I can’t take this stupid argument that you still need to see and hit the ball. Thats the dumbest thing Ive ever heard. We’re not talking about average joe taking steroids here. These guys are athletes, they already have a great ability to see and hit the ball. Now they have an ability to hit the ball harder and further.

Do you oppose a 14 yr old playing little league with 11 yr olds? Of course you would. Cuase he’s bigger, stronger and faster. Its the same thing with steroids.

This notion that steroids dont do much is stupid. Look at pro wrestlers or body builders. You think any of those guys could lift those amounts of weight naturally? Hell no. Steroids make savages. Leave it for the WWE not baseball.

plus Santana is rumored to only want to be traded to an East coast tema b/c he is building a house in Fla to live in US in the off-season. He doesn’t want long plane trips to Seattle or LA, etc.

I would expect that Seattle is only a candidate if they are just going to make a trade. They won’t sign Santana.

Look at some of the big names they’ve let go over the yrs-Griffey, Johnson, Arod.

A rotation of Johan, King Felix, and Washbourne wouldn’t be too bad.

Dbacks were rumored to be interested in the 3 guys-Haren, Bedard, Santana.

And the Angels were rumored to want to make a big splash and they did w/Hunter.

There are now only three teams that could pay 20-25MM per yr for 6-7 yrs, especially that Angels and LAD have spent $$ on others.

I don’t see anybody else unless it is some kooky nut owner like a Hicks at TR that would be able to pay those $ except Yanks, Sox, Mets.

I don’t see hw anyone can say Scneider had a better year than LoDuca even tho LoDuca was bad, Schneider hit in the 230s, had 6 HRs or something, had the worse throwing year of is career and did a lousy job wth his pithers.

But since we agree on everything else about the kids then I’m glad your Packers won but not glad about Marino being out of the books because he was a Pittsburgh kid.

Scott: whatever they are doing let us know if you feel ripped off or not. I know longer blame Omar for the failure to bring in tlaent. I believe he was leashed by the Wilpons.

Omar P: I always was anti-mgt. Even when I was mgt I was anti mgt.

However, what is different about us is patience. While I personally liked Milledge and thought he would eventually become a productive player (and as you note, I loved his energy… was it a coincidence that when he and Gotay were inserted into the lineup this team started playing better?) However, when you look at Church’s stats from last year, they show some promise. Sure, he probably won’t turn into Grady Sizemore, and with a gun to my head I would probably tell you Milledge has the better career. But like I said before, Church will give you what Rowand or Hunter would have given you this year. Those two were both coming off career years and have seen their fair share of the DL.

As for Church and Schneider being better in my opinion… it’s not opinion. Both were better than Green and LoDuca last season, which is who they’re replacing. Church is not replacing Milledge, he’s replacing Green.

Schneider is where we disagree big time though. I never liked LoDuca. IMO, he’s a big phony, and not because of his inclusion on the Report. All his carrying on and “grittiness” was one big act. He was also ridiculously overrated as a hitter. He has a career 99 OPS+, which isn’t exactly overwhelming. He’s a glorified singles hitter and everyone was enchanted by his ‘06 season. He’s terrible behind the plate, has no arm, and is a coward when it comes to blocking the plate. How many times did you see throws from RF bounce off his chest? He stinks. Schneider, while not a great hitter, did have a higher OBP than Mr. I Never Strike Out. And regardless of your thoughts on his defensive skills, he is miles better than LoDuca. Castro probably is better than both, but he has an arthritic back and you can’t go into the season with him as your starter.

Ok, sorry for the venom, let me take it down a notch, but LoDuca and the love affair with him, drives me crazy.

I will agree with the lack of creativity. Last season I thought their target should have been Meche. With no Aces available, you need to try and find the next Chris Carpenter. A dude (most likely an AL pitcher) with good stuff, but for whatever reason (injuries, the AL, whatever) couldn’t put it together. Meche would have been a great addition. I wasn’t as sold on Lily, but this past season showed us he would have been a great signing as well.

We also disagree on Alou. He’s worth the gamble because for a guy keeping a spot warm for FMart, he gives you incredible production for the price. If he can stay on the field (I know, a big if) he will hit. The guy could roll out of bed in February and hit.

I also don’t get wrapped up in this ticket raising business. Whatever, it’s a business. Simple supply and demand. I watch baseball because I love the game, I try not to worry about this peripheral stuff.

I think the team’s main problem is that they went for it the past two seasons and are now caught in between. This is likely the last hurrah for Delgado, Pedro, Wagner, and Alou. The kids seem to still be a year or two away. It feels like they’re in limbo. The reason why I am reserving judgment on the Milledge deal is because I want to see how Church and Schneider work out. They could solidify this lineup and play important roles on a contender. But they could also bomb terribly, and then I’ll join everyone else in trashing the trade. When I “defend” this trade it doesn’t mean I endorse it or like it, but I’m just trying to look at it from all angles and understand it. In a way I do, but again, I wanted to see Milledge flourish in NY because he is a NYC kind of player. But then again, we still have Gomez and FMart coming through the pipeline, and who knows, maybe Church for Milledge becomes our O’Neil for Kelly (a guy can dream).

Anyway, it’s December, my Packers are 11-2, Favre just broke Marino’s yardage record, my bday is tomorrow, and my last final is Tuesday. Other than some uncertainty with the Mets, life is good.

As always, love the debate, even if it gets heated at times.

