The Mets' 25-man roster: Pretty well set
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- January
- 30
Assuming no more trades or free-agent signings between now and spring training, there isn’t much that needs to be done to complete the Mets’ 25-man roster.
Here’s how I see it right now.
STARTING PITCHERS
1. Johan Santana
2. Pedro Martinez
3. John Maine
4. Oliver Perez
5. Orlando Hernandez or Mike Pelfrey. As they did last year, they could go with four starters to start the season because of the off days and go with an extra position player.
BULLPEN
6. Billy Wagner
7. Jorge Sosa
8. Aaron Heilman
9. Pedro Feliciano
10. Scott Schoeneweis
11. Matt Wise
12. OPEN: Duaner Sanchez makes it if he’s healthy. In the wake of the Santana deal, Hernandez could be in the pen as a long reliever.
CATCHERS
13. Brian Schneider
14. Ramon Castro
INFIELDERS
15. Carlos Delgado
16. Luis Castillo
17. Jose Reyes
18. David Wright
19. Damion Easley
20. Marlon Anderson
OUTFIELDERS
21. Moises Alou
22. Carlos Beltran
23. Ryan Church
24. Endy Chavez
25. Angel Pagan
Anybody see it differently?
This entry was posted
on Wednesday, January 30th, 2008 at 2:24 pm by John Delcos.
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I think you pretty much have it nailed. Although I would love to see the Mets sign Kevin Mench and replace Pagan with him.
if they go with a strict five man roto to start the year—you give pedro the honor of opening day in Florida, but Johan gets the home opener.
Nice thing about pedro as 1—he gets 6 days between starts 1 and 2 and 5 days between next 2.
not that I'm geeked up.
Petey loves the Miami mound. The King returns for the opener, and the fans get Johan, Maine and Ollie against the Phils.
Bring it baby!
I'm somewhat partial to the analysis of Keith Law (and not because we share the same first name), so I would like to see the Mets make an under the radar move and pick up Bobby Kielty. Here's what Law says about Kielty(ranked 42) in his article on the top 50 free agents(link: http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/hotstove07/insider/columns/story?columnist=law_keith&id=3107210):
"Kielty is a strict platoon player. He can't hit right-handed pitchers but murders lefties, hitting .296/.379/.503 against them in his career. Kielty hit the biggest homer of his life off a lefty in Game 4 of the 2007 World Series. He's also a plus defensive corner outfielder who can fill in as a center fielder in a pinch, and while he doesn't hit righties, he'll make them work and take the occasional walk. Planned platoons are rare today, but they make a lot of economic sense, and pairing Kielty with a left-handed outfielder could make a cheap and very productive platoon in a corner outfield spot."
The way I see it, this covers Minaya in two ways. If Church really struggles against lefties, then you have a really nice platoon for RF. If Church plays well, but then Alou goes down, you can platoon Kielty with Endy in LF. I like the fact that he is a guy who has played this role on a contender before (Boston last year) and that he could play CF in a pinch, meaning no more Marlon Anderson in CF.
Otherwise, pending anymore moves, I think JD nailed it. Although I would like to raise two more points/questions:
One: What happens to Gotay? I feel really bad for this kid. I felt like we played some of our best ball with him in the lineup and he's kind of getting shafted. Let's hope he improved his D so he improves his trade value or his value as a role player.
Two: What about this guy Register? Doesn't he have to be on the roster or else we lose him? What are the chances of something like this happening: Duaner comes back healthy. Sosa, Wise, and Register all impress. This makes Heilman expendable so they deal him to someone like Detroit (who needs relief pitching) for Brandon Inge. Inge could play both corner OF spots, 3B, 1B, and even be our third catcher. This would give us a good RH bat to pair with Church, a guy to play everyday for Alou if/when he gets hurt, and he would allow Willie to use Castro as a pinch hitter on days he doesn't start. He also provides some insurance for 2009 should Martinez not be ready for LF or if we can't sign a Teixeira for 1B.
I think Ruben Gotay could beat out Angel Pagan. In that scenario Damian Easley would play both INF and OF.
I would not place El Duque in the bullpen. There is too much wear and tear, especially since Willy goes to his bullpen every single game. The wear and tear comes from having to warm up in the bullpen almost every game. They may also warm up multiple times in a single game, El Duque would break down faster in this scenario. Pelfrey may be better equipped to go to the bullpen, similar to how the traveling all star team used Joba last year.
