Another thought on Santana
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- November
- 28
The Twins say their first priority is keeping Johan Santana, but considering he already rejected an $80 million package. Another thing to keep in mind is the Twins don’t have to trade him.
If they aren’t bowled over, they could hang on to him and see if the price increases during the season before the trade deadline.
This entry was posted
on Wednesday, November 28th, 2007 at 6:37 pm by John Delcos.
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I have confidence that if Omar feels Santana is too far away he will move on and get the pitcher we need.
I’m sure that with Stokes in play, Santana is ours?
Dave Are you Omar’s agent or something? He thinks he already got the pitcher we need. I do have to thank Omar. I won’t have to spend all my $$ going on Met road trips next year. I’ll see just as much talent at the Altoona Curve games.
Maybe the Twins resign Santana now? Who knows?
It would be nice to see them retain him, it would be a good sign for baseball. Twins should be able to resign him. They have a lot of young, cheap, and controllable talent in their rotation with Liriano, Slowey, and Bonser.
The guy they should be looking to deal is Nathan. He’s going to be 33 and could probably bring back a nice group of players.
Keith I agree with you on this one completely!!!
But its starting to look like a Marlins’ fire sale is going to transpire.
“Another thing to keep in mind is the Twins don’t have to trade him.”
John, I can say the same for Haren and Bedard too. Especially Haren since I believe he has three yrs left on his contract.
But I heard on the radio that Bedard is a FA after 08. Can aynone confirm?
Someone stated Haren has had injuries? When?
And does anyone know why Bedard was on the 60-DL at the end of 07?
If I’m not mistaken I think JD was referring to Harden’s injury history, not Haren’s.
Not sure about Bedard’s free agent status, but I’m fairly sure he was shut down with an oblique injury. Also, I’m fairly certain he had Tommy John surgery at some point as well.
The twins owner is very cheap.
And it has been reported that Nathan will be traded-to the Brewers. He is a FA after 08 and has stated he wants out if Santana goes.
Bedard missed a whole season-in 03 and only pitched 2/3 inn in 02. That must have been the TJ. B/c of that missed season I understand he will be a FA after 08. I guess it counts torward ML time.
Good to see the injury in 07 was not arm related.
It does not look like Haren has ever been injured.
Given the TJ for Bedard and that he has not been able to go 200+ inn., I wonder if Haren is the best choice among the three.
Sloppy,
I agree with you that Omar made some bad bets last year, but I am not nearly so negative as you in my assessment of our GM.
He came in a built a solid foundation through trades and FA pickups that made us a contending team very quickly. Last year was a huge disappointment. But not too long ago we were a dead franchise and look at us now.
My point being that Omar seems to make his decisions quickly and as has been pointed out by others makes a pitch and moves on when the other party does not want to dance. That in part is how we got Paulie a few years ago after we let Piazza go.
I am looking for the same this year. Everyone in baseball knows we need and want pitching. The NY papers act as if Santana is the Yanks for the taking. If Omar makes a pitch and the other side is not ready to deal, I expect the Mets to very quickly go hard after option #2.
We already did this with the catcher. Supposedly we went looking for Posada and when he went with the Yanks we went after Torrealba. Something happened and Estrada fell into our lap.
Dave
I was just getting ready to watch the Knicks lose and I saw your post dave, so I’ll have to disagree with many points…
I think Omar’s kudos about turning the franchise around are partially over rated. I give him lots of credit for getting Beltran and Pedro, but the kid stars were there when he showed. Reyes and Wright were signed before Omar came. Our setup man was signed before Omar came. I then give him credit for getting Delgado and LoDuca in the Marlins fire sale. BUT, then he went to sleep and has not made a really good move since. He got Me me me I blow saves in big games Wagner and that’s about it since the Winter of 05-06.
Moves fast?? Did he move fast last Winter to replace Pedro. NO my friend he did not. He wined and dined Zito/Boras for weeks on end while every other FA starter was signed and he ended up getting Jorge and Chan Ho…. I think he moved so slow he slept thru the Winter.
