Comments on: Rocket off his orbit http://mets.lohudblogs.com/2008/01/09/greetings/ All about the Mets Tue, 17 Nov 2009 07:08:38 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: dave http://mets.lohudblogs.com/2008/01/09/greetings/comment-page-1/#comment-31866 dave Sat, 12 Jan 2008 01:03:30 +0000 http://mets.lohudblogs.com/2008/01/09/greetings/#comment-31866 Ok. How about Izzy - good closer and Jay Payton. Slim pickings... The quibles about HoJo etc I discount. Even if we didn't draft them we went out and got them while they were still prospects which you could argue is part of the farm. My point was to the other poster saying the Mets farm system has been barren for 1/2 century is that at one time we did quite well. I think part of the problem with the current team is we gave up some of our farm to get players like Delgado. With the FA signings it hurts the ability to replenish. A lot of our problem is perception. In 2006 we knocked on the door. In 2007 we fell short - with a good but flawed team. So as fans we want to get back to 2006 and right now we are not confident we can do that with this team and so we rip management who in the past 3 years or so has actually done fairly well. Ok.

How about Izzy – good closer and Jay Payton. Slim pickings…

The quibles about HoJo etc I discount. Even if we didn’t draft them we went out and got them while they were still prospects which you could argue is part of the farm.

My point was to the other poster saying the Mets farm system has been barren for 1/2 century is that at one time we did quite well.

I think part of the problem with the current team is we gave up some of our farm to get players like Delgado. With the FA signings it hurts the ability to replenish.

A lot of our problem is perception. In 2006 we knocked on the door. In 2007 we fell short – with a good but flawed team. So as fans we want to get back to 2006 and right now we are not confident we can do that with this team and so we rip management who in the past 3 years or so has actually done fairly well.

]]> By: Steve (The Original) http://mets.lohudblogs.com/2008/01/09/greetings/comment-page-1/#comment-31852 Steve (The Original) Fri, 11 Jan 2008 21:24:58 +0000 http://mets.lohudblogs.com/2008/01/09/greetings/#comment-31852 Dave: How about the farm system in the 90's and the OO's? FWIW, Darling, Sid, Hojo, and Cone all came from different organizations. Dave: How about the farm system in the 90’s and the OO’s? FWIW, Darling, Sid, Hojo, and Cone all came from different organizations.

]]> By: dave http://mets.lohudblogs.com/2008/01/09/greetings/comment-page-1/#comment-31844 dave Fri, 11 Jan 2008 20:51:59 +0000 http://mets.lohudblogs.com/2008/01/09/greetings/#comment-31844 I was looking up the rankings of our minor league players. The rumors of what the twins want is essentially our top 5 prospects leaving us very bare afterwords. I agree the Mets should play poker and see if the twins flinch. But we have little leverage. If we want to get better this year the only players that seem available to us are Blanton and Santana. If we pass on both we have a good shot at sitting home this year and next. As for our history of producing from the farm - we did very well in the 80's: Doc, Straw, Mitchel, Darling, El Sid, HoJo, Elster, Nails, Mook, Maz, Cone, Aguilera many very good players in the mid 80's. I was looking up the rankings of our minor league players.

The rumors of what the twins want is essentially our top 5 prospects leaving us very bare afterwords.

I agree the Mets should play poker and see if the twins flinch. But we have little leverage. If we want to get better this year the only players that seem available to us are Blanton and Santana. If we pass on both we have a good shot at sitting home this year and next.

As for our history of producing from the farm – we did very well in the 80’s: Doc, Straw, Mitchel, Darling, El Sid, HoJo, Elster, Nails, Mook, Maz, Cone, Aguilera many very good players in the mid 80’s.