I don't think they can put Pelfrey in the bullpen. I'm not even sure Sosa will be in the bullpen for that matter.
Now that they've traded Humber and Mulvey, that leaves Pelfrey as our only legit starter in AAA (unless you want to count Vargas and Bostick). Plus, they're going to want Pelfrey to assume a rotation spot in 2009, so I don't see him moving to the pen unless he stinks it up as a starter.
I personally liked Sosa in the pen last year. I think his slider/fastball combination has a chance to turn him into a pretty solid setup man. However, Pedro and Duque are injury risks, and unless Minaya brings in some arms for AAA (think Josh Towers, Mike Maroth, etc) then I could see them sticking Sosa in AAA again along with Pelfrey. The only other possibility is some of our lower tier pitchers pulling a joba/kennedy and shooting up through the system to take Humber and Mulvey's spots.
Hehe, anyone else itching for Spring Training to get here?
If Pelfrey doesn't make #5 starter with this team then he should pitch in New Orleans.
I think John is pretty much on the money. I am wondering if Valentin, a Willie favorite, somehow makes the roster if he is ready and performs well in Spring Training. Pagan in that case may be the odd man out.
I agree mostly with the 25 man roster.
Exceptions being
El Duque is the number 5 starter. Pelfrey will start in New Orleans and be the first starting pitcher callup. Hernandez makes too much money not to be included.
Duaner Sanchez does not have a question mark after his name. The bullpen is set. Depending on how much the Met brass like Schoeneweis, I could see a possible Heilman and Schoeneweis for Brian Fuentes and a minor leaguer.
I have not selected the 25th man. Angel Pagan, Ruben Gotay, Jose Valentin, and Anderson Hernandez have a shot to make the roster. If Omar still has an itchy finger, he could sign a right handed firstbaseman/outfielder
I think Pelfrey would be better served going to NO and working on his off speed command and his mental attitude (be nasty!!).
All reports indicate Sanchez is healthy, in great shape and throwing the ball w/good velocity (93-96).
Pagan is the one guy who I see as one the fence. I agree that Valentin would make the team if he is healthy.
I think Gotay gets the shaft and goes to NO.
Petey might love the Fl mound but he hates the dugout or wherever it was that he fell on his hip that led to the spiral of injuries in 06.
El Duqe will only be in the BP if the sign his half brother.
No way Mets trade Heilman and Show.
Anderson hernandez might not even be in the organization come ST.
He can't hit at all.
Any chance Joe Smith makes the team?
I think Gotay should be on the roster. Not sure what he gains by being in AAA. He can work on D but that is it. He needs to see and play against the majors. He did well last year.
Pelf should be in AAA to work on his approach to game, in game situations and just dominate that level. He can work more on his secondary pitches and at some point will be brought up when the old guys wear down.
Once again before someone else brings it up Ollie needs to be signed to an extension before the break.
Does Gotay or Pagan have options? If one does and one doesn't that will decide. But the other will be called up to replace Alou relatively quickly.
Personally I hope Pelfrey wins the starter job and sticks, and El Duque is long man 6th starter. But if Sanchez is back Pelf is in New Orleans until El Duque gets hurt.
Register, will be offered back to TB. He'll be lucky to be ahead of Smith in the pecking order.
Delcos—You're missing a back-up shortstop. I think Gotay has to be included here, most likely in place of Pagan.
If we have 5 OF do we need Easley at Shea? I would rather have Gotay on the bench and Easley/Anderson choice for the other spot.
Tough decisions but good ones.
Hi John –
I'm not sure how I see it. I remember another NY team who signed famous, expensive pitchers and one of them smacked around a cameraman on the sidewalks of New York before even putting on a uniform. The other pitcher took all the money and was never seen nor heard from again – apparently he had some physical 'issues'.
No, Johnson and Pavano were not Mets, but I'm very wary of these long term contracts and big bucks for any pitchers.
And, although I love and adore Pedro, I'm not sure that he's going to perform regularly in the rotation either.
However, it's baseball which is better than seeing the first robin of Spring.
