Mets Chat Room: The Santana Edition
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- January
- 29
Well, it looks like the Mets landed their ace. I didn’t think they had it in them. And, part of me still wonders if they might not have given up too much. I’d been on record as being against this because I didn’t want them to ravage their farm system.
That they are keeping Mike Pelfrey and Fernando Martinez is important and lessens my concern. They really aren’t giving up a “can’t miss,” guy, but then we might not know that for another five years or so.
In Pelfrey, they have a pitcher to plug in next year for Pedro Martinez or Orlando Hernandez, and Martinez might be ready to take over for Moises Alou.
So, do you like it or not?
This entry was posted
on Tuesday, January 29th, 2008 at 11:24 pm by John Delcos.
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Like it? Like it? I love it! Assuming they lock him in for 5+ years, this is right up there with the best trades in franchise history.
Is it true Omar was pulled over on the LIE and arrested for robbery?
If they hadn't thrown Milledge away for less-than-nothing, this would be a grand slam of a trade.
Giving up Gomez would've hurt a lot less if the Mets had Milledge at the major league level AND F-Mart in two years.
As it is, we've got Beltran in the outfield and maybe eighty games of Alou and… not a whole lot else.
Church is everything bad about Shawn Green except with better wheels, Endy's a great 4th OF who's exposed as a starter, Marlon Anderson can't field, Easley's not an outfielder and I don't even think Angel Pagan's mom has heard of Angel Pagan.
Guerra and Mulvey were too young to know what they were ever gonna be and Pelfrey ain't gonna be Santana even a fullstep past his ceiling so… more than fair.
And even Gomez, for all his high ceiling, he has just as low of a floor unless his plate discipline really comes together.
If there was only one OF slot between us and the possible rise of the F-Mart, it'd be a grand slam.
As it is, giving up Gomez is a bit of robbing from Positional Depth Peter to pay Starting Rotation Paul.
We'll see. We'll call it a ground-rule double. A gigantic success tempered by an almost-as-gigantic mistake.
This team is better with Santana, of course.
But this team would've been locked in for the NL East if they didn't have Church and Schneider's bats stinking up the room, if instead they stuck with Estrada and Milledge's at-least solid-supporting-bats.
As it is, there's a whole lot of pitching growth but a huge step backward offensively to counter.
We'll see how it plays out, if the balance is still positive.
Yes, great trade. The Mets pulled off this trade, yet managed to keep Fernando Martinez, Ryan Church, Aaron Heilman, Joe Smith and Mike Pelfrey—all people who were mentioned at some point or another in rumors. That can't be overlooked.
Likewise, if the Mets had signed Johan Santana in the open market, they would have lost a draft pick.
Oh yeah, and the Mets have two first rounders this Summer.
Great move all around.
~~ Is it true Omar was pulled over on the LIE and arrested for robbery? ~~
YES it's true!!! and HE IS GUILTY!!! :-)
I'm glad that I don't have to repeat myself over and over again, because WE'VE GOT JOHAN!!! :-)
BTW… now we've got Johan, we can try to find another 1 or 2 starters to be insurance, in case Pedro or El Duque show their ages again…
offer a minor league contract to Lawrence? Oh, wait, he's gone already! how about Chan Ho? neh… he's with Dodgers now… Lima? he's in Korea now… hehehe
seriously, we do need some starters in 3A in case of injuries…
ps: did you guys know that Lima and Seo will play for the same team in Korea this season? THAT team must be the favorite to win the whole thing in Korean Professional Baseball League(ex-Cub 1st baseman Choi will also be their teammate)! :-)
Mike C. you have got to be kidding me. A bit melodramatic are we?
You mean you can't possible bear the thought of the LEFT HANDED Ryan Church batting SEVENTH? He of the 43 doubles THAT WOULD HAVE LED THE METS LAST SEASON and the 114 OPS+? Not to mention his being a superior defender to the statue Shawn Green… but yeah, who cares about defense anyways.
And Schneider is going to be our EIGHT hitter. I would assume Castro is going to be seeing some more playing time this season since he got paid. And please, don't tell me about Johnny Estrada. We got him for Mota and the Nationals didn't even want him in the initial trade. They only picked him up because LoDuca had surgery. Estrada is immensely overrated. Dude had one All Star season in Atlanta and ever since has been living off his reputation. He's barely average and is always hurt. At least Schneider gives us someone who can throw runners out. By the way, he posted a higher OBP than LoDuca last season.
