This much is for sure, most of you guys don’t like Jose Valentin batting second. If not there, then where? They scored a whole pile of runs last year with Paul Lo Duca hitting second.
You’re manager for the day … from 1-8, let’s have your batting order.
30 Comments
This team is going to sink or swim with the Carlos’s…
Once Alou comes back, I would do the following: Reyes, Beltran, Wright, Delgado, Alou, Green, LoDuca, Gotay/Valentin, P
until then, I would keep Milledge hitting second, with the 2B down in the order.
First, great win – and it was great being with a colony of other Mets fans down the third base line at Petco.
Here’s my lineup w/out Alou:
Reyes ss
Beltran cf
Wright 3b
Delgado 1b
LoDuca c
Green rf
Milledge lf
Gotay 2b
Here’s my lineup w/Alou:
Reyes ss
LoDuca c
Wright 3b
Delgado 1b
Beltran cf
Alou lf
Gotay 2b
Green rf
Bench: LH – Valentin, Anderson
RH: Castro, Easley, Alomar, Milledge
(I would carry 11 pitchers)
Reyes
Milledge / Alou
Beltran
Wright
Green
Delgado
Gotay (until he goes cold) / Valentin
LoDuca (with a lot of Castro mixed in)
When Alou is back
Reyes
Gotay
Beltran
Wright
Delgado
Alou/Green
LoDuca/Castro
Milledge/Chavez (if/when Endy returns)
I don’t think it is fair to the starters who have carried the team to have both Alou and Green in the field at the same time.
Reyes
LoDuca
Beltran
Wright
Green/Alou
Easley/Gotay
Delgado
Milledge/Chavez
Once Alou is back
Reyes
Gotay
Beltran
Delgado
Wright
Alou
PLD
Green
When Milledge Plays
Reyes
Milledge/Gotay
Beltran
Delgado
Wright
Alou/Green
PLD
Gotay/Milledge
Just like John said, last year we scored a TON more runs with Paulie in the 2 hole…just think about our lineup the first month of THIS season.
Reyes
Lo Duca
Beltran
Delgado
Wright
Alou
Green
Valentin
Willis
Castro plays day games after night games
NO more Milledge as Omar will be trading him to the Fish
aside from the Milledge part, I’m with Ilan. LoDucs in the 2hole and Valentin 8 (with Gotay splitting time with him as well). Alou bats 6th and when he sits, Milledge takes over and everyone shifts up with Milledge batting 8th. His pitch selection is simply not good enough yet to put him in the 2 hole.
This is the lineup that worked pretty much all of last year and this april.
I don’t care where Valentin bats as long as it’s not for the Mets. The dude is back to 2005 form.
Ok, ok. I’ll play. This is the lineup the Mets should put out there.
Reyes
Wright
Beltran
Alou
Delgado
Milledge
Dookie
Gotay
Reyes SS
Beltran CF
Wright 3B
Delgado 1B
Alou LF
Green RF
Lo Duca C
Gotay 2B
That way you have SW, SW, R, L, R, L, R, L.
Plus the speed is at the top.
Plus Paulie’s terrible offensive contribution is at the bottom. I’d have batted him 8th if it wasn’t for the lefty-righty balance.
Without Alou
Reyes
Gotay
Beltran
Wright
Delgado
Milledge
Green
Dookie
Reyes
Beltran
Wright
Delgado
Green
Milledge
Lo Duca
Gotay
when Alou returns hits fifth and the platoon of Milledge/Green hit sixth. Gotay would be full time until he slumped. If Beltran gets above .270 everybody moves down one with Gotay in the two hole. Steady fastballs with Reyes on first will get anybody out of a slump, worked for Wright.
John,
off subj. seems to be alot of negitive about Downs now that he’s gone. Was that the feeling in the locker room. it was mentioned on the radio that not one player got him fired but there was grumbling and mgt. was happy with the approach. Then on TV last night they kept talking about hojo getting them back to going deep into counts which had been the teams philosophy, which without saying means they think Downs got away from it. I hated the approach and had been beating the Downs drum since mid june but i never heard one word about Downs or the approach. Just curious is down the escape goat for the slump or was this clubhouse feeling that he was getting off message which was compounding things, by trying to get the guys over aggressive….
Garrett
Millan
Staub
Jones
Milner
Hahn/Schneck/Mays
Grote
Harrelson
Lineup w/out Alou
1. Reyes
2. LoDuca
3. Beltran
4. Wright
5. Delgado
6. Milledge
7. Green
8. Gotay/Valentin
Lineup w/Alou
1. Reyes
2. Beltran
3. Wright
4. Delgado
5. Alou
6. Green/L. Millz
7. LoDuca
8. Gotay/Valentin
Where do I want ValentÃÂn? Not starting for the Mets, that’s where! Especially not against left-handers (unless he’s batting left-handed: see his one PA last year in that situation).