We got lucky with Marlon Anderson last year. I don't think he should be on the team this year. They can do better than him for a reserve player.
Benny: I can see that so they have Easley as a swingman.
Annie,
Randy Johnson was 41 in his first full season with the Yanks. His poor showing had more to do with his declining ability than the NY media.
And Carl Pavano just wasn't that good to begin with. He parlayed one great season/post season with the Fish into a huge contract. Yanks made the same mistake with Jaret Wright.
Johan Santana is hands down the best pitcher in baseball. He has 2 Cy Youngs and is only going to be 29 next season. This is the kind of guy you lock up long term. While I am with you in being wary of long term deals for pitchers, Santana is a guy you do it for.
Gotay should make the team ahead of Marlon. Why? Because he's a better baseball player and the Mets are a baseball team.
I agree Taylor. If the Mets are going to go with the extra pitcher again this season they need more dynamic players like Gotay, Easley, and Valentin, and less one dimensional guys like Anderson and Franco.
I know Marlon can play a bunch of positions, but he doesn't really play them well. He has a terrible arm as well.
Kieth: Please never mention the name Josh Towers ever again.
Towers will make you wish you had Lawrence on the team.
On Easley, I think he starts the season on the DL. That was a nasty injury he had and I think he will need at least April in
Florida for rehab.
Towers would be a better option than Brian Lawrence. Come on. Not saying he's awesome or anything, but he isn't that bad. He pitched in a brutal division in a brutal league. Plus, the Blue Jays really weren't fair to him last season. He was second on the team in ERA when they sent him down.
I know a guy who blogs for the Jays and he said he could see Towers catching on with an NL team and being a serviceable 5th starter. He is exactly the kind of guy you sign and stash at AAA. We can't trade for Bedard and Peavy and send them to NO in case of injury.
Easley will platoon with Church in RF. Gotay will be a backup INF. Pagan will be in New Orleans. That's the plan.
Josh Towers already signed with the Rockies.
Keith: I would rather take a run at Freddy Garcia and let him
rehab as long as he needs. If Garcia were ready in late August he would be the best gamble of all the FA pitchers available.
Steve: tks for the update
Keith –
Santana was 15-13 last year with an ERA of 3.33. I'm not impressed by this. Also there are rumors of arm trouble – he's almost 30. Pitchers are the most fragile of all baseball players – do you really think this is such a great deal?
Frankly, if we're going for older pitchers, I'd rather have Ron Darling.
Scott, so would I. So would anybody, I presume. My general point was those are the kind of pitchers to sign (not necessarily Towers and Maroth specifically) with the hope Peterson could work with them and turn them into serviceable guys.
Joel Pineiro is an example of the Cardinals doing this.
Annie: The pessimism is killing me! Yes, he had a bad month last year. I guarantee you he'll have at least one bad month for the Mets. It's a great deal chill out. He's the best freakin pitcher in baseball. Plus coming to a new league is going to be an additional huge help. He'll get a full physical. Don't worry.
Annie: he will be 29 in March in what universe is this old.
This is the prime of a pitchers career. Also none of the guys the Mets traded were going to make an impact on the 2008 team.
Relax and enjoy. We now have the best pitcher in baseball.
Annie, Johan's record is worthless in evaluating his performance.
3.33 ERA, in an off year. This is pretty impressive, considering the AL central fields some pretty good hitting teams. He also had to contend with the rest of the AL as well.
Also, his peripherals indicate that his "poor" won-loss and ERA are just do to randomness. Other stuff like fly ball rate, strikeout rate, etc all seem to be right around his career averages. I'm not going to post a detailed Johan analysis… but look around the web: Baseball Prospectus' unfiltered blog has one, Amazin Avenue has another, Keith Law on espn.com posts an analysis. Pretty much everyone says this is a coup for us.
In this day and age of proper training and nutrition, pitchers have shown the ability to pitch into their 40s. Guys like Maddux, Glavine, Schilling, Johnson, Clemens, Moyer, Wells, etc. Further. Johan is not simply a power pitcher. He has a devastating changeup and good control. He seems to project to age similar to Pedro. So even if he loses velocity, which would only likely happen if he suffered a similar arm injury, he would still be able to rely on his control and changeup. However, (knock on wood), Johan is thicker than Pedro and seems to rely on his lower half more than torque for his velocity… this bodes well for him staying healthy.
