Two series against the Braves. The Mets lose two of three in both. in three of the four games the Mets let the game slip away because of their bullpen. When you have the Braves on the ropes you must put them away.
For 14 years, the Braves knew they could beat the Mets when it mattered. You have to believe they have that feeling again.
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For me, this comes down to Willie’s bonehead decision to bring in Schoenweiss after Green’s two base error (I don’t care what the official scorer called it). With two outs and a three run lead, there’s just no reason. He overplayed his hand, and it clearly bit back.
That was horrendous. The Braves haven’t looked that giddy since the Braden Looper game in Atlanta in September of 05.
And while the decision to bring in Schoeneweis (who cannot throw a strike) was bad, leaving him in for Renteria was even worse.
“For 14 years, the Braves knew they could beat the Mets when it mattered. You have to believe they have that feeling again.”
If they didn’t before today, they certainly do now. Again, I call your attention to just how giddy the young guys like Francouer looked after the Renteria homer.
I think what’s just about as bad as that is the fact that the Mets basically thought they had won the game (a la NLCS game 2 last year), and when the Braves showed life, the Mets had absolutely no response. I know it’s April, but you’d think that playing the whole nine innings is a lesson the NLCS would have taught this team already.
...I’ve seen enough of Shawn Green, if he doesn’t muff an easy out, theres no need for Schoeneweis…mark my words, it won’t be the last game he throws away with his shoddy D….
Thinking about it though, I’m not sure the Braves are necessarily in the Mets’ heads, though that’s probably what the Braves themselves think. I can’t imagine a guy like Lo Duca thinks the Braves have some sort of intangible (even mystical) edge just because Scott Schoeneweis whizzed the game down his leg today.
It’s a long season, and the team that wins these games in April has not always been the team that wins them later on in the year. Specifically, I remember the Mets having pretty good April success against the Braves from 1998-2005 or so (when the Braves pretty much were in the Mets’ heads and would prove it by the end of each season).
We’ll see what happens. Mets just have to move on, start beating up on the likes of the Rockies and Nats, hope the Braves lose a couple (though today’s game is the type that could propel them to a 10-game winning streak) and get this taste out of their mouths.
“Thinking about it though, I’m not sure the Braves are necessarily in the Mets’ heads, though that’s probably what the Braves themselves think.”
I agree with that statement 100%. Well said. There is no way I believe that Moises Alou and Carlos Beltran and the rest of the crew are thinking that right now.
This was a very tough loss. I think what made it tougher was that a) it was against the Braves b) they had already mounted a nice comeback and c) except for the NLCS, the Mets didn’t have many tough losses last year. I think all of the smooth sailing in 2006 might have spoiled us a little bit. I think we are going to have to get used to the fact that this year will be a fight and that there are going to be ups and downs.
I’m looking forward to tomorrow’s game so that we can get a win and get this bad taste out of my mouth!
it was a poor decision/move by willie on his part in taking out burgos. although i didn’t see the game live on television or anything, i was keeping track on mlb gameday. it seemed like burgos was pounding the strikezone before he allowed a double. then willie took him out of the 7th. there was nothing wrong with burgos and allowing the double to score would have been better than shoenweiss to give up the 3run bomb. this would then be a totally different game.
wright is pressing. i dont think he got his work in during spring training…and if he did his mind wasn’t there. i think we have his little girlfriend to thank for that…just kidding…but possible
why didnt he put in andy chavez for green! At least hes keeping his hat on this year and hitting better but his fielding stinks!
I’m waiting to see something out of Schoenweiss that will tell me why Omar signed him for three years. So far, I’m not seeing it. He doesn’t look to have great stuff, and he looks like he nibbles and falls behind a lot.
Willie’s bullpen management today was pretty questionable (and that’s being kind.)
As to Green in RF, as well as with Alou in left, it’s no secret that one of the (few) weaknesses that this team is going to have is corner outfield defense. Green has been a net positive by far, and he’s showing that reports of his demise as a hitter may well have been grossly premature. But he’s gonna give some back, too.