Catcher: He didn’t move fast. The only reason we got a catcher of very limited value was because the other GM made an offer even Omar couldn’t refuse. If you are pleased with Estrada as our man behind the plate so be it. To me having a body is OK for the Pirates, not for us.
I do agree with you on one front. I also expect the same this Winter. I expect Omar to do nothing that helps the team improve. He already negated the benefit of dumping Mota by buying Stokes.
You know dave, you can make the same exact case for the hated Steve Phillips. He came in, quickly built a winner and then let it self destruct. I think his right hand man OMAR learned very well from his mentor. Except for one thing. Phillips got us to the World Series.
Sloppy,
Glutton 4 punishment are we? I used to be a Knick fan until the owner and Zeke decided to build a dysfunctional team. They will not get better till they fire the coach, GM and owner.
Now on to the Mets.
I will recap what you already know.
By going after Pedro we were able to land Beltran ( and a few others I cannot remember ). He went out and hired Willie to be the captain of the ship who instilled needed discipline to the team and focused on fundamentals and defense. He picked up a bunch of crucial role players and parlayed broken players into crucial members of the team – Ollie,Maine, Sanchez. Got some more players one of whom spurned us the year before – Wagner, Delgado, Lo Duca. Under his tenure the young players you mention above blossomed. Remember Reyes was a disappointment because of his yearly injuries. He also picked up Nady who he felt he had to give up when Sanchez got hurt. He also signed Humber and FMart drafted Pelfrey, Mulvey, etc.
All the above happened in a few short years. Last year not withstanding we have a team that you can say has a shot at winning the division every year. I believe that the year we went to the WS was a fluke. We were good , yes. But we got lucky and got torched by the Yanks. Although I was happy we got that far I felt we were not the best team in the NL that year. Two years ago we were the best team but did not make it to the dance.
I do not believe Omar is done and so respectfully disagree with you on your assessment of his performance.
Dave
dave; I couldn’t find the knicks. lucky me. I give omar credit for his first early burst, but the good omar died when Duaner was in a taxi accident. The guy who replaced him has done a lousy job.
do you really give omar credit for reyes not being hurt lately? Wow? you really love the guy.
Why were we lucky in 2000? Our outfield was very weak but our infield was awesome and our manager was creative, maybe too creative. And we had an ace in Hampton and we had Leiter who was still good. And even though I didn’t like Bordick ar least Phillips filled a hole caused by injury at SS, unlike Omar who knew in Sept 06 that he had lost his ace and replaced him with Jorge Sosa or was it Chan Ho Park, or was it Vargas, or Lawrence. It certainly wasn;t with Lilly, Meche Zito etc.
Why do you give him credit for drafting guys who have done nothing in the bigs? Every teams drafts players. We’ll see over tie what he does with the draftees. So far his results are no trades and one pitcher with a very poor big league resume.
The ollie trade was a terrible trade. I live in PA. Everybody west of the Susquehana River knew the Pirates had given up on Ollie. Omar could have had him for a Mota, for cash, for a bobblehead doll. But he gave up a very good player in Nady, on e who plays first and could have transitioned there when Delgado’s contract was allowing the kids to develop normally vice this u and down stuff we have witnessed. It was a bad trade.
But the bottom line dave is what happened to this man who got the Sanchez/ and the Maine’s who has turned into the guy who gets the Ben Johnson’s, the Vargas’ the Adkins’ the Newhan’s. where’s the old guy.
We should target the A’s, I think Beane is more likely to trade away guys than Santana getting traded. The Twins could always keep him, and try to actually win next year with Liriano back, so who knows, or deal him at the deadline. As for the A’s, we should gut the farm and trade for Haren and Huston Street, the perfect guy to take over the 8th inning role and be our closer of the future. A mega package of Heilman, Gomez/Milledge, Pelfrey/Humber, Joe Smith, Gotay/a lower tier guy, maybe Mulvey.
Sloppy: Phillips also signed Appier to that insane contract after losing Hampton. Then flipped it for Mo Vaughn. The only reason this was not a total disaster is because insurance paid the last couple of years on his contract.
