Alex Rodriguez hit his 500th career homer today and Tom Glavine goes after 300 tomorrow night.
I’ve posted a poll asking which is the greater accomplishment. Let me know what you think and please vote. Talk with you tomorrow.
Between juicers and the increased popularity of the long ball, seems like everyone can get to 500. Yeah, Arod did it quickly. Griffey got there and he’s been hurt half his career. People are saying Glavine could be the last pitcher to get 300 for quite some time. Mussina spent a career on the Yankees, going to the post season every year, and he’s still 55 a way and looking like his career is on fumes. Schilling needs over 70. Pedro needs 94. These are three guys who or all likely to be in the hall, and chances are none of them will get there.
300 wins is the tougher achievement. But with A Rod the question is will he hit 800 or so, apparently as a clean player. 300 wins is kind of diluted too. You had a 60 year period from about 1922 to 1982 when only two pitchers (Spahn and Wynn) won 300. In the 25 years since eight pitchers have done it.
Schilling may stick around long enough to get 300 because he feels no one will be interested in what he says if he retires. Mussina seems comfortable with the Yankees and they can spend money to support him with 5 innings 3 runs allowed every 5th day. He may also think 300 wins is the only way he goes to Cooperstown without a ticket. All athletes have an ego and want publicity. Plus the money and the woman are pretty good. So I think one of those two guys makes it to 300.
Checking in from the Yankees blog –
Wins don’t mean you’re a good pitcher. Look at Steve Trachsel last year. Tom Glavine is an excellent pitcher, but pointing to the 300-win milestone to justify this is the wrong way to go about things. In the end, the milestone of 300 wins all by itself is nice to have, but means little as an accomplishment. Point to his career 119 ERA+ instead. That’s exceptional
Each of his 500 home runs was produced by Alex himself, and didn’t rely on the performance of the rest of his team. That makes it the more impressive and meaningful individual accomplishment.
Glavine’s 300 wins is definitely the more impressive feat. Here’s why …
From a stats perspective, wins may not be the best way to judge a pitcher. But when you’re talking about a pitcher going for 300 of them, then that’s monumentally impressive no matter how you look at it. To get to 300, you not only have to be a very good pitcher, but one who has longevity and does the little things to win as well, like fielding his position and hitting a little. Especially if you’re a pitcher in the National League where you’re taken out of games early for pinch hitters and thus chances for wins are minimized. Someone like Clemens had the luxury of not being removed for pinch hitters, plus also being on Yankee teams that produced lots of runs and gave him good bullpen support too. Glavine did not have this luxury and in fact had poor run support late in his career on some of the Mets teams. So considering the obstacles Glavine had to overcome to reach 300 relative to someone like Clemens, this is an absolutely tremendous accomplishment.
Also, bringing up Steve Trachsel is not a very valid argument against the wins statistic used over the course of a career. Last year was only 1 year in which his win totals were higher than what they should be considering his peripherals. There were some years with the Mets in which he got lousy run support and should have had more wins. So this tends to even out from year to year.
As for 500 HRs, that in itself is a great accomplishment but it’s not as monumental as 300 wins. Especially when you consider 160 of them came when A-Rod played at a true launching pad—Arlington’s ballpark, historically one of the top HR parks in the majors year after year. The newer ballparks have also generally tended to be hitters parks which have given an advantage to HR hitters. I think there will be other 500 HR hitters down the road. But Glavine may be the last 300-game winner the game will see for at least another 50 years or more.
For all these reasons you have to give the nod to Glavine’s 300 wins. Sadly, Bonds’ milestone would be the most impressive among the three, but his use of performance enhancing substances has tainted it badly.
I agree with JK. Let me add a few thoughts to his. A large number of todays newer ballparks are bandboxes, and add to that the fact that todays pitching is sooo watered down. With todays training methods, trainers, nutrition and that fact that most players train year round since they don’t have to hold down off season jobs to survive (Remember Richie Hebner the grave digger?) 500 home runs are no longer a bench mark…600 should now be the standard for automatic (if you will) HOF consideration.
300 wins, however, remains the bigger accomplishment. How many starts with a 5 man rotation does it take to accumulate 300 wins? Add in no decisions, pulled before 5 innings, or not having your stuff. Now think about the number of pitches that must be thrown and the physical degredation of the shoulder that throws the ball, an unnatural torquing of that joint. PLUS the bandbox parks, bigger, stronger hitters, specialty relievers….any further is overkill.
just my opinion…
regardless of what is a bigger accomplishment, I don’t think that Mets fans really care that much about Glavine’s 300 wins as much as Yankee fans care about Arod’s 500th HR. Because most of the 300 wins were for the hated nemesis the Atlanta Braves, not to mention all those wins that were “against” the Mets. As for the Yankees fans, Arod is still in his prime, and can still go in to the Hall of fame as a Yankee (especially if he stays a Yankee for a long tome to come).
To Dan # 1
Mussina did NOT spend a career on the Yankees. The prime of his career was spent in Baltimore. If he had been on the late 90’s Yankees teams, he’d probably be a lot closer to 300 himself.
Jake go back to the crap board. If you think 300 wins isn’t a major milestone you are an ahole and belong with your pinstiped friends.
Speak for yourself Abe. You are obviously a Yankee fan here to show your lack of brain power. Tommy’s been here long enough and was a warrior for us in the playoffs
I guess you didn’t think much of Cone’s or Docs’ no hitter because theyspent their prime on the right team. And if you all love A Rod so much why you boo him all the time. I can’t wait to see him playing 3rd in Fenway next year!!!!!!!
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