Reyes and a delicate topic …
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- October
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In response to those who suggested it: Jose Reyes NEVER failed a drug test on any level. To say this is the cause for his second-half slide isn’t fair or responsible.
I wouldn’t speculate on this, and nobody I’ve spoken to with the Mets, even “off the record,’’ would acknowledge this as a cause.
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on Wednesday, October 3rd, 2007 at 11:11 am by John Delcos.
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We never saw the troubles that Doc and Strawman had coming…did we?????
Where did all this start? It’s absurd!! The kid has three bad months and now he’s a drug user?? Unless somebody has concrete evidence I will believe nothing when this subject is written about.
Billy: No we did not. But, by the same token, if you’re going to suggest drugs as the cause for Reyes’ slide, shouldn’t you suggest it for every slump? How about Wright’s homerless April? How about Delgado? How about Glavine’s last three starts? Why not them, but Reyes? Not right.-JD
John – Interesting point on why Jose and not Tom or David.
So many people are piling on this guy, these rumors, talking about how he doesn’t speak english well. It smells to me. Real bad. It is sickening.
JD: Do the Mets plan to give Ken Oberkfell a chance to coach in the bigs in 2008? He certainly deserves it by now.
What a comical idea! Really. He had a prolonged slump at an inopportune time and was pressing. There’s a “can’t win” aspect to this as well. At the beginning of the season, people were dumping on him for showing too much enthusiasm. Now they’re dumping on him for being flat.
(Aside to Billy: part of why we didn’t see it coming with Doc and Straw was that there wasn’t any kind of testing back then!)
Hmmm…interesting responses on all ends. But on the flip side – keep in mind, Barry Bonds never failed a drug test either. That said, I will not disclose any speculation I have heard on people who “fraternize” with the team. Not druggies or drinkies or whatever, just people who are “in the know.” Since this is a stand up blog, I will just leave it as, yes, Jose never failed a drug test. But what I think he failed at was being humble and believing his own hype. never mind any drug speculation.
PS Regarding Doc’s drug usage, he asked that they give him a blood test, according to Bad Guys Won. There was drug testing, just not as vigorous as it is now b/c of the steroid backlash
John –
I would never have thought drugs was the reason that Jose was not himself. Guess I am naive, but I still don’t believe that is the reason. In a way, this kind of accusation would never have arisen if there was mandatory, complete drug testing for all professional athletes.
I guess I thought that immaturity was Joses’ problem….......
I also want to add a disclaimer that I do not believe Jose Reyes was taking any kind of drug, performance enhancement or “happy” enhancement LOL. Personally, I thought he was ill. When we saw him with his head up his a$$, I thought, he has mono or something. I wouldn’t be surprised if we find out he got ill this winter or something.
The Mets if they have not done so already need to hire a private investigator to do some checking around. If they find anything fix it now. I don’t think the team or the fans need another Doc or Daryl problem. The interesting thing is that someone once compared him to Furcal and I think he is much better than him. But Furcal has an admitted drinking problem and it did take time for him to come around and seek the help he needed to live with it.
1) What do they test for in baseball? Marijuana? Cocaine? Steroids? Amphetamines? How reliable are drug tests? Probably pretty good for the drugs listed but there are things (HGH, new designer drugs) which can’t be detected.
2) I think being tired after playing 160 games did the trick. I don’t know if Reyes played winter ball last year but if it did, that must have worn him down. The Mets should tell him not to play this winter.
3) Monday on WFAN Fatso and Fruitloops said Jose Valentin’s injury removed a guiding influence from Reyes. Any truth to that?
4) Bill Madden of NY Daily News has a story today on how assistant GM Tony Bernazzard has a policy that any Latin player can call him anytime on any subject. When the Mets hired Randolph (Bernazard wanted Manny Acta) they expected Randolph to be a meek humble man happy to have a job and to follow the organization on everything. They won’t hire Jim Leyland because he is his own man. Instead Randolph showed up with definite ideas on how to run things. With this conflict between Randolph and Bernazard, would Reyes complain to the asst GM if he was critized when others weren’t (Reyes’ complaint and I think he has a point).
5) I don’t think Reyes is a druggie (although he has more power than I expected. But I am not a scout) but 25 years ago everyone portrayed Dwight Gooden (and Len Bias) as two guys who would never touch the stuff. In my youth Mickey Mantle was portrayed as a great guy with a blonde wife and four kids. As Marianne Faithful (Speaking of drugs, Sister Morphine herself) says in the encore on the “Blazing Away” videotape “You never know. You never f****** know”. Gotta watch that one again..a classic tape.
