Who is available?
-
- December
- 20
Kyle Lohse, Carlos Silva and Livan Hernandez are the three best pitchers remaining in the free agent market.
OH BOY!!!!
Considering the options, I’d be more inclined to see what Mike Pelfrey or Phil Humber can do.
If they bust out, there’s the trade deadline.
Those three options do little for me and are fifth-starter caliber at best.
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on Thursday, December 20th, 2007 at 11:26 am by John Delcos.
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I posted this in a prior spot.
Kyle Lohse a Met?
It’s believed the Mets have made an offer to Lohse for four years, but it’s not known if it is for the $10 million Per he is seeking. YUCK!
Phils backed out b/c they were only willing to go 3 yrs.
This is typical Coupon mentality. Get a guy who has some talent but b/c he is not top notch it won’t cost top $. And then our genious staff can fix him. What a bargain!
If the Mets were going to get one of these weak FA I was hoping for Livan H b/c it might have only been 1 yr. 4 yrs of LOHSE? He’ll be bood out of the stadium by June.
Best you can say is this is addition by subtraction b/c he is not on Phils. On the other hand it could be addition by subtraction for Phils b/c he is on the MUTS!
Silva signs w/Mariners. YES! This means they are out of Santana bidding. I still hold out slim hope for Johan.
Also the fact that the Mets are considering signing Lohse makes me think Omar has no confidence at all in Pelfrey and Humber to give him a 4.72 ERA and 180 innings. Imagine the GM from the Twins having a good laugh with that!
Looks like its down to Lohse and Hernandez. Lohse is definitely the better of those two.
I heard the Mariners were going to sign Silva 4 / 44 mil.
Just plain stupid.
I have said before sign any of these guys for 1 yr is ok,
even 2 years would tolerable, any more than this is insane.
We know Duque and Pedro will miss time, and the Mets do need a cushion. If Humber & Pelfrey pitch well it is easy to trade a 1 or 2 year deal but a 4 year deal is impossible.
Silva is not as old as I thought he was. He’ll be 29 this season so 32 in the last year of the deal. That is a big commitment to a back of the rotation guy though. And he was absolutely horrific in 2006. Very risky. Lohse is the same age and has pretty similar numbers the last few years. He’ll probably want similar money although with the Mariners out of the bidding perhaps he can be had for less especially in the length of the contract.
Wilpon’s are cheap and the mets will always be second class. As a met fan I’ve just about had it. I’ve been a fan since 1967 and I’ve just about had it with the mets and baseball in general.
Jason Jennings or Freddy Garcia would be good options.
They are going to need another starter neither Pelfrey/Humber pitched winter ball and nothing is going to help develop the off-speed pitches except practice. Either use them as relievers, especially Pelfrey or leave them in NO to develop they were rushed and need to slow down. Sign a fifth starter, they’ll come up when El Duque goes down for spot starts. El Duque wont pitch much past this year so they’ll slide into his spot and you’ll still have a fifth starter. If you pick Garcia then Pelfrey gets two months to prove he’s ready, if he isn’t then it’s easy and if he is you have a very good difficult situation – depth in the rotation….
I don’t think Pelfrey and Humber have been rushed. Pelfrey was already 23 in 2007. If you don’t make it by the time you are 24 you’re going to be a journeyman at best. To put it in perspective Pelfrey is the same age as Wright and Reyes and pitchers usually make it to the majors sooner. If he doesn’t make it this year he’ll be on the verge of being a bust. Humber is older than Pelfry. He’ll be 25 this season. Sorry to say but its time for these 2 to produce in the bigs or resign themselves to careers as middle relievers.
Tomg, I think you may be on to something. The Mets have to have more money to spend on players than they let on. They have to have some of the best revenue in the majors. I don’t really know what the numbers are but it seems to me they can afford top dollar for top talent. Of course they are paying top dollar for Pedro, Beltran and Delgado. There weren’t any top starting pitchers available in the free agent market this offseason though.
The Mets need pitching to cover innings. No one can be certain that the combination of Pelfrey/Humber along with Pedro will be able to compensate for the innings that Glavine pitched last year. For those who can recall, the Mets thought they had it all set up one year with young pitchers named Pulsipher, Isringhausen and Wilson only to have none of them available by the All Star break that year. Even if Mets get good results out of the above three that I have mentioned, there is still a need for an Oliver-like innings eater like we had in 2006. When the Mets signed Wise, I had the feeling that was to lessen the blow if they were to lose Heilman to a trade. I just hope that if that is so, then the trade includes some reliable starting pitching coming the Mets way. I could also see them offerring Pelfrey, Heilman, A. Hernandez (who the Mets have forgotten), and E Chavez (would hate to see him go) to someone in a trade in order to avoid losing their two young outfield prospects. And by the way to Omar, we are set at catcher now, thanks!