]]> By: Steve (The Original) http://mets.lohudblogs.com/2008/01/09/greetings/comment-page-1/#comment-31843 Steve (The Original) Fri, 11 Jan 2008 20:48:14 +0000 http://mets.lohudblogs.com/2008/01/09/greetings/#comment-31843 Still sane: Injuries can not be controlled by anyone. Any player that is being paid alot of money can get injured so I don't think that should be a factor. On a serious note, as far as starting off poorly goes, unless he is terrible for the first half of the season, I would seriously doubt that his trade value will go down. And if for some reason he gets injured, it's all over for him anyway and the Twins would regret not dealing him in the offseason. Still sane: Injuries can not be controlled by anyone. Any player that is being paid alot of money can get injured so I don’t think that should be a factor. On a serious note, as far as starting off poorly goes, unless he is terrible for the first half of the season, I would seriously doubt that his trade value will go down. And if for some reason he gets injured, it’s all over for him anyway and the Twins would regret not dealing him in the offseason.

]]> By: scoopcoop http://mets.lohudblogs.com/2008/01/09/greetings/comment-page-1/#comment-31828 scoopcoop Fri, 11 Jan 2008 16:23:02 +0000 http://mets.lohudblogs.com/2008/01/09/greetings/#comment-31828 gump, "If they back up the truck for Johan then there won’t be anything left for anyone else for a few years." I disagree. Next yr the budget could drop by 40MM (pedro, el duque, delgado, alou). There should be plenty of $ even if the budget remains below 120MM. sane, "Let’s all just hope that they do not trade the entire New Orleans team for Santana!" I'm sure you meant, "let's hope they don't trade away the five guys mentioned in the latest "News"". B/c if they trade away NO, I could care less. That would only mean Gomez, Mulvey and Humber. And even though I'd like to see Omar try and keep one of the five (Gomez, Mulvey, Humber, Martinez, Guerra w/my preference being FMart) (and keep Pelfrey), if it takes 5 go ahead. Mets ability to dev talent is slim. One HOF, One CY winner, no MVPs, very few All stars in 45 yrs. That is pathetic. Make the trade, sign OP and you have three SO Pitchers for the next 5 yrs. Offensive players can be had. Best pitcher in BB can not. gump, “If they back up the truck for Johan then there won’t be anything left for anyone else for a few years.”

I disagree. Next yr the budget could drop by 40MM (pedro, el duque, delgado, alou). There should be plenty of $ even if the budget remains below 120MM.

sane, “Let’s all just hope that they do not trade the entire New Orleans team for Santana!”

I’m sure you meant, “let’s hope they don’t trade away the five guys mentioned in the latest “News””. B/c if they trade away NO, I could care less. That would only mean Gomez, Mulvey and Humber.

And even though I’d like to see Omar try and keep one of the five (Gomez, Mulvey, Humber, Martinez, Guerra w/my preference being FMart) (and keep Pelfrey), if it takes 5 go ahead.

Mets ability to dev talent is slim. One HOF, One CY winner, no MVPs, very few All stars in 45 yrs. That is pathetic.

Make the trade, sign OP and you have three SO Pitchers for the next 5 yrs.

Offensive players can be had. Best pitcher in BB can not.

]]> By: Stillsane http://mets.lohudblogs.com/2008/01/09/greetings/comment-page-1/#comment-31827 Stillsane Fri, 11 Jan 2008 14:35:12 +0000 http://mets.lohudblogs.com/2008/01/09/greetings/#comment-31827 To Annie Savoy - I totally agree with you that the integrity of the game is tantamount to the personnel rumors and moves of any one team, including the Mets. That being said, I still believe that the subject had been thoroughly discussed here with the information that has been available to date, including insight, conjecture, opinion, and speculation. I also agree with you that as information becomes available, that it should of course be discussed thoroughly as is any breaking news. That is the great part of any blog to share thoughts and view points, and, even argue about them. My point was and is that it should not be the only thing being discussed. John, you continue to do a great job in a keeping a Mets blog going even when they starve you for subject matter. Let's all just hope that they do not trade the entire New Orleans team for Santana! To Annie Savoy –
I totally agree with you that the integrity of the game is tantamount to the personnel rumors and moves of any one team, including the Mets. That being said, I still believe that the subject had been thoroughly discussed here with the information that has been available to date, including insight, conjecture, opinion, and speculation.

