Greetings all. Welcome back to the Mets Chat Room.
There’s a lot to tallk about. The bullpen. … Tom Glavine Day. … Paul Lo Duca: Dumb or gutsy?
Just throwing some things out there, but go with your comments and questions during the game.
Correction: Alou has 23 RBIs as of today. Still pretty bad.
Willie needs to come out and complain.
Jose was out at the plate.
Here’s something to think about. At the start of today, Alou had 36% of the at bats for Mets leftfielders this year. And he had 36% of the RBIs for Mets outfielders this year. In other words, he was not producing at a higher rate than a collective of Milledge, Gomez, Easley, Ledee, Chavez, Anderson and Newhan. In the meantime he’s expensive, blocks development time for younger outfielders like Gomez, and is part of that malaise I talked about. He’s also one of the worst defenders in leftfield on the team. So you lose something defensively with him.
dave, has the jacket ever fixed a reliever with heat before? Do you think Omar even consulted with the jacket before trading for Burgos? I think it’s dangerous to think that the jacket can fix everyone.
Can someone please explain to me how Omar gets so much credit for getting the Mets all this talent but our AAA catchers are both ancient? How do we have no young catchers. Can we really compete with DiFelice and Alomar?
It’s okay to pitch and moan here and there, but I bet there are those who will even find several things to holler about after today’s win. These are the fans that should lighten up a tad. The Mets have ups and downs just like all other ball clubs. Met fans shouldn’t treat their team like it’s some sort of fast-food genie who’s only purpose it is is to please them and shower them with wins, as some project a ‘win or else’ attitude almost daily toward the Mets. I’m not saying to be a hopeless ‘homer’ or a ‘yes man’ with all of Willie’s decisions, but to paraphrase Barbara Billingsley from the movie Airplane: ‘Cut dem some slack, Jack!’
To Mets07: Gulp, it looks like they’ll have to compete with Alomar and DiFelice. Nope, this isn’t a good situation. It’s an area where Omar missed.-JD
By the way:
-Lower back discomfort with Castro has been defined as mild arthritis.
-Please give the man some respect. It’s The Jacket. And, no, I don’t recall if he’s fixed a reliever with heat. He certainly hasn’t fixed Mota. Then again, do we really know if Mota’s heat is for real?
-This thought about Burgos: He’s young, throws hard, and doesn’t make a lot of money. He’s perfect for a cheap team like KC. There must be a reason why they traded him. Hmmm. Oh yeah, he can’t find home plate with a GPS system.-JD
You know, Pitchers seem very comfortable throwing to Mike Difelice. Watching him call a game is a game within it’s self. It’s too bad he can’t hit. We can get by with him and Alomar for a few weeks if we had to as long as the rest of the lineup hits. I am confident when I say that having Difelice behind the plate will take a few points off he ERA. I would be a sad camper if I saw Milledge batting 8th behind either one of them.
I do believe that Mike Piazza cleared waivers….
To TLC: That was a nice throw DiFelice made today. You’re right. If the other guys are hitting they can afford to carry a weak-hitting catcher. With Milledge don’t you get the feeling Willie would bat him ninth if he could?-JD
John, you’re so short sighted when talking about Burgon, you repeatedly make that same assesment. Give it some time. Oh, and see how many innings he pitched in the minors for KC? Then he got thrown into the fire as their closer, just like that. Give the kid a break and realize he has a ton of talent and in a better system like ours and more time to develop, hopefully he can really turn into something.
John, ok ok, The Jacket. I will never disrespect him again! Can’t find home plate with a GPS system? That’s funny.
I am intrigued by what TLC said. I think there might be something to it. I do recall they brought DiFelice back last year so he could work with some of the younger guys in the minors. I hope he gets some starts in the coming days and it’ll be interesting to see how the pitchers respond to him. Though I doubt he can help Mota unless he brought a bag of drugs with him.
Lo Duca has been hitting .239 since the All-Star break. So it’s not as if DiFelice has to fill big shoes.
I am sure Omar talks to his scouts and if I was taking a flyer on damaged goods I would consult the staff that I am giving the task to. So yes I do think he consults.
As to the other question I do not know if he has fixed any relievers. I do know that Wagner was talked to and has added a pitch so he doesn’t have to go fast, faster, fastest.
Catchers – I do believe we have someone in A or AA. A bit of a way away, but someone for the future.
JD- Nice line an Amby.
JD – That was a nice throw by our catcher wasn’t it?
LEHE – It is a sad situation where we get toasted by one of the worst teams in the league. Yes it happens, but as a fan I expect to win the series or sweep. The Braves are different, esp with the starters they throw at us.
I was listening to the post game. Hopefully our pen is now Sosa, Heilman, Feliciano, Wagner. The others can come in if we are desperate.