Reyes
Wright
Beltrán
Alou
Delgado
Milledge
Castro
Gotay
bench: Green, Lo Duca, Easley, Chávez, ValentÃÂn/Newhan/someone
+5 starters & 7 relievers
it’s so easy
Honestly, Delcos, your blog is good for information and frequent updates. But when you give your opinions… I don’t know where you learned about causal priority (re: Lo Duca last year hitting second), but you need to relearn your logical concepts.
Batting Orders for the most part dont matter as long as u have your bad hitters at the bottom and best hitters towards the top.
Having said that I would go
1) Reyes
2) Beltran
3) Wright
4) Delgado
5) Alou
6) Green
7) Lo Duca
8) Valentin
9) Pitcher
Running it through the program I got based on OBP and SLG this should be the order
1) Reyes
2) Wright
3) Green
4) Beltran
5) Alou
6) Delgado
7) Valentin
8) Pitcher
9) Lo Duca
That lineup would score about 4.663 runs a game or 755 runs a season compared to the 4.47 pace we are going at right now (725 runs)
Obviously this would change if players were producing at their career levels (ie delgado would move up).
John S, I agree with you it doesn’t matter much. Isn’t this just a rehash of the ‘should Wright bat 2nd?’ question? That 30 run difference could be worth a few games though.
John just because the Mets scored a lot of runs last year with LoDuca batting 2nd doesn’t mean they scored a lot of runs because LoDuca batted 2nd and it doesn’t mean they wouldn’t have scored more runs with Wright 2nd and LoDuca batting down in the order. They scored more runs last year because several guys were having much better years than they are this year. Delgado and Beltran especially but also LoDuca and Valentin. You could of course make the argument that LoDuca is not doing as well because he hasn’t been batting 2nd as often but that is very unconvincing to me. Why should where he bats in the order make such a difference in his batting average? RBI and Runs yes because you have to have runners on to get RBI and you have to be driven in to score but it shouldn’t affect his BA. He just isn’t having as good a year this year as he did last year.
Having said all that here is my batting order :
1. Reyes (finally has the high OBP that a leadoff hitter should)
2. Wright (2nd spot still needs high OBP, he has it)
3. Beltran (hoping for a return to form, high OBP and SLG)—You could swap Beltran and Wright, they are very similar
4. Delgado (hoping he hits like we hope he still can)
5. Alou
6. Valentin/Gotay
7. Green
8. LoDuca
9. pitcher
The 30 run difference would probably amount to 3 win difference. But I dont really believe we will stay at 4.47….i think that raises quite a bit in the second half regardless of order….whether its because milledge and gotay play more, or maybe loduca and the carlos’s perform better….somethings gonna happen.
Lo Duca’s BA could be affected by his position in the batting order if he’s seeing different pitches lower in the order. For example, in the number-two hole, he’d likely see a lot of fastballs with Reyes on base and with pitchers not wanting to walk him in front of Beltran, Wright and Delgado. Lower in the order, however, he’s more likely to be seeing slop.
Benny,
You are right of course.
Sans Alou:
Reyes
Gotay
Beltran
Wright
Delgado
Milledge
Green
LoDuca
(pitcher)
Avec Alou:
Reyes
Gotay
Beltran
Wright
Delgado
Alou
Milledge
LoDuca
(pitcher)
...the once or twice Castro plays a week, I keep Castro in Paul’s spot.
If you have the line-up with Alou and Easley is back from his family emergency, you shove Valentin on the 60-Day DL and run with a bench of:
Green, Castro, Easley, Ambres, Alomar
When Endy comes back, you send Ambres back down.
If Anderson proves himself MLB worthy, Alomar goes down.
If Anderson is a bust, you go to Hillenbrand’s people and see if he’s been humbled by no one wanting him and if he could deal with being Delgado’s back-up for the last third of the season.
Valentin’s the walking wounded, Newhan doesn’t belong on a major league roster, time to start cutting bait.
Beltran and Delgado and LoDuca all clearly need more rest days… happily, Milledge is a natural centrefielder and so it becomes easier to rest Beltran, Castro is hitting well in a limited capacity so you can afford to rest LoDuca a bit more and…
Easley or Green can play first base defense each at least a half-step better than Delgado can, to begin with. LoDuca might be worth sticking there if his bat gets hot but his knees need the rest.
If Gotay cooled off and simultaneously Delgado and Beltran both found themselves:
Reyes
Beltran
Wright
Delgado
Alou
Milledge
Gotay
LoDuca
(pitcher)
Last year was a fluke with LoDuca, he’s not Piazza, guys.
He’s a .270-.280 banjo hitter who doesn’t walk and has no power but calls a great game and plays a great defense except for his arm to second on the steal.
This is not a slight on him, he’s very useful to the team… but to stick him in the middle of the offense is hanging onto hope that one day he’s gonna wake up and not be Paul LoDuca at 35, magically becoming Mike Piazza at 26.
Ain’t happening.