Now PLEASE… PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE… do not misconstrue my defense of Church and Schneider as an official statement advocating their merits for inclusion in Cooperstown. That is NOT my intent. I am well aware that these guys are about league average players (or in Church's case, slightly above league average), but everyone needs to realize that league average players are VERY VALUABLE commodities. Having Church in RF (and he IS an upgrade over Green) means we don't have to platoon Ricky Ledee and Chip Ambres, or even worse, shell out a ludicrous contract to a washed up players like Geoff Jenkins or Trot Nixon.
One more time, just to drive the point home. Church and Schneider are going to hit SEVENTH AND EIGHT, respectively. That means Reyes, Castillo, Wright, Beltran, Delgado, and Alou will be hitting in front of them… and on days when tough lefties hit, Schneider won't even be in the lineup. While I know you all would have loved Vladimir Guerrero and Russell Martin to replace Green and LoDuca… Church and Schneider will have to do. I know… I know. However will we survive with those guys hitting SEVENTH and EIGHTH!?
Ya know, since those are real crucial RBI spots.
I apologize if I laid on the sarcasm a bit thick there, but this comment: "We’ll call it a ground-rule double. A gigantic success tempered by an almost-as-gigantic mistake," almost made me hit the ceiling. The Santana trade is on a whole different plane… heck a whole different state of being than the Milledge deal. Let's be honest here… attempting to write as an unbiased baseball fan here.
The Milledge deal involved the Mets swapping an over-hyped, albeit still very talented ballplayer who had a lot of success in the minors, but didn't exactly set the world on fire when in the Bigs. He did showcase his tools at times, but little things like hitting the cutoff man and hitting curve balls seemed to elude him. In return, they received a no-hit, solid-glove LH hitting catcher with a strong arm, although his defense has declined as of late. They also received a LH corner OF who broke into the Bigs as an older player and put up solid numbers, although he struggles against LH pitching. The red flag with him is his age and the very small body of work for a player of this age, which indicates very little upside.
The Santana deal involved the Mets trading: a really fast guy who has shown zero propensity to hit for power in the future, but is loaded with athletic ability (Gomez – dude's swing is all arms and no legs), a pitcher who blew his elbow out two years ago, although he was a former #1 pick (Humber), a guy who had a sub-.500 record pitching for Villanova in college, but has steadily climbed up the Mets organizational ladder (Mulvey), and a 19 year old who has never pitched above A ball, but does have an incredible secondary pitch (Guerra). In return they received THE BEST PITCHER IN BASEBALL, who has won 2 Cy Youngs pitching in the more difficult league in perhaps the strongest division in baseball (Indians, Tigers, and White Sox have all been solid teams during the course of Johan's career.)
So to recap, the Milledge trade involved the Mets dealing a prospect for two role players, while the Santana deal involved the Mets getting the best pitcher in baseball. How in the heck can you even try to compare the two… nevermind the ludicrous attempt to qualify the immense success of the Santana deal by saying it just tips the scales in our favor b/c the Milledge deal was so bad. Just a ridiculous statement. Honestly, I don't know what to tell you if the Milledge deal "tempers" your feelings about the Johan trade.
Johan Santana is a special player. He had a 1.07 WHIP (best in the AL by the way) and over a strikeout an inning. He only walked 52 in 219 innings. He was a flat out stud last year. He'll be 29 this year so he's still in his prime. He's been the best pitcher in the majors over the last 5 years. This makes them legitimate contenders next year. I think this is a good deal. Santana will be good for years to come. They can fill their holes with other players. FAs if they have to. They now have a core that can keep them in contention for the next 4 years.
~~ They now have a core that can keep them in contention for the next 4 years. ~~
Now only if Pelfrey could be developed into a #3…..
I have faith in Pelfrey. Worst case scenario, he moves to the bullpen and becomes a dominant setup man, potential closer.
I miss Glavine.
This is a GREAT trade! Yes, you hate to lose guys who you were expecting to grow up with your team, but when's the last time we had an ACE! Pitching wins Championships and now we've arguably got thet best on the planet. I say give him 5 or even 6 with options for 1/2 more.