For the record, if this ends up being our biggest weakness this season, and Alou and Green continue to hit, we’ll be in pretty good shape.
The way I see it, Endy Chavez should be in the OF, in one corner spot or the other, for the 8th and 9th inning of just about every game we’re leading in. It’s not like the guy’s a liability at the plate if it comes to it either. “Eighth Inning Endy” ought to be Willie’s version of Red Aurbach’s victory cigar.
Frustrating day. Here’s hoping that the combination of John “no-hit” Maine and the Colorado Rockies (with a fill-in starter) get us right back on track tomorrow.
I just needed to share this:
I live outside of Philadelphia. My husband went to pick up McDonalds for dinner. When he came home and emptied the change out of his pockets he found a commemorative Keith Hernandez quarter from last year’s Dunkin’ Donuts 1986 tribute.
How funny is that? I think it’s some sort of a sign…
I hate the braves. we always have issues against them.
Hi John –
Maybe Bobby Cox thinks he can beat the Mets anytime he wants to, but I’m sure Willie thinks the reverse.
Here’s my wish for all the managers – please, please leave these pitchers in the game. Tell them you will not take them out until the game is over unless they are injured during the game.
Let El Duque explain how this works.
The Braves shuffled their pitching rotation so their top 3 would go against us this weekend, whereas the Mets went with #’s 4, 5, and 1. If we had lost to Mark Redman Friday night it would be a lot more worrisome…
Willie’s decisions yesterday defied all logic.
Why would he lift Burgos after he got two easy outs on five pitchs – and should’ve easily had the third, if not for Green’s misplay? And even if he brought in a lefty, wouldn’t logic dictate that it be Feliciano, who didn’t pitch on Saturday?
And why the hell would he let Schoenweis stay in to face Renteria, representing the tying run, AFTER he walked Kelly Johnson??!! Where was Joe Smith to face Renteria??!! Wouldn’t you want a ground ball pitcher in, to minimize the chances of a game-tying HR?
And something is CLEARLY wrong with Aaron Heilman. That elbow appears much worse than anything we’ve been told. This is NOT the Aaron Heilman we’re used to seeing.
And I’m also wondering…Have we all too quickly anointed David Wright as the next great thing? Look at last year’s stats…Miguel Cabrera and Garrett Atkins actually put up better numbers. Is Wright catching Edgardo Alfonzo syndrome – two monster years, then a steep decline?
He hasn’t been Wright (pun intended) since that damn Home Run Derby.
Perhaps Willie needs to rethink his use of Green. I realize he is hitting above 300 and has had a few out of the park. So you start him while he is hot, but unless the game is out of hand when the 7th roles in so should Endy.
Green has lost or contributed to the loss of more than one game already because of judgement/physical plays in the field.
Endy is the best fielding OF we have and perhaps in the game. There really is no decision on this is there?
Dave
Aaron heilman is notorious for having terrible first halves…if you look back the past 2 seasons…he always starts out slow…and then he heats up towards and after the all star break. past couple of seasons he’s been an ace reliever in the 2nd half. I’m not worried about heilman…i’m more definately more worried about wright’s slump…i really dont think pitchers are adjusting to him better…but moreso that the media is getting to him…i’m going to stand by that fact…
John,
I guess were on the same page, I posted below just after the game. worst decision of the game was bringing in Schoe whos struggled all year and then leaving him in….
This was an awful loss because it was reminiscent of “98” or “02” when no matter what, the Braves won. Regardless of whether it’s April or not, there’s not one, true, long term Mets fan who doesn’t have that gut wrenching feeling that the Braves are back.
Of the four games we’ve already lost to the Braves this year, only one of them was a solid win, that we didn’t give away or have a chance to win ourseleves and that was Friday night (Pelfrey/Hudson game).