Taylor,
Of course the Muts have more money than they let on. They’ve got as big of a revenue stream as the Sox if not as big as the Yanks.
The Mets will have nearly half the payroll paid for by MLB.com and the naming rights (Citi) w/o having to sell a ticket, a hot dog, a beer or an ad on TV or radio.
They complain about being 2nd class to Yanks but they act like it.
They act like they want Arod but don’t really pursue it.
They act like they want Santana but claim they don’t want to empty the farm, but I still have the feeeling it is about the $.
And why do people keep saying that they want this guy or that but only for a yr?
Wake up people. These guys (Silva, etc.) can get 3-4-5 yr deals. That is what the Muts will have to do, unfortunately, if they sign one of these dopes.
Why do people keep saying that they want this guy or that but only for a yr?
Wake up people. These guys (Silva, etc.) can get 3-4-5 yr deals. That is what the Muts will have to do, unfortunately, if they sign one of these dopes.
I agree with scoop’s point (both times = ) ). The Mets will have to be competitive and offer multi year deals because that is what the market will bring for all but, the high risk (Colon, Prior) type of players. If they do not competitively go after what they want, they can just circle the wagons and make the claimed that they tried, knowing their offers would never be accepted in comparison to the others that team are offering to the same players.
Why do you have to give horrible pitchers 4 or 5 years because someone else will. These guys stink and I do not want to hear this is what the market will bear. Pay our own guys.
Sign Ollie Perez to a long term deal now. Wait till next year and try to sign Sabathia.
Just because you have money does not mean you should spend it.
Look at all the busts we signed just because money was available. Cedeno, Bonilla , Appier , Coleman.
(Please feel free to add your favorite bust )
Silva , Lohse would just continue in that long list.
If bona fide well above average staring piching talent becomes available in the free agent market the Mets should shell out serious money for it. Lohse, Livan H, etc are not well above average. They do need to round out the bottom of the rotation however. I just don’t know if its worth committing $40,000,000 over 4 yrs to do it. It also is not the only way.
Getting league average starting pitching is not that easy to do though. Look at last year when we suffered 10 or so starts from Brian Lawrence, Jason Vargas, Dave Williams and maybe some others that I’m forgetting.
If the Mets want Lohse or some other stinko guy and someone wants to give them 3-4-5 yrs, what are you gonna do?
Tell them the school sys is great?
I don’t want these guys, but if the stories are true, and The dopey Mets do want them, then to get them you gotta pay.
Just saw another Bland Blanton story…
ESPN.com, Buster Olney believes the Mets can acquire RHP Joe Blanton from the A’s, if they offeer OF Carlos Gomez, RHP Aaron Heilman and RHP Kevin Mulvey.
Blanton is not exactly a Cy Young candidate. Thats a lot to give up for him. (Maybe not though. I suspect Gomez will never learn to hit major league pitching).
Unfortunately we may need to sign a Lohse or Silva because Pedro and El Duque are both big time injury risks, especially El Duque.
You could do worse than Lohse as a 5th starter. From Keith Law: “Lohse is a standard four-pitch pitcher but lacks an out pitch; his fastball is 91-94 mph, and he has a hard slider around 85-86 mph as well as a straight change and a curveball. His control is excellent, but the combination of too much contact and too many home runs has kept him at or below league-average his entire career.”
I’d like to add that he’s pitched in some pretty bad pitcher’s parks in Minnesota, Cincinnati, and Philly over his career. Coming to Shea might help him out some. Also, he’s 29, which is the age where a lot of pitchers “get it.” If he could ever develop an “out” pitch there could be a smidge of upside there as well. Anyway, with this rotation, we need to get arms in here who can give us innings. Lohse could give us similar production to what Glavine gave last year.
I would also like to see them take a look at Josh Towers. He had a solid season in 2005, was hurt most of 2006, and had a rough year in 2007. He would be a guy who would be worth a look as a 5th starter.