Keith—What you don't understand is that Church's OPS doesn't mean anything. He's a scrub, a platoon player, a career minor-leaguer—there are more apt descriptors; I just can't remember all of them right now.
For the purposes of discussion here, I would suggest that you overlook his minor-league credentials (especially that season where he hit .346 and slugged over .600 in AAA) and the idea that his SLG numbers in the bigs have ranked him, depending on the season, among the top 6-15 outfielders in the NL. Instead, focus on the fact that he is a scrub deemed expendable by the lowly Nationals, an organization that would rather spend its resources on the likes od Cristian Guzman.
By the way, did I mention that he's a scrub?
Good show Mike C. keith says schneider will bat 8th, WOW. In 2006 a 280 hitter with 18 HRs batted 8th, now there's a 230 hitter with 4 HRs batting 8th, and 7 th a guy who can't hit lefties, who will follow a Alou replacement who can't hit regularly who will follow a 1b who may no longer be able to hit lefties who will follow a clean up hitter who is weaker against lefties. I wonder how many lefties will bve found to face this team. Just because Omar did good in this deal, doesn't mean the other deal suddenly goes from bad to good, and then there's curse boy who can't understand 4A stats don't mean didly. I don't agree with all your criticisms Mike C but you did a great evaluation of a team with still many holes.
Hey Candyass, are you ready to take that Milledge-Church bet or are you just content to lob missives from a computer keyboard? Let us know.
dear stupid curse boy.. obviously you are illiterate. i hope your mommy reads all this to you. but then she'd have tpo spend the day explaining to you in i1 35 terms why it is that it is not good to blindly follow, even if iot is only a gm. it was explained earlier why i'd never eat your food, so go away and ask mom to find it for you and then go to PSL and take out your tongue and drool when you see your boy ryan in rf and the two of you can spew all kinds of anti semitic stuff and then you can say its ok cause he's an ignorant puke just like you are curse boy.
Let's take a look at this at face value. Glavine is gone (boo hoo, waa waa… bleepin' brave) and he was the staff's "ace" last year. Let's just pretend Santana is simply taking his spot in the rotation and forget about the outside trade stuff. Here's what Glavine offered:
13 – 8 record
4.45 ERA
200 IP
89 K's
64 BB
*Game #162 against the Marlins… I'm sure you all remember that one.
Santana, in a down year, on a terrible offensive team did this:
15 – 13
3.33 ERA
219 IP
235 K's
52 BB
This may be the best move Omar ever makes. Pedro and Beltran were terrific signings, but you've now got a bona fide ace who's got at least five 18-win seasons left in him. I'll sign for that any day.
I do agree with some of the commenters that losing both Millege AND Gomez hurts, but you gotta assume they really like F-Mart and think he's about ready. The money they'll have to spend on Santana is going to hurt us all (upper reserved will probably cost more than a car payment now), but i think we'll all be smiling at the Ticker Tape parade.
Keith – Way to go there boy!!! I wonder if we would be comparing this trade with the Milledge trade had they been done in reverse order.
I liked the way you used logic and kept emotion out of the picture. You said everything I wanted to say and did a much better job then I could have done.
I have posted many times on the negativity on this blog. It is not that I want to have everyone just fall in line and think management is great. Just that I think instead of logic and thought many use emotion colored with vitriol.
If on this day, when the Mets get and ace, there has got to be all this badmouthing what would have happened if they had lost out on the deal. Sometimes you just have to tip your hat (or some other overused baseball saying).
Thanks for a great post. And I just put on my flack jacket.
I love the deal. It is a steal of a deal. It makes the Mets favorites to win the NL pennant and no, I don' back up my words by betting money.
All the fair weather friends who now don't write today that Santana will cost the Mets too much, that don't write today any more how we need these prospects. that now blast the Omar bashers. The Omar bashers got what we want. You fair weather boys and girls don't see that because you think he's perfect. He made up for past errors yesterday BUT, he has a long way to go to make up for doing nothing last July. We were then and are today built for today and this man who built for today forgot that last July. So he tries to make up for it BUT if Delgado and Alou are too poast their rime and Castillo's does not rebound on grass fields ad Church is a 29 year old AAAA player and Schneiuder is in a rapid decline then even this trade was too late. Today still might have been 2007. I hope not but I remember other years when the Mets or somebody welse were pre annointed. I remember just a couple months ago when Rudy was pre annointed as our next President and now he's crying on the podium, a loser, withering as fast as a rose.