And I hate the idea of giving a pitcher so many years, but unless you can develop your own studs, this is the price you have to pay for an ace. Out of all the teams in baseball, the Mets are one of the best equipped to take this risk.
The Santana trade is probably the greatest in Mets history. Even before I ever heard about him being mentioned in trades to the Mets, Johan has always been my favorite pitcher even as a Mets fan. I have heard about rumors that the Mets may be at least involved in talk with a trade for Bedard. Does anyone know anything about this? If the Mets ended up with both Santana and Bedard I think they would be considered the best team in baseballeven at the expense of all their prospects.
Please also read minorleagueball.com
John Sickels thinks the Mets did very well.
I am not sure what it says about the Twins farm system when all 4 of the guys the Mets traded make the Twins top 10 but that is what Sickels says.
W-L record is the stupidest way to measure a pitcher's performance. A pitcher is only, at most, half of that equation. He has absolutely no control over how many runs his team scores (even in the NL pitchers don't contribute significantly to offense) and his fielders account for 5% or so of the runs allowed. It is just silly to credit or blame that guy for the outcome and even sillier to judge a pitcher's performance on that silly system of credit/blame.
But there is a very good solution. You can look directly at what the pitcher did. In Santana's case he had the lowest WHIP in the AL. WHIP is a better predictor of future W-L record than is past W-L record and its a better predictor by a mile. And guess what? Santana had the BEST WHIP IN THE AL. Other stats like K/9, BB/9 etc also show Johan on the very short list of pitchers in the majors. Just forget about his W-L record because it doesn't mean diddly!!
Gotay won't be on the team b/c his defense is poor.
The veterans Easley and Marlon will be.
Mets will live w/Easley at SS for a 3-6 games. You don't bring Gotay along just for that.
Easley and Marlon have more pop and can play more positions.
Pagan is the question. Valentin is possible b/c he also has pop.
All three are Willie guys. Pagan and Gotay are not.
Not sure but I believe Easely and Marlon have guaranteed contracts. Which also makes it likely they make the team.
ANNIE-IF $$$ IS SUCH A HANGUP, GO BECOME A PIRATES FAN. THERE YOU CAN WATCH BAD MANAGEMENT BRING IN BAD PLAYERS BUT AT LEAST THEY DON'T MAKE ANY $$$.
Gotay's fate was sealed when Omar signed Castillo for 4 yrs.
I didn't like that move but it means Gotay is in the minors or traded for some pitching.
Of course getting Castillo may have had a small influence on Johan since they are suppose to be buddies.
But getting Castillo may have had a small influence on Santana b/c he is suppose to be buddies w/Castillo.
And despite what you might hear otherwise, Santana's first choice was the Mets. Tori Hunter confirm that today.
Good discussion here on this thread. Maybe I've missed something, but who on the roster as proposed by Mr. Delcos can spell Delgado at first? Don't know much of anything about Inge, but he sounds like an interesting player. Though Castro doesn't really hit for average, I'd love to see him get an occasional chance to pinch hit when he's not starting.
Easley and Valentin can hit the long ball, but aside from Castro we don't have any real power threats on the bench. It's another reason why I'd prefer to have Gotay there. Somebody used the word 'dynamic' earlier. I think that's why so many people like him. Milledge was like that too. Not always consistent, but they both have that energy—like at any minute they could explode!
I have another question. Whta exactly does Pagan give us. He seems to have matured since he was in the Mets farm system. I've seen different stats listed for him for last season. What surprised me was the HRs. I take it he's a plus defender with speed, but can he hit?
W-L is even less important now that these guys never finish games.
Easley can spell Delgado at 1st.
Mets have guys except for Church and Schiender who are gonna play everyday. Willie likes bench guys who can move around to fill in just for a day or two. So you are gonna have vets. No Gotays.
Easley, Marlon will play first, 2b and OF. Easley will play ss and 3b if needed. They've done it before.
Willie might not have much influence on most of the roster, but I think for the role players he gets more of Omar's ear.
GOTAY HAD HIS CHANCE. His next one only comes for the Mets if someone gets hurt or he moves on.