John: re: your reply to Billy: There is a huge difference between someone like Reyes and players like Glavine and Delgado. You want to tell me that after all these years as players and family men that those two would suddenly start coke? Nonsense! There is a youth factor with Reyes and others (yes including Wright) that lends a slight shadow of a doubt on that thinking. To suggest its the same with a veteran like those two is a poor arguement.
I have no reason to believe that Reyes is involved with hard drugs, but you have to come with something better than that…
I really hope these rumors dont go viral and reach the Mike and the Mad dogs of this world. The kid doesnt need to be defending himself against these accusations on top of the pressure he is already under. I remember poor Mike Piazza being hounded over the gay rumors. I say lets give the kid a break already !!
To NateW.: Absolutely not. My argument is sound.
My point is if you’re going to throw out drugs as a cause for a slump for Reyes, then you have to do it with everybody else.
And, to dismiss Delgado and Glavine as ``family men,’’ as not being considered is wrong. Where have you been? Do you know how many ``family men’’ who are doctors, lawyers, corporate leaders, cops and politicians have dirty noses?
Too many to guess, I would think. My point is you can’t throw out drugs as a slump cause for one and not all. That’s why the accusation is unfair.-JD
steve: I wouldn’t mind Oberkfell as the 2008 bench coach with Manuel taking a job somewhere else or moving to 1B coach. My guess is that someone else will give him a big league job, and just like with Clint Hurdle it will come back to bite them eventually. There doesnt seem to be a lot of openings this offseason, a lot of the usual suspects (Orioles, Reds, D’Rays) have wrapped up a manager for next year already.
Dan Gurney: re #3: It was noted a few times by the annoucers that Valentin had a positive influence on Reyes’s focus on the defensive side of the game. It was also noted that Castillo was the same way. But I think we could all see that Reyes was defensively sloppy a lot more often in the second half of the year. Its a likely connection.
To Dan:
-Madden is right, but any player with a problem has an avenue for help, not just the Latin players.
-The tests are pretty good, and more than one sample is taken to ensure accuracy.
-I can’t say losing Valentin had any bearing on Reyes. There are plenty of other players he can lean on for support other than Valentin-JD
To The Coop: Correct, Bonds never failed a drug test. But, according to leaked testimony in the BALCO case, Bonds ``unknowingly’’ used steroids.-JD
John, its a track record thing. They have the track record to get a less suspision in that area. Its not a strong likelyhood for either type of player. But you do have to consider it lower for someone in Glavine/Delgado’s age group demographic. Statistics will bear that out.
...and it isnt fair to say it about anyone without cause, just wanted to add that.
Alcohol isn’t tested and if Jose is drinking too much and dragging his butt to the office the next morning, we wouldn’t know except by his performance. This most definitely has an effect on performance. I’m not saying it’s true, but seems a logical explanation.
Didn’t Bonds fail an amphetamine test which he blamed on his teammate. Said he took some pills this teammate had in his locker. Like all of us go rummaging thru co workers lockers looking for pills to take.
John: Do all players have Bernazard’s cell phone number? Is this common with other teams? I can see why you want Latin players (and any other foreign nationals) to be able to reach someone in case they run into trouble or have question (a credt card with a 75% interest rate is a good deaol??). But is it the assistant GMs?
Maybe I’m going nuts and am looking for scapegoats after saying all year the Mets were making the playoffs. But I feel the structure of this team is messed up.
By the way..the “Bergen Record” podcast guys (Popper and O’Connor) feel Minaya will make a major push for one Alex Rodriguez. Anyone ever hear of this guy?
Joust posted on Fannation: Interesting
The notion of a Jose Reyes-for-Johan Santana trade, while pure speculation, makes a whole lot of sense.
As much as the Minnesota Twins don’t want to trade Santana it might be a necessary move this offseason in order for them to stay competitive for the coming years.
Getting Reyes from the New York Mets in return would be an easy sell to their fan base because of the impact he would have on their stagnant offense. It also helps the small-market Twins that Reyes will only be entering the second year of his relatively cheap four-year, $23.25-million contract. That means Reyes would be an easy sell as the face of their franchise as the Twins move into a new stadium.
Source: Newsday
I just cant believe some of you people and the stupid ignorant things over a baseball slump what you guys come up with. Now maybe he might have an off the field problem but why does it have to do with drugs? He is married with 2 daughters at a very young age. There can be a problem there. But its just sickening that even an adult can come on here and just try to blow up every little thought that comes to there peanut brain. Get over the damn choke job already everybody contributed the players like Delgado have already said that they simply just didnt play hard or were as focused as last yr plain and simple. People stop acting like this is the only thing in your life because if it is you need to be checked up like some of you fools are talking about Reyes. Get a damn life people
Billy,
Check out one of the blogs we posted this morning that makes a strong argument that either Reyes or Beltran should be traded if there’s a chance that Johan Santana can be had.
