Mets Chat: Let’s talk history
I know a lot of you watched Tom Glavine tonight. Believe me, it was a thrill for me to cover it.
By this time, most of you should know I really like baseball history. So tell me, if you could have seen any moment – that’s one play – in history live, what would you choose?
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I wish I’d have seen Buckner’s error in Game 6 live at Shea.
I was a freshman in college at the time and my dad offered me the chance to fly in from Rhode Island to two games – 1 and 2, or 6 and 7. Stupid me, I played it conservatively, making sure I’d go to the games that were guaranteed to be played.
However, there’s a silver lining.
Watching Game 6 on TV with my then-girlfriend and her parents proved to be the last straw with her, as she thought I was being rude watching that game instead of kibbitzing with her and her folks.
Thank God I maried a beautiful woman who now goes to Mets games with me on both coasts, wearing either her David Wright or Jose Reyes jersey and cheering for the Mets as passionately as I do.
Wow I dunno, there are alot as a baseball fan I would love to see.
There’s Game 6 of the 1986 World Series, with Buckner’s error leading to Ray Knight scoring the winning run.
THe Endy Chavez catch last post-season. I get chills watching videos of it. Not only was it a great catch but the fan reaction was nuts.
There’s the Grand Slam Single against the Braves in 1999. Oh man, I can only imagine how the stadium was.
I know it sounds stupid but when Magglio hit the world series clincher against the A’s last october, I smiled and almost teared at how col and beautiful it was. The fans went wild, I went wild, and when I see replays I get chills.
But I think the one play I wish I couldhave seen live is, and even though I’m a Mets fan I think I’d go with Game 6, bottom of the 9th inning, October 23, 1993, Toronto, Canda, at the SkyDome. Joe Carter hits that walk off world series clinching homerun against the Phillies and against the big bad closer “Wild Thing” Mitch Williams. That ending is movie-like. And everytime I see that play I get goosebumps as to how crazy that must have been. The crowd goes SOO crazy and SOO wild that you cannot hear the announcers, its DEAFENING. And of course Joe Carter jumping up and down was a great touch.
I was only 4 years old during that play and I never saw that World Series “live” on my TV and have no connection to the Blue Jays or any of those players in any way but as a baseball fan I WISH I could have been there live for that.
I would have to say Bill Mazeroski’s walk-off home run in the 7th game of the 1960 World Series, when the Pirates came out of nowhere to defeat the Yankees. Just such an iconic baseball moment.
However, I did witness one of the greatest Mets moments in history. I was 13 years old and my uncle took me to Game 4 of the 1969 World Series. The spectacular catch that Ron Swoboda made off of Brooks Robinson in the 9th inning of a 1-0 game was by far the most unbelievably play I have seen in almost 40 years. After that catch, there was absolutely no way that the Orioles were going to win that series. You just knew the Gods of Baseball wouldn’t allow it…and it made me a Met fan for life.
Sean: The baseball gods aren’t always on the side you think they’re on. I was there last year when Endy made The Catch. You couldn’t have convinced me then, or 56,000 others that the Mets weren’t going to win that game.
You know the rest of the sad story.
I’d have to love to have been there when Shawn Green hit that five-hopper to the second baseman. I mean, I’ve seen it on TV enough—just wish I could be there in person to witness it first-hand. I can only imagine what the feeling is like at Shea when the throw from the second baseman hits the first baseman’s glove for the third out.
If it could be a whole game, Game 6 against Houston in ‘86.
If just a moment, then it would be the Babe calling his shot and then hitting it, so I could see if he really did call it, and to see him hit one out.
Is one game OK? I would like to have been at Dodger Stadium on September 9th, 1965 to watch Sandy Koufax pitch a perfect game.
The Merkle game. September 23, 1908 I think.
Dick Young once said his most memorable baseball moment was a 1963 game at the Polo Grounds when a young couple were ejected for being “too amorous”.