Pagan was acquired b/c Omar had in his mind the Santana trade. Just like a few of the other moves he made.
He has got to fill the MiL w/somebody or have a 5th OF.
This really isn't something to make a big deal about, but you mention Gotay having his chance… didn't he do quite well with this chance? I sure like his swing.
The first few posts had the right idea about either Mench or Kielty as a good signing. I think I might prefer Kielty because he can actually catch the ball. The Mets may want to take a shot at having Church play every day, but that's no sure thing, and Alou can't be counted on for more than 100 games, if that. Pagan is not much more than a poor man's Endy Chavez—I wouldn't be surprised if Omar picked him up in case he had to include Endy in a trade for Santana or somebody else. We need one more (RH) OF with a little pop.
Annie: You can be as pessimistic as tyou like. You have a good point. There's been a bunch of pitchers signed as FAs that haven't panned out. But this was a trade, this is a true star not past his prime, like many of them were. The biggest question with him will be how he adjusts to NYC. Will he be like Pedro who fits in from day one or will he be like Beltran who maybe is still adjusting. He probably never got booed in Minnesota and since this fandom booed David Wright last April, he's gonna get booed here unless he's almost perfect.
Close, but Pagan won't make it.
You forgot Gotay. And unless you think Marlon can handle it, there is no back up SS on the team, and maybe 3B either.
For a dose of Met reality read George Vecsey's column in the Times. As he says the Mets "are still on probation."
Pagan may be a poor man's Endy Chavez, but Chavez has been on the DL a lot lately and was injured again while playing winter ball. He's insurance. But the kid did hit some homeruns in limited duty with the Cubs last season. Has Endy ever hit 9 HRs in a single season?
If it turns out that Church does have trouble against lefties, who do we platoon him with? Easley? Anderson? I like those guys just fine as fill-ins, but not much as 1/2 of a platoon.
Easley is the backup ss, 3b. And he won't be needed much b/c Wright and Reyes will play 155+.
If Pagan is not needed and valentin isn't ready, it is remotely possible that all the Gotay fans will get there wish.
I'm not saying he didn't fair well w/the bat, but he is bad on the base paths and in the field.
Willie doesn't like those things. And per my earlier post, Willie does seem to have so say w/the bench.
No way Mets face half their games against lefties. There aren't that many lefties.
And Mets will only face alot of lefties if Delgado struggles.
Hope he doesn't. If so, Church won't be an issue.
Just checked… Pagan had a .439 SLG through 71 games with the Cubs. Not too shabby. Endy's unlikely to do that in 2008, I'd say.
two small roster points for me.
1) Wise signed a split deal, so he could start the year in AAA to keep Register or someone else. So that spot is as open as the Dauner spot, imo.
2) Pagan has an option year left while Gotay does not, so I would see Gotay on the bench and Pagan in AAA unless they feel Easley cant play RF a few times a month…
As for the rotation to start the year, I think they need to do with Santana, Pedro, Perez and Maine in that order. This would allow Santana to go in Atlanta and again against Philly in the 3rd home game. Perez would get the home opener. This gets two lefties against the Phils, and gets Santana in thier against the two division rivals in starts 2 & 3. Which is more important than getting Duque more innings, imo. He can stay in St. Lucie and get one more tune up and start againt the Brewers in series #4.
Chris in Japan: The Mets gave Endy a 2 year deal a couple weeks ago. No way is Pagan beating him out. There's only 1 open spot because Endy, Easley, Anderson and Castro are guaranteed.
Scoopcoop. The Mets will have problem with lefties as soon as Alou goes down. There may not be half, but as the season goes on, if there's a noted diffeence in offense then teams will find ways to bring in as many as they can. ther short call upl like the Dodgers did in 06 will make the # significant. It won't be half but it will be at least 50-60 games. And they'll be buried with lefties out of the pen.
"Wise signed a split deal, so he could start the year in AAA to keep Register or someone else. So that spot is as open as the Dauner spot, imo."
I believe the deal Wise signed gives him most of the $ if he does not make the team out of ST. I would seem unlikely he would not be on the team.
Sanchez is healthy.
I don't know stats on Mets against lefties when Alou was out but they faired much better in 07 than in 06. Anyone have this?