I do agree he should have looked closer at Lilly but who knew that the Giants would be that stupid with Zito. Everyone thought the Royals were crazy on Meche. They gambled and he turned in a career year. Lets see what happens this year.
On Nady maybe they overpaid but R. Hernandez did turn into a draft pick, and if you offered me Nady for Ollie Perez today ( based on 2007 ) I would never make that trade.
Yes Omar had a bad year, but at least the Mets do not have any horrible contracts on the roster. Show is not big enough money to count. ( I am talking Carl Pavano bad )
This may be a little off topic but do the Mets and Yankees ever compete for the same free agents? In the 30 years of free agency the only real competition between the two was for Dave Winfield in 1981. But usually they go for different players..the Mets tried for Vladimir Guerrero, the Yankees went for Gary Sheffield. 15 years ago the Mets went for Bobby Bonilla, the Yankees went for Danny Tartabull. Now you read and hear a lot about the Yankees going after Johann Santana while the Mets while talking briefly about him are concentrating more on Haren and Harden. Do these organizations just see things differently or are the Mets in awe of the Yankees revenue and heritage?
Hank Greenberg had some nasty things to say about how Tom Yawkey was in awe of the Yankees in the 1950s and wouldn’t make any trades with Greenberg’s Indians. What good did that do The Olde Towne Team?
Everyone should forget Santana
With their acquisition of an OF (Young from the Rays) and their loss of a SP (Garza), Twins don’t need an OF (which the Mets might have been able to give them) but do need a SP (which the Mets don’t have a good enough replacement for Twins)
On to Haren, I hope.
Read on MLB Trade Rumors that they also received a 24 year old CF as well, so they won’t even need Gomez.
Wow Scott. The Mets don’t hahve any bad contracts. Thst really is totally irrelevant unless I’m in the Wilpon family. We won’t get any bad contracts in the future eiter as we watch every one go elsewhere. NO RISK, NO GAIN.
How long have you guys been talking a trade for an A’s pitcher. A month, 6 months, a year. Only Met fans in big market land are trained to be happy that their team doesn’t get the best, doesn;t even improve when filing holes.
Every move should be to make your team a little better at the minimum, not to have a body show up like the worst of small market teams do.
So Scott Phillips made a bad sign, in etrospect at leaat he got Hampton in the first place and he knew when to let him go, So he got Appier, If he didn’t get Appier would the Wilpons have lowered your beer price?
You all keep congratulating Omar for all the work he did up until 18 months ago. In most businesses when your work becomes unsatisfactory you don’t get retained because you once did good.
I read this morning that the Twins are asking for Reyes as PART of the Santana deal. Time to look elsewhere for pitching unless this was just a move on their part to drive the ante up on what the Mets and other teams will offer.
Personally, I would never trade a position player of Reyes’ caliber for any pitcher. However, playing devil’s advocate, if the Mets wanted to land Santana without having to give up a boatload of guys then trading Reyes would be the way to go about it.
This would also leave a very large hole at SS and at the top of the order.
Again, to reiterate, I would not do this. The Mets should look elsewhere for pitching (Harden & Blanton).
Dan,
I don’t know the answer to your question but perhaps the Yankees ( in the past 20 yrs at least ) just outbid everyone so it appears we do not compete.
It seems as if both NY teams targeted Santana. It also appears as if what we have to offer for him is insufficient. So in our best interests we should drop out and focus elsewhere. Just because we are not in a public bidding war for Santana does not mean we did not try and get him.
Let the Yanks and Sox duel it out for Santana.
Mets should get Haren or somebody else of that ability to fill the top while they are still waiting for a price to be set by Twins for Santana. And get L hernandez for 2 yrs to fill the bottom.
Since this is the Hot Stove time of the year, how about this? If the “Evil Empire” is able to get Santana through trade, how about the Mets offerring a two year, twenty eight millon offer to Pettitte and see what happens? You will get another 200 inning, lefthander who is younger than the one that left. Just a little creative thinking.
Another pt about Twins getting Young.
I know he has issues, but the guy is a proven, albeit one yr, ML player with great upside. If this is what it takes to get a P (Garza) who is expected to be good but is unproven, I think getting Haren or Bedared is gonna be very pricey and even Blanton too.