Delcos made good points in defense of not getting Santana. I disagree but at least I'm not a fair weather fan like Sloppy's cheeseckae bozo friend, and his new sidekicks.
I agree with the posters who think this team could be buried by a tide of lefties, or injuries. But I'm proud of this move. After a year and a half of bad moves, finally a big positive. I think we'll be a contender but like the rest of teams there are still questions all over the field. Deny it fair weather fans and you can only be depressed.
And as I said last night I don't have to change my name!!!
And remember all you Willie bashers, that Tom Coughlin was buried by media and fans but somehow his GM said he stays and now he's in the Super Bowl. Remember that next time you bash Willie. You fire him, you could get a Torborg back.
One of the best deals in Met history. Definitely a top 5.
It's like getting Mike Piazza all over again. :-) Glad to see youre finally coming around Delcos. I think you owe Omar an apology. He wasn't being used like YOU thought. Nah nah na nah na!!! :-)
So, you won't make the bet?
You'll spout your nonsense here on this blog, but won't back it up, right?
Candyass…
Benny: You are a disgrace to Mets Nation. Cool it. Everyone is sick of your vulgarity and stupuid begging to make an internet bet. If you can't describe your emotions without cursing, take it to the gutter where you apparently spend a good deal of your time.
clm: Its not bad mouthing. The people you claim are negative, for the most part, were begging for this move. The poeple like Ayala who revert to cursing and and such and others who now spit in Delcos' internet face because he opposed this move are what makes the board negative. Fair weather obnoxious people. You seem to be the exception, but to act like the Omar bashers are ruining the board is ridiculous. Is this the board you want:
post 1: The Mets are wondeful
post 2: the Mets are perfect
post 3: The Wilpons are so nice.
post 4: what a nice game the Mets played yesterday.
That's what you are asking for? That sure would liven up a board and knock it out of business.
I for one appreciate the in fighting and passion. Why it bugs you is beyond me. If you can't fight and argue over baseball then what good is it? Baseball as all sports really doesn't matter which makes the fighting so wonderfu;!!! Can't you see that. It keeps us from fighting about seripus things, and relieves the stress of life.
The only thing that should be stopped are the f bombs wielded by one ignorant poster. namely Ayala.
Benny, I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or not here, but allow me to comment on: "Instead, focus on the fact that he is a scrub deemed expendable by the lowly Nationals, an organization that would rather spend its resources on the likes od Cristian Guzman." If you're being sarcastic, this is a pretty accurate imitation of a lot of people I've read on the net.
So I should just ignore what he has done in the Bigs and base my total evaluation of him based on what the Nationals, who are surely one of the premier franchises in MLB, think of him. Ok. No more logic and actual numbers for me. I'll just leap to conclusions based on non sequiturs that the media have thrown out there. Hey, if Mike Francessa calls Church a 4th OF it MUST be true!
Hey Sloppy, do you know how often the Mets will face lefties? There are some teams who don't even have a lefty in their rotation. You do realize that Reyes, Castillo, and Beltran are all switch hitters. Wright and Alou crush lefties, and Castro will be playing on those days, no Schneider.
Sure, the 2006 team had Valentin hitting 8th, but that team also lost in the NLDS. We need to stop comparing this current team to teams from years past. This is the 2008 Mets. Not 2007, not 2006, not 1988, not 1986, not 1969, not 1992, etc. We can play the if game all day. I just find it ridiculous that we're doing it on a day we land the best pitcher in the game.
And no, Minaya isn't perfect. And no, this doesn't make the Milledge trade a good one now… but here's the kicker. We don't know if this trade was a bad one yet because we haven't played one game yet. Since guys like sloppy LOVE playing the what if game, Santana could turn in a horrible season, blow out his shoulder and that would be that. End of season. Then what if Gomez and Guerra turn into perennial All Stars? See. We can play what if until the cows come home.
letsgomets, while I agree that a lively dissent is always welcomed (and should always be), for anyone to have their feelings about the Johan trade be "tempered" b/c of the Milledge trade is just ridiculous.