As for the Reyes and drugs insinuations… it’s all folly…
Remember earlier in the year
when we talked about how unfair it was that
the Mets had the toughest OVERALL schedule in the league
playing every inter-league team that made it into the playoffs last year.
While the Phillies got the Royals and the White Sox.
We’re talking about losing the divison by 1 game
and when you have to play the 200 million dollar team in the Bronx 6 times every year while the Phillie get KC
it doesn’t seem to even to me.
AND btw I’m not making excuses for the collapse I’m just
stating what should be looked at from a factual standpoint
going forward.
That’s a great point deezo, and not one that can be easily dismissed. If the Phillies had played the Yankees for three games rather than White Sox who they swept, and the Royals, maybe that one game difference would have gone our way
It is truly sickening to hear any type of accusations about someone about drug use unless you have some sort of reason to truly suspect its use. Do we have any eyewitness accounts? Has any unnamed individual come forward and said that they supplied drugs to Jose?
Why don’t we accuse someone of being an axe murderer and he has been performing poorly because he was covering up his crimes. Give me a break people! Would anyone out there want their names associated with drug use if they had a poor end of the year at work? Why do people have to make such accusations without accepting that maybe somebody is only human.
It is truly sickening to hear any type of accusations about someone about drug use unless you have some sort of reason to truly suspect its use. Do we have any eyewitness accounts? Has any unnamed individual come forward and said that they supplied drugs to Jose?
Why don’t we accuse someone of being an axe murderer and he has been performing poorly because he was covering up his crimes. Give me a break people! Would anyone out there want their names associated with drug use if they had a poor end of the year at work? Why do people have to make such accusations without accepting that maybe somebody is only human and may not be perfect year-round.
Well, if we had won games against the nats or the marlins when we had the chance to in July and August (second game of DH in July against Nats not to mention day before…2 games against the Marlins in august, not to mention this last week thank you very much), the Mets would have had an even bigger lead…to blow. LOL just kidding. While the argument is sound that MLB f’d us with the IL schedule, Mets F’d up royally by not winning those games when they could have.
Regarding A-Rod: No way. He’ll cost way more than they are budgeted for and have more pressing needs. If Rodriguez has a problem playing in New York, which is why he would leave, moving across town isn’t the answer.-JD
As i mentioned in my post; im not making
excuses for how poorly the team played down the stretch
at all.
But as we all know games lost in June and July impact
post-season plans.
Playing the Yankees in 2 series per year every year
will always not be in our favor.
The only guy to complain about the tougher schedule
of the Mets (and the Braves) has been Chipper Jones.
(he doesnt like playing Boston twice.)
To Deezo: Thanks for bringing that up. The schedule is the most screwed up thing about MLB. For about a century every team had the same degree of difficulty with the schedule. In short, everybody ran the same race. MLB, in its greed, changed that with the gimmick known as interleague play and the unbalanced schedule.
Of course, the Mets had a cupcake schedule at the end, with a lot of it at home, and couldn’t seal the deal.
But, what you’re saying is true. There used to be an integrity about the MLB schedule that no longer exists.-JD
To Deezo: One more thing about the unbalanced schedule. I don’t think the players really care about this. You’d be surprised about how little the players care about the structure and make-up about baseball. As long as the checks keep coming in, that’s all that matters.-JD
To Dan: All players have the cell numbers of front office people to contact in case of emergency.-JD
While one could argue the persona Reyes showed the second half of the year, more importantly the last 6 weeks, was the persona of someone using something. Morose, not smiliing, unfocused.
I don’t buy that.
He certainly acted like someone who received a lot of criticism and took it to heart and it affected his play. Even with 5 yrs in kids make mistakes. Heck look at Brady Clark the other night practically screwing himself into the warning track trying to flag down that fly ball to center.
Someone needs to get into his head this winter and clear the mess out. Get him back to smiling. A smiling Reyes is a productive Reyes. The pressure is something he can’t handle.
With all the talk about a possible Reyes for Santana trade, it makes me wonder if this stuff is coming out of the organization… an attempt to perhaps ‘poison the well’ where Reyes is concerned so the fan base isn’t as devastated when they pull the trigger on a deal?
More wild speculation, but it doesn’t seem far fetched. Reyes is a fan favorite, and it would take some real character defaming for NY not to come to Shea with pitch forks and torches if he is traded.
I can’t seriously see the Mets trading Reyes – UNLESS – A-Rod opts out of his contract and is coming across town to play Short Stop…
not one for conspiracy theories, but … interesting.