After thinking about it, i'm not sure the Mets will have to carry 12 pitchers to start the season. I would think 11 is the magic number. So let's say Pelfrey starts the year in the minors and Duaner is healthy, my 11 would be. Johan/Pedro/Perez/Maine/ElDuque/Sosa/Show/Wise/Sanchez/Heilman/Wagner. The only way I see Smith having a shot is if Wise or Sosa completely stink up Spring training. Getting Johan who pitches 6 innings at the very least every start is going to give the pen such a relief. And I bet Pedro will give at least 6 most of the time too. It's amazing what a true Ace in your rotation does for an entire ptiching staff.
Just to add: Smith may have a shot if Duaner is not healthy enough to start the season.
With the Pagan option left, he is doomed to start the year in AAA.
If the Mets keep or lose Register based on a return to TB it kind of negates the attempt to win now. He's never gonna excel and you don't even know if TB would want him back. If they pass he stays in Met system. And why the concern anyway. Chances are that Joe Smith has strengthened his arm over the Winter, will start in AAA where he will not have to be used too much and when he has his speed and movement we know he can be effective. He's a much stronger alternative for a call up or 7 th man in the pen than Register ever will be.
If Santana only pitches 6 every 5 days we should not be paying him 24 mil a year for 6 years.
It should be a minimum of 7 innings. Hopefully both Ollie and Maine are stronger and can regularly do 7+ innings.
The only reason the pen is so important these days is because your starters suck. There are very few real pitchers anymore. They are all pretenders who make 10+ mil a year. It is kinda like our current entertainers. They pretend to sing and play when in reality it is all studio. Next up is it will be a holograph so they won't dance either.
Dave: I think you're misunderstanding me. Santana is pretty much a guarantee of 6 innings per start. Maybe I should have said 6 innings plus. I definitely do not see Maine and Perez capable of 7 IP plus due to their penchant for high pitch counts almost every game, especially Ollie.
I remember the other day when the news came out that the mets landed santana and I commented that "I'm not giddy until santana is sign, sealed and deliver" and someone, I forgot who responded, "why I was being negative" and i responded back that "i"m not negative it's just that we still have to sign him. WELL!!!!!,
There are reports today saying that the mets and Santana are far apart in negotiations and it is possible the deal could fall through. Now you know why i said, what I said the other day. I know the mets and wilpon!!!!
Here is the link about the negotiations, now you can understand why i wasn't giddy when the news came out the other day.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3224116
Steve, how could you forget about Feliciano? He's as much of a lock as anyone.
scoopcoop, you are right its a $0.75/$1.2 split. I dont see him spending the whole year in AAA, but I could see him starting there due to the roster crunch and the attempt to keep someone like Register. The thing is, the only time the Mets can send Wise to AAA is in ST, otherwise they would have to DFA him and lose him. But he will most likely be a part of the pen for most of the season.
Nate: You are absolutely correct! No room then for Smith at all.
Tom G: Maybe this will put your fears aside:
http://www.twincities.com/dailydose/ci_8123937?nclick_check=1
I believe them a hole heckuva lot more than Jayson Stark
Interesting note about Ruddy Lugo from CNNSI:
Still, the 27-year-old right-hander has been effective for extended stretches. He pitched in 64 games for Tampa Bay in 2006, going 2-4 with a 3.81 ERA and allowing only four homers in 85 innings. He held opponents to a .210 batting average during his final 24 appearances last year, finishing 4-0 with a 2.86 ERA.
The thing with Gotay is that the Mets will be giving him away if they dont keep him on the roster. He has been out of options since 2006 and some lesser team will be happy to have him as a bench IF, but yet he doesnt have trade value to bring anything in return. I'll be pleasantly surprised if Omar can get anything for him.
When the difference in performance is marginal I prefer to keep as many players as possible. Pagan, Valentin, and others can go to AAA while its unlikely Gotay can sneak through waivers. So I keep them all by making Gotay the 25th man. If his lefty hitting doesnt help the team in April then I re-assess the situation and look to Valentin or Pagan.
the best I can tell, Lugo still has an option year left. So he will basically replace Burgos as a decent call up option.
They could start the year with Smith, Lugo, and Muniz at AAA and available to be shuttled up and down. Which is great depth. I would guess that after Pelfrey the Mets would look to Sosa as a fill in starter candidate. Hopefully he stretches out fast if they need him. Otherwise its Bostick and… well no one.
