anyway now that the off season is over we can start a pool to guess when alou will go on dl, think he’ll make it to April 30?

And Scoop, you kind of gave a backhanded compliment. You said, “He is also a lucky SOB. Twice now (Beltran, Santana) he could have been outbid by Yanks but they decided not to be in the game.”

As for drinking the kool aid. Can we really call the Milledge trade a dumb move? Shouldn’t we see how things pan out before we kill Minaya over this trade? And I have yet to see anyone disagree with the assertion that Church and Schneider are both upgrades over Green and LoDuca, respectively.

I’m on record as being critical of Minaya’s activity since the Nady trade. He’s made some dubious moves. Some I understood at the time… others were head scratchers from the beginning. Like the Bannister deal. I personally wasn’t a huge fan of it, but I was able to defend it at the time. No one had any idea Bannister would have a season like he did. But I hated both the Bell and Lindstrom trades at the time they happened, especially considering Padilla and Duaner were both on the DL. His moves last off season just didn’t make a lot of sense.

Again, the ultimate point I am trying to make about Minaya he that he was seen as a hero one year and a scourge the next. The way I see it, nobody is perfect… GMs are going to make bad deals. I just feel like Omar has done more than enough good for me to cut him some slack on his moves last off season and his trading Milledge this off season. Now if things blow up in his face THIS season as well, then we need to start to re-evaluate things.

Lastly, it’s quite annoying to be referred to as “drinking the kool aid” when one puts forth a logical argument/defense of moves made by Minaya.

yup Pagan could be a guy to fill in if Church, Endy or Alou (inevitably) get hurt.

The other dot I’d connect is Angel Pagan. You can never have enough fifth-outfielder candidates, right?

1-Matt Wise signed as insurance in case Heilman traded
2-No FA pitcher signed including LH this wk
3-Endy Chavez signed to 2 yr deal before Gomez dealt
4-Gomez told to exit DR winter league team

I’m connecting dots. Anybody think these are related?

I stated this was a great move. Iv’e been saying for weeks they should get Santana.

But as I said to Annie on another thread, I don’t drink the Koolaid when management does dumb moves.

This is the only statement I agree w.

But you can say that about sports in general.

It is a big risk. Unless you have a team w/so much talent that it makes it near impossible to stink it up (Yanks) and therefore you guarantee playoffs and filled stadiums, and $$$ galore.

Yanks know it. Sox know it. Maybe Mets have discovered it too.

If I owned a BB team I’d follow Yanks strategy b/c it is risky but the payoff can be huge.

The Yanks revenue is more than 400MM/yr. Their franchise is valued at more than 1B. Steinbrenner bought the team for less than 10MM I believe 35 yrs ago. That is a damn good return on his investment.

In other sports your hands are tied and you have to be smarter than just spending $$. You have to be able to pick the right players and stay under a cap.

BB you don’t have to and never will b/c MLB knows that the big market teams bring in the big $$ b/c they have local networks. Other sports don’t b/c they don’t play every day or are not popular enough.

Hence, following Yanks or Sox model to me makes the most sense. And maybe Wilpons have seen this w/their big revenues from SNY.

Sounds kinda candy-ass to me.

If Mets say they have no money they are full of you know what!

Story in one of the papers the other day stated Yanks still make 200MM+ even w/200MM+ payroll.

Mets can’t be far behind w/SNY, filled Shea (and now filled Citi which they can now charge even more w/Santana on board b/c they will make playoffs), stadium naming rights, etc etc etc etc etc etc etc…..........

“I see the Mets having significant holes that these prospects could have filled either on the field and in future trades. That concern, however, is lessened somewhat in that they get to keep Pelfrey and Martinez.”

Holes? ok fine, but those holes are being emptied by guys who have a combined salary of 40MM+.

They ought to be able and go out and pick up an OF and a 1B next yr for less than that.

And hopefully Pelfrey will be ready to shine in 09 if Pedro is not back.

And some think FMart could step up in 09 in the OF.

That leaves 1B.

I don’t see the issue.