I also agree with you that as information becomes available, that it should of course be discussed thoroughly as is any breaking news. That is the great part of any blog to share thoughts and view points, and, even argue about them.

My point was and is that it should not be the only thing being discussed.

John, you continue to do a great job in a keeping a Mets blog going even when they starve you for subject matter. Let’s all just hope that they do not trade the entire New Orleans team for Santana!

]]> By: Stillsane http://mets.lohudblogs.com/2008/01/09/greetings/comment-page-1/#comment-31826 Stillsane Fri, 11 Jan 2008 14:17:18 +0000 http://mets.lohudblogs.com/2008/01/09/greetings/#comment-31826 Steve (The Original) - I did not say that no one would want him any more. It just brings up other questions, like possible injury, mechanics, etc... that cloud and sometimes lower the asking price of a premier player. If you are the team trading for him and what is perceived as over compensating in terms of players in return, it is a lot easier to do that without the pitcher having a less than stellar start of the season. If you remember last year, Barry Zito did not exactly set the world on fire after his signing and the Giants were already getting heat in May that they may have overpaid. Take also into consideration that the Twins only have him for this year before he becomes a free agent, so the players traded for him really are for the exclusive right to sign him before he becomes a free agent. The value for this right will definitely be affected by his performance as well as time as the 2008 season proceeds. Steve (The Original) – I did not say that no one would want him any more. It just brings up other questions, like possible injury, mechanics, etc… that cloud and sometimes lower the asking price of a premier player. If you are the team trading for him and what is perceived as over compensating in terms of players in return, it is a lot easier to do that without the pitcher having a less than stellar start of the season. If you remember last year, Barry Zito did not exactly set the world on fire after his signing and the Giants were already getting heat in May that they may have overpaid. Take also into consideration that the Twins only have him for this year before he becomes a free agent, so the players traded for him really are for the exclusive right to sign him before he becomes a free agent. The value for this right will definitely be affected by his performance as well as time as the 2008 season proceeds.

]]> By: Sloppy http://mets.lohudblogs.com/2008/01/09/greetings/comment-page-1/#comment-31825 Sloppy Fri, 11 Jan 2008 14:00:46 +0000 http://mets.lohudblogs.com/2008/01/09/greetings/#comment-31825 Grumpwine. How many World Series have the Yanks won since they mortgaged their farm. Are you blind. How long has free agency existed?? The Yanks won the Series many times. They haven't won since 2000 BUT, unluke ourMets they are in the playoffs every year. And whp has more of their own on their team. Not us ==The Yankees do. 2nd base home grown Yankee, Catcher home grown Yankee, SS home grown Yankee, CF home grown Yankee, their 19 game winner home grown Yankee, Closer home grown Yankee. Set up man end of last year home grown Yankee. How many home grown Mets. SS, 3B set up man. That's it. so who is the better system and who has really sold the farm. for nothing. Us??? If you're gonna compare, compare a battle the Mets win. It ain 't the farm syatem or free agency. They beat us both ways and that shouldn't be!!!! Grumpwine. How many World Series have the Yanks won since they mortgaged their farm. Are you blind. How long has free agency existed?? The Yanks won the Series many times. They haven’t won since 2000 BUT, unluke ourMets they are in the playoffs every year. And whp has more of their own on their team. Not us ==The Yankees do. 2nd base home grown Yankee, Catcher home grown Yankee, SS home grown Yankee, CF home grown Yankee, their 19 game winner home grown Yankee, Closer home grown Yankee. Set up man end of last year home grown Yankee. How many home grown Mets. SS, 3B set up man. That’s it. so who is the better system and who has really sold the farm. for nothing. Us??? If you’re gonna compare, compare a battle the Mets win. It ain ‘t the farm syatem or free agency. They beat us both ways and that shouldn’t be!!!!