Now everybody is complaining that the NL hates the Mets. Mike and mutt confronted Omar yesterday about the celebrations and pressed him to make it stop. Maybe Reyes is tired of people telling him to stop having fun and doing his dancing. maybe thats we he seemed less happy at the end.
In the 80’s the League hated the Mets also. They hated Carter waving his fist. they hated the curtain calls. Those 80’s Mets didnt change for the league. They got off on being the bad guys. That kind of mentality can bring a team together, but trying to please your opponents and being nice guys will not help the Mets. The Mets are not the yankees and shouldnt try to emulate what they do.
Ray: The talk is all hogwash anyway. I don’t mind the dancing, I dont care if other teams hate the Mets. Just because it may make them want to beat the Mets more, has no bearing on actually doing it. You know what kills me about the Yankee experts who are critical about the Mets, why don’t I hear them say anything about Joba who screams and yells after he strikes out batters.
Ive heard from numerous people reyes would get ROUTINELY smashed at bars and clubs(Posh) and I cant say it on this blog but all i can say is reyes, girl, glass table, glass in someone, the star ran away but thats just what I have heard
If you are better than everyone else I guess you can show them up and it won’t matter.
We did not make it to the post season by one game so it does matter. The mid 80’s Mets won one WS so they were not really that good either don’t you think?
In retrospect the downfall of Doc was drugs. Perhaps people knew and it was not reported. I remember wondering why he used to dominate and all of a sudden was getting hit. Now I know.
Don’t know about Jose. Rumours can be a vicios thing. I hope it is just a second half slump and is not a career thing. As he goes we go. But if there is something there it needs to be fixed.
Dave
Art, Why cant you say something on the blog? either tell us what youve got or dont say anything at all. This cryptic allegation is a waste of time.
– Dave, 1 championship is much better than what weve been getting the last 21 years. Those 80’s teams were a blast to watch. Last years team was fun too. This years team was like the 80’s Yankees. Overpaid, underachieving, Mr. May, old pitchers with ricky be ricky setting the pace.
dude i sorta told you, fine Jose was in the club Posh and was totally drunk, he started having intercourse with a woman on a glass table. The glass table broke and glass went into the girls buttocks. Jose ran away not knowing what to do. This is all from my friend who is a bouncer so i’m not so sure that he might have stretched it.
I also don’t care about people hating the Mets in the NL or thinking they are being “shown up” or whatever. The reason we are Mets fans is because we like the excitement, the identity, enthusiasm that comes with playing a KIDS GAME. It’s not Jose’s fault there are fuddy duddies out there who want to p!ss on the parade. Tell em to go to he!!. But besides all that, the difference between the 80s team and the 2000s teams is…recreational drugs. KIDDING. No, seriously, the “killer instinct.” Keith, Bobby O, Ronnie, Straw, even mr Nice Guy Gary Carter all went to every stadium thinking – we are not only going to win, we are going to dominate (thanks to the thinking of their mgr, the great Davey J). Willie, Mr Level-headed who can only think of sweet champagne and turning the page and tipping his cap, is not that guy. So the players are like that too. Like Paul Loduca back in June when they got swept by the dodgers in LA. PLD is on his weekly spot and was like – yeah (after losing the first game), we can’t get swept we need to take AT LEAST one of the next two. Are you f’ing kidding me? Say, yeah we’re gonna eat some steaks, drink some beers and sleep with the Dodgers’ wives. OK maybe not that far but the idea is KILLER INSTINCT. Remember, this same team couldn’t seal the deal in September last year when all they had to do was take ONE from the Pirates on the road. ONE. And they couldn’t do that. Whatever.
Sorry JD I got waaaay off topic there LOL. But it tied into Jose somewhat, so there
Art- Well at least now the story is readable. Where was the table? in the middle of the club? Sounds like Platos retreat. What kind of club is the Posh Club?
Personally, the way Reyes looked, acted, and played the last six weeks has led me to believe something huge is going on that extends well beyond baseball. We’re talking about significant change in attitude, disposition and body language that I strongly doubt is soley the hallmark of a slump.
There’s a thread on Metsblog that had much talk of the glass table incident from someone outside of baseball with first hand account. Some of the posts however where blocked by Metsblog from appearing and those in the discussion were saying their posts detailing the situation were blocked.
I’m inclined to believe there’s extra-curricular activity going on in Reyes’s life that involves partying and no longer being the sweet innocent type. I’ve heard that one of daily NY tabloids reported on Reyes’s nights on the town.