>>I would have to say Bill Mazeroski’s walk-off home run in the 7th game of the 1960 >>World Series, when the Pirates came out of nowhere to defeat the Yankees. Just such an >>iconic baseball moment.
You can find an MP3 of that game covered by the Pirates radio guys. It’s amazing, I got chills listening to it and I knew the ending. Highly recommended.
I’d just like to see a 50s Dodger-Giant game in Ebbetts Field. Just a regular season game that I didn’t know the ending. Love to see Robinson, Campanella, Mays, Hodges et al live.
I have to go with Dan Gurney’s answer. I can see Buckner’s boot a zillion times on tv. Hell, I see and hear it in my sleep. :-) But the Merkle play has no video or audio to replay. It engendered controversy and violence that makes Steroidgate pale by comparison.
About the only thing people agree upon is that Merkle didn’t touch second base. Beyond that, the play is totally muddled as fans took to the field and balls were flying around. Cait Murphy’s “Crazy ‘08” is a great book on the topic.
A few thoughts from this weekend’s games and topics:
First, on this one, I would go with Jackie Robinson’s debut, since it was such a volatile time, and just to see how much hostility there was. Other moments can be better expressed on television. As for a game, since I’ve seen a perfect game live (David Wells), I guess it would be game six or seven of the 1986 World Series, probably game six because it was closer, I think.
For Pedro, I think it is best to rehab him as a starter, then he can become the fifth starter for a few starts, or spot giving other starters a rest (El Duque) if we have a bigger division lead. Then, I would like to see him in the bullpen for the playoffs, since he will not have probably built up his arm strength too much by then. He will only have to worry about one or two innings and throwing some nasty stuff. He has to rehab as a starter, though, in case one of our top four gets injured.
I would say 300 wins is the tougher accomplishment because pitchers have a harder time staying healthy for that long of a career than home run hitters. It takes 15 years of 20 wins each or 20 years of 15 wins each, when pitchers only get 35 starts maximum, while hitters play every day, and can get 25 home runs in 20 years to make it fairly easily. In Glavine and Maddux’s cases, however, it wasn’t as tough because they relied more on change-ups and placement rather than power. It’s tougher in the NL, too, where pitchers tend to be taken out sooner, but again, that wasn’t really a problem for Glavine specifically. Off the top of my head, I thought the next player to get there would be Johan Santana (if Big Unit doesn’t come back), but he has a long way to go, having 89 wins at 28 years old. Maybe Webb or Peavy after that.
Looks like the Cubs are out of the race with Soriano being out two to four weeks. That’s too bad, but maybe they can hold it together. Apparantly Castillo was taken out for heat exhaustion; you know it was hot there when you could see Rick Peterson’s number.
As for Bonds, I would vote him into the Hall of Fame on the first ballot because even though steroids was illegal in the USA, it was not banned in baseball because they were ignorant and ignoring. As others mentioned, pitchers were using too, and Bonds hit #755 off of a convicted user. The only difference between Bonds and Hensley is that Bonds never had to stop until recently when testing was put in place. Some conspiracists still think he is allowed by baseball to use steroids. So many players were “cheating,” but we will never know the full extent, so those who are suspected or confess to it should not be denied recognition for their accomplishments.
On a lighter note, Jon Miller and Joe Morgan have to be the worst #1 team for any sport on any network, but McCarver is close to doing it for FOX. Miller said last night that while the Cubs have Derrek Lee, the Brewers, with whom the Cubs were fighting for first in the Central, have Carlos Lee. Meanwhie, he was traded by the Brewers to Texas last year and is now on the Astros. (Correct me if I’m wrong here because I wasn’t listening too closely, but I think he said Brewers, not Astros.) Also, when the graphic said who was acquired by the Braves and Phillies, it said that the Braves got Royce King rather than Ring; the announcers’ only fault was not correcting it. Finally, I’m convinced that ESPN has a lot of good camera shots, but doesn’t use a lot of replay so their announcers can blab some more.