]]> By: Gumpwine http://mets.lohudblogs.com/2008/01/09/greetings/comment-page-1/#comment-31824 Gumpwine Fri, 11 Jan 2008 13:07:10 +0000 http://mets.lohudblogs.com/2008/01/09/greetings/#comment-31824 Scoop and Omar - I am not against getting Santana...that would be insane. And it's not my money so who cares how much they pay him, but we all know there is definitely a budget at some point. If they back up the truck for Johan then there won't be anything left for anyone else for a few years. That's why I would go with Blanton - he is getting better, and he is locked up for three more years at a very reasonable price. And he would cost you less. As for the kids - maybe they won't pan out, maybe they will, but how many World Series have the Yankees won since they started mortgaging the farm? And the Red Sox have won by bringing up homegrown talent (Varitek, Papelbohn, Youkilis) and trading for players before their prices got too high (Ortiz) or supposedly troublesome (Ramirez). The Evil Empire won when they had a core of Jeter, Rivera, Posada, and Williams - all from the farm. In the end, it seems that the teams that win combine a bit of both, and if the Mets trade for Santana they become the Yankees of the 2000's, not the more desirable Yankees of the 1990's. Scoop and Omar – I am not against getting Santana…that would be insane. And it’s not my money so who cares how much they pay him, but we all know there is definitely a budget at some point. If they back up the truck for Johan then there won’t be anything left for anyone else for a few years. That’s why I would go with Blanton – he is getting better, and he is locked up for three more years at a very reasonable price. And he would cost you less. As for the kids – maybe they won’t pan out, maybe they will, but how many World Series have the Yankees won since they started mortgaging the farm? And the Red Sox have won by bringing up homegrown talent (Varitek, Papelbohn, Youkilis) and trading for players before their prices got too high (Ortiz) or supposedly troublesome (Ramirez). The Evil Empire won when they had a core of Jeter, Rivera, Posada, and Williams – all from the farm.
In the end, it seems that the teams that win combine a bit of both, and if the Mets trade for Santana they become the Yankees of the 2000’s, not the more desirable Yankees of the 1990’s.

]]> By: scoopcoop http://mets.lohudblogs.com/2008/01/09/greetings/comment-page-1/#comment-31823 scoopcoop Thu, 10 Jan 2008 22:39:18 +0000 http://mets.lohudblogs.com/2008/01/09/greetings/#comment-31823 sane,"The Evil Empire’s wavering stance may just be talk to try and disrupt the Twins from leveraging them for more talent." If that is the case Hank S. is a great poker player b/c it certainly seems that he says what is on his mind w/o really thinking. sane,”The Evil Empire’s wavering stance may just be talk to try and disrupt the Twins from leveraging them for more talent.”

If that is the case Hank S. is a great poker player b/c it certainly seems that he says what is on his mind w/o really thinking.

]]> By: Steve (The Original) http://mets.lohudblogs.com/2008/01/09/greetings/comment-page-1/#comment-31822 Steve (The Original) Thu, 10 Jan 2008 22:33:04 +0000 http://mets.lohudblogs.com/2008/01/09/greetings/#comment-31822 Stillsane: LOL! If Santana opens the season 0 & 3, no one will want him anymore. :-) Stillsane: LOL! If Santana opens the season 0 & 3, no one will want him anymore. :-)

]]> By: Ricardo Sergio http://mets.lohudblogs.com/2008/01/09/greetings/comment-page-1/#comment-31821 Ricardo Sergio Thu, 10 Jan 2008 20:50:59 +0000 http://mets.lohudblogs.com/2008/01/09/greetings/#comment-31821 Blog is wonderful, an excellent layout. Congratulations, Ricardo Sergio Faça the Difference! http://facaadiferenca.blogspot.com Blog is wonderful, an excellent layout.