Reyes is 24 and in NY, has led a disciplined, responsible life taking care of his parents, kids, and live-in girlfriend, but perhaps the gasket has blown and now he’s a rebel out of control and can’t find himself.
If…and I say if…he’s drinking, partying, drugging, cheating, can’t find his way, whatever, people in his life need to help him out quickly ‘cause if this is true – he could screw up his life.
Whatever it is, I don’t like Reyes and his attitude right now. It’s a turnoff and very unbecoming.
To The Coop,
People’s reasons for being Mets fans are varied, and usually the diehards don’t have specific intellectual reasons – being a diehard just is.
And for the most part, the difference between choosing to be Mets fan or Yankees fan probably has more to do with it being passed down from parent to child than anything. And in the early days of the Mets, from embracing a new NL club after experiencing the heartbreak of losing the Dodgers and Giants to California.
EL I see what you mean – I’m a Mets fan from a long descendent of NL baseball fans, i prob wouldn’t even care for baseball let alone the Mets if it wasn’t for my family’s passion for it – but take a step back for a minute…90% of the time, mets fans HATE the Yankees. The other 10%, well those are the fans who “don’t hate the Yankees” but they generally root for both until they face each other, then they root for the Yanks LOL. Opportunistic. My point being – the Mets are LIKABLE characters. As they say in Red Sawx Nation, the Yankees are everything wrong in the world. They are the oil, insurance, US Steel, etc. You see them execute but it’s a Jay-oh-bee to them. The Mets, yeah they have a JOB to do, but they have fun doing it. Tell me it wasn’t fun watching them dance around and in general have fun in 2006? 2007 – different story. Something was different and they didn’t have fun. I like the sabor and different nature of the Mets and their fans, but with all the dancing and everything, they weren’t the same. Don’t know why. Think it starts with Jose.
I’m not sure how much the unbalanced schedule hurts the Mets. Yes they play the Yankees but back in July many people thought the Yankees were doomed and listless. Did the Phillies play the white Sox? They won the World Series in 2005 and were contenders in 2006. Who knew they would end up in a fight for Kansas City for 4th? The Braves usually play the Red Sox as their natural rival. They historically have the second highest payroll in baseball.
I’m not crazy about the unbalanced schedule but I like interleague play. I never understand why some media people (Joe Beningo, Suzyn Waldman) will rant against baseball having it but not NFL, NBA, NHL. I don’t think it makes that much of a difference. You have unbalanced scheduling problems since you went to divisional play in 1969. No one complained in 1973 when the Mets went to the World Series by beating the 99 win Reds. The Dodgers and Giants had more wins but didn’t get into the playoffs.
I don’t know team payrolls numbers but I have heard
the Mets payroll exceeds the Padres and Rockies combined. They tied for the wild card, we fell short.
Hanley Ramirez may have a chip on his shoulder. He came up with the Red Sox and ended up in Miami where 5,000 people come to home games, 4,000 of who root for the visitors. But you don’t want to get your opponents mad. You especially don’t want right fielders who stroll after balls turning doubles into triples in the 3rd inning of the biggest game of the year.
This team needs a jimmy Rollins, a Paul O’Neill who will make it clear we are here to win and won’t get bored. Being hated is one thing (although I believe in good sportsmanship)> But being ridiculed, as this team could become, is another.
To The Coop,
The Yanks have a storied history as one of the greatest sports franchises ever so it seems to me quite rational that the non-diehards, or those with no particular allegiance, will gravitate towards them rather than the Mets who happen to share a certain city with them.
I don’t believe the Mets have a particular type of character that has attached itself to this franchise throughout its existence, but rather, character is shaped by the particular roster and management in place at the time. Perhaps what remains consistent, however, is the character of we diehard Mets fans – a blue collar mentality that toughs it out in support of this team even when the players don’t.
JD,
There’s a big difference when Wright struggle in may because of the way his swing (upper cut) which Keith Hernandez pointed out and Carlos Delgado struggling because he was coming off wrist surgery but it is really evident that there was something wrong with Reyes. his demeanor changed considerably
and since the all star break he batted 211 and had a on base percentage just north of 300. That isn’t one month that is several months so I think your argument is real weak. I had a friend who went to posh a lot, it’s a night club and a meat market. I didn’t know this story about Reyes, I am really starting to get concerned here about Reyes. The way he has changed it would make sense that he is partying and living up the NY night life. That’s what did Gooden and strawberry in.
Art—Realistically, who among us hasn’t done similar at a nightclub?
Funny, I heard it was in a hotel (talking about the Reyes story)
Well, hotels are different. You get a different type of table there.
there is a whole site a found about jose reyes its: http://www.sportales.com/Baseball/Mets-2007.49794
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