As for gate, you said gate, you didn’t say revenues.
As for Church being a good every day, if you looked at his stats which you proudly proclaim you do, you’d say to yourself, this guy has never had 500 ABs. He’s not an every day player. Not even on the worse offense in the NL.
As to waiting for results, if we have to wait for results what the heck are we going to argue about all Winter?

We all hope he’s a star in the making, but you know as well as I do with a fan base that is generally displeased with the trade and with the moves of the GM, and the collapse, and a fan base that loves to boo in a hurry, Church had better be one tough cookie because the first bad game at home, you know the reaction wil be BOOOOOOO BOOOOOOO etc…

Alou is a gamble, no doubt, but I think he’s worth it because he can still rake. Also, they’re not signing any corner OF long term with FMart and Gomez in the wings.

I still have some hope for Pelfrey and Humber. Signing a Silva or a Lohse to soak up some innings (maybe even a Josh Towers) wouldn’t be a bad idea for this year. They’d be replacing Glavine, who despite being our “ace” last year was nothing more than a middle of the rotation innings eater. However, I don’t know if I’d want those guys signed to long term deals.

As to the pitching staff, not only do they need to replace Glavine, but who is going to replace El Duque when he goes on his annual two or three month vacation ? Pelfrey is already in the rotation, and that is a weak link. Look, I am saying 85 wins which is not terrible, but it is hardly a playoff team or a championship contender.

Church and Schneider aren’t all star upgrades, but they’re solid role players who are going to be our 7 and 8 hitters. If Delgado doesn’t rebound this team is going to be the same one we had last year.

You guys keep ragging on Church like we just acquired Ryan Langerhans. Church may not be an All Star, but he’s a solid everyday RF. Remember, we don’t need him to produce like a tradition RF because our CF hits like a corner OF. I agree, the Milledge trade argument is getting old. And I am on record as being dubious personally about it, but looking at it objectively, I need to wait and see how Church does and Milledge develops.

Sloppy, I don’t mind being corrected, I took those stats from Forbes.com. If they’re false I apologize. Regardless, the Sox generate way more revenue than the Mets do through their merchandising. But I still think I’m right. The Red Sox gate receipts are higher than the Mets, which is all that matters, because as the dude above me pointed out, they charge a whole lot more for tickets than we do. The Mets should draw more foot traffic because they have about 15,000 more seats at Shea than Fenway does.

And Todd, I do agree with you. They need to replace Glavine’s innings. But I do think the lineup is fine. I believe Delgado will have a bounce back season. He may not be the Delgado of old, but I don’t think 30 homers is unreasonable. Everyone forgets, we had a TON of OF injuries last year: Alou, Beltran, Green, Endy, Milledge, Gomez, and even Ben Johnson all spent time on the DL last year. We had musical chairs at 2B and LoDuca, who was an important cog going into last season, was terrible. With Castillo solidifying 2B and the 2 hole, Delgado coming back stronger, Church solidifying RF (with Gomez/Easley sprinkled in against tough lefties), to go along with a solid core of Wright, Reyes, and Beltran, I don’t see that as being “fantasy” or waving a magic wand. I see it as the whole team bouncing back to ‘06 form after a really rough season.

The rotation is a different story. It has the potential to be a powder keg, which would of course have a trickle down effect on the pen. If Maine and Perez take a step back (which is likely, since pitchers tend to take a step back after they have a year where their innings increase like theirs did) and Pedro and Duque go down for a spell (again, likely), we’re pretty much screwed.

So there you go, I’m bullish on our lineup bouncing back, but bearish in regard to our staff. If I seem like I view this team through rose colored glasses, it’s only because I prefer to focus on the positives of what this team DOES have going for them, and they do have a lot of talent. I also think the general treatment of Church has been very unfair and that’s why I defend him so much. That and no one else seems to defend him at all.

You can’t just look at attendance figures. The Red Sox have the highest average ticket price in baseball. I can’t confirm this but I think the difference between their average ticket price (approximately $47.41) and the Mets average ticket price in 2007 (less than $28.43 – Cardinals had the 5th highest average ticket price) was enough for them to bring in more in gate receipts.

http://www.courierpress.com/news/2007/apr/03/you-pay-big-to-see-the-bosox/

I see you are one of these fantasy world fans. The bottom line is this. This team had the biggest collapse in baseball history, they now have had the worst off season they have had in years in years, and it will lead to a bad next season. If you think someone is going to wave a magic wand come next April, and everything will be right with the Mets again you are living in fantasy land. No better than an 85 win team. Remember that.

the Mets had a lower gate than the Red Sox ??? WRONG buddy.