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]]> By: Stillsane http://mets.lohudblogs.com/2008/01/09/greetings/comment-page-1/#comment-31820 Stillsane Thu, 10 Jan 2008 20:48:58 +0000 http://mets.lohudblogs.com/2008/01/09/greetings/#comment-31820 The Twin's asking price is a lot of talent. The Evil Empire's wavering stance may just be talk to try and disrupt the Twins from leveraging them for more talent. If the Twins had wanted to make a deal by now, it would have been made. It will be interesting to see if they wait until the season opens and take the chance that Santana goes 0-3 and his stock drops. Personally, I believe if he is going to be traded at all, it will be before pitchers and catchers report. The more time passes, the more the Twins are reminding me of the Orioles and their lack of trading tendencies. The Twin’s asking price is a lot of talent. The Evil Empire’s wavering stance may just be talk to try and disrupt the Twins from leveraging them for more talent. If the Twins had wanted to make a deal by now, it would have been made. It will be interesting to see if they wait until the season opens and take the chance that Santana goes 0-3 and his stock drops. Personally, I believe if he is going to be traded at all, it will be before pitchers and catchers report. The more time passes, the more the Twins are reminding me of the Orioles and their lack of trading tendencies.

]]> By: dave http://mets.lohudblogs.com/2008/01/09/greetings/comment-page-1/#comment-31819 dave Thu, 10 Jan 2008 20:34:41 +0000 http://mets.lohudblogs.com/2008/01/09/greetings/#comment-31819 JD - I like the look of the new site. It is cleaner and seems better organized. This section now is out of synch layout wise. It does not look like it is from the same site. However the main site is slower than watching paint dry. I tried to comment on the main page but it takes forever to load and then did not have a comments section. JD –
I like the look of the new site. It is cleaner and seems better organized.

This section now is out of synch layout wise. It does not look like it is from the same site.

However the main site is slower than watching paint dry. I tried to comment on the main page but it takes forever to load and then did not have a comments section.

]]> By: dave http://mets.lohudblogs.com/2008/01/09/greetings/comment-page-1/#comment-31818 dave Thu, 10 Jan 2008 19:52:37 +0000 http://mets.lohudblogs.com/2008/01/09/greetings/#comment-31818 JD - How did the young talent do in winter leagues this year? Anyone stand out, get worse, etc? Did Mulvey/FMart/Guerra play? JD – How did the young talent do in winter leagues this year? Anyone stand out, get worse, etc?

Did Mulvey/FMart/Guerra play?

]]> By: dave http://mets.lohudblogs.com/2008/01/09/greetings/comment-page-1/#comment-31817 dave Thu, 10 Jan 2008 19:49:14 +0000 http://mets.lohudblogs.com/2008/01/09/greetings/#comment-31817 It is an interesting proposal. It is A LOT of players. I think I would wait a bit. And yes it is useful to state the obvious in negotiations. However at the end of the day I would rather have Santana than Blanton. I would pay the $$ for top tier talent, but not for second tier like Zito. I wonder what Billy Beane wants for Blanton? It is an interesting proposal.

It is A LOT of players. I think I would wait a bit. And yes it is useful to state the obvious in negotiations.

However at the end of the day I would rather have Santana than Blanton. I would pay the $$ for top tier talent, but not for second tier like Zito.

I wonder what Billy Beane wants for Blanton?