I just got a feelin that the Mets are gonna way overpay for a Haren or even a Blanton. I still am not convinced that the organization has changed from its up-and-down good-to-bad cycle where the good last 1-2 yrs and the bad last 4-5 yrs and that we will look back at 06 as the top of the good cycle.
I hope I’m wrong but jobs (Omar’s job) could be on the line if the Mets are so-so in 08 and you wonder if the whole farm will be mortgaged.
I’m resigning myself to an off season of disappointment. The writing is on the wall with the lack of love of the Mets prospects compared to prospects on the Yankees, Dodgers, Angels, D’Backs, and Red Sox. I see Omar coming out of the winter with no one that can be a number one starter. We’ll have to rely on Pedro being healthy the entire year and the hope that Pelfrey or Humber can develop into the very worst, a number 3 starter. Wake me up when it’s March 31st. :-(
Another pt about Twins trade.
Most of the “in-the-know” analysis beleives the Twins got the better of the deal. You have to wonder if this is b/c the Rays need for pitching was/is so great (although now w/Shields, Kazmir and garza it looks pretty good) that they were willing to overpay.
Or the twins, who are a much better org than the Rays, fleeced the Rays.
Given the Mets history of being a sub-par org, you have to be concerned that they will get fleeced for a P or in desparation will overpay.
Steve,
who knows maybe it will be the best thing (in the long run) if the Mets don’t act desparate and hold onto all of these guys.
Maybe for once, the Mets have developed more than the occasional decent player.
Of course if the other BB people think the Mets prospects are only so-so, you have to give alot of credence to it and we will be sitting here, as I said above, reflecting back to 06 as being the peak in the cycle.
stillsane,
It seems unlikely pettite would do that, but nobody including anyone who posts here, would turn down an extra 15MM or so.
Of course the Yanks would just add a thrid yr, like they added a 4th yr for Posada.
DG – The Mets and Yankees were both going after Posada. Also, Santana is not a free agent…yet.
According to this guy, we are somehow the favorites for all of Willis, Blanton, Haren. http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ti-trades112807&prov=yhoo&type=lgns
couple of points.
1) even if Omar has written off Santana, he needs to keep an oar in the water. Always possible he could fall trhough to the mets, but mostly so that the other GMs know their is competition.
The mets only have so many prospects to trade, and spots to fill, so if say Beane hopes to pry Milledge away, he runs the risk of the Mets making another deal first (Santana,Bedard, etc.).
Now, if you are the only shop in town with the goods, you are in control.
2) I wouldn’t mind if they did nothing major, but I also think the team is better than some other fans do. If they say sign Colon, and/or manage to make a fair and reasonable trade for a solid middle rotation starter, they should be OK with SP. The pen will sort itself out without major deals (from the stock on hand, or a minor move).
But best of all, I really think Milledge is going to bust out big time next year, and make a lot of people (fans, media, Gms) look dumb.
I posted on Cerrone’s blog yesterday stats that showed, across the board, Milledge actually hit better than Young last year, just in 30% of the ABs (and mostly 8th hole). OPS, OBP, SLugging, HR/ab all favored Lastings.
It was only a year ago that articles were written comparing the 2, debating which was the best hitting prospect in the minors, and at best it was a toss up. And Delmon is certainly the real head case/problem child.
Turn Gomez + Humber + gotay + ? (but not Milledge, Pefrey or Martinez) into a solid #3 guy (Blanton could work), get a #5/6 with upside (Colon yes, Livan no) and they will be solid.
Pedro/Maine/Perez/Blanton/Colon, with Pelfrey, Mulvey and El Duque waiting in the wings is a whole lot better than what they had for most of last year, with nary a Park or Lawrence in sight.
Spig
Nice to think we are the favorites but w/those other teams mentioned, it is hard to imagine the Mets pkg would be as good.
I hope this guy is right. These guys who right this stuff remind me of marketing people. Lots of talk w/no facts.
stick
Unfortunately I think Blanton will cost more than what you propose. It has been reported in the past that Beane wants Milledge and Heilman for Blanton.