You must be kidding, right Seaver? Legality aside???
TJ surgery is a repair of an injury. Lasik is a legal surgical procedure available to eveyone. Neither is harmful to your long-term health. Steroid and HGH can cause sterility, a wide range of serious side effects, and early death (see Lyle Alzado). They´re also illegal, and thus an immoral advantage over those who choose to compete fairly and honestly.

You must be kidding, right? Legality aside???
TJ surgery is a repair of an injury. Lasik is a legal surgical procedure available to eveyone. Neither is harmful to your long-term health. Steroid and HGH can cause sterility, a wide range of serious side effects, and early death (see Lyle Alzado). They´re also illegal, and thus an immoral advantage over those who choose to compete fairly and honestly.

sloppy: You are one crazy anti front office dude.

keith: I just don’t know what anyone sees in these add ons Minaya has made for the last 2 winters.

scoopcoop: Don’t be so sure its a 3 team race for Johan. I never saw the D-Backs mentioned as a Haren target, or the Angels as the team to sign Hunter.

1. Your quote about me: “Sloppy, you’re way too focused on how much these players get paid. May answer. I’m not too focused on their salary. I was very happy when they were going to give Milledge RF. He’s exciting, has an upside, has spunk. He doesn’t make much money. The guys you got and like, have no upside, have no spunk are losers who played for losers.
2 Your quote: Schneider and Church are better than LoDuca and Green. The former are both younger, coming off of better seasons, play better defense, and are LH, which brings a nice balance to the lineup.” My response: Its your opinion they are better. Its my opinion that Church is not as good as Milledge will be when he gets the opportunity to play every day in 2008, and Schneider is a bum,, not as good as Castro. He did not handle his pitching staff as well as a not ready for the bigs Flores did as demonstrated by the fact that the Nats ERA was almost a run higher with Schneider out there, and while in the past he was good at throwing guys out at 2nd he has slipped for 3 years in a row. So I find your facts to be bad opinions as you do mine.
3. Your quote @ the Wilpons: “If you think the Wilpons are cheap, then that’s your problem. But simply from a common sense perspective, what did you really expect them to do this offseason? There weren’t many moves that needed to be made in the starting lineup, and they’re still working on the #1 starter, which can not be added through free agency.”
My answer: They didn’t have to spend money on FAs. I’d hgave been fine if they said we’re going young. Pelf/Humber/Mulvey will fight for the rotation. Milz is in right, Gomez in left next year thats why we kept the golden oldie in left. We’re moving Fmart to first to replace Delgado in a year or so. Gotay deserves a chance. He got it. I’d have been fine. They could have made trades as many teams have done already for real talent, not below average guys.. Since you think Church and Schneider fills the lineup then my answer is so do guys from Brooklyn. They upgraded nowhere. They could have used creativity to fill positions, they could have overpaid to get one of the CFers to play right, or left and get rid of the cripple in left. They could have had Omar trade Milz when his value was high, not after the Omar policy of screwing with kids ruined his value. They could have paid a few bucks and kept Estrada for another team desperate for a trade or for insurance. They could have signed pretty good 2-3 guys last winter but let Omar play footsie with Boras/Zito until all options were signed, they could have paid draftees so the farm would have been better instead of kissing Selig’s you know what to keep bonuses down and act like the Royals. They could have told the fans they were as sorry as we are about 2007, and therefore wouldn’t raise prices by 20%. They say they are the lowest professional sport team to play in NY. The only comparison is the Yanks and unlike the Wilpons, the Steinbrenners’ go after the best and go after the flag every year. We don’t like them but I wish our owners had a desire to win at all cost. They could have followed the Angel lead and lowered beer prices. They could have followed the Dodger lead and have an area where the ticket includes all you can eat for the day/night. But no the Wilpons said you the fans will do anything and pay anything to say goodbye to Shea and hello to Citi so screw you!
20% is a very big increase for what has happened in the last several months..

I guess I did go off on you. Its the NFL’s fault. The Giants should be playing a day game. And its Mother Nature’s fault. I’m iced in. We had quote an ice storm here in middle of PA

Keith Its a always a pleasure to disagree with you. Maybe will meet up in a park someday.

Mets ticket prices going up? Time to get that bigcsreen TV I’ve been thinking about.

The Dodgers will announce the signing of Hiroki Kuroda to a three-year, $35.2 million contract today.

Mets, Yanks, Sox are it. Sox still don’t want to give up Lester and Ellsbury and Yanks don’t want to give up Hughes and Kennedy.

Still have hope Mets can get it done.

If you think the Wilpons are cheap, then that’s your problem. But simply from a common sense perspective, what did you really expect them to do this offseason? There weren’t many moves that needed to be made in the starting lineup, and they’re still working on the #1 starter, which can not be added through free agency.

And FYI, the Mets payroll has been increasing every single year.

It makes sense, after all they got rid of Glavines
salary and Green and LoDuca and Mota, and Alou makes quite a bit less this year, and the Marlins pay a chunk of Delgado and replaced them with the high salaried (not) Church/Schneider and Stokes, so yes they need 20% because they won’t have a walk up at all this year with the boring additions and the lack of fire and heart they want on the field. Hopefully, some of the plan people will tell Wilpon to shove it. Citi Field will be around a long time fellas. You don’t have to go in 2009. Look at the first modern park, Camden Yards. Packed for a few years. Now its half empty. The Wilpon greed will only last as long as we allow it to. He invested when the place was empty in 2002-3 and as soon as we packed the place, the team talent level stopped mattering to the Wilpons. The only time the Wilpons care is when the park is empty!
Maybe I’ll stop blasting Omar. Its now obvious he has to work with a small market payroll.