FIVE ORE GAMES WON WOULD BE AWESOME. and the Wilpons would end up richer yet!

I want those 5 more games JD.

As a fan I want to win. I feel no sympathy for the rich guys who use the teams as their toys. I don’t beleive the Wilpons are going broke. I also think that whatever they pay for a star they will get back in shirts, higher ratings so more ad money, Think many kids want an Estrada jersey? Well how about a Mets Santana jersey for Christmas?

I think Haren and Bedard should cost more than Santana since the A’s /O’s have less need to trade them in the near future.
But it is a moot point since Omar made the big trade with the brand spanking new RAYS. Pretty soon the Wilpons’ will change our name to hide us as well.

• The financial package to sign him long term would be significantly less and the saving better spent elsewhere.
• Haren is younger.
• The yearly salary would be much higher for Santana. Last year the difference was almost roughly $10.5 million more for Santana. Assuming about the same this season, and both make 33 starts, would Santana really give you that much more production? If Santana wins 20 games (which he’s only done once) and Haren wins 15, is five more wins really worth the $10 million difference?-JD

they may just be conflicting reports – but I read somewhere else that the O’s are not looking to dump salary. Rather, they are trying to rebuild with prospects, and are willing to eat the salary of guys like R Hernandez in a trade to get those prospects. Doesn’t really fit the Mets desires of saving the real chips to trade for pitching…

If I’m the A’s/O’s I say I should get as much as the Twins b/c Haren and Bedard won’t cost their new team as much in $ b/c they are signed for a couple yrs. Plus if I’m the A’s/O’s I play it coy b/c I don’t have to trade these guys b/c they can’t walk just yet.

I would expect these teams will wait to see what the Twins get for Santana and then will price there guys based on that and will ask for the same.

My fear is the Mets will end up w/a guy like Blanton and overpay for him. And eventhough he does eat inn, he is not a swing and miss P. Hence, his effectiveness overtime may not be sustainable.

I’d rather get L Hernandez as the inn eater and then get one of the three-Haren, Bedard, Sanatana-for lowest price.

I vote for Bedard b/c the O’s seem more likely to do something dumb and they are reported to want to dump some salary (like the marlins w/Beckett).

Hence, the Mets should pick up R Hernandez’s contract (like the Sox did w/M Lowell) as part of a deal for Bedard. It was reported that Omar did talk to the O’s at the GM meetings. And that the O’s want to dump salaries and can’t find a suitor for Tejada. And Omar did say that Estrada only added “depth” to C. So, maybe this will work out.

dave: I agree, Santana should be the first call. As for the postseason, Santana’s record has not been stellar, however I won’t be the one to make that argument. We seem to differ in our opinions of Milledge and Pelfrey, however I was just looking at the team as it stands right now. And right now, Milledge is our RF and Pelfrey is our 5th starter.

I agree with you. However I still think you look at Santana first and Haren second. If it does not appear you can get Santana you make a play for Haren and close the deal if you can.

My point also goes into the post season. I think Santana is probably the superior pitcher for the next several years. Any team has a shelf life. If/When you get to the post season a dominant pitcher will prevail against all comers. Merely very good pitchers sometimes lose.

Many times in the post season the stud goes out 3 times a series and their team wins all 3. That is why you pay the price. I think this team has enough pieces to think that way. If you think the team has too many holes you take a step back.

Personally, I do not see Lastings as my current starting RF, nor do I see Pelfrey as the #5. I do see Heilman as a valuable major league asset. So of the players you mention I think of it as a valuable major league reliever + 2 high AAA pieces for possibly the best pitcher in the game today.

Dave

Any chance of the Mets acquiring Blanton and Harden rather than Haren alone. I would imagine the A’s would like to keep Haren since he is signed to a palatable contract. With Blanton approaching arbitration and Harden’s value diminishing due to his injury history, he would probably prefer to deal them for a haul that could be similar/slightly larger to what he could get for Haren.

For the Mets, Blanton replaces Glavine’s innings while providing an upgrade in performance (in my opinion) and could be seen as a safer move that adds to the young core of Maine and Perez in the rotation. Harden would be a bit of a gamble (assuming he passes a physical) but the Mets could end up catching lightning in a bottle with him. I would think Peterson would be up for the challenge in trying to keep this guy on the mound.

Say the Mets sent: Milledge, Heilman, Pelfrey, Gotay and a lesser prospect like a Caleb Stewart, Mike Carp, or Carlos Muniz. That’s a MLB ready CF, 2 SP (assuming they use Heilman in the rotation), 2B (who could platoon with Ellis), and a potential late bloomer like Stewart/Carp/Muniz. Mets would still hang onto Gomez, Martinez, Mulvey, Niese, Guerra, Humber, Smith, etc.

We all know Santana is better than Haren. You could argue he is the best pitcher in all of baseball (an argument you would probably win), but is the value he could provide the Mets significantly more than what Haren could provide? Remember, we’re projecting how both will perform from here on out. As JD stated he averages 17-7 per year. Rounding down, Haren has averaged 14-11 over the past 3 seasons. Now 3 wins is nothing to scoff at, as we saw, one extra win would have earned the Mets a playoff berth, and 3 extra wins would have earned them a playoff berth by 1 game.

However, the reality is that Haren is younger and still on the upside of his career, about to enter his prime, while Santana is currently in his prime. Who knows how long his prime will last, but it should be mentioned Johan does have an injury history where Haren, to my knowledge, has none.

Now to the crucial aspect of this decision. The Mets do not have unlimited resources, no team does (despite what you may believe about the Yankees, they too have a tipping point… we just don’t know what that is.) In order to acquire a pitcher, the Mets will have to trade players who possess both current and future value to the franchise. Assuming Milledge, Heilman, and Pelfrey as the standard package you are dealing, as the team currently stands, your starting RF, your setup man, and your 5th starter. This is all for one pitcher. This means you will have to fill 3 holes by acquiring either pitcher. Despite what your own personal beliefs regarding how “replaceable” those 3 players are, they still need to be replaced.

From all indications I’ve read, this package alone will not get the Mets Santana. Plus, they will have to shell out serious cash to sign him long term. This reduces the team’s capabilities of filling the 3 holes opened up by the trade, and further inhibits them from improving the team in season and beyond. Trading for Haren would cost less in prospects and dollars, improving the overall flexibility to make moves at the trade deadline this season, and next offseason.

In shot, I agree with JD. The better Santana only provides a negligible upgrade over Haren when you consider what the Mets need to give up to acquire him. Haren is still an upgrade to the rotation, and also affords the team more flexibility to fill: the holes created acquiring him, to improve the team at the deadline, and to improve the team beyond ‘08.

From reading the papers it doesn’t look like we will be able to land Santana anyway so I think Omar needs to talk to the three teams about what they want for their pitchers and go with the one that will dance.

On Andy – I do not think he can hit. At least he hasn’t shown he can. So if someone will take him in a package I have no issues with that.