Mets gate 2007 3.8 million 3rd behind NYY and LAD
Sox gate 2007 2.9 million 12 in MLB

The last time the Sox had a bigger gate than the Mets was 2004.

The Milledge trade argument is getting old. I just hope Church doesn’t pull a Bonilla and put those ear plugs on when he goes on the field!

To your post regarding negativity. The bottom line is as someone above posted the Mets were a 500 team for half the season. This was not a one month swoon – which is bad enuf. I posted back in early September that we lost. Most thought I was just a bad fan. But I saw this team just was not a team. Did not want it enough to just go out and take it regardless of who laces up the shoes for the day.

I agree there is a wealth of talent on this team, but it also has significant flaws. Unless we replace Glavine with an Innings Eater™ our pitching most likely will collapse again unless one of our two young pitchers can do the unexpected and give us 15 wins and not burn the pen and the two old guys give us enough innings not to burn the pen and Alou gives us more than 50 games and..

The offseason is still young and Omar really has not started yet. I would have wished we could have gotten the Japanese pitcher for our rotation or one of the FA OF to play in RF for us but that did not happen. We resigned our FA and game up Lastings for 2 players that I hope will do OK for us. Personally I think we could have done better for those two positions. Even though I am a critic of LM I do not think we should have gone that way.

Dave

You can take shots at me and tell me I live in a fantasy land or whatever, but this team still boasts 3 of the best players in baseball and has a solid overall team. Maybe they’re not the odds on best team they were last year, but they’re still one of the better teams in the NL.

And I’m not raving about Schneider and Church. I understand what kind of players they are. If I sound a bit loopy when speaking about them it’s because Mets fans are irrational when evaluating them just because Milledge was dealt for them. Both of those guys are better than their previous year’s counterpart. On this team Church and Schneider are going to bat 7th and 8th, respectively. We don’t need All Stars, we need people who will keep things moving. They’re role players who I believe will fill their roles.

It’s not that we’re doing somersaults over this team. I’m just as nervous about the rotation as anyone and I’m not about the put my house (well, if I had a house) up against this team making the playoffs, nevermind the world series. But to say this team sucks just isn’t accurate in my opinion.

And one more thing. Sloppy, you said this team was 10th in doubles. Well guess who had 43 last year, good for 8th in the NL and more than David Wright? That’s right, Ryan Church. Guess who was 13th among NL OFers in OPS? Ryan Church.

I’ll stop there because I wouldn’t want to get caught raving about Ryan Church. But seriously, below average? Him replacing Green makes this team worse? Really?

As for Schneider, I don’t care if his D has declined the last 3 years, he has to be an upgrade over LoDuca, who was a butcher back there. And LoDuca was also brutal at the plate as well. I think Schneider/Castro gives this team nice production at catcher next season.

Again, I understand these aren’t sexy moves. I know you guys would rather us have done what the Yankees did with Damon and sign Rowand to a ludicrous contract that would be an albatross in a year or two even though Rowand’s 162 game averages are eerily similar to what Church gave the Nationals last year.

Eckstein is popular cause he’s short, scrawny and white. He has absolutely no athletic ability. I have not been happy with the Mets offseason, but I am thrilled they didnt sign Eckstein. He is awful.

I don’t follow hockey. What a sham of a sport it is when some games have 3 points and some have 2. You get punished when a team in your division is in an ovetime because they get a point for existing. Its like if baseball gave you part of a win for losing in extra innings.

In the NL East they were third not first or second out of five teams in runs scored. They were 5th in NL in HRs. 10th in doubles. 7th in slugging….
In pitching they were 7th in ERA, quite the mediocrity I would say for having a genius for a pitching coach, 6th in WHIP .
So the fluke was if anything that they finished only one game out. We have actually been mediocre since 31 July 2006. We went thru the motions and everyone said it was because of the big lead and we slept thru most of 2007, or was that as good as this team is and was.

so you all like the team, fine I hope you’re right, but when the only move you make is to pick up 2 guys who both had below average numbers, you’ve made the team worse.
Rave about Chirch, but fact is in the prime of his career he couldn’t met the average for outfielders in theNL. Rave about Schneider but his D has worsened for the last 3 years and he has almost as little O as A-Hern.