Today’s game was the worst loss yet; the defense fell apart, the pen was awful and Willie made the worst decision of the game. From a morale point of view, when your team comes back by scoring five runs on a hall of fame pitcher, that plays for your arch rival you don’t leave a pitcher out there to see what he’s got.
I don’t see why everyone is getting on Green so much. He made a mistake with two outs and no one on. It shouldn’t have led to three runs. Green has hit well all season and hasn’t been bad in the OF. And the top of the 7th is too early for a defensive replacement in a three run game. Schoeneweis (and Willie’s faith in him) lost them the game. That contract isn’t looking too good right now.
Kevin,
I disagree with you regarding Green. I have seen too many plays in this short season where his misplay in the field has resulted in points for the other side.
It seems as though with all his years as a pro he does not know what to do in certain situations. For example once he has the ball in hand which base to throw to. Physically and mentally he is a below average fielder.
If you are up or close in the late stages I think it better to bring in Endy. His defence will make more impact than a possible extra base hit. Taking away hits and making outs in the field has more impact late than a 1 in 3 shot at making meaningful contact. Besides there are other impact bats in the lineup and Endy is still a good hitter.
Dave
Dave, I recall one other misplay from Green so far this season. I’m not saying he’s a gold glover, but as long as he hits, he should be in the lineup everyday. He’s still average as an OF. What if Alou or Beltran had made the misplay? Alou had an awful defensive game Saturday, but nothing came of it. As for Endy, he’s not a regular, and defensive replacements usually come in from the eighth inning on.
You guys kill Milledge. Now you kill Green. In both cases, you overreact and, as much as everyone loves fans who whine about anything and everything, especially when your team is clearly the dominant one in the NL and off to an 11-6 start, you sound a ton like fans without a lot of knowledge of the game but very strong opinions. Kinda like a lot of the fans who root for that other NY team.
It would be nice if the outburst of talent on the field at Shea were coupled with an outburst of knowledge and, well, joy in the stands. This team is really special and all of you crying about a tough loss are missing the forest for the trees.
Just an observation…
The Mets and Braves both have 6 losses after only 3 weeks of baseball.
The Mets have a 47+ run differential, the Bravos +7.
The Mets currently have 2 critical players struggling something awful, the Braves have 1.
The Braves are not getting Hampton back this year, the Mets are seemingly getting back Pedro in August.
The Braves have major offensive question marks at 1B and LF, the Mets don’t have a question mark anymore.
The Braves’ most injury prone position player is essentially irreplaceable at 3B; the Mets’ most injury prone position player at LF has a number of exciting replacements behind him in Endy, Milledge, maybe Ben Johnson, maybe Gomez.
The list go on and on and the Mets have advantages at almost every turn. If Tim Hudson wins a Cy Young, well, I don’t think we can match that, but I don’t really see that happening…
Endy is no where near the hitter Green is.
I like Endy, but the 7th inning is not the time to bring him in. If you do, and you need an extra base hit late in the game, who is more apt to do that, Green or Chavez?
Of course, what will happen is Willie will do this change at some point, and Endy will not get the job done at the plate, and people will question why he replaced Green.
I wonder, if Beltran had made a similar misplay, would we be calling for him to be pulled?
Yes, Green made an awful play, but the fact is, the bullpen cost the game. Show gave up the home run, after walking a lefty. Heilman gave up another homer. Or was that Green’s fault as well?
In this case if Green has one more at bat in the game you are up 3 and he is a liability in the field and you have one of the best defensive OF in the game on the bench ( who by the way is hitting 300 ) you are telling me you would rather have him in the field when you are trying to close the game than a spectacular defensive player?
Oh yeah. you catch that ball you end the inning and the runs don’t score.
Endy’s role on this team is supersub and defensive replacement par excellance. He should have been in the game. He is by the way the best defensive OF we have. I would also sub him for Alou but I don’t think he is as bad a fielder as Green.
That said I am ok with Green starting, his bat is hot right now, but he shouldnt finish a game that can turn.
Dave