The LoHud Mets Blog

There are 2 things about this season. 1) The Mets were never as good as most of their fans thought they were and 2) They had to play very poorly for the last 3 weeks in order to lose. To me these are 2 different issues. The one is about addressing the weaknesses of the team. Especially middle relief pitching. The second issue is about why they couldn’t play at least well enough to clinch that playoff spot. Why couldn’t they stop the slide? What was Randolph telling them in the locker room before and after the games? I don’t really know what the ideal thing to tell them is. I’m interested in everyone’s thought.

What’s all this debate about payroll? Who cares.

as a met fan ive gotten over todays lost
if we made the postseason there’s no way
we’d win the WS with this team.
this is the biggest gut check to the front office
and to the players.
so hopefully the front office does the right moves
this winter instead of pickung up one good player (alou).

Right now, I feel like it will be worse next year and we won’t turn it around until 2009. But I know as soon as n offseason move is made, I will start feeling a little more optimistic. Hell, even the times when they got Burnitz and Robby Alomar I thought those teams had a good chance, a bit unrealistically.

Next season, I would have no problem with Glavine in the rotation if Duque is in the bullpen; I don’t care about his $6 million salary or whatever – just do it. Maybe he can challenge Wagner for closer. I don’t want to see Pelfrey in the rotation either – stick him in the bullpen until he gets some better pitches. I wish they would consider moving Heilman back to a starter, but can’t see it happening. I really want Humber in the rotation next year with Pedro, Maine, and Perez. I think at least two of those latter three could really do well. Then the fifth spot with Glavine, Heilman, or somebody outside of the organization. Hopefully, they will consider releasing Mota if they can’t trade him. At least Scho was encouraging in the last couple weeks, since he will be here. My bullpen would be Wagner, Feliciano, Hernandez, Schoeneweis, Pelfrey, Sosa, and Smith if nothing better comes along. Sosa was good when not being overworked, and hopefully Smith can right the ship. I know that’s a lot of starters in the bullpen, but maybe when a starter gets injured, they can use one of those guys instead of next year’s versions of Vargas, Williams, Lawrence, and Park.

Even though Castillo has proven to be a gamer, I can’t see the benefit of having him back – he’s more likely to collapse than Alou. I could live with A. Hernandez and Gotay battling it out and platooning, with my edge going to Hernandez now. I still think Gomez needs time in AAA, so I owuld bring back Alou and Milledge for the corners. I guess Delgado will be back, but it would be nice if we could get Green to be a bench player, along with Chavez, Anderson, Easley, and the backup catcher, but it would be the 2B loser if not Green; maybe Valentin will come back! I really don’t know about that position right now – I would say bring back two of Castro, DiFelice, Alomar to compete for the backup, but i don’t think any of them could start, and Castro probably won’t get a starting job anywhere else. I don’t really care about PLD, but it’s clear he won’t be here.

On Willie, I definitely think he deserves to stay, with a winning record every season, but the three losing Septembers that were mentioned this weekend is very disturbing. Something he might need is better coaches that will fire players up, but also, last season, it seemed like the players did a better job at getting themselves fired up. It’s a puzzler as to what happened to that this season. Wright should be named the captain, especially if Glavine isn’t back because there will be a void there with him or PLD.

I think we should get some top five or top ten lists going – top memorably good and bad games, top Willie blunders to blow games, top players we don’t want on the team next season, top moments that made you say wow, and top games that we should have won to make the postseason difference.

Like I said, Reyes should have been benched for the last two games. I can’t imagine what was going on with him

I can’t believe the fnas of other teams who have no life coming on here to waste their time – especiallt the ron hall character of the past few days. The killer of the Mets not winning is that we won’t see historic tiebreaking games with four teams tied. I think we could have made it in as a wild card. I hope the Rockies make it now, just because they have never done so before and they have been playing so well winning 13 of 14. If they do get in, we can add Kaz to the list of recent former Mets making the playoffs that was posted recently.

GO INDIANS!! AND GO NL WILD CARD!! (to beat the Yanks and Phils, respectively)

“You copped an attitude when asking what I didn’t understand about “FRAILâ€? and “OLD.â€? I understand both words. And you know that.”

Truthfully, no, I did not know that. Because this is how you initially responded—“Do you think the author is suggesting the Mets have more broken bones—or a lack of team unity?” It is not one “or” the other. The author was saying 3 things there. Which you didn’t seem to understand. The Wagner comments in that article had already been brought up and addressed previously in this chat. But NOT the author’s criticism of the age/health of this team. That’s why I brought it up. Because it had been ignored.