A leader? I’ve been thinking that about all year. With Pedro gone there is no real heart and soul. I watched the ‘86 world series recently. Those guys were in each other’s face all the time. Really cheerleading. We have no one with that kind of heart.
dave, Peterson has fixed relievers before. He seems to have fixed Izzy and Foulke when they were in Oakland. But the question is has he fixed one whose main talent seems to be a heater? Did he fix Julio? Also, even if Omar did call Peterson over the winter, which I have my doubts even happened, how could he give an assessment without ever having watched the kid pitched? I doubt he would ever say to Omar that he could fix him, especially after all the grief he got with his Victor Zambrano 10-minute fix comment.
dave- peterson can be credited with fixing feliciano, bradofrd last yr, darren oliver last yr, helping heilman transfer from starter, making wags better etc. petersons done a great job.
dame i wish we kept jesus flores hes actually starting to hit with the nats
DeFelice and Alomar were both essentially in AAA to train the AAA pitchers and serve as defacto coaches… it’s not fair to expect that any organization should be four-catchers-deep in terms of offensive-minded catchers.
Having a starting catcher who could hit for banjo-average and a back-up catcher who can hit for power but not much average consistently is… already better than most teams.
As for Piazza, his throwing arm is completely gone. Completely. Dude can’t get behind the plate even in an emergency situation with the As.
He can still hit as a DH, no doubt, but he has no business catching for anyone at this point.
And everyone can say what they will about Burgos… but before he got injured, his numbers were good. This year, I’d take one more reliever with an ERA under 4, I’ll tell you that much.
John please agree with me, the Mets need another relief pitcher. And while doing this they need to get rid of Mota. Instead of making a trade they should call up Philip Humber. Humber is still recovering from TJS and it wouldn’t hurt to limit his innings now that he has gone past his career high.
Humber has a 4.42 ERA in the PCL, but this is from overthrowing and he is basically unhittable the first 2 innings. (A middle relif pitcher)
He tends to throw his changeup to hard, basic mechanics Peterson would help a lot..
In Middle relief (1-2 innings) Humber could just let loose.. like Wainwright last year, or Joba this year. Liriano once pitched out of the pen. it’s not the death sentance like Hielman this team needs Humber in Relief, and who needs him most is Jorge Sosa who is basically pitching 2 innings every other night.
Another great example Sosa, great the first time through the batting order gets beat up the second and third time, moved to the pen and he’s unhittable.
The pen would be set up like this
Your thoughts John? I think you should run it by Willie :D
“If the other guys are hitting they can afford to carry a weak-hitting catcher.”
They already have been. His name is Paul Lo Duca.
I am with you about bringing up Humber. I have been beating that horse for a while now (although I also gave them the option of using Pelfrey!)
For all the reasons you mentioned, he is a prime candidate for helping out in the pen this year, and stepping into the rotation next year.
At least the Mets can get some use out of him, instead of just having him make 4 more AAA starts and then hanging out for the winter!
He has to be better than Mota, right? Plus, he could also serve as a long man if someone got knocked out early.
I think it would give them a lot of BP flexibility if they make the playoffs. Plus, at least one guy in the pen would be qualified to start!
Although if Pedro comes back, one of the other current 1-4 starters will get bumped too, but that is a debate for another time!
To Darren: Real interesting proposal you’ve made. They do need a reliever and I don’t think they’ve considered using Humber. I’m not so sure they want to test his arm (remember, he had surgery) that way. But, as long as their bullpen is a problem Omar needs to be asked about all the options.-JD
To JR: Good point about Lo Duca.-JD
we’ll I can only hope someone brings it up, you never know..
people don’t undestand what it will mean to put Humber in the pen, the guy is going to pitch his first full season in a while after surgery and you want to throw him into the pen and mess that up and possibly wear his arm down? you people are crazy. The bullpen would be worse for his arm then starting, he needs rest to make sure he keeps and builds on this strength.
throwing 100 pitches every 5 days will hurt him more then throwing 1-2 innings every other day.. he’d basically be pitching on his bullpen days..
get in 3-4 games a week and throw 80 pitches.. instead of starting 2 games a week and throwing 200 pitches.
Willie plays favorites, and it hurts our team. That’s the bottom line. You have to play Milledge over Green. From the start of July til now Green has 5 RBI. FIVE.
I know Willie struggles at times, but there isn’t a more obvious change that would improve this team. We need Milledge out there every day to not only get him ready for the playoffs, but to ensure our playoff spot. COME ON WILLIE.. IT’S AUGUST 13TH, WAKE UP.
All Milledge does is hit. And hit and hit and hit.
And all Willie does is bench the dude.
It’s a damn shame is what it is.
You are wrong about Amby. He always sucked this year. The only time he looked good was when we had a 10 run lead and they trotted him out for a quick one inning look. If he did well or sucked it didn’t matter. He just used an inning.
As JD said, he can’t find the plate that is his problem. He is Benitez redux.
That’s an oversimplification about Humber’s potential use in the bullpen. What about all of those days warming up and not getting into a game? Those are pitches thrown too.
I just don’t know why you think he’s ready. Pelfrey still isn’t ready and he’s made about a dozen starts up here. Comparing Humber to prospects on other teams who made the jump isn’t fair.