You’re not really going out on a limb there. Even I would vote for Johan/Jones and I think Beltran is one of the best players in baseball. I just don’t see how that scenario is/was plausible at all. You needed the Giants willing to trade Lincecum for Beltran, then you needed to trade for Johan, resign him, and then sign Jones. That’s a lot of moving parts, some of which are dependent on other teams trading with us.

Is your second paragraph fact? If so, I’d like to see the revenue numbers you’re using. I got the below information from Forbes.com. The article came out 4.19.07 if you’re inclined to check it out.

Yankees:
Revenue:$302 mil
Operating Inc.: $-25.2 mil
Player Expenses: $219 mil
Gate Receipts: $155 mil

Mets:
Revenue:$217 mil
Operating Inc.: $24.4 mil
Player Expenses: $125 mil
Gate Receipts: $97 mil

Red Sox:
Revenue: $234 mil
Operating Inc.: $19.5 mil
Player Expenses: $146 mil
Gate Receipts: $155 mil

The Yankees are the only team that operate at a deficit. Plus, I don’t have the time to do a thorough read through, but after a quick glance I didn’t notice any mention of revenue from merchandise. Yankees and Red Sox merchandise sell like crazy everywhere. I also think NESN and YES are both worth more than SNY as of right now. The Yanks and Sox make money hand over fist. Not that the Mets don’t but the former two are money generating machines.

Lastly, the Sox spend as much as a they do to compete with the Yankees, who are their prime competition. No other teams operates like this. Even the Sox are +19.5 M for operating expenses. The Mets spend more money than any of their competition.

To say winning is secondary to profit is being somewhat melodramatic and also unfair. You can’t reasonably expect them to behave like the Yankees when A) No other team in baseball does what they do, not even the Red Sox and B) No other team in the NL East (their main competition) even approaches their salary level.

Plus, $$ spent does not equal wins. The Yanks have spent more than anyone and have been out of the playoffs the last two seasons. They barely made it this past season. And it was the guys making nothing (Hughes, Joba, Kennedy, and Melky) who bailed them out. The Rockies and D-Backs fielded teams of virtual unknowns and both made the NLCS. Basically, what matters most is making sound baseball decisions. Now, I’m not willing to fully endorse Minaya in this category because his baseball moves since the Nady trade have been dubious. However, I’m willing to be patient enough to see what 2008 brings. One thing’s for sure, I’m not going to complain about them spending money, because they spend enough to win.

Needless to say, I am on board with you. Last year was basically a fluke. And change for the sake of change usually turns out real bad.

As to Mets payroll. Yes, statiscally they have one of the higher payrolls, but if you take a closer look it is not as high as you think. As a percentage of revenue their payroll is lower than most teams. The Yankees spend almost $ 300 million in payroll, including payroll taxes, and if you divide that $ 300 million by their revenue, they are spending a lot more than the Mets, as are most teams. If you divide the Mets $ 115 million payroll by their revenue their payroll is actually lower than most teams. The Mets, especially with their new pricing, will have one of the highest profit margins if not the highest in baseball, because their payroll, although high, is not as high as it should be. The Mets could spend a lot more on salaries like say the Red Sox do, but they are more interested in turning a huge profit. Winning is secondary to profit with them.

Your first scenario is interesting, however farfetched. Stuff like that rarely happens. There is also a chance the Mets get Johan anyway, so they would have Beltran and Johan, which I think is better than Jones and Johan.

I’ll be blunt here, I hate your second scenario. Eckstein is not a good SS. He’s not. Trading Reyes would be worse than trading Kazmir was. You just don’t trade 24 year old All Star short stops who double as your leadoff hitter. Especially not for a pitcher. I don’t care who that pitcher is.

We obviously are looking at this from different angles, and that’s fine. I’m happy with a core of Wright, Reyes, and Beltran going into 2008 and beyond.

For all of its shortcomings and now vastly outdated design, I will miss Shea when it is gone because I grew up watching the Mets there. The cost to go to a ballgame now with your family is almost on par with taking them to a show, or, even, a percentage of taking them away for a weekend if you wrap in the parking, concessions, etc… It is too bad that days of just picking up for the average family and taking the kids down to a ballgame on a sunny spring or summer day are fastly disappearing. Baseball has gone from “America’s Game” to Middle class and above’s game. The increase in price, as was mentioned by some others is just to cushion for the future increases involved with the new stadium. I ask, however, one simple question. “Why do the Mets want you to pay now for a stadium you will not be able to appreciate until next year?” The almighty dollar continues to turn sports into more of a corporate game than the one that is played on the field.