He had some power one year exactly, his first full season where he was kept healthy by starting like 25 games at first or in the outfield. He had a gaudy average exactly one year, last year, when he was so surrounded by offense that he had to get good pitches all the time.
He’s calls a good game and he hits a lot of singles. That’s Paul LoDuca.
For super-special bonus points, I’ll give you the Mets 2008 Opening Day Line-Up that should happen… assuming Delgado’s healthy, Gotay doesn’t tank out and that there’s no catchers worth signing in the off-season so that you give LoDuca a one-year deal and hope for the best:
Reyes
Gotay
Beltran
Wright
Delgado
Milledge
Gomez
LoDuca
pitcher
Endy, Castro, two 2B/SS/3B infielders and a 1B on the bench.
Starting rotation of Pedro, Perez, Maine, El Duque and Pelfrey.
Bullpen… Wagner closing, Sosa long-relieving… Smith, Feliciano, Heilman, Sanchez and Burgos.
Hopefully, you can dump Mota and Rocky Horror Picture Sho’s salaries somewhere else.
If Gotay tanks, you go after a second baseman and use him off the bench.
If you can get someone better than LoDuca as a free agent, grab him.
If Delgado’s too injured to play, you go for a firstbase FA.
If you can get a 2/3 type starting pitcher, you buy him and push back El Duque or Pelfrey.
But if Gotay proves to be an acceptable starter over the course of the rest of this year, you got the bread to buy one or two big names instead of scattershotting the bread.
NO ALOU
1.Reyes
2.Lo Duca
3.Beltran
4.Wright
5.Delgado
6.Green
7.Milledge
8.Gotay
ALOU
1.Reyes
2.Gotay
3.Beltran
4.Wright
5.Delgado
6.Alou
7.Green/Milledge
8. Lo Duca
Though, to be fair, John…
Looking at the poll results, it’s not that we don’t want Valentin in the two-hole.
We… don’t want Valentin starting. He got outvoted by a guy on Bereavement Leave… and he’s barely beating a DFA cast-off who’s playing in AAA.
Gotay’s got a hot bat and Valentin’s playing on one leg.
You have to be quaffing deeply of the Kool-Aid to stick to the Willieball “Defend All Veterans Or Die Trying” talking points and say otherwise.
Even when Gotay’s bat cools off as I’m sure it will to some extent, that doesn’t fix Valentin’s leg.
No matter how much Willie wanted to not have faith in a rookie last year, that wishing and wishing didn’t fix Floyd’s leg… only a long off-season of healing did.
No matter how much Willie doesn’t want to have faith in a player who’s functionally a rookie, that’s not gonna fix Valentin’s leg either.
And no matter how much he didn’t want to give Bell enough of a chance on the big stage to actually get comfortable, it didn’t fix Rocky Horror’s detached ligaments and it didn’t give Mota back whatever it is he lost when he had to give up on the ‘roids.
You can’t know what you’re going to get out of your young players until you give them the ball or give them the glove and say:
“This is yours. You are a major leaguer. If you slump for three games, you’re still a major leaguer. If you slump for twenty games, you’re still a major leaguer. We’re not gonna pick up some washed-up former star in a salary dump and push you aside. You are a major leaguer and you are a Met. Let’s see what you got.”
Jose Valentins and Cliff Floyds and Moises Alouses and Robo Hernandezes and Rickey Ledees (really?) and just this cavalcade of Used-Ta-Bes.
You don’t know what your young guys who can do until you take the hot breath of the washed-up off their backs and let them play.
I’d rather be mediocre with rookies than mediocre with Used-Ta-Bes.
Rookies will most likely get better.
Mike,
re 2008:
Are you saying the Mets don’t want Glavine or he doesn’t want to come back? Also are you discounting Sosa’s year? Right now he is the better pitcher over Pelfrey. You must have faith in a hard throwing big guy who can’t find the plate cause I see you list Amby in there. Also you project Sanchez can actually pitch which may be a stretch.
Other than that it’s not bad altho the OF is rather light in the power dept.
As to the other note. I am not sure you put that kind of faith in young guys who are not projected can’t misses. Even if they are if you want to win you make them play their way to the field.
I agree with you on Alou, but only because he is brittle. Same on Cliffy. But when both are healthy they are better than mediocre.
I think for next year you try and get a decent OF so you can mix in Milledge and Carlos and let them force you to sit the other guys. I like an athletic OF although I am still not sold on Milledge. This year will say a lot about him.
The young guys need time. I agree. But do you give that kind of time to TWO OF’s? Can you afford to do that? I do not think I would be that brave as a GM nor a manager.
Dave
Bravery allowed Reyes and Wright to grow into their positions. That’s how you develop homegrown stars, you PLAY them, no matter what the backpage of the Post says.
A lack of bravery, buying hasbeen after hasbeen and… you become the Yankees. And… the Yankees suck.
As for Glavine… unless he somehow doesn’t get 300 this year, I think he’s retiring. I don’t think he digs playing in the small-strikezone-era enough to hang around just to hang around.