Lastly, I would like to see the Mets inquire about Javier Vazquez. He had a really solid year last season and is still fairly young. He’ll probably cost a bundle, but he would be worth a look.
From the “Upon Hearing this I wanted to Vomit” department.
Keith Law indicated in his recent chat that Milledge is a break out candidate for 2008.
If you can sign Towers to minor league deal great otherwise do not waste a spot on the 40 man roster. Towers is just another was to spell Lawrence.
How do we know Loshse can handle NY. He has always been known as one of those guys who has a great arm and a 10 cent head.
The only reason Omar does not speak the truth about Loshe / Silva and Livan is that he might have to deal with a better player who has the same agent.
You can dress garbage up and put a bow on it, but it is still garbage.
Silva deal is official: 4 yrs / 48 mil Mariners
Please stop laughing….it is for real
That Silva deal is actively psychotic.
I’m sorry, I know that the prevailing theory is that the Wilpon’s are hopelessly cheap and that is why the Mets will not improve next year, but can someone tell me who they are supposed to spend money on assuming that they would? Where are all of these fantastic players just waiting to be “bought”?
Really—I would be horribly ticked off if they threw nearly 50 million dollars away on the likes of a pitcher like Silva. Just typing out the amount made me sick.
JT (also from Pelham)
Now figure out how much Oliver Perez will be worth.
Totally unbelievable.
JCT,
They could spend money on Santana.
I am believing more and more that the issue w/Johan is $ not our poor prospects. See this note…
At his blog for the Star-Tribune, La Velle E. Neal III conducts a Q&A with himself regarding Johan Santana…
“The word at the winter meetings was that the Mets kept their name involved for PR purposes.”
Scott,
you got it. OP has a good yr and he could be gone!
Scott,
on Silva…don’t laugh too hard.
Mets might do something that is close to that for Lohse!
and Keith….
problem w/Lohse is that he might get a 4/40 deal but still be a #5 guy…and Mets might be the team that does that dopey deal!
More on Lohse
as I said above…the thinking by Mets FO has got to be…
Lohse, we can fix his 10cent head…we can fix his command…etc…etc…
Heard that anywhere before?
More on Lohse
and when we fix him…he’ll be a bargain!!!!
not sure. :-(
The mets need an overhaul. thats for sure. and also someone on the team to put them in line and tell them there’s no coasting. DO or DO not!
Sign Prior and Freddy Garcia…no risk…worth a shot. They need something and it doesn’t look good
Scoop—the first part of that same quote from Neal mentioned that without Wright or Reyes the Mets didn’t have a shot.
This is what I mean—endless speculation based on supposed $$ limitations when it is quite clear that the Twins have a high prospect “bar” that the Mets are not willing or simply unable to meet. And I don’t think withholding Wright or Reyes is so crazy.
I think most of the innuendo involved with the hotstove is crap. We simply do not know what is going on within the Mets organization. We can guess all we want.
JT
JT
I still believe the biggest reason for Mets interest in these guys-Santana-Arod-is PR.
Mets love to have good PR. Look all the good will stuff they do.
But why they think fans will get excited by speculation and not actual signings or trades for top talent does not do it for this one fan.
Yeah, you can point to Pedro or Beltran and those were good things…but I still don’t trust this org…too many other guys they let pass by.
Taylor:
you’re saying:
If you don’t make it by the time you are 24 you’re going to be a journeyman at best.—————————————————
On the top of my head, Chien Ming Wang made it at the age of 25, in 2005… :)
Many of you just don’t get. You don’t sign garbage like Lohse for 4,3,2,1 year deals. You don’t sign them. And you certainly don’t sign the 2008 version of Lima time. To say get Colon on the cheap is what they say in Pittsburgh.
You either get talent or go with the kids and see what they have.
Scott you finally get it…. No junk. Omar’s given us enough already.
BTW, if Silva got 12 mil per, imagine what would Wang, a fellow sinkerballer, get when he turns FA… 15 mil per? oy…..
ESPN’s Buster Olney says the Padres are the front-runners to sign free agent Mark Prior.
Prior’s decision could come within the next day or two. The Rangers, Astros, Cardinals and METS have also talked to the right-hander.
What in the world are the Mets going to do when they get “normal injuries” to the pitching staff. We all know El Duque will miss his annual two months, and no team goes through an entire season without using 8-12 starting pitchers for various reasons. They have no depth, at all. I hate the choices available.