Dont be surprised when someone snatches Vargas away from the Mets. Not that he will be missed, but someone will take a chance when he gets DFA. One less backup plan, so they need some veterans scrap heap types in AAA.
steve,
I'm watching Mike and the Mad dog and there sources are saying the same thing that stark is saying, this other guy that you directed me to is only stating what santana wants. The mets don't want to go more than 5 years and they want to pay less than 150mil. I'm telling you, what is going to happen is santana and his agent will walk away and MARK MY WORDS he will go back to the twins and they will trade him to the yanhkees or red sox, what a joke.
Mike and the MadDog are the biggest anti-Met guys you want to know. They have no sources whatsoever. All they get it what they read. Their source I guarantee you is the article that Stark wrote. Francessa for the past month insisted that he spoke with Omar who said Reyes HAD to be part of the deal, and he probably would have said the same thing on Tuesday. Russo said on Tuesday that Santana is probably disappointed that he is going to the Mets when it's pretty much known that the Mets is where he wanted to play in the first place. Don't worry about it. It's a contract negotiation which I don't think anyone really expected to end until tomorrow anyway.
Quote from Torri Hunter:
“The Mets are not only getting a Cy Young winner, but an absolute bulldog who’s great in the clubhouse. He’s going to dominate that league. They’re going to absolutely love him in New York…I know he’s happy, too, because he really wanted to go to the Mets. He’s always wanted to swing the wood. He can hit…So I don’t know who’s happier, Johan, the Mets, or everyone in the American League because they don’t have to face him anymore.”
steve,
I hear you, I do agree with you about fatso and skinny, they are idiots. I guess I'm still in shock with the Mets major collapse of last year that I’ve lost allot of faith with the Mets organization.
No kidding Tomg – this will be HUGE brownie points with the Mets mgmt and fans everywhere. However, and maybe John D can shed some light on this, is not to expect any press conference, official announcement or anything done prior to the weekend. I'm sure there might be an agreement in principle, just trying to gget everyone's hopes up or more press on the deal…keep in mind, one of the biggest sporting events of the year if not THE biggest (um, Super bowl for those keeping track at home, LOL) is going on and a NY team is playing a NE team. I doubt we hear anything till next Wed, earliest…Thursday, b/c that's a slow news day traditionally. Till then, every single one of my blonde hairs turns a little grayer…LOL
TomG: Are you kidding? If this falls thru I'm joining Red Sox Nation!!! :-)
after all of the misinformation over the last 2 months about the trade situation, why do you think any of these guys have ti right now?
I would be real surprised at this point if a deal doesn't get done. Santana will probably give a little, Omar will give a lot, and they will figure out a way to make Santana stinking rich, massage his ego, and still keep the Mets solvent!
Actually Stick, Metsblog had the updates daily and got it right as far as who was going to be traded. Anyway from the guy who allegedly "broke" the story, Bob Nightengale from the USA Today said today:
"The Mets, according to a high-ranking official privy to the negotiations, are close to agreeing to a five- or six-year contract extension with Santana that will average about $21.5 million a year. The two sides have until 5 p.m. ET Friday to reach an agreement."
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/2008-01-31-santanaupdate-mlb_N.htm
24 hours after Minaya's biggest deal and the board is silent. Is everyone worried the Wilpon's will blow the contract or are we quiet because the only thing left to debate is the 25th man on the roster and the last reliever, if that even?
So baseball technical experts: What happens at 5 tomorrow? Do they have to have signed a deal, worked out the fundamentals? If not done can there be more time or is the deadline a baseball rule? Most importantly, do I have to rethink again changing my first name?
Omar: Probably because we're the only ones who are aware that this board exists! But there have been around 20 posts today, not too shabby even though I had like 10 of them. LOL. I enjoy posting here. Even though I love Metsblog the posting there gets too crazy.
In case you haven't figured it out.
Fat Man and Puppy dog (aka Mike and Mad dog) like to rile up Met fans by saying anything negative they can. So you have to try and ignore them.
Last story on wires says Mets and Santana are 20MM apart. Mets offer is 142.5 and Santana wants 160.