This trade was exactly what the Mets needed and was the only way they could appreciably improve the team this offseason. Say what you want about Church and Schneider but there weren't many better replacements on the free agent market in what was a weak free agent class this offseason. Everyone else was coming back this year, so from where I am sitting the Mets are much better going into 2008 than when they ended 2007.
nice post letsgo… NO MORE CURSING Ayala. If you can't counter an argument with anything but cursing don't post because you have nothing to say. Most of us left the playground X years ago. why don't you grow up and play like grown ups do.
Thanks for all the defenders but I don't need 'em. When in DOJ fighting the bad guys and there slimy lawyers I think i heard qworse than curse boy could dream about. If you could only hear what goes on in those sessions that Law and Order gives lip service to!
Delcos: You done good for a press guy. You gave your board life and controversy when nothing was happening. You gave a reasonable sized forum for Met fans. See ya in spring training…...time for a winter break.
good bye curse boy. try to behave while I'm gone. I know you can't but try it. i'll even give an honest assessment of your girlfriend when i get back! and that's something you could never do, but i'll try to educate you…...
This is a great move.
Looking ahead, I hope OP has a good yr and Mets sign him. I hope Mets don't balk at it w/excuse they have no $$.
If they don't, I hope, it will give them three (Santana, Maine, OP) who can strike guys out who are 30 and under. Plus Pelfrey? will see.
As far as position players, I can dream of Texiera at 1B.
That would give them AS at leadoff and 3,4,5.
w/them and the above three P, Mets would have chance to be playoff team for many yrs for first time since 80's b/c the core would be young and good.
I hope. I dream.
Opening day come soon!
I couldn't have asked for anything more this week (well, except for Big Blue to beat the Patsies on Sunday, that is!). It is a great move. I keep hearing worries about the price tag, years, etc. I can't believe that Omar and the Wilpons are going to be blindsided in negotiations and say "Huh? you want how many years?!!? for how much?!?!?" They know what to expect and they must be willing to pay it or else why make the move at all.
Luv it.
Guarantees at least a couple of 20 win seasons for a Met pitcher. Makes our rotation very nice for this year. Makes us the odds on favs to win our division.
Not sure why everyone is talking Milledge here and past trades.
This team as constructed is pitching and D. The hitting is enuf to win. If our D is very good with the pitching we have ( assuming we can consistently get into the 7th inning stretch ) there will be no problems this year.
Dave
Santana should be paid more than Zito. They are not the same class of pitcher.
I am one of the converted who thought we shouldn't give up our prospects for Johan. But then my biggest fear was that the Mets would sign someone like Lohse or Livan to a multiyear contract and that's why I gave in and changed my mind. Without having to give up F-Mart or Pelfrey this trade looks pretty lopsided in our favor. Scoop – I have the same dreams as you, but Texiera will be a Yankee next year. They have a lot of money coming off the books and haven't had a solid 1B since Tino Martinez. It's good to be Texiera. The good thing is that we will also have money coming off the books and will be able to go after position players. I'm excited that we have the following locked up for the next 4-6 years or so – Santana, Maine, Perez (hopefully he gives us reason to this year), Wright, Reyes, Beltran, F-Mart, Pelfrey (not bad as a 4th starter). Maybe Duaner Sanchez reestablishes himself and we can use Heilman as trade bait at the deadline to put us over the top. Since it's not even spring training one can only hope for the best and look at all the positives. If you have a positive attitude positive results will usually follow – something the Mets would be advised to follow. I have gone from depressed to excited for this year in one fell swoop. Lets Go Mets!
You know why you don't want to make the bet, Candyass? Because your ability to play Internet name-calling games would become dependent on Milledge's performance. That's why.
You want it both ways. And that's pretty telling.
Keith—I was being sarcastic with you. I think Church is a good fit for this team and I believe, in the short term at least, that he'll be the better player than Milledge.
That said, there are folks here who want to criticize the deal and label Church a platoon player or a scrub—but aren't willing to back up this position with an actual wager on his performance.
In short, it would appear that they are more invested in being able to engage in name-calling than in actually supporting their positions.
Mel—I'm sorry that my language choices have not met with your approval. I don't see the difference between telling someone to go buy a Ryan Church jersey and telling them to go fuck themselves; to me, the meaning is the same in both, with only the actual word choice differing. Perhaps you could explain to me how these two expressed sentiments differ?