Game 5 of the 1969 World Series hands down!
Man thats a tough question. IM a young guy @ 25. The best moment i have ever seen live was the Robin Ventura grand slam single. That was such a great game.
But as far as what would I of loved to see is probably the first game Jackie Robinson ever played. I would of liked to feel the mixed emotions in the crowd, how the teams handled everything leading up to it and how the game was played. Just so many things that went into that moment
Bobby Thompson’s shot heard round the world, willie mays’s catch, Gionfrido’s catch, Babe Ruths called shot, Chambliss’s walk off
David Ortiz walk off against Rivera in Game 4 of ALCS was pretty sweet as I believe it was the first nail in the coffin of the Yankee Dynasty.
But, i am a Mets fan and therefore must go with what is obvious choice of Game Six in ‘86.
Spiderpig, about the worst announcers. Nobody irks me more than Joe Buck and his complete devotion to the Cardinals. But Morgan is just an idiot. How about last night when he said that Luis Castillo has played his whole career in the AL and thats why he doesn’t know how the wind plays at Wrigley. Not corrected at all by Miller, who should know the NL as he works with the Giants. Were they not around for his 10 years with the Marlins and two world Championships…I mean hello everybody understood that Pierre and Castillo were a deadly combination at the top of the Marlins order. Which is why i think Castillo is a perfect complement to Reyes at the top of the order. Complete idiots. I can’t stand national broadcasts as they seem to treat the viewer as an uninformed child.
I’m a younger fan, so I would have wanted to see something from a different era. After doing a lot of reading I couldn’t think of a better moment than Elston Howard ground out to shortstop off Johnny Padres to end the 1955 World Series. It was the last World Series Brooklyn would win, and they were just tortured year after year by the Yankees and Giants in the postseason. It would have been very cool to see all the die hard Brooklyn fans go nuts after the game.
I was at the game in which Todd Pratt hit the walk-off HR to send the Mets to the NLCS in 1999. That was pretty cool. If I could have been at any game? Man, how about when Luis Gonzalez hit the jam bloop single to defeat the Yankees in game 7?
For those who hate Joe Morgan like me there is a site dedicated to Joe Morgan hating. http://www.firejoemorgan.com
Morgan is arrogant but I wonder how many fans could speak for 3 hours and not make any gaffes. Probably very few. There are no backspaces or erasers on live TV.
Morgan is just plain stupid. There I said it. He is haughty and arrogant but most of all completely unaware of the fact the he is severely mentally challenged.
For me it’s got to be game 6 of the 1986 World Series.
A response to Spiderpig who said:
“As for Bonds, I would vote him into the Hall of Fame on the first ballot because even though steroids was illegal in the USA, it was not banned in baseball because they were ignorant and ignoring.”
Why does baseball have to ban something that’s already illegal? I don’t think baseball has any rules against murder yet I doubt Selig would condone it happening on the field.
The day Barry Bonds head explodes from all the steroids.
Well Dave its about not being able to really “prove” he did it. Since there was no testing there is no tangible proof that he did anything, its as simple as that. Make as many accusations as you want but technically there is no proof he did anything between his major league debut and 2005.
If they had it all along or started the testing earlier we’d be able to know whether or not he used them 100% no questions asked. We can only go by what has happened between 2005 and now. And so far he hasn’t tested positive for anything.
And even when in the Grand Jury testimony he said he didn’t know, and honestly would YOU lie in court? I have a hard time believing he has the nerve, the audacity to lie in court, and under oath.
You may hate him, you may think he’s the biggest dick on the planet but you have to be fair as well you can’t just go with what your heart says.
I should probably pick a more important or iconic moment, but I when I was 16 I lived and died with that 1999 Mets team, so it’s got to be Ventura’s Grand Slam Single in Game 5 of the NLCS. I still remember Rick Reed talking about how, when he was warming up in the bullpen when Ventura hit it, he felt Shea shaking on its foundation.