“Didn’t you tell me that you knew you were right and that I was wrong?”

Yes, and I did it as a flippant comment AFTER long discussions in which I already explained why. Afterwards, when you asked me to explain my position, I did again.

“And fractious is the one you’ve conveniently downplayed. Any idea why?”

Incorrect. See explanation above. To follow up on that, see my comment at 5:25 PM. This was already addressed in this chat. It was the criticism of Omar that had been totally ignored.

“And what did you expect him to say? Further, I’ll bet you a cheesecake that the reporter comes out within the next week and disputes Wagner’s out-of-context claim.”

I’d expect him to say something like that if he disagreed with the spin. If the reporter comes out and disputes Wagner, then he better provide more quotes of the interview to back that up. He’s got the original notes/tapes. Simply disputing Wagner resolves nothing. Where we are right now on this issue is one person’s word against the other’s.

“I don’t think so. Lo Duca made comments earlier in the year.”

You are jumping to conclusions that the author’s use of the word “fractious” refers to anything other than the interview with Wagner. She didn’t refer to anything else. So all you have is Wagner in terms of “fractious.” And the author’s spin WAS discredited later in the day IMO.

“Do you really think the year-to-year age discrepancies I posted are of any statistical significance? It’s a hodge-podge of numbers with no significant trend data.”

I disagree with your description. The 30+ incidences are bunched in the first 7 years (5 of 7). But there’s only 1 30+ incidence in the next 5 years. It fits the author’s description perfectly. Looks like a trend to me.

“But you’re saying here that his performance dropped—which is my point. Performance is different from talent. If the talent isn’t performing, that’s the manager’s problem.”

I’m saying that both his ability and his performance dropped. Yes, performance is different from talent which is also different from ability. A player can be supremely talented. But his ability to perform can be diminished greatly through injury, or fatigue and stamina issues. Both Wagner and El Duque had injuries which diminished their ability to perform up to their talents. Glavine and Maine had stamina/fatigue issues which diminished their ability to perform up to their talents. Glavine’s was due to age. Maine’s was due to never having thrown that much in his career. None of this has to do with Willie.

“And I think it’s because he wanted to get home early to watch the Ken Burns documentary on PBS. You can’t prove it.

Now who’s copping an attitude?

You can’t prove that it isn’t. No one can prove anything here that is opinion-based. We’re all here basically just offering up opinions. But the reason it makes sense to me is that few pitchers at the age of 41 can throw 200 innings.

“But, even if it were a stamina issue, does that mean his manager might have overworked him earlier in the season?”

I don’t see how since he was on normal rest and normal pitch counts the entire year.

JK – the last two below 30 champs are within .8 of 30. Theones that really make a difference are ‘95, ‘95, ‘02, ‘03,. The others are all the same to me.

Spider: You and others talk about Glavine as the #5. His pride will never allow him to accept that role. Imagine if they brought him back in that capacity and it came to making up the postseason rotation. He would never want to go to the bullpen. He’s a HOF pitcher and I wouldn’t want to see him end up that way either. He should retire this year. It’s really too bad that his last game as a Met didn’t turn out better.

Spider: The average age of those last 5 years is 29. The average age of the first 7 years is 30.1. More if you just consider the 5 years previous to the most recent 5. So that’s at least 1 year younger for recent teams. That’s a lot considering you have about 25 players.

Keep in mind that I don’t even think roster age is as critical as the age of the group of key players on a team. And on this I would think the Mets have the oldest group of key players, or at least one of the oldest.

JK – I did not say Glavine would be #5, just that I’m not sure where he stands so he would fill that last empty spot. Humber would clearly be 5th. I would go Pedro – Glavine or other – Maine – Perez – Humber.

The problem with my bullpen is that it would never happen because Willie and Omar won’t take risks like Leyland, for example.

Simply put, ya gotta believe that the Phils wanted it more. So congratulations to the 2007 NL East Division Champions: The Philadelphia Phillies.

The 2007 Mets grew to beome an unenthused and unmotivated team right before our eyes. And if I knew exactly why, I’d have a new job this Spring. Anyway I’m sure the Mets and their fans and bloggers will have plenty to say between now and Spring of ‘08.

If there are any major management changes to occur, they should be made swiftly and within the next day or so. It would serve no purpose for management to prolong the first step in the rebuilding of the Mets for ‘08.

And thanks JD for providing a place this ‘07 season for us to read and rant and joke and smile about the Amazins’.

To SPiderpig: I stayed quite a while after the game, and no, the players (not one) ever came out to say anything to the fans that were waiting, in their seats and many behind the dugout. They were probably afraid to!