]]> By: sloppy... http://mets.lohudblogs.com/2008/01/09/greetings/comment-page-1/#comment-31815 sloppy... Thu, 10 Jan 2008 18:40:00 +0000 http://mets.lohudblogs.com/2008/01/09/greetings/#comment-31815 Do you really think the Twins need the Mets to tell them what heppens if they lose Santana as a FA? If the Twins or any other team don't want to pay a star do you think they realy care where the guy goes? If they don't keep their talent they don't plan on winning, do they? And what difference does it make if the number if kids is 4 or 5. Even in the roundly 20/20 hindsight trade for Robby Alomar none of the kids the Mets gave up became even average. This GM always finds old guys to keep kids from playing anyway, so what do you need them for here? Even the Yankees are more willing to go with kids than the Mets are. The only question is whether or not this ownership will overpay, like they did for Pedro, to keep this team a contender. Now that Shea is filled and the new rip off joint is about to open, their distress level is zero. So we shall see what they care about won't we? Do you really think the Twins need the Mets to tell them what heppens if they lose Santana as a FA?
If the Twins or any other team don’t want to pay a star do you think they realy care where the guy goes? If they don’t keep their talent they don’t plan on winning, do they? And what difference does it make if the number if kids is 4 or 5. Even in the roundly 20/20 hindsight trade for Robby Alomar none of the kids the Mets gave up became even average. This GM always finds old guys to keep kids from playing anyway, so what do you need them for here? Even the Yankees are more willing to go with kids than the Mets are. The only question is whether or not this ownership will overpay, like they did for Pedro, to keep this team a contender. Now that Shea is filled and the new rip off joint is about to open, their distress level is zero. So we shall see what they care about won’t we?

]]> By: Camilo http://mets.lohudblogs.com/2008/01/09/greetings/comment-page-1/#comment-31814 Camilo Thu, 10 Jan 2008 18:05:11 +0000 http://mets.lohudblogs.com/2008/01/09/greetings/#comment-31814 I personally would not like to see the Mets pony up 5 players for Santana. I wonder if F-Mart replaces Gomez as part of the package if the Twins would accept it. If I were the Mets, part of my bargaining chip would be that the Twins would lose Santana after next season, it would be best to receive these 4 players than to take a chance on a first round pick as compensation. Plus the other two teams in the running are in the American League. I seriously doubt the Twins would want to crown a dynasty within their league. I personally would not like to see the Mets pony up 5 players for Santana. I wonder if F-Mart replaces Gomez as part of the package if the Twins would accept it.

If I were the Mets, part of my bargaining chip would be that the Twins would lose Santana after next season, it would be best to receive these 4 players than to take a chance on a first round pick as compensation. Plus the other two teams in the running are in the American League. I seriously doubt the Twins would want to crown a dynasty within their league.

]]> By: scoopcoop http://mets.lohudblogs.com/2008/01/09/greetings/comment-page-1/#comment-31813 scoopcoop Thu, 10 Jan 2008 17:18:53 +0000 http://mets.lohudblogs.com/2008/01/09/greetings/#comment-31813 Gumpwine, "It strips the organization of all of our best prospects." How do you know any of those guys will be all-stars let alone one of the best in BB? Based on Mets poor 45 yr record of player dev, I'd take my chances. That being said, I don't want to get rid of so many guys, but I don't think there is going to be anyone close to Santana next yr or any yr thereafter. Teams are locking these guys up (Zambrano, Peavy, Oswalt, probably CC Sab). Gumpwine, “It strips the organization of all of our best prospects.”

How do you know any of those guys will be all-stars let alone one of the best in BB?

Based on Mets poor 45 yr record of player dev, I’d take my chances.

That being said, I don’t want to get rid of so many guys, but I don’t think there is going to be anyone close to Santana next yr or any yr thereafter. Teams are locking these guys up (Zambrano, Peavy, Oswalt, probably CC Sab).

]]> By: OMAR PADILLA http://mets.lohudblogs.com/2008/01/09/greetings/comment-page-1/#comment-31812 OMAR PADILLA Thu, 10 Jan 2008 16:38:25 +0000 http://mets.lohudblogs.com/2008/01/09/greetings/#comment-31812 Grumpwine... Its thinking like yours that keeps the Mets the # 2 team in the City. Mets shouldn't get the best? Mets shouldn't pay because WHY??? Because the Wilpons are too poor?? Because they might raise ticket prices??? You want a winner or not??? Obviously you don't. Grumpwine… Its thinking like yours that keeps the Mets the # 2 team in the City. Mets shouldn’t get the best? Mets shouldn’t pay because WHY??? Because the Wilpons are too poor?? Because they might raise ticket prices??? You want a winner or not??? Obviously you don’t.

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