Also, the trading deadline is a waste of time. We basically have almost no trades anymore, and even if a decent pitcher is availabe the Mets will get outbid just as they have this offseason. This team is in big trouble with this terrible farm system. They better have a couple of good drafts the next couple of years, and sign some good players that are not subject to the draft.
Todd: The farm system is not terrible. The word is that the Mets have some pitching depth, although most of it is very young. What the Mets do not have is many position players after Martinez & Gomez. The system is rated middle of the pack.
My holiday wish is that many of you should show more faith in Humber & Pelfrey.
My crystal ball also says that Jason Vargas will shock us all and be a productive pitcher for the 2008 Mets.
Scott from P
There was a note in the paper that the Mets MiLB system finished last, record wise, of all MLB teams.
Record is not the only way to measure MiLB but having the worst combined records in all of BB is not a good sign.
Sid Fernandez and steroids: Finally, there is an explanation for his muscular physique.
Scott from P
sorry, Scott but your crystal ball on Vargas has a crack in it.
Anybody who does not think the Mets have a bad farm system has completely lost it. Every other team in baseball thinks Pelfrey and Humber are total garbage, and won’t even consider them in a trade. The farm system is a disaster, and it is killing them this off season. If they had a better farm system they would already have another top starter.
Scott from P: OMAR has no faith in Humber or Pelfrey…why should we?
Omar has faith it’s Willie who needs to show more faith.
Willie has no guts when it comes to pitching he would rather use a Lawrence or Mota instead of showing some faith
in a kid. Time and time again Willie will use an over the hill veteran instead of the kid with potential. If Bobby V were the manager Lastings would be starting in RF and Heath Bell would still be in the bullpen.
If the Mets flop early in 2008 I hope the Wilpons will have the guts to let Omar fire Willie and try a manager who has a clue in how to have some faith in the kids.
Todd: I guess I have completely lost it and so has John Sickels.
Anybody care to venture a guess why farm stinks?
I’ll venture.
Several wks ago it was written that Mets are only one of three teams that follow slotting system (read: salary bands) for draft picks.
Hence, if a draft pick is expected to want more than the band that the commisioners office suggests, than the Mets have not/will not draft that player.
Omar came out and said that might not follow this practice in the future.
TOO LATE for Santana, Haren, etc…
Scott: If Omar had so much faith in them, he wouldn’t go after garbage like Kyle Lohse or Livan Hernandez which you know he is going to do.
This offseason has been completly horrible. I could write a 5000 word essay on this, but I’ll try to keep it short.
Milledge was given away because Omar and Willie dont like him. Traded for 20 cents on the dollar.
Omar offered David Eckstein a 4 year deal. David Eckstein. Luckily the moron didn’t take it.
Omar had 2 OF prospects who he would potentially trade (Martinez being untouchable). He traded the guy who looked like he had promise in Milledge, and kept the guy who looks like he’s an Olympic sprinter but has never played baseball in Gomez.
He signed a guy who gets on base less than 30 percent of the time, is 30 something and clearly had knee problems last year (anyone watch Castillo run the bases, he looked like Jake Taylor from Major League) to a 4 year deal. I’m sure Luis will be studly for us at 2nd in 2 more years.
If that rumor for Blanton is true, thats horrendous.
If Omar gives anything more than a 1-2 year deal to one of these awful free agent SPs that is awful.
I dont understand how anyone can have faith in this approaching season. Its the same team with the same problems. Just substitute a guy who cant hit at C (Schenieder), a guy who cant hit lefties in RF (Church) and another bunch of losers in the bullpen. Why anyone could think this team could win a division is beyond me.
Omar is trying to buy Lohse or Livan on the cheap.
A one year or 2 year deal. This is not going to happen
after Silva got 4 yrs / 48 Mil. The Wilpons are dumb but not that dumb.
I will not argue about the Milledge deal because it make no sense to waste any more space.
On the draft and paying over slot. This really started to happen with the 2007 draft. Not before. Also you are not allowed to trade 2007 picks untill one year after their signing date. This means they could not be used for Haren or Santana. The only time prior to this that the Mets listened to the Commissioners office was with Pedro Beato.
He signed with the Orioles and nobody is calling him a # 1 starter. Please remember the Mets had no # 1 picks for the in 2006 & 2007. Also no # 2 or # 3 pick in 2005. Big name free agents will hurt you in the draft.
Also the Mets are not well liked for the large signing bonuses they give latin players. F-Mart’s bonus was huge
and the Mets took a lot of heat for this.
On Eckstein no one ever said that the Mets offered him 4 years. The rumor was that he wanted 4 yrs / 36 mil.
The Twins have a problem that they have to show that the prospects they get back for Santana have shown something at the ML level. Pelfrey & Gomez have not.
Angelos will never make another high profile trade with the Mets after Maine. He does not want to be embarrassed again.
You can hear WFAN very well at night in Baltimore, this drives Angelos crazy.
It is interesting how Willie is still being criticized for not playing the kids and then they want to fire him if he doesn’t win.
Willie is a smart man. He knows what’s up. He plays people who understand how to play and who he feels can produce for him. He is reluctant to play young guys for a reason. It directly affects his job security.
The owners and the GM want to win now. If you want to play the kids you trade the whole team except Jose and David. You get a bunch of nice prospects and become Tampa Bay for a number of years. Lots of promise and no wins.
This team justed traded Lastings for no one in particular. Is that the mark of a team that wants to wait for a player to learn to play in the majors? Lastings might be a pretty good player at one point. Right now he does not see the ball in the field so gets a late jump and botches a lot of plays in the field because he is not a defensive fielder. Late in the season he was not hitting the junk. So for off and on field issues this team traded him. I do not agree with that but they did. I understand it. You upgrade yourself defensively and get an adequate player to field one of the corners.
Last year Willie gave the #5 spot to a rookie and paid for it. This blog did not want to see Mike on the field again this year. But that is exactly what you have to do if you want your young players to grow.
Dave
Scott From Pelham, you have lost it, and need some help coping with your Mets rose colored glasses. Please take them off. It is alright to criticize your team when they deserve it. If things are not right then we as fans have a right to call it that way. You don’t have to rally around your team on every issue.
The fact is the farm system stinks, and it has proved out this winter. Apparently, all the scouts in baseball have filed reports with their respective teams that say the Met prospects are no good. Why in the world do you think the Mets have been brushed aside on every big pitcher they have tried to acquire ?
Say it like it is, it is okay. The farm system is a disaster, and everyone in baseball knows it. Believe me, if Omar thought Pelfrey and Humber were the answer he would not be looking so closely for other pitchers. He would simply go with them. Believe me, Omar cannot criticize these guys publicly because he has to worry about their market value, and their egos should they stay on the team. However, Omar’s actions show us he has no faith in these guys.
My problem is I am trying to be a realistic. I want the Mets to be competitive every year. I am tired of the boom & bust cycle this team has always had. I want a team that tries their best on the field every year and if they fall short I can live with it. The 2007 Mets annoyed me just as much from their bad attitude as from the choke job. Just because you have more money to spend than the next guy does not mean you will be better. Play the kids if they fail I can live with this as long as they come to play everyday.
One side note. The reason the Dodgers farm system is very good is because they have the same guy running it for over 10 years. Even when they fired the GM’s they kept the farm director. Every time the Mets hire a new GM they start all over. This sets you back in baseball just as it does in any business.
It is fine to play kids, if you have top prospect type kids. The Mets kids are a waste of time. They all stink. You saw Pelfrey last year. Another hyped up Mets prospect that stunk. This farm system has produced two players (Reyes and Wright) in two decades let’s not get into fantasy world thinking that they will produce good players like that. The rest of baseball says the Mets prospects stink. I don’t think they are all wrong. They need to build up the farm system for the future. For right now they cannot go with the kids. Maybe in the future not now, because they are simply not good enough.
I have one question for all you guys who say Willie won’t play the kids> Who brings the old guys on the team???
THE ANSWER IS OMAR!!!!!!!!!
Omar could have cut Green after a horrible Spring but no Omar kept him.
Omar could have left Gotay alone at second but brouyght in Castillo (I liked this move but the point is Omar brought in another old guy to keep a young guy off the Field)
Omar could have left Pelfrey on the team but sent him down.
Omar could have not brought up Lawrence, and forced Willie to pitch Humber vs the Phils in Spet but Omar brought up Lawrence.
Omar could have cut Mota but didn’t, could have cut Sele but didn’t etc etc etc….
I on;y hope the Mets don’t sign Lohse or Livan to even a one day contract.
Keith:
How about the Garden rockin last night for a game between Duke and Pitt. The Pirates are really behind the STeelers, and Pitt hoops in Western PA now. If they ever had a winning record I don’t think anyone would notice.