I would’ve liked to have been there for the Chavez catch last year (another foundation-rocker, to be sure). But Ventura’s shot won the game, extended the series, brought them back to 3 games to 2, and sent the NLCS back to Atlanta-
all against that loathed Braves team (I’ll never forget how angry I was during that seriesI think it was Game 5 itself, but the series is a bit of a blur in my mind-when Rocker, after K’ing Piazza, walked back into the dugout yelling at the fans something to the effect of “What are you barking about? I just struck out your best hitter.”).If the Mets didn’t advance, the celebration of that (quasi-)homer was the last one we’d have at Shea in ‘99, so it was really sort of the culmination of the entire year. I’d have loved to have been there.
Actually, I believe there are still some type of DNA samples (urine, I believe) that could clarify what Bonds did or did not take. Moreover, it is my understanding that the BALCO prosecution team has contemplated issuing subpoenas for Bonds’ samples, to verify his grand jury testimony, and that the custodian of the samples (either MLB or the Players Association, I’m not sure which) indicated that a legal fight would ensue.
Suffice to say that Bonds wasn’t taking anything that could have been detected by the testing methods used back then—but advances in testing technology could be used on a old sample to tell a different story.
Brian, i remember breaking my remote control on the walked in run by Kenny Rogers to end that game and series in ‘99.It was probably the most frustrating moment for me as a sports fan.I hate the f*#@in’ Braves and hope that woop their asses this week at Shea.
Spiderpig: Jon Miller actually DID correct the “Royce King” graphic. But if he said what you said regarding Carlos Lee, that’s showing signs of early dementia.
As for Morgan, it really bugged me hearing him defending Barry Bonds for the umpteenth time.
As for national radio, ESPN’s Dan Shulman is the worst. When Ty Wigginton was with the Mets and Shulman was calling a game against the Yankees, he kept referring to him as “Wiggington.” Made me sick.
Still love catching the extremely candid and droll sense of humor of ESPN’s Dave Campbell, doing color commentary.
Mets moments that I’ve seen live and one (two) that I most wish I had:
Great question. I was at every post-season game in ‘86 at Shea.
FAVORITE: Game 6 WS. “Gets by Buckner” alone might be enough, but the guy parachuting down at the start of that game adds to the mystique that makes it #1.
SWEETEST: The feeling at the end of WS game 7 for those of us who had been waiting 17 years and all of our adult lives was indescribable and unsurpassed.
LOUDEST: Dykstra’s walk-off home run, with the Mets down one and Backman on second, in the NLCS against the ‘Stros was the loudest, stadium shakingest.
OASIS IN THE DESERTEST: In 1980, in the midst of a terrible era, Shea an empty cavern, Mets rally from 6-0 and down 6-2 with two outs in the 9th to win on a Steve Henderson home run. The attendance was 22,000 that night, but the 10,000 or so of us left at the end will never forget it.
SENTIMENTALIST: Tom Seaver’s return start on opening day in 1983.
INNOCENT JOYEST: Sept. ‘84: Rookie Dwight Gooden strikes out 16 Pirates in 2-0 shutout win that followed his previous start—a one-hit, 11K gem against the division leading Cubs and was followed in turn by another 16K performance (in defeat) against the Phillies. You will find it hard to believe, but only 13,000 of us were there.
MOST WISH I HAD BEEN THERE AND WASN’T: Game 7 of ‘69 Series. Runner-up: Ventura’s walkoff single. . .
I’ve got two games I wish I had seen. Game 6 of the 2000 world series. (Mets lost in five, I had tickets to game 6, story of my life.) And as for a moment that actually happened, sorry for not being original but…”it’s a ground ball, trickeling, GETS BY BUCKNER!! I was 10 years old and it’s still the only thing I know of that will make me cry.