How about using Heilman as a relief pitcher to put us over the top because he happens to be a very good one.
The Milledge trade was a bad trade but it will probably be about even for this coming season.
Having said that Ryan Church is most definitely better than a AAAA player or 4th outfielder. The Nationals didn't deem him expendable at all. They traded him and another established major league player for a promising young prospect. They would have traded just Schneider to the Mets for Milledge if the Mets would have done that deal, believe me, but of course the Mets wouldn't have done that so they parted with Church. So they didn't deem him untouchable. That doesn't mean they looked at him as expendable. His SLG and OPS #s definitely do matter. What, now all of a sudden we don't care about numbers anymore? The Milledge deal was a bad trade but Church is most definitely a pretty good player.
Wow, Benny I wasn't in the middle of your fight but to write something so ignorant I think I totally understand the other guy. I can't believe you would write that you don't understand the difference between sarcasm and the lowest form of phraseology. You are a sad soul. Also, if you wouldn't be so blinded by your thoughts only, you would have read many good and solid comments on both sides of the Churtch issue. Your betting demands are almost as childish as your choice of language. You are the only one on this board who feels it necessary to curse to defend yourself. And I'm sure you are proud of yourself.
You know Benny, there are sites that allow us to block a poster (Scout has this option) but this one doesn't so try to be a grown up. Or go curse in the playground at PS 53 after school.
The Mets have gone overnight from having one of the most questionable what-if pitching staffs (inc. BP) to a bonafide powerhouse. Providing this deal is extended and goes through, which if the Wilflops are smart, they will OK whatever. The GDP of your home country Johan? You got it, LOL. That said, I think we are harping too much on the Milledge trade. What's done is done and as someone else pointed out, we don't know how good, bad, ugly the trade will be UNTIL WE PLAY A FREAKING GAME. We have not had a good defensive catcher since the days of Gary Carter. We seem to forget just how dominant those pitching staffs were with ace Dwight Gooden, but three relatively decent pitchers in Darling, El Sid and Bobby O (who never replicated what he did in 86 before or after). I think we should give Schneider a chance, much has been said about the way he calls a game. As for Church, well I call him insurance for Alou but like many of you I'd rather have Milledge, but it is TIME TO MOVE ON! NOW! Because Omar has orchestrated what we could look back on as one of the top 3 trades in Mets history…#3 being Gary Carter in the 84 offseason, #2 being Mike Piazza, #1 being Keith Hernandez for Neil Allen and Rick Owneby. Johan could slot right up there. NOW, that said, people freaking out about Glavine, I don't know if its tongue in cheek but we get picks from his signing with the enemy…did we forget? We paid for Santana in prospects…losing no draft picks and we kept our "crown jewels" in Pelf and FMart. NOW – I'd also like to remind you all that Glavine was NOT an ace last year! Our two aces were Oh Pea and Maine. Expect a solid solid SOLID year from Pea as he is in his walk year. Maine, I expect him to get better, but we realistically should not see him win more than 15 games, which is all we really need. People need to take a valium and relax. When Johan is introduced in orange & blue, we will have the strongest pitching staff in the NL. Mark my words.
That's funny, Mel. It reminds me of a conversation Walter Cronkite had with (of all people) Stuttering John. Cronkite interrupted Stuttering John to ask him about his use of the word "freaking," and Stuttering John replied that he was using it as a substitute for another word that he wasn't allowed to say. Cronkite then asked him if the use of "freaking" had, in any way, changed the meaning of the expression, and Stuttering John said no. Which led Cronkite to ask him why, if there was no change in meaning, he was then using the substitute word. Stuttering John, like most on this blog, had no answer.
Nope, you don't understand what I was saying at all. Spirited debate, yes. At all times please. What I am saying, in truncated form, is, this is a post about the Johan Santana trade. And while I am sorry about the POTENTIAL talent lost, this is a good move. Beating up Omar because of the Milledge deal now is like your boss saying "Thanks for that million dollar account you just got us" but instead of just leaving it there he had to add "but you sucked last year". May be true but inappropriate at the time.