I don’t like Colon-too many injuries. I would hope L Hernandez being w/his bro El Duque would make a decent #5.
anyone having issues with metsblog.com? the page hasnt loaded all day. :(
Matt seems to have killed a 2nd server host with Metsblog.
And, in my proposal, I wouldn’t actually trade all those guys for Blanton (Haren yes). And Blanton isn’t close to being worth Milledge + heillman. IMO, he IS heilmann.
Blanton was just one example. There are plenty of other guys that would serve the same purpose. Garza probably would have.
So instead of dancing with Beane, Omar should be talking to SF on their mix of guys, Pitt (Snell?), stuff like that.
I have no idea what it would take to get, say, Snell. Or what Pitt needs. Say it was Gomez and Gotay, but Snell could slot right into the middle of the rotation, making a strong young core? Would you make that move, to strengthen the team now, for nothing that will help in the near future?
I would.
Just ideas here. I hope that Omar isn’t so fixated on 1-2 guys that he either misses all chances to actually improve the team, or he ends up wildly overpaying for a certain name.
I would rather get 3 solid guys that perform well, even if you have to look at the numbers to realize how good they really are, instead of one big name “splash” guy, where they aren’t always as good as their reputation (name value).
Willis comes to mind. Tons of guys pitched way better the last couple of years, but he still gets mentioned as a potential ace on the market. I would rather pay less for the no-name brand alternative and get more wins out of the deal!
Scoop, most “in the know” guys are more like “know nothings.” Aaron Gleeman, operator of The Hardball Times and a huge Twins fan, wrote a lengthy breakdown on his blog about the trade. He believes the Rays made out and the only way the Twins win this deal is if Delmon turns into a perennial all star, which he is somewhat dubious of due to his reluctance to take a walk.
Everyone is too focused on Garza and Delmon, but the Twins also sent Bartlett in the deal and a promising young reliever as well.
Keith, good point that sometimes it is the “throw ins” that make or break a deal. Something to keep in mind for some posters when making their fantasy trade proposals, where they casually throw in 2/3 guys like Martinez, Humber, Gotay, whatever.
Short version on my often lengthy posts:
Omar promised an ace/front line starter. He never said that you would have heard of him before, or if you did, that you realized he was going to be your ace!
Agreed Stick. People are very quick to dismiss players like Gotay, Castro, or even guys like Estrada and Milledge. These are generally the kinds of players who make a good team a great team and a great team an elite team.
Guys like Pedroia, Youkilis, Ellsbury, and Lowell weren’t thought to be stars, but they plays important roles for the Sox this year.
Same goes for guys like Spiezio, Molina, and Iguchi on the Cardinals a few years back. Usually, these types of players have more value to your team than what you’ll get back in a trade.
I have a feeling that we’re not going to be involved in any big deals and will piece together a team for 2008… I think that we’re getting our hopes up big time…
Keith when you talk about the guys we never heard of before there was one big thing the Cards in 06 and the Sox last year has and that was an ACE.
stick: Why did Omar promise an ace?? Because he needs an ace to win. He doesn’t need 3,4,5 guys. If you think this team needs average then why make a trade. I’m sure that between Pelfrey, Humber, Mulvey you will find average from one of them at the least. You guys want to make trades that don’t improve. The team needs to be better not the same. and why in the world do you think the pen will sort itself without a major move when Omar gutted any hope for a pen from the system. Same pen same results. 4 guys who will all be burned out too soon in the season.
Keith: Guys like Castro and Gotay can make a good team a great team. But guys like that also make an average team a below average team because you use them too much. You try to turn a part timer into an regular and you are in deep trouble.
Omar didn’t kill the pen last year…willie did. Why was sele taking up a spot in the pen if he wasn’t being used? We all know he wasn’t very good, and that’s why he wasn’t used, but why keep him around then. When starters averaged 7 inning plus, there was a need for a mop up man. The mets don’t need that now. Bring in anybody that willie will actually use, and that would knock about 10 innings each off of the rest of the pen. An ace would be great, but I think it would be just as beneficial to not give away roster spots to guys we will never use.