The only possible issue is if Pedro and El duque both go down. You only have Pelfrey now plus some scrubs I’m sure they will bring in.

Sure, he swung and missed last off season both in free agency and with his trades, but his track record since coming here is more towards the plus side than minus side.

And I happen to think Church and Schneider are both upgrades over LoDuca and Green. If you don’t, that’s fine. My point is this: voice your displeasure, but let’s ultimately give them a chance and see if they turn into a Duaner/Nady or a Ben Johnson. I believe Omar has earned it. You say he does bad he gets discredit… definitely right. But as of now, everyone’s opinion of this Church trade is just that, opinion. It isn’t good or bad right now.

Lastly, what failures last July? Sometimes you just can’t make a deal. He made the Castillo deal (which I was not and still am not a huge fan of… they should give Gotay a shot) and the Conine deal (which I liked at the time, but didn’t work out.) The Nats were asking for way too much for Cordero, who isn’t as good as people think he is. There just wasn’t a lot out there. You can’t fault someone for not making a trade. It takes two to tango.

Ultimately, my point is this. After 2006, Omar was a genius. The battle cry was “In Omar we Trust!” After 2007, there were some who wanted him fired. This is absurd. A guy doesn’t go from genius to dunce in one season. Once is an aberration, but twice is a trend… or something like that. Basically, I’m saying that all of the criticism bandied about this off season has been a bit harsh.

And even though today is a very positive day where we should be excited about the Johan trade… I can’t help myself. How come nobody even entertains the idea that Minaya dealt Milledge before he turned into the next Alex Ochoa/Damon Buford… rendering him valueless? Is that so out of the realm of possibility? Is it entirely impossible that in his brief stint in the Bigs the Mets got together and said “you know what? We were wrong on Lastings… let’s deal him before his value plummets.” This isn’t possible? And if this is the case, aren’t Church and Schneider unequivocally better than the 2007 versions of LoDuca and Green? Am I totally off base? Personally, I just would rather reserve judgment on this trade until after I’ve seen Milledge in Washington and our new guys in New York.

delcos you don’t have to defend your position. it woke this board up…..

1. I think $150 million is a lot of money and I can hear them saying how their hands might be tied in the future.

2. I see the Mets having significant holes that these prospects could have filled either on the field and in future trades. That concern, however, is lessened somewhat in that they get to keep Pelfrey and Martinez.

3. And, six and seven years is a risk for any pitcher.-JD

He landed Beltran, Pedro, and Wagner. He traded for LoDuca, Delgado, and (hopefully) now Johan. He also made small deals for Maine, Perez, and Duaner (not his fault he got in that cab) that have paid huge dividends. Lastly, he locked up Reyes and Wright to deals that have turned out to be absolute BARGAINS (Wright’s especially).

And to respond to something you posted in the previous thread: Minaya has not wasted the last two seasons. 2007 sure, but not 2006. He struck out on Zito and Dice-K, but the Sox outbid everyone by a significant mount (Minaya outbid the YANKEES there), and as for Zito, well, I think we can all agree he did the right thing by saying “thanks, but no thanks.” Instead, they’ll be giving that money to Johan now (again, hopefully), and he still has his best pitching prospect (Pelfrey) and one of the brightest hitting prospects in baseball (Martinez).

If this thing becomes official tomorrow all of Minaya’s critics should cut him some slack (and the Wilpon’s critics too for that matter). This is what everyone wanted, and now you sit back and give Church and Schneider a fair shot.

As for the deal itself, Omar did the right thing by being patient. Santana apparently made it clear he wanted to pitch in Queens, and wanted to be there before pitchers and catchers report. The Twins for their part got prospects that work in their system. They value Gomez’s speed and defense more than some other clubs might. They also brought back a high-ceiling prospect (Guerra). This wasn’t a bad deal for them.

The Mets got themselves a true ace… in his prime; a guy who should age well since he’s not overly dependent on athleticism or velocity. That they have other holes to possibly fill is, to some extent, besides the point. You’d much rather attempt to fill those holes from the position the Mets are now in-assuming they close the deal-than the position the were in 24 hours ago.