Even Fred Wilpon knows that fans will storm Shea and knock it to the ground if this doesn't work out!
But I'm still a little worried.
I guess no one plays poker here.
The Mets like any organization is trying to control costs. The employee like any employee wants to maximize their earnings. The player has the upper hand here.
Santana: 7 years @ $30Million a year plus a $15Million signing bonus.
Omar: You are a great player. One of the best in the game, that is a lot of money. How do you feel about 5 years @ $15 Million a year and a $3 Million signing bonus?
Santana: I was hoping that you consider I have 4 years at over 200 innings a year and more than a strikeout an inning, one shutout a year..
and it goes on. He will get signed and it will be more than Zito and probably less than ARod.
"probably less than ARod."
Even I can't agree w/10 yrs for a pitcher @27MM per
My guess, 6 years 138M. They'll give him a signing bonus of 7M to bring this year's salary up to around 20M.
I'm with a lot of these people… there's no viable back-up shortstop on that list. Gotta drop the entirely-forgettable Pagan and keep Gotay.
I imagine that El Duque starts as the #5 pitcher and when he is inevitably injured, Pelfrey takes over the role. Sosa as the longman unless there's some kind of cascade of injuries that forces him to start or short-relieve.
It is just such a shame that Church and Schneider are on that roster, as the presumed starters but… there we are. Stuck with the terrible two-headed Los Expos albatross and that's all there is.
I certainly wouldn't call Anderson an infielder or an outfielder as… he's a great pinch-hitter but he's a butcher anywhere in the field. I'd call him OTHER.
What else… one hopes that they can somehow dump Schoeneweis on somebody else… but I s'pose its a longshot hope.
Outta Smith, Sanchez and Padilla… one hopes that two of 'em are ready in April and someone will lock Show up somewhere and lose the key.
That's a pretty good summary of my opinion on that list.
Sign Kevin Mench for back up RH OF (Bobby Kielty if you can't get Mench)
Send A. Pagan to New Orleans along with M. Pelfrey, R. Gotay, A. Anderson, J. Valentin & R. Casanova
As far as the bullpen goes, sounds good. Send J. Smith, R. Lugo, B. Stokes, J. Padilla, R. Rincon & A. Burgos to New Orleans as well.
Sign Freddy Garcia for back up in case 1 or 2 startes goes dow. He won't be ready until May any way.
interesting write up steve c. I don't think Padilla will be ML ready in Spring if ever. There's nothing wrong with one pinch hitter on the team. Marlon is great at it.
If no movre moves are made, and Pagan doesn't make team, which i agree with you with, he will be up day Alou goes down so there is a righty bat who can catch the ball in left field. If he makes the team it means that church is worse than we thought and needs to be platooned from day one.
I also would like to see the mets get another starter either Kyle losch or livan hernadez this way they can place El Duke in the bull pen as a long man and it needed they can use El Duke as a spot starter. God knows the mets need depth in starting and relief pitching because of what happen last year.
nothin like reaching so low after reaching so high!
Stunting Pelfrey's development even more by getting Lohse ain't worth it, especially when you consider that the only time El Duque would allow himself to be put in the bullpen would be the playoffs.
Look, the Mets have already made the mistake of yoyoing Bell and Bannister and Milledge and then throwing them away because they couldn't develop completely under such ridiculous conditions and…
Then have to watch them finally blossom in organizations that don't expect prospects to instantly become all stars once being on the 25 man roster.
Lets not do this to Pelfrey and Gotay too, huh?
Mike C: I think the Mets have already stunted Pelfrey's growth by rushing him to the majors. If he lights up spring training its one thing, but I really think he can use a full year in the minors. Given that the Mets might lose Pedro next year and figure El Duque is a goner after this year too, Lohse is good insurance to have for the next few years. I don't think that would stunt his growth.
you can make the case either way with Pelfrey.
1) the Mets can afford to send him to AAA and let him get as much time down there as he can to work and develop in a stress free environment
2) with the other four starters the Mets can afford to play through the lumps of a developing 5th starter and some guys just need to take a few years of faving big league hitters to develop.
without Mulvey and Humber around anymore there is almost a 100% chance that Pelfrey will be in the 2009 rotation all year (potentially as a #3 starter), so whatever they think is best to get him ready for that job, they will do.