Stick’s statistics are ridiculous. Milz played part time, and Young played every day. Milz was protected from guys Willie thought he’d be overmatched against. Young got no luxury to rest against star pitchers.
I should stop reading the papers and the blogs. It’s getting depressing to be a Met fan. If Omar doesn’t get a #1 this year, the Mets will have to have everything break right next year to get into the playoffs. This means:
1. A healthy and excellent Pedro Martinez for the full year
2. A total recovery and return to pre injury form for Duaner Sanchez
3. A much healthier year from Moises Alou
4. Pelfrey/Humber finally acheiving their prowess
5. Milledge developing into the player we thought we had which was another top hitter in the mold of D.Wright and Jose.
Damn, no wonder i’m depressed about this team!
I would rather have a solid all around team than have an Ace and a team with holes. The Braves had two aces and finished third. Unloading all of your prospects is how you end up with part timers in full time roles.
As for Castro and Gotay, my point wasn’t that they should necessarily play everyday, but that they are important to a team’s success and are often overlooked by fans and the media.
But to be honest, why couldn’t Castro and Gotay start? Look around the league. The catching position stinks. Henry Blanco is the Cubs starter. Castro, if proven to hold up over an entire season, is certainly talented enough to be better than half the catchers in the league. And Gotay is only 24 years old. Utley didn’t blossom until 26. Kent was a late bloomer as well. Let’s not be so quick to label Gotay a bench player. He has a nice stroke and quick hands at the plate. If he gets his D together he could be a solid everyday 2B.
You all need to look up the definition of patience.
Milledge is only going to be 23. Pelfrey 24. I think Humber 24/25, but he lost a year to TJ surgery, and the second year is usually the big bounce back season.
Wright and Reyes are the exception, not the rule when it comes to young players. It’s rare for a player to come up and excel from the get go. And let’s be honest, Reyes wasn’t exactly an All Star at first either.
Everyone is so quick to downgrade Fernando Martinez but they forget he is 18 years old and in AA. Most kids are still in high school!
Mel – Yeah, but on the flip side, Milledge had to bat 8th, ahead of a pitcher, and Young didn’t. He also had to sit on the bench so he never had a chance to get into a “nice little rythym”, and missed a block of time.
I would bet that if he played everyday his numbers would be just as good, overall, even if he had bad days against a few studs. Especially if they stuck him in the 2 hole and left him there.
With all that, he still had an OPS 10% higher than young. I do admit I don’t know where young hit in the lineup, but it is less important in the AL w/o the pitcher.
Hey Stick, Fan Graphs has the Bill James projections for ‘08. Stings is projected to hit 18 dingers and drive in over 80… sign me up for that.
I forgot that in ‘06 the Cards had an Ace. Carpenter right? The dude the Mets beat up on?
Or was it Suppan, the solid middle rotation guy that carried the team?
An Ace is nice, but only if the rest of the team is still good enough to win. And 5 John Maines will win you a lot more games than 1 Santana + 4 guys like Silva/Livan.
Steve, the mets didn’t have any of the 5 things you mentioned happen last year and missed the playoffs by 1 game. To think all 5 need to happen to have a shot is stupid. For example, If pedro is healthy and good, and milledge develops into a stud, will we really need any more from alou this year than last to be a better team? Plenty of things didn’t work out this year for the Mets, but that happens to every team every year. That’s why they play every day. Everything seemed to break right 2 years ago, just about everything went wrong last year. Why don’t you relax and let the off season play out before you have a break down.
I will be really bummed if LM gets traded. 20/80 is probably conservative if he plays everyday, and doesn’t hit 8th.
Ski: I agree that they won 88 games with just about everything that could go wrong going on, and they still had to have a terrible 2 weeks to finish 1 game out (plus if Phillie hadn’t played over their heads, it still wouldn’t have mattered!~)
Even without a big splash, this team could easily win 90 games, and still have a solid talent base of young guys to build on.
And if the prospects are so down now, why not give them a chance to show some improvement? Why trade when their value is down?