Spider: I misunderstood you then. But some others were talking about Glavine as a #5. As for El Duque, he has a guaranteed ‘08 contract and I doubt he’ll want to go to the pen fulltime. Apparently he didn’t even like his recent stint there. Unfortunately, it looks like we’re stuck with him in the rotation for next year.

JK: It’s a testament to your character that a.) you couldn’t let it go and b.) you went after me again, after I had indicated I was done.

You might want to spend some time thinking about yourself and why you act this way.

Look what happened to the Yankees in April when Torre’s starters couldn’t go 5 innings. He killed his bullpen. The Yanks had enough time to catch up.

Where do I begin? I’m still at a loss. What an awful showing by Glavine not only yesterday, but his last 3 starts in total. His ineffectiveness was inexcusable. I hope he does not come back to the Mets next year. Not only because of this, but because of his age. I know that no one knows, but where did the Jose Reyes of last year and the first half of this year go? I’ve never been so disappointed in a player in such a long time. Not even his slump, but just his attitude and non hustle. He took a big hit, and rightfully so. Omar and Willie I think are safe for next year, but they will be on a much shorter leash. That kind of breakdown can set a franchise back for years. It took the 78 Red Sox 8 years to get back to the postseason, it took the 64 Phillies 12 years to get back to the postseason. Let’s face it, this team is old, their staff from top to bottom is pretty weak. You can’t count on Pedro because of his fraility, Ollie and Maine have potential to be great, but have potential to make you want to pull your hair out. Aside of his one great start against the Braves, do you really have faith in Pelfrey as a mainstay of the staff? Humber obviously is unproven. The bullpen is a mess. Wagner gives me no confidence whatsoever, not to mention him shooting his mouth off didn’t help. I know Omar gave Mota two years, but can you really bring the guy back? The bullpen obviously needs to be revamped. Feliciano/Heilman/Schoenweis(due to his contract and improved pitching,)and Wagner should be the only ones guaranteed of returning. Also, can anyone tell me what Rick Peterson accomplished? Did he help anyone out of the pen? I think he needs to take a big hit as well. I think the infield is still pretty set with Delgado/Castillo (who i’d resign,)Reyes and Wright with Gotay being the backup or platoon at 2b. I would resign Alou for the year just as a backup solution in case Gomez isn’t really ready. No to Shawn Green…either give Milledge the job in RF or trade for a slugging RF if there is anyone out there. I have no clue what to do with the catcher’s spot. Is Pudge the answer? I don’t think so. I’d bring back Castro and let LoDuca walk, but they certainly need to bring in someone else to compete. It will be a very interesting off season to say the least.

This is for all the Philly fans. I never realized what obnoxious a&&***e’s Philadelphia fans are, you make New York fans look passive. I have heard how bad it is to go to a eagles game and how half the people there are thugs and now i now why and For a city that has franchises
that have terrible sports history you fans should pipe down. The phils finally win a division and you guys can’t stop coming on met blogs and crow, get a life, please.

James,

trust me, there isn’t any fire with any Philadelphia team to me, I could care less. I just have a problem with the fans of Philadelphia. I never seen such crowing in my life for a city that teams do nothing but they finally do something and the fans crow like they won a championship. I guess it must be the big brother (new York) always bitch slapping the little brother (Philadelphia) syndrome.

jk,

Just let it go. Benny has his opinion like everyone else. If Benny feels that all the blame goes to Willy than that is his
opinion. I personally don’t agree with it even though Willy did make decisions at times that you would wonder what the hell was he doing but at this point, it doesn’t matter. All that matters now is for the organization to organize itself and straighten out this mess and move on.

JK: Perhaps if you had the intellectual discipline to engage in a discussion with resorting to personal asides, I could take your suggestions seriously.

James,

there no hate dude, it’s that you like the rest of the Philadelphia fans are like that annoying peace of food that’s stuck between your teeth that you can’t seem to get rid of. I guess you have nothing better to do with your life than come on another teams blog and try to instigate people. I remember you when the Phils get knock out in the first round. What comes around goes around.

Benny: I am done. And unlike you I am mature enough not to say that and then come back to continue something. It was you who started on the personal attacks. But being so absorbed with yourself you can’t even see it. You may have the last word if you like. I have better things to do.

Hey JK: It must be your thick skin and need to throw in that last salvo, eh?

Let me get this straight: You don’t want me to reply to you—but at the same time you’re making personal comments about me being absorbed with myself?

I hit the nail on the head with the lack of intellectual discipline.

Honker off.