. That's good by me.
Hi Mr D: Remember me? Do you know what number Johan Santana will wear so I can get his jersey for Donovan and my Dad. Last night was the first time D and D talked about the Mets since the season ended!!!
How about my Big Blue guys!!!!!! The guys here told me they wouldn't be very good. I think they did OK didn't they!
Jess,
Big Blue grew up late in the year. Early in the year they were not a playoff team. Go Gints.
To Jess (RE: Santana number): Of course I remember you. I would guess Santana would keep the same number he had in Minnesota, No. 57.-JD