To all you Mets fans who are losing your mind over our prospects being garbage. From Keith Law’s chat (and perhaps a reason why Omar is so quick to NOT trade these guys):
“Ridiculous. I’ve seen that mentioned in some NY papers, and it’s absurd. Carlos Gomez is very highly-rated within the game. Fernando Martinez (who seems to be their one untouchable) is still one of the top 10-12 prospects in the game. Pelfrey hasn’t even turned 24 yet, and he’s still mid-90s with plus sink. I have no idea why it’s fashionable to bash the Mets’ young players, but they have plenty of assets to go get another starter. Whether they choose to part with them or not is the question. ”
Omar has made it more than obvious that he wants to get a front end starter at all costs. Leaking to the media that the mets prospects aren’t matching up with other teams is probably trying to get Omar to up his offer. His intrest in a front end guy has to make opposing GM’s think he will. I have to think that the offers the team has out there are quite competitve, or there wouldn’t be as much buzz leaked about these guys. If the mets didn’t have the right guys to get the deal done in some combo, There just wouldn’t be this much buzz.
Ski: Ever think that the window of opportunity closed? That is the gut feeling that I get with this team. Even last year when they were in the lead, I never got the feeling last year that this team would have been a true contender if they had made the playoffs anyway…their record in the second half of the season was 39 & 35 and as we all know were struggling mighty down the stretch. Even though I am glad he is gone, you do need to replace Glavine with someone that can at least duplicate what he did (until the last 3 outings of last year of course.) Like I said earlier, I’ll shut up until we see what Omar ends up doing. I just think it’s going to be a bitter disappointment.
Keith: It’s not that they are garbage. It’s just other teams have better prospects to offer. Just comparing to the Yankees, neither Pelfrey or Humber can compare to Hughes right now. And since you have to assume that a team that trades their #1 will need what they think is a “stud” pitcher in return, the Mets don’t have that to give.
Steve, That’s the thing. Everyone is rating the other team’s prospects highly, while Omar, and apparently Keith Law, see Pelfrey as nothing to sneeze at. But there are some posters who have railed at our prospects, and it’s just not accurate. We may not have a Bucholz or a Hughes, but I think Milledge is better than Ellsbury or Cabrera. And no one has a prospect like FMart.
So should Minaya over pay by offering Pelfrey, Gomez, and Mulvey for Santana?
I would do this deal, and I think the Twins would too. But they just need to see if other teams would offer more.
The rade market this time of year is pretty much a big game of chicken. That, and enough smoke blowing to shut down JFK from the fog.
anything you real from the media is either pure supposition, or a “leak” planted for a purpose.
Of course a GM is going to downgrade other teams prospects, and feign disinterest in the guys they are hot for.
Not sure why Omar has been so public about wanted to get pitching. Maybe he figured everyone knew it anyway, so it would flush teams out of the woodwork, to make him offers? Of course expecting him to panic and take a stupid deal, but once they are at the table, anything can happen.
As long as he doesn’t do something really stupid (and I know everyone has a different definition of what that is!).
I like the startegy of th epublic dance with Beane, while working behind the scenese with another team, giving them a “last second” chance to steal someone away before Oakland get him.
Do the Giants need a young, speedy CF like gomez? Pittsburgh?
Just get 1 guy along the lines of Snell and the only real move needed is a guy for the 5/6 hole, and that could be a Colon or jennings reclamation type.
If Milledge + goes for a mediocrity like Blanton, then Omar does deserve to be fired. Especially if he follows it up with adding someone like Sanders for RF.
Keith: YES YES and YES. But I’m not sure the Twins would. I think with their trade yesterday, I don’t think Gomez is a need anymore for their team. It also might kill the Yankees if they were figuring they have added value with Melky. (Which puzzles me since I think he is sooooo overrated.) It wouldn’t shock me if the Twins insisted on Cano.
I bet if the twins tell them they are prepared to accept another offer (of course implying it is with Boston!), but that they can have him for Hughes + Cano + some smaller part(s), the Yankees will cave in and do it.
If the Twins really aren’t that interested in Cano, they can always redirect him elsewhere.