And it is agreed that there are fairweather people here. But they have a right to post as well, I guess. I am just saying I was very happy this morning and expected a debate about the trade on both sides. Not to have to hear about other stuff that didn't really apply.
And I keep getting accused of looking at the world through rose color glasses. Not true. I have complaints about, I live and die with, and see what I think are mistakes by the Mets just like everyone else.
The rest of your post is fair and fine but not what I was arguing. Milledge is done, Church is here. But so is Santana. Now if they could just fix the bullpen and the subs and bench I would be even happier. And I don't know if they are a lock for the WS, pennant, or even the playoffs. There are a lot of ifs out there. But the rotation, the staple of baseball, pitching, pitching, pitching is taken care of. That part is great.
I hope they can stop the MLB slots and pony up money to rebuild the minors as well. If they are a big market team they need to act like one.
Does anyone know if they have signed the deal yet?
letsgometsgo:
Nope, you don't understand what I was saying at all. Spirited debate, yes. At all times please. What I am saying, in truncated form, is, this is a post about the Johan Santana trade. And while I am sorry about the POTENTIAL talent lost, this is a good move. Beating up Omar because of the Milledge deal now is like your boss saying "Thanks for that million dollar account you just got us" but instead of just leaving it there he had to add "but you sucked last year". May be true but inappropriate at the time.
And it is agreed that there are fairweather people here. But they have a right to post as well, I guess. I am just saying I was very happy this morning and expected a debate about the trade on both sides. Not to have to hear about other stuff that didn't really apply.
And I keep getting accused of looking at the world through rose color glasses. Not true. I have complaints about, I live and die with, and see what I think are mistakes by the Mets just like everyone else.
The rest of your post is fair and fine but not what I was arguing. Milledge is done, Church is here. But so is Santana. Now if they could just fix the bullpen and the subs and bench I would be even happier. And I don't know if they are a lock for the WS, pennant, or even the playoffs. There are a lot of ifs out there. But the rotation, the staple of baseball, pitching, pitching, pitching is taken care of. That part is great.
I hope they can stop the MLB slots and pony up money to rebuild the minors as well. If they are a big market team they need to act like one.
Does anyone know if they have signed the deal yet?
Well, Benny, it is an honor to have the world's biggest expert on cursing in our midst. The pride you and your family must have in your area of expertise!!! Maybe we can have give you a trophy as the most classless person on Delcos' blog site.
Mel—It's good to see you sticking to the topic and avoiding the personal asides. But, then again, that seems to be the easy way when you have no side to defend, eh?
clm I don't think we are on very different wave lengths. The only thing I think we must remember is that despite the subject that Delcos starts a lot of these conversations just move with him to his newest post. I don't think anyonw was upset about getting Santana but some people acted as though others here would be mad about the Mets getting better. You are a fine debater and respect other opinions unlike some here and I wasn't knocking you. But there's nothing to argue in this trade so I think that's why the old debates continue. But if you or I say there are still weaknesses there will be assaults for saying Omar isn't perfect.
PS: to Benny; He used a different word because unlike you, this guy had class. Take a hint from your own story.
LetsGo—My takeaway from Cronkite's story was that using "nicer" words doesn't change the meaning. Telling someone to go buy a Ryan Church jersey doesn't mean something different from my reply to it, just because "nicer" words were employed in the former.
And, yeah, you're right: He does have class. That's why he's engaged in name-calling and making fictional asides to my mother and my girlfriend, etc. It's because he has class. Good one.
curse boy: I'm getting ready for my winter vacation in Florida. Just to shut you up and let the rest of the people have an enjoyable time here, I'm buying a cheesecake and it will be at the game in PSL on 10 Mar (vs Boston). I'll have no problem finding you as I'll buy a scorecard so I know what number Church and you are wearing.
Benny Ayala (or whatever your name is)
Please stop using the "F" word on this blog. It is not acceptable here.
Are you saying the bet is on, Candyass?
Curse boy: Show and take the thing and shut up and leave us alone. See you 10 march curse boy? If you actually show i guess I'll have to buy you a beer as well. Beer is a 4 letter word. You probably know what that is! Until then shut your mouth and stop being an embarrassment to yourself. No this stupid discussion is over. Since I'm leavin tomorrow you don't need to respond with your vulgarities Just walk around with a Church jersey and we'll see you. An eyesore to be sure!