There is a chance it might work, sure. But there is also, probably a bigger chance, that it would not. I’m not really sure why you think it’s a slam dunk.
Mike C, can you exaggerate any more than you have? All Willie does is bench Milledge? Then how come Milledge has started 7 out of the last 11 games? Or perhaps that’s his doppelganger? All Milledge does is hit? That must mean he’s hitting 1.000. Right? For your information against righthanders he’s hitting .277 since the all-star break. During that same time Green is hitting .303.
JR, you may be right about Humber, but why not try? Where’s the harm in just trying? Darren’s idea is an interesting one. I have zero faith in Mota when he comes in so anyone would be preferable to him. Hopefully Joe Smith also rights himself soon.
The Mets don’t do enough creative tinkering with young players in their minor league system. Instead they too often just fall back on a fringe veteran such as Ricky Ledee. One reason Norfolk snubbed the Mets this year was because they were tired of seeing so many washed up veterans on the Tides. That doesn’t draw folks to the park. It had gotten worse under Omar with the likes of Gerald Williams and Jose Offerman.
You don’t mess with a top prospect who is recovering from TJ surgery. Its just too dangerous to his arm. Next year, you can do what you want with him but not while his arm is still getting stronger. You can play with Pelfrey. Maybe he’s like Izzy and should be a releiver. I’d rather experiment with a healthy arm. Throwing without 5 days to think might be excellent for him.
As for Mike C if he ever comes up with a new thought the boad will explode.
Omar implied that he’d be trying to make a deal after the trade deadline for another reliever…is it realistic at all to expect that he’ll be able to make one? ...is anyone even out there that would be a good fit for this team? And as for outfielders…Alou has been playing great for the past week. I don’t care if he’s old and slow, but for all the Alou bashers—shut up and enjoy the ride while it lasts.
And I think it’s unfair to blame Willie for using Mota/Show…he doesn’t really have that much to work with. You can’t pitch Heilman/Feliciano every day in the 7-8. Smith got sent down after a few bad innings and we didn’t make a move before the dead…what are his choices?
And yea…it would be nice to see Pelfrey pitching (well) out of the bullpen. He really only has two pitches, can throw for 92-96 (note: that’s basically harder than Mota on any given day), and even though the numbers don’t show it, he hasn’t pitched that badly in his last 2-3 starts. Usually there’s 1 bad inning, but he showed in his last outing that he can calm himself down. The though of Pelfrey, Smith, and Sosa in the bullpen makes me feel so much better than Scotty and Mota.
Side note: Eric Gagne blew 2 saves this weekend. Imagine if he did that here for the Mets after the Mets had traded top prospects for him. Not good. Dotel hasn’t been that great either. Conclusion: It’s really tough getting good relief help these days.
I don’t think 1 week of good play justifies a player’s presence on the team. Sorry, but next year I hope they don’t bring Alou back. It’s a waste of time and resources and prevents younger players from getting a chance or prevents the team from going out and getting a younger outfielder who won’t spend half the season on the DL. I don’t think Alou will come back anyway. He realizes he’s done and would have retired this year if he hadn’t been offered a contract.
Whydoirespondtothisguy: Humber got his TJ surgery in July of 2005. That’s more than 2 years ago. I think he’s way past the recovery stage from the surgery itself and there is no risk of a relapse. The only issue I think is getting back to where he was in terms of power and control before the surgery. I could be wrong but I don’t think there is a real health risk. At any rate, I hope they at least bring him up when rosters expand. As I said in a previous comment they don’t do enough creative tinkering with younger players in their minor league system.
steve, that’s why you don’t let a Bradford walk, especially for what amounted to less than what they paid Schoeneweis. As for Gagne, I have this suspicion that the LA Dodger bullpen of a few years ago was a hotbed of juicers. That’s why both Gagne and Mota are nothing special anymore.
Well, like I say, the problem with the bullpen goes deeper than that…
If Willie had ever shown a whit of confidence in his young relievers, Omar wouldn’t have had to trade Bell (growing into a great set-up man) and Ring (probably never gonna be great but will be a solid and cheap back-end of the ‘pen guy) and…
They wouldn’a had to sign Mota, they wouldn’a had to sign Horror Show and losing Bradford wouldn’a hurt at all.
But Wagner, the closer himself, has said that the management refused to give Bell a chance.
It all comes back to the myth of the Proven Veteran™.
Wow, Mike C, way to rewrite history. Look back at the records. In 2005 and 2006 Bell pitched over 80 innings with the Mets and had an ERA over 5.00. So what the %^#$ are you talking about? I had zero confidence when Bell came into the game. Ring didn’t impress either when he pitched for the Mets. And if he were so good why do the Padres have him in the minors right now? Instead of your constant knee-jerk bashing of Willie why don’t you look at the facts first? Another fact: Heath Bell did not get along with Peterson. When the Mets were in SD recently he gave interviews and essentially bashed Peterson. So if you want to criticize someone over Bell, there’s your man. Though I tend to think Bell just couldn’t hack it in NY for various reasons.
By the way, the Braves placed Dotel on